fiery_valkyrie posted:

I saw it in Peru, particularly around Cusco and Ollantaytambo.

hooman posted:

Advancements in technology improve people's lives.
Advancements in technology have improved Aboriginal people's lives.
There are ways that Aboriginal people could have been given/traded etc. the advanced technology to improve their lives without colonialism.
There is no justification for colonialism.

The problem with saying "The Aboriginals are better off than they would have been without colonialism" is that you're attaching together Colonialism and trade in technology which are in fact two completely separate things, the invasion of Australia and the transfer of technology between civilisations. You can trade technology without invading and exploiting and slaughtering the people you are trading with. Colonialism itself was bad for Aboriginals.

Anidav posted:

This government keeps loving up at breakneck speed. Questions how competent they will be on the campaign trail.

katlington posted:

The frequency with which theyre throwing up and then discarding obviously horrible tax ideas does not fill me with confidence. To be blunt, theyre idiots, they have noidea what to do and we're all hosed

katlington posted:

From the brain of scott morrison

!DO NOT STEAL!

Tax idea #8; threaten children somehow?

turdbucket posted:

They most certainly did have agriculture, it was widespread as well. There's a good map of the "grain belt" used for farming pre-invasion and it covers a massive area across the continent. I'm not saying we should idolise pre-industrialisation life but people really don't give them enough credit for cultivating this harsh dry dusty continent. There's evidence of farming in pretty much all indigenous societies as well as large settlements but these were mostly all destroyed by the British. Far from a perfect life but their land management practices and agricultural techniques were actually pretty incredible when you compare to how quickly the imported European agricultural work has annihilated the soil and ecosystem of this country. Getting as much food as they did out of such a harsh environment is something that should be praised, not forgotten or dismissed like we do to every part of indigenous culture.

It's only in the last 80 years that life has really improved to be honest, I'm pretty sure most people would take 4 hours of work just to provide comfortably for your family and friends while spending the majority of your time in leisure and freedom in a clean, healthy environment over being locked in a coal mine or factory for 16 hours a day before sleeping in a small room with 4 other families. It's a dumb misconception that people pre-industrialisation died in their 30s, if you made it past childhood you'd live a pretty long life. Again not idolising their society but the argument the British somehow brought magical life improvements with them is idiotic.

Zenithe posted:

Sorry, I meant Aussie indigenous nations.

gay picnic defence posted:

Is there a source for this? I know about the aquaculture down Portland way and there were some beginnings of agriculture around what was to become Melbourne but I hadn't heard about the other areas. Unless you're referring to fire stick farming which is a bit of a stretch to consider agriculture and not a sort of managed hunter gatherer system.

Konomex posted:

There was artwork from some of the first Colony's in WA of what the Indigenous settlements looked like, and their art work. As well as journal entries of the land.

It was basically bush/orchards as far as the eye could see where I grew up, trees fairly evenly spaced, like the entire land had been cultivated and was one giant edible garden. They had large scale fishing traps (permanent structures), permanently settled buildings and a form of semi governance and diplomacy with other 'countries'.

It's a stretch to call them uncivilized in any way. They were largely plagued by Western Diseases before the first large waves of colonists arrived.

turdbucket posted:

Yeah even accounts by settlers in Sydney go on and on about how the land is like one big maintained park estate like they knew from England. Land management seems to have been extremely important to indigenous Australians.

turdbucket posted:

Yeah even accounts by settlers in Sydney go on and on about how the land is like one big maintained park estate like they knew from England. Land management seems to have been extremely important to indigenous Australians.

Anidav posted:

This government keeps loving up at breakneck speed. Questions how competent they will be on the campaign trail.

Anidav posted:

The Prime Minister says the states cannot any longer credibly ask the federal government to raise taxes for them if they are not prepared to raise taxes themselves.

The Prime Minister has hit back at the rejection of his income tax plan, painting its defeat as a "moment of clarity" that revealed the states lacked the stomach for reform and must live within their means.

Malcolm Turnbull on Saturday brushed off suggestions that the failure of what he hailed as only days ago as "the most fundamental reform to the federation in generations" marked a major humiliation for his government.

He instead recast the outcome of this week's Council of Australian Governments meeting as showing up the inconsistencies of the states, which had appealed to the federal government to give them the proceeds of increases to the GST and income tax.

"The important thing is that what we have seen is the states making it very clear that they are not prepared to contemplate being responsible for levying a share of income tax," Mr Turnbull said.

"What that means is they cannot any longer credibly ask the federal government to raise taxes for them to spend if they were not prepared to raise those taxes themselves when they were given the opportunity."

The proposal, branded "double taxation" by Opposition leader Bill Shorten, would have seen a reduction of the federal government's income tax collection in favour of allowing the states and territories to collect the remainder to fund services like hospitals and schools.

Leaders instead agreed to consider a counter-proposal that would give states direct access to a fixed percentage of a growing income tax pool, replacing tied and special-purpose grants from the Commonwealth.

Mr Turnbull said the defeat of his government's plan was a "wake up call" for the states, which had made it clear that they did not want to put up taxes and "neither do we".

"So this has been a very important moment of clarity, and what it says to us is that we must live within our means," he said.

Friday's meeting otherwise ended with state and territory leaders accepting an extra $2.9 billion for health and hospital spending to 2020.

Mr Turnbull's comments about the states and territories were echoed in Melbourne by his Health Minister Sussan Ley, who denied the proposal's defeat was an embarrassment.

"They're quick to ask the Commonwealth to do their dirty work," Ms Ley told reporters in Melbourne on Saturday.

"We should never make an apology for having big ideas and the courage to make a difference."

Mr Shorten, who appeared at a shipbuilders' rally in Adelaide on Saturday, branded the unsuccessful tax proposal a "humiliating farce".

"He doesn't even have the courage of his convictions," said Mr Shorten said.

Defence Minister Marise Payne, who appeared alongside Mr Turnbull in Sydney on Saturday following an inspection of the HMAS Canberra, separately lashed out at the opposition's shipbuilding record.

Labor had not placed a single order to build a ship in Australia during six years in government, she said.

"It is hypocritical in the extreme and they should be exposed for the absolute hypocrites that they are," Senator Payne said.

LibertyCat posted:

FWIW: Thankyou. I'm going to read up on this, as I had no idea anything more advanced than fire-stick farming was practiced.

Anidav posted:

The Prime Minister says the states cannot any longer credibly ask the federal government to raise taxes for them if they are not prepared to raise taxes themselves.

The Prime Minister has hit back at the rejection of his income tax plan, painting its defeat as a "moment of clarity" that revealed the states lacked the stomach for reform and must live within their means.

Malcolm Turnbull on Saturday brushed off suggestions that the failure of what he hailed as only days ago as "the most fundamental reform to the federation in generations" marked a major humiliation for his government.

He instead recast the outcome of this week's Council of Australian Governments meeting as showing up the inconsistencies of the states, which had appealed to the federal government to give them the proceeds of increases to the GST and income tax.

"The important thing is that what we have seen is the states making it very clear that they are not prepared to contemplate being responsible for levying a share of income tax," Mr Turnbull said.

"What that means is they cannot any longer credibly ask the federal government to raise taxes for them to spend if they were not prepared to raise those taxes themselves when they were given the opportunity."

The proposal, branded "double taxation" by Opposition leader Bill Shorten, would have seen a reduction of the federal government's income tax collection in favour of allowing the states and territories to collect the remainder to fund services like hospitals and schools.

Leaders instead agreed to consider a counter-proposal that would give states direct access to a fixed percentage of a growing income tax pool, replacing tied and special-purpose grants from the Commonwealth.

Mr Turnbull said the defeat of his government's plan was a "wake up call" for the states, which had made it clear that they did not want to put up taxes and "neither do we".

"So this has been a very important moment of clarity, and what it says to us is that we must live within our means," he said.

Friday's meeting otherwise ended with state and territory leaders accepting an extra $2.9 billion for health and hospital spending to 2020.

Mr Turnbull's comments about the states and territories were echoed in Melbourne by his Health Minister Sussan Ley, who denied the proposal's defeat was an embarrassment.

"They're quick to ask the Commonwealth to do their dirty work," Ms Ley told reporters in Melbourne on Saturday.

"We should never make an apology for having big ideas and the courage to make a difference."

Mr Shorten, who appeared at a shipbuilders' rally in Adelaide on Saturday, branded the unsuccessful tax proposal a "humiliating farce".

"He doesn't even have the courage of his convictions," said Mr Shorten said.

Defence Minister Marise Payne, who appeared alongside Mr Turnbull in Sydney on Saturday following an inspection of the HMAS Canberra, separately lashed out at the opposition's shipbuilding record.

Labor had not placed a single order to build a ship in Australia during six years in government, she said.

"It is hypocritical in the extreme and they should be exposed for the absolute hypocrites that they are," Senator Payne said.

Jumpingmanjim posted:

So he was only pretending to be retarded?

Endman posted:

Because why have a Federal Government at all, am I right?

SeekOtherCandidate posted:

why indeed. henry parkes was wrong all along.

turdbucket posted:

Sorry for the double post but I haven't seen this issue mentioned in this thread.

On the topic on pre-invasion Indigenous culture they recently found a massive archaeological site in Sydney while working on the new light rail line. I don't know what is going on with it currently but Baird seemed pretty keen to keep bulldozing, we are already missing so much information about pre-settlement Australia and then finds like this are treated merely as a problem and with no interest of respect at all.

http://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/2016/04/01/huge-indigenous-artefacts-find-sydney-why-it-so-significant

Jumpingmanjim posted:

NSW Police raided the home of former Prime Minister Tony Abbott this evening:


https://www.facebook.com/nswpoliceforce/videos/10153703751401185/

BBJoey posted:

Turnbull will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory if it kills him.

Jumpingmanjim posted:

NSW Police raided the home of former Prime Minister Tony Abbott this evening:


https://www.facebook.com/nswpoliceforce/videos/10153703751401185/

Jumpingmanjim posted:

NSW Police raided the home of former Prime Minister Tony Abbott this evening:


https://www.facebook.com/nswpoliceforce/videos/10153703751401185/

MGTOW forum posted:

as stated in the title, 48000+ supporters on the facebook page, is it time time for secession?
i think that is quite enough people to actively claim and defend a piece of arable dirt somewhere in Australia without getting arrested/the army being called in.
it would be a international debacle if the govt tried that.
we could lead our own life, make our own egalitarian laws, and invite others to join us, overthrowing feminism by the mechanism of political freedom of choice.

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