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So would Necrons be unfun most likely as in simply blatantly OP, with the pretense "Oh they're like that because they're an ancient threat, its cool"?
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Apr 2, 2016 21:45
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The big ending to the Gothic war was some Admiral driving his battleship into a laser meant to cause a sun to go supernova thus foiling Abaddon's nefarious (possibly suicidal) scheme. Wonder if you get to be that Admiral.
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Apr 2, 2016 21:51
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What about the shabby/trap options like decreasing the chance to get "lost in warp"? I don't know if they're faithful to the boardgame or what, but it will never be worth foregoing an actual in-game upgrade for something like that.
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Apr 2, 2016 21:54
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The Navigator crew skill also increases your warp-out speed.
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Apr 2, 2016 22:00
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Dandywalken posted:So would Necrons be unfun most likely as in simply blatantly OP, with the pretense "Oh they're like that because they're an ancient threat, its cool"? Ok here's the deal with Necrons: Their battery equivalent doesn't care about Eldar defenses (has to be changed for BFGA), and can divide or concentrate it's firepower over it's arcs (this would actually make for really cool gameplay), and also is more accurate. Their lances can go through shields sometimes. They can trigger a non-friendly fire AoE burst that wipes out strikecraft, does a bit of damage and ignores eldar defenses. Their lightning strikes have more assault actions and go farther. Their biggest ship mounts what's basically the slaneesh favor active - an immediate leadership test on a single target. Now we got the bullshit: They have their own critical hit table, that is far less severe that the standard or eldar ones. The special thing about them is that most permanently reduce their leadership (think getting an ever increasing chance to insubordinate every 10% hitpoints lost and an extra chance on top of that on some crits). Also they have the BFGA equivalent of 75% armor on all sides, they ignore most terrain, get an extra chance to ignore damage that gets through the armor (think 75% armor with 20% armor on top of it). They repair crits faster, their armor hardens extra well when they use brace for impact (basically they have Brace for Impact 2: Brace Harder) Instead of All Ahead Full they have micro warp jump (Inertia-less Drives, now retconned away I think) And the unsatisfying Necronness that'll probably make them no fun: Necrons can disengage at any point and they want to because: A completely undamaged capital ship counts as 10% destroyed, any disengaged escort and any damaged capital ship counts as 25% destroyed, any crippled cap ship is 50%, any fully destroyed cap ship is worth 200% for your enemy and any destroyed cap ship with an intact wreck is worth 300%. But - there's no incentive to the Necron player to play fluffy and not fight to the death. If they'd be put in unchanged being matched against Necrons would basically amount to a guaranteed loss, in which you make tons of renown if you manage to kill something. I'd totally be up for fighting against overwhelming odds to make the victory as phyrric as possible for the other player but I doubt many other people would be. DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Apr 2, 2016 |
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Apr 2, 2016 22:24
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xthetenth posted:Hoping so hard for Wargame: Epic 40k.  That would be amazing, like an up-to-date Final Liberation. I would waste my life playing that game.
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Apr 2, 2016 22:46
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Tindahbawx posted:
The rumours floating around Dawn of War 3 (before THQ's collapse threw everything in the air) was that having gone 'small' for DOW2 they were going to reverse direction and go really big in terms of scope. Now Relic still have access to the GW license through SEGA, but they've been a black box on DOW ever since.
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Apr 2, 2016 22:58
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DatonKallandor posted:I'd totally be up for fighting against overwhelming odds to make the victory as phyrric as possible for the other player but I doubt many other people would be.
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Apr 2, 2016 23:04
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DatonKallandor posted:Ok here's the deal with Necrons: Someone brought up to me how much GW is currently pushing necrons with their new fluff and armies so it would make sense if they put in necrons. The question is do they put in the old rectconned necrons or will GW make a new BFG necron ruleset?
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Apr 2, 2016 23:05
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Why would GW be involved at all? The devs like using tabletop as a guideline but they should't have it limit what they can do when it comes to making a good game, and I really hope they'd agree with this.
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Apr 2, 2016 23:06
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Elukka posted:Why would GW be involved at all? The devs like using tabletop as a guideline but they should't have it limit what they can do when it comes to making a good game, and I really hope they'd agree with this. GW are religious about maintaining oversight over how their IP is used. Part of the reason so many lovely Warhammer games have been made is that GW only offer out the license with the string that they have a creative veto. (At least historically, recently they seem to have been willing to let up on that a bit)
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Apr 2, 2016 23:19
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Part of the reason so many lovely warhammer 40k games came out recently is that after the THQ collapse, GW stopped doing the intense oversight. They basically started handing out the license to every mobile dev or shovelware bedroom developer who asked. Before that it was exclusive "you guys get to make 40k games, and we get to veto" with THQ - which worked fantastically (all the way from DoW to Space Marine).
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Apr 2, 2016 23:22
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Elukka posted:Why would GW be involved at all? The devs like using tabletop as a guideline but they should't have it limit what they can do when it comes to making a good game, and I really hope they'd agree with this. I think back when DoW2 was made, GW actually sent a guy over to make sure everything was more or less in line with the existing fluff. Though I dunno whether they'd bother for this relatively smaller project, particularly since the devs themselves are such avowed 40k nerds. The main thing is that the Necron fleet in BFG is based on the original iteration of Necrons as mostly faceless not-terminators flying around and abducting people for unkown reasons. Since then they've undergone a pretty dramatic change, giving individual necrons more distinct personalities as well as going whole hog on the egyptian aesthetic. If they were to try to re-imagine the Necron fleet based on that new version, there'd probably have to be a lot of back-and-forth between them and GW, because GW is nothing if not anal.
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Apr 2, 2016 23:34
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Just how the gently caress are you to counter a chaos data recovery/assin when your orks? The chaos ships go faster then every single ship with speed upgrades as default. They need to restrict mission based on faction--chaos/eldar should not be data recovery defenders.
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Apr 3, 2016 01:26
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Arghy posted:Just how the gently caress are you to counter a chaos data recovery/assin when your orks? The chaos ships go faster then every single ship with speed upgrades as default. :smugtzeetch:
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Apr 3, 2016 01:36
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DatonKallandor posted:But - there's no incentive to the Necron player to play fluffy and not fight to the death. If they'd be put in unchanged being matched against Necrons would basically amount to a guaranteed loss, in which you make tons of renown if you manage to kill something. I'd totally be up for fighting against overwhelming odds to make the victory as phyrric as possible for the other player but I doubt many other people would be. The problem with Necrons on the TT is that while their rules really were fluffy as hell, it just never ended up feeling like a struggle against overwhelming odds so much as a boring slaughter. You couldn't outmaneuver them, you couldn't outfight them, so you mostly just waited until the Necron player hosed up and allowed you to put a significant number of dice on one of their ships. Meanwhile, the Necron player could pretty much dance all over the board and leave you with very little actual agency in the game. I only played BFG with a few friends, and we sold our Necron models after a couple of games because everyone agreed they sucked so much to play as or against. That said, I think Tindalos could probably do an alright job with them, but not without a lot of special rules that would be too much work for a faction DLC. You'd basically have to find ways to force the Necron player to do more than just mercilessly destroy their opponent's ships, and also penalize the Necron player a lot harder for taking damage/losses rather than disengaging. Personally, I'd rather they just release any other faction or even a variant faction like Craftworld Eldar, AdMech, or Voss-pattern IN. Arghy posted:Just how the gently caress are you to counter a chaos data recovery/assin when your orks? You literally don't. Like I said a bit upthread, I've never lost a data recovery/assassination mission as defender using my Tzeentch Hellbringer. That ship has something like 35 games under its belt now without ever being destroyed. The ship itself isn't in any way overpowered in missions where it has to, you know, do stuff, but if all I have to do is run away? Nah.
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Apr 3, 2016 01:52
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They could balance it by making Necrons very expensive in points. For non-necrons every necron fight should be like the Borg Cube fights in Star Trek. The Necrons would typically have a small fleet or even just one vessel in smaller matches against a full-sized enemy fleet.
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Apr 3, 2016 02:49
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I kind of hope they add 5v5 with really low, around 300, point levels. It could be all kinds of fun.
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Apr 3, 2016 02:59
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Can't say I'm enjoying the death spiral mechanic. Losing my flagship just makes me want to put the game down.
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Apr 3, 2016 03:31
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Paradoxish posted:The problem with Necrons on the TT is that while their rules really were fluffy as hell, it just never ended up feeling like a struggle against overwhelming odds so much as a boring slaughter. You couldn't outmaneuver them, you couldn't outfight them, so you mostly just waited until the Necron player hosed up and allowed you to put a significant number of dice on one of their ships. Meanwhile, the Necron player could pretty much dance all over the board and leave you with very little actual agency in the game. I only played BFG with a few friends, and we sold our Necron models after a couple of games because everyone agreed they sucked so much to play as or against. Arguably most players include Eldar and Chaos as mean contenders for best faction (though it is clear that speed & maneuverability do kill yeah) in terms of actual wins per game instead of raw ship stats because necrons do feel the bite of every of lost ship. From the necron player's PoV his errors are punished hard and he can't he play around with strats like baiting/sacrificing weak ships for more advantageous positions or anything like that. You don't feel unstoppable per se, your ships are good but you also feel like you're stuck protecting your million year old antique heirlooms from filthy kids with sticky fingers. While it might not carry across the same spirit from the TT, you could definitely just balance necrons by making them super expensive and always outnumbered with otherwise similar rules instead letting them field near equivalent forces but giving them unique rules to chastise any loss. I imagine giving them fewer ships to micro with good abilities will make them feel sufficiently tough w/o making them feel like they're joyriding in their dad's Porsche and oh god did it just scrape the medium I'm dead.
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Apr 3, 2016 03:38
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So I am like really good with Chaos but really bad with IN. What cruiser is the good one to start with. I went with the gothic but it just kills things so slow and it seems my stuff is always sitting around damaged. The dominator seems to go down fast if it isn't able to spam its shots out.
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Apr 3, 2016 07:08
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The Lunar is a good all-rounder or go for the one with the ordinance bay or the split macro/plasma macro battery. The Gothic is more of a fire support cruiser. E: cruisers tend to be a weak point for IN until you get to Battlecruisers and Battleships. Be sure to bring plenty of light cruisers and escorts for backup. e2: get good at using torpedoes as you can seriously amp up your cruiser damage output if you learn to micro them NoNotTheMindProbe fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Apr 3, 2016 |
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Apr 3, 2016 07:14
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Doing a rough breakdown of cruisers: The Dominator is almost certainly the best pick you could make for a first cruiser. Coming with both a Nova Cannon and absolutely brutal close-range broadsides, it is reasonably flexible. The trick with it is positioning, as just carelessly charging into close-range of certain fleets(Orks) just means you're playing to their strengths. It will certainly die quickly in its own favored engagement range against multiple Ork ships, but unlike them you do still keep more of your firepower at longer ranges. In addition, even if you're not being a dick and Nova Cannon spamming, a few in the fleet does help keep the other person honest. Lance boats(like the Gothic) generally need something else to actually draw attention, as they simply do not fire fast enough to both break shields and do significant damage before something closes the range with them. Even in the fluff this is mentioned - Gothics often needed a guard cruiser to assist them from being overwhelmed. A few Dauntlesses don't really fulfill this function, which is why the Gothic really is not a great choice for your first cruiser. It excels once you have more than one heavier ship, since lances are great at causing crits along with eating through hulls once it actually hits them. The Lunar is okay, but has specialization issues. Coming with both lances and macros, it's never going to excel at either role as much as the more specialized choices both due to lacking the upgrade slots and lacking the sheer amount of either even if you do specialize. While "decent at everything" sounds okay in principle, it really doesn't work great in practice. It also lacks a comparable bonus that its Chaos pseudo-counterpart, the Slaughter, gets to make itself more distinctive from everything else. The Dictator is an interesting choice, but really has no synergy with anything else the Imperials field at that point. It also runs into similar issues as the Lunar, only even more so as it adds a THIRD type of weapon to the hull. Not that strike craft aren't powerful, but with only a single Dictator fielding them you're really not adding all that many - most Chaos players are still going to be fielding more strike craft, and you also lack the ability of their carriers to play keep away with unfriendly individuals trying to close the range with your relatively lightly armed cruiser. I've got a suspicion I'm forgetting one, but don't currently have the game open. edit: Yeah, I'm forgetting the one with plasma macros. I'd still argue that the Dominator is overall better, but I can see situations where you might want the extra range.
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Apr 3, 2016 07:33
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Lord Koth posted:edit: Yeah, I'm forgetting the one with plasma macros. I'd still argue that the Dominator is overall better, but I can see situations where you might want the extra range. If you want the extra range. Grab the extra range upgrade.
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Apr 3, 2016 07:38
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Lord Koth posted:Doing a rough breakdown of cruisers: The key to IN cruisers i think is pure admech--thats an extra upgrade and skill each. After playing a chaos fleet i totally realize that the dictators 2 wings are not worth it at all. The mars can make it work with its lance turrets and 9k macros but a weak 6k macro battery with merely 2 wings of strike craft is recipe for disaster.
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Apr 3, 2016 08:18
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OK, so it is mostly that I am in a tight spot until I get to the next tier.
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Apr 3, 2016 08:54
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Pretty much. The original table top game was designed around mixed fleets with a battleship or battle cruiser as your centrepiece. Standard cruisers aren't really meant to be your fleet anchor.
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Apr 3, 2016 09:02
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Arghy posted:Just how the gently caress are you to counter a chaos data recovery/assin when your orks? The chaos ships go faster then every single ship with speed upgrades as default. I dont bother even trying, instead I try and kill as many of their other ships as I can in the time allotted, usually ends up being at least profitable for me with no losses. Arglebargle III posted:Can't say I'm enjoying the death spiral mechanic. Losing my flagship just makes me want to put the game down. Tindahbawx fucked around with this message at 10:20 on Apr 3, 2016 |
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Apr 3, 2016 10:17
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Tindahbawx posted:I dont bother even trying, instead I try and kill as many of their other ships as I can in the time allotted, usually ends up being at least profitable for me with no losses. Yeah I really like the fact that the way ship loss works pushes you into a different mindset than any other RTS. So many games now just reach a point where one side disengages and tries to salvage as many ships as possible from a lost fight and it's an incredibly refreshing change from the 'fight to the death all day every day' thing that other games do because there's no reason to care if your units die. e: ps seriously considering putting asteroid shields on my battleship for the 'lol come at me' factor Alchenar fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Apr 3, 2016 |
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Apr 3, 2016 10:47
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Is there single player skirmish in the current beta?
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Apr 3, 2016 10:49
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Ragingsheep posted:Is there single player skirmish in the current beta? Yes there is.
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Apr 3, 2016 10:50
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Does anybody else have a Chaos Desolator Battleship? Is seems to be missing the macro cannons for its merged lance broadside weapons.
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Apr 3, 2016 11:02
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Arghy posted:The key to IN cruisers i think is pure admech--thats an extra upgrade and skill each. Ehhhh, i'm not so sure. It still depends on what you're going to do with that ship. I'd agree with it being the go-to for light cruisers as it pretty much doubles their skill choices and lets you have a choice beyond MWJ and it's not a bad default choice all around really. Still, Space Marines for any ship that's going to get close isn't a bad idea. Helps you resist boarding efforts, makes yours even nastier. Inquistion is better on longer ranged ships, CV's and the like. Being able to reveal a sensor blip as you like is a wonderful trick and very nice against kitting fleets. Course the Emperor with it's 12.5k sensor radius kinda side steps that problem entirely. Y'know what, i think one of Chaos' big problems is that their favours are generally kinda "mehhhhh"
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Apr 3, 2016 12:21
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The only Chaos favor that seems really meh is Slaneesh, and it still lets you lock down skill use which can sometimes be alright. Tzeentch lets you teleport a ship across the map with the warp echo thing, which is great. The other part of the favor basically exists to pretend like you're hiding your fleet while every other ship hits silent running and heads the other way. Completely useless in AI skirmish of course, but can be fun in multiplayer. It's a great addition to the chaos toolbox. Khorne is literally identical to Space Marine favor. Nurgle doesn't have the boarding/LS benefit of Khorne but a Nurgle ship reduces LS/Boarding torpedoes to 11% success chance with level 3 Cultists and since turrets count for troop value in broadside boarding, sufficiently big Nurgle ships have 100+% defense against that. Sure, maybe an ork battlecruiser rolls 5 boarding dice, 6 with Goff favor, but who cares if the success chance of each is 0% until you strip half the turrets off the ship? Also, they just buffed its damage aura to ignore armor, which it apparently didn't before. Nurgle is one of the best defensive favors because a Nurgle ship will suffer far fewer boarding crits in any game, and it still offers a close range offense benefit. I really like running Nurgle Slaughters. Speed upgrade to keep up with speed-boosted Hellbringers and escorts at 275 speed, extra turrets for defense against torpedos, ordnance and for the extra boarding troop value. Belt armor. Crits are rare against Nurgle vessels but I still like to ignore the first one to hit a critical system. AP ammo. The final slot on a level 10 Nurgle Slaughter is whatever. Lance range so if you're still kiting the ship can contribute at least a little bit at range, maybe. (I don't upgrade the range on 6k macros unless I can also fit in accuracy). Obviously you can do this with other ships. I just can't work up any real enthusiasm for the Carnage. At least the Slaughter has the speed gimmick. Every other Chaos ship class can be made to fight from 12k or more with lances or ordnance. But sometimes it's nice to gum up an enemy if they do manage to close, or, in a mirror match, it's great to chase down the other Chaos fleet with cruisers that are super fast, and super tedious to fight. Psykmoe fucked around with this message at 12:58 on Apr 3, 2016 |
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Apr 3, 2016 12:32
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Yeah the only bad chaos favor is slannesh which needs to be reworked, nurgle/khorne/tzeentch are solid picks for what they do. I put nurgle on my hellbringers besides my single tzeentch stealth hellbringer because they often get pestered by escorts and nurgles rot fucks em up. It also allows them to shrug off boarders which rocks. I put khorne on all of my cruisers and nurgle on everything bigger.Blinks77 posted:Ehhhh, i'm not so sure. It still depends on what you're going to do with that ship. My layout is SM for all my dauntless except for my stealth dauntless which has admech. The fast dauntless with AP/speed/void/tele wrecks face except when it encounters orks haha then you just gotta set range to 6k and hope you don't get boarded to death. The 3 lightening strikes is huge because their macros are great for taking down shields so you'll often do a pass then hammer home a huge boarding action that just wrecks face. I was tempted to go extra bridge and just rely on standard boarding since even if you lose your deck you can still board. IN cruisers are all about their upgrades though, 1 extra skill/upgrade is huge. Remember MWJ is your sensor range so you can turn your dominator into a 7.5k MWD/shield/stasis bomb with AP/sensors/speed/shields. No one expects your cruisers to jump 7.5k instead of 5k and that could literally be the end of a game. The hard part is what do i get for BCs? generally inquisition is a good idea with that awesome crew bonus but ad mech/SM work equally well. I know BB's are a no brainer as the emperor gets so much from inquisition. I've been sticking to carrier = inquisition and only using dauntless as SM boarding boats.
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Apr 3, 2016 12:59
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Are assault boats or boarding torpedoes affected by anything that affects amount of boarding dice you roll like skills or favors, or is it only Boarding Actions? Eg, if I take Goff/Khorne favor, does that affect Boarding Torpedos + assault boats? Also can anyone tell me how many skills and upgrades each class of ship gets at max level?
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Apr 3, 2016 13:21
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Yeah I tend to favor SM for my Dauntless cruisers. I like building Mk2s for close range work, but the one with the prow lance can be good too. Teleportarium/Speed/Lance range/macro range/accuracy lets you engange at 9k with lance and dorsals when chasing an enemy and still pop out those 3 attack lightning strikes. AdMech is nice for cruisers. I have an irrational fondness for the Lunar, so the extra upgrade slot is kinda important. Speed/macro range/accuracy/lance range, 2 misc upgrades (turrets, belt armor, turning, view range, whatever) Gothic usually can get away with running Marine favor. Speed, lance range, maybe turrets, 2 misc upgrades. There are so many loving macro cannons in an IN fleet (some of which have higher range than a Gothic's lances) that the upgrade that makes lances slightly less poo poo vs shields feels kind of costly. Dominator/Tyrant are kind of a toss-up. I like all 3 macro gun upgrades, plus speed, which only leaves 1 slot for utility/defenses when I go SM favor, but I do very much appreciate the higher troop value when actually getting into AP ammo range. Still, an extra skill and extra upgrade with AdMech are super nice to expand your options. Considering IN has to fit its playstyle to the opponent more than the other factions have to, more options in skills is super helpful. Carriers just always get Inquisition. The extra +1 to all crew is just too nice, and the tarot can be good when augur probes are on cooldown and something is bothering you from outside view range. I never know what to do with the Overlord. All its guns have 12k range already. Macro accuracy is still only 30% at 15k with targeting upgrade so I don't feel like upgrading range. Speed/accuracy/AP ammo for close, then 2 slots for utility/defense options doesn't exactly demand AdMech, plus with SM favor a battlecruiser rolls like 5 attacks in close range boarding, so there is that. Battleships are easy. Emperor benefits from Inquisition, and the UI does not support vessels with 5 skills so AdMech is a waste, you'll never see your bonus skill to click on it, which basically leaves SM for the Retribution for the extra troop value. Tindahbawx posted:Are assault boats or boarding torpedoes affected by anything that affects amount of boarding dice you roll like skills or favors, or is it only Boarding Actions? Those favor bonuses only count for broadside boarding. There are no ways to add extra dice to boarding torpedoes and assault pods except launching more or damaging the enemy ship so it has fewer turrets to shoot them down. An assault pod launch from a Styx/Emperor with its 4 ordnance bays represents 8 boarding attacks before they get thinned out by turrets. Before the change it was 3 rolls per intact flight, now 2. Each ship has as many skills as it has at level 1, plus whatever activated abilities it can get from favors (+1 skill from AdMech, traktor beams/shokk attack gun, Tzeentch toys etc). A Light cruiser without favors always has 1 skill, cruiser 2, etc. Upgrades are earned every even level, so a level 10 ship has 5 upgrade slots, 6 for AdMech/Bad Moons. Psykmoe fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Apr 3, 2016 |
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Apr 3, 2016 13:25
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Psykmoe posted:Yeah I tend to favor SM for my Dauntless cruisers. I like building Mk2s for close range work, but the one with the prow lance can be good too. Teleportarium/Speed/Lance range/macro range/accuracy lets you engange at 9k with lance and dorsals when chasing an enemy and still pop out those 3 attack lightning strikes. Thank you for this.
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Apr 3, 2016 13:54
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Oh yeah, in case anyone has been wondering, the accuracy upgrade for guns only starts working outside 6k range, not AT 6k, I misunderstood the tooltip myself, but it was clarified and confirmed by Ravensburg, the def. Without accuracy bonus, IN/Chaos macros lose 20% accuracy per range band. 80% at 3k, 60% at 6k, 40% at 9k, 20% at 12k and 0% at 15k. Accuracy falls off gradually, by the way, so you'd be looking at 30% accuracy at 10.5k for example. With the accuracy upgrade, the accuracy loss per range band beyond 6k is only 10%. Still 60% at 6k, but then 50% at 9k, 40% at 12k and 30% at 15k range. http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?p=15635#p15635 Here's the post explaining it and Ravensburg confirming immediately after. This makes the accuracy upgrade only actually useful for a tiny handful of ork weapons, since only the prow gunz (9k base) and the stock broadside gunz (6k base) can be made to have enough range to where the upgrade starts halving range penalties.
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Apr 3, 2016 16:12
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I still have no idea how people play Imperials. Orks and Chaos I'm decent enough at, but my god do I suck as the Imperial faction ... the Emperor would be shedding tears if he watched me play.Psykmoe posted:Those favor bonuses only count for broadside boarding. There are no ways to add extra dice to boarding torpedoes and assault pods except launching more or damaging the enemy ship so it has fewer turrets to shoot them down. An assault pod launch from a Styx/Emperor with its 4 ordnance bays represents 8 boarding attacks before they get thinned out by turrets. Before the change it was 3 rolls per intact flight, now 2. Quality post man, thanks. 
Tindahbawx fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Apr 3, 2016 |
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Apr 3, 2016 16:33
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