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OwlFancier posted:So tiy is basically an MRA fedora wearing turbocapitalist. No but I had to convince him that getting a Serval for a pet would be a very very very bad idea. Then they wanted to get a bearded dragon for an office pet... The White Dragon posted:rho i'm assuming that you guys didn't have to assume any ndas, in which case lol We did, but they were really basic, pretty much "don't leak the game to anyone, don't give anyone else our assets" kind of deals. Ran Mad Dog posted:Wow, I just finished reading this and my main take away is basically gently caress early access for enabling poo poo like this, we would be better off without it and and the widely apparent "feeling free to get effectively nothing done!" attitude that it enables. As a developer EA/crowdsourcing in my honest opinion is a huge mistake that's discrediting the industry. There's a reason it was so hard to get games published before and that's because publishers were only willing to fund games/developers that were a good investment. If they saw any kind of poo poo that looked off they'd leave it. The average gamer doesn't have the kind of savvy that a game exec does, so they're going to throw their money at the shiniest sales pitches without looking at what's under the covers. I'm getting kind of ranty here especially given my living was made from it, but that's my take on the whole thing. The good thing is gamers are starting to get savvy and less gullible because of it, so maybe it'll work out in the end. Rhopunzel fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Apr 3, 2016 |
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Apr 3, 2016 20:27
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Rhopunzel posted:No but I had to convince him that getting a Serval for a pet would be a very very very bad idea. Then they wanted to get a bearded dragon for an office pet... i have a friend who's studying to get a herpetology degree and he has a bearded dragon for a pet and i think he would have Words about how stupid of an idea that would be, going off of previous things he's said
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Apr 3, 2016 20:36
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Johnny Joestar posted:i have a friend who's studying to get a herpetology degree and he has a bearded dragon for a pet and i think he would have Words about how stupid of an idea that would be, going off of previous things he's said We have one and it's only because my wife's a huge animal nerd and knows exactly what needs he has. If she wasn't around I wouldn't have any idea what kind of ratios to feed him and how much UV he'd need.
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Apr 3, 2016 20:39
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Ran Mad Dog posted:Wow, I just finished reading this and my main take away is basically gently caress early access for enabling poo poo like this, we would be better off without it and and the widely apparent "feeling free to get effectively nothing done!" attitude that it enables.
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Apr 3, 2016 20:43
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Lucid Dream posted:I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bath water. Early Access can be abused, but it also is an alternative to Kickstarter which actually requires something playable alongside actual reviews of what is actually available and playable. For a lot of indies, myself included, the choice is often between Kickstarter, Early Access and just crapping the game out the door unfinished or much smaller than originally planned. Of those options, Early Access is still the most consumer friendly. I'm pretty sure almost every indie dev would rather do none of the above, and just work on the game until it is completely finished before asking a cent for it, but that simply isn't an option a lot of the time. I love the game I'm working on and I want it to be the best game possible, and Early Access is helping to facilitate that. Not gonna lie, the free QA is also immensely helpful and genuinely can make for a better game in the long run even if it seems distasteful on the surface. Personally, I just avoid Early Access games until they are finished, and let other people fund the development while I wait on the sidelines to see if it ever turns into something worth the price of admission. Right, exactly this. I wasn't meaning to suggest we throw all unfunded indie devs under the bus, I wish it could work but in its current state it's easily abused and its up to the consumer to decide what's a good investment and what isn't, and like you said, a lot of people are starting to wisen up and let others take up the slack before they pass judgment.
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Apr 3, 2016 20:46
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Rhopunzel posted:Right, exactly this. I wasn't meaning to suggest we throw all unfunded indie devs under the bus, I wish it could work but in its current state it's easily abused and its up to the consumer to decide what's a good investment and what isn't, and like you said, a lot of people are starting to wisen up and let others take up the slack before they pass judgment. Yeah, EA is far from a perfect solution, but for a poorly funded or un-funded indie it seems like the lesser of the available evils as far as I can tell.
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Apr 3, 2016 20:47
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Rhopunzel posted:He's a "businessperson" you see. People were willing to work for free so why wouldn't you exploit that? It's good business sense you see. Are you sure he won't sue you for slander as any good sociopathic businessperson would do?
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Apr 3, 2016 20:57
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The best thing about Kickstarter/EA is that you can let others throw their money at a game that can cut and run and just buy it if they actually deliver a good game in the end. It's not like you have to be indie dev to be a bit lovely/bad at delivering on kickstarters. Comcept and Double Fine claim to be Indie but they stretch that definition hard.
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Apr 3, 2016 20:57
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EA/KS are fine, people are bad with money. Once they get burned enough they'll stop touching the fire. Or won't, I don't really care. My investments have produced a bunch of cool games for me, at criminally low prices. I'll accept occasionally funding a Starbound or overpaying for Banner Saga if it means I keep getting stuff like PoE, Grim Dawn, Darkest Dungeon, Shadowrun, etc. I'm not sure Dungeonmans would exist without KS and it has one of my highest (by hours) counts of any roguelike in the last five years or so. And you don't need to invest in anything you don't trust, see if it comes out of the fire and profit off of my stupidity and/or gullibility.
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Apr 3, 2016 20:58
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StarMinstrel posted:Are you sure he won't sue you for slander as any good sociopathic businessperson would do? It'd be libel (libel is written, slander is spoken), and you can't sue somebody for libel for stuff that is quite literally true and often in Tiy's own words. (Plus you can't sue people in the UK court and have it have any effect in the US thanks to 2010's SPEECH Act since UK courts are heavily geared towards the plaintiff; to the point where people were suing in the UK solely because it was so easy to do so/win there). quote:A federal bill based on Rachel's Law, the SPEECH Act, was passed in the 111th Congress, by unanimous vote of both the House of Representatives (as HR 2765 in 2009) and the Senate (as S 3518 in 2010), and signed into law by President Barack Obama in August 2010. Like Rachel's law, the SPEECH Act declares foreign libel judgments to be unenforceable unless they meet the criteria set forth by the First Amendment. The act contains further provisions allowing the libel plaintiff to be counter-sued for a declaration that the foreign libel judgment is "repugnant" to American constitutional law, with the possibility of recovering damages Party Plane Jones fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Apr 3, 2016 |
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Apr 3, 2016 21:01
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Starbound 1.0 update looks great! Almost all the features they wrote about and outlined sound like pretty good improvements and the tweaks to things like combat, planet generation (with multiple biomes), crafting progression, and generated quests look amazing. I can't wait to see how Tiy fucks all of them up and the end product we get turns out to be nothing like what's being outlined here!
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Apr 3, 2016 21:06
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Rhopunzel posted:No but I had to convince him that getting a Serval for a pet would be a very very very bad idea. lmao this poo poo is almost straight outta grandma's boy
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Apr 3, 2016 21:13
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Party Plane Jones posted:It'd be libel (libel is written, slander is spoken), and you can't sue somebody for libel for stuff that is quite literally true and often in Tiy's own words. Ah gotcha, even though I was half-joking. I'm not sure why my first reaction toward people with disposable income is the ability to sue left and right to try and assert authority.
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Apr 3, 2016 21:15
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UncleSmoothie posted:Starbound 1.0 details announced. It's "getting close" but no exact date specified. Most of these actually sound pretty great, can't wait to see how terribly it's all implemented. 
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Apr 3, 2016 21:30
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I keep seeing EA and getting it mixed up with Electronic Arts instead of Early Access.
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Apr 3, 2016 21:34
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RareAcumen posted:I keep seeing EA and getting it mixed up with Electronic Arts instead of Early Access. To be fair, EA IS a mistake
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Apr 3, 2016 21:40
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Can't wait for Starbound 1.0 to come out and be terrible and then abandoned. It is the way of EA.
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Apr 3, 2016 21:43
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Rhopunzel posted:Right, exactly this. I wasn't meaning to suggest we throw all unfunded indie devs under the bus, I wish it could work but in its current state it's easily abused and its up to the consumer to decide what's a good investment and what isn't, and like you said, a lot of people are starting to wisen up and let others take up the slack before they pass judgment. Lucid Dream posted:Yeah, EA is far from a perfect solution, but for a poorly funded or un-funded indie it seems like the lesser of the available evils as far as I can tell. Also a massive risk for all parties in volved is under and over funding, both can easily sink a project. From that point it'll be games that are already finished enough to launch fully that simply use it as a shield like so many things do by keeping that 'beta' tag on it. #indiepocalypse bartwe fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Apr 3, 2016 |
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Apr 3, 2016 21:45
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bartwe posted:That and publishers don't fund games anymore as far as i can tell. they do but generally only mid-size studios. i can see why square-enix would be hesitant to throw cash at "man in garage" and indie publishing tends to be more like book publishing where a (good) publisher will toss you a cash advance for a mostly-completed project and handle marketing/visibility for you and take a reasonably small cut for it
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Apr 3, 2016 21:49
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The White Dragon posted:they do but generally only mid-size studios. i can see why square-enix would be hesitant to throw cash at "man in garage" and indie publishing tends to be more like book publishing where a (good) publisher will toss you a cash advance for a mostly-completed project and handle marketing/visibility for you and take a reasonably small cut for it The Enix part of Squeenix got hosed multiple times by bad games sucking down all their funding back in the early aughts and there's a good deal of institutional memory for being the company that let Looking Glass go bankrupt because they had invested too much money into Daikatana.
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Apr 3, 2016 21:58
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Lucid Dream posted:I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bath water. Early Access can be abused, but it also is an alternative to Kickstarter which actually requires something playable alongside actual reviews of what is actually available and playable. For a lot of indies, myself included, the choice is often between Kickstarter, Early Access and just crapping the game out the door unfinished or much smaller than originally planned. Of those options, Early Access is still the most consumer friendly. I'm pretty sure almost every indie dev would rather do none of the above, and just work on the game until it is completely finished before asking a cent for it, but that simply isn't an option a lot of the time. I love the game I'm working on and I want it to be the best game possible, and Early Access is helping to facilitate that. Not gonna lie, the free QA is also immensely helpful and genuinely can make for a better game in the long run even if it seems distasteful on the surface. Personally, I just avoid Early Access games until they are finished, and let other people fund the development while I wait on the sidelines to see if it ever turns into something worth the price of admission. That a dev working on an Early Access game can't even recommend anyone actually use Early Access is not exactly a good or even sincere defense of the program.
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Apr 3, 2016 23:04
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Ran Mad Dog posted:That a dev working on an Early Access game can't even recommend anyone actually use Early Access is not exactly a good or even sincere defense of the program. Lucid Dream fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Apr 3, 2016 |
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Apr 3, 2016 23:08
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I want people to believe in early access because my game will be going into EA before too long and I want everyone to give me all of their money so I can
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Apr 3, 2016 23:16
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tell me about your game bm is it called moonbound does it star a sentient poo poo
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Apr 3, 2016 23:33
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it's basically an animal crossing clone, don't want to say too much without consulting the rest of the team it's the dark souls of animal crossing games
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Apr 3, 2016 23:39
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Animal Crossing but in a souls setting would be pretty funny.
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Apr 3, 2016 23:43
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It's in a future setting, you attract aliens and humans and we're thinking about demons/monsters and you chill with them and then your buddies can visit your colony and gently caress around and then you can leave your colony and explore the planet it's on (you generated the planet before you founded your colony) I was just using the Dark Souls of game comparisons
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Apr 3, 2016 23:45
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seems like there's a lot of animal crossing/harvest moon-esque stuff coming out lately. stardew valley train rollin' atm I guess
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Apr 3, 2016 23:49
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Nothing really "Animal Crossing"-ey coming out at all as far as I know. Animal Crossing isn't a farming game, it's a super casual, freeform-goals, chill-out simulator with minor social elements and some decorating. our game is mostly like that, but the elements we're working on to actually make it its own thing and not just an AC clone are going to have nothing to do with farming or economy elements. One of the big things we're doing is the game-reads-your-system-clock, real-time thing with a full calendar e: also I've been working on this game for loving ever at this point but only recently did I find some bros who want to make it with me lol. I've been making assets and building a design document ever since I realized we weren't getting an Animal Crossing U.
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Apr 3, 2016 23:52
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Also re: Starbound 1.0, most of that is actually already in the nightlies, so version 1.0 is a lot closer than most people think (2 years away instead of the expected 7)
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Apr 4, 2016 00:00
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Man, I saw the 1.0 announcement post on the Starbound site and just had to check this thread out. I had fun with the early beta. I wouldn't say I'm a true believer, but I've been accused of it since I've given it the benefit of the doubt longer than most. That being said, I picked it up a month or two ago and it crashed out of nowhere and irretrievably corrupted my save data. I wonder if that is going to make it to release. I'm just glad I got my money's worth out of it before it began to drag and people wound up disillusioned with it so I can put it behind me and never think about it again if it's garbage on launch day. Glad to hear some of the cooler folks got out of that mess, too. I've been in a lovely mismanaged toxic software development environment before myself and it's beyond tiresome. Moving on though, Staxel looks way cute, and I'm always interested in a low-conflict sandbox. I'm kinda tempted to throw a few bucks at it, as much as I'm able to appreciate the irony in talking about committing to early access for any game in the Starbound thread of all places.
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Apr 4, 2016 00:06
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Babe Magnet posted:It's in a future setting, you attract aliens and humans and we're thinking about demons/monsters and you chill with them and then your buddies can visit your colony and gently caress around and then you can leave your colony and explore the planet it's on (you generated the planet before you founded your colony)
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Apr 4, 2016 00:24
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I am 100% not joking, progress is just really slow because up until recently I was the only person working on the game and I have absolutely 0 coding/programming knowledge so I've just been doing a bunch of art stuff and building the design document and doing research.
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Apr 4, 2016 00:33
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Babe Magnet posted:I have absolutely 0 coding/programming knowledge nobody does even some people who have studied computer science extensively think that classes are extraneous and everything that can, should go in the main method. but they have better reasons than "i'm basically the equivalent of an outsider artist except with programming" it's cool to just leeroy jenkins that poo poo brah, who cares about things like "good coding practices" 
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Apr 4, 2016 00:38
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well I mean I guess I technically might know a little bit about what I'm doing but I'm fuckin' awful at it. I might prefer to just push vertices all day I did try a little to get something going but my actual programmer friend was like "nah dude we're just going to do this from scratch" and we're further now in the past 3 weeks than I had gotten in six months lol e: I know enough to form bad habits and to make mistakes that are difficult or time-consuming to fix Babe Magnet fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Apr 4, 2016 |
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Apr 4, 2016 00:43
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Vib Rib posted:I don't know how much of this is just you Sounds pretty Helck-y
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Apr 4, 2016 00:50
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Yeah one thing I've learned as a dev is that almost everyone was more talented than me, they just didn't think they could make a game so they didn't. Starting is seriously the best thing you can do.
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Apr 4, 2016 00:56
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The White Dragon posted:nobody does I need to find that tweet from Toby Fox where someone asks him what the hell is up with Undertale's code (it involved there being hundreds of cases or something, I don't recall the specifics because I too am not great at coding) and he says he doesn't know how to program. It was great.
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Apr 4, 2016 00:56
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Vib Rib posted:...I love Animal Crossing and "evil is good" games like Dungeon Keeper so the idea of an Animal Crossing-ish game populated by cool demons and monsters acting like friends sounds really awesome and I would like to know more, please keep us posted. not emptyquoting
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Apr 4, 2016 00:57
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Rhopunzel posted:Right, exactly this. I wasn't meaning to suggest we throw all unfunded indie devs under the bus, I wish it could work but in its current state it's easily abused and its up to the consumer to decide what's a good investment and what isn't, and like you said, a lot of people are starting to wisen up and let others take up the slack before they pass judgment. I would say that Star Citizen proves you wrong. But otherwise I agree. I made a few EA mistakes and some wins. Nuclear Throne and darkest dungeon being the 2 most memorable good ones. There's a few others I like but I can't of them off the top of my head. Dark out was a huge disapointmet. I bought into that way before it hit EA. And now, the only EA game I'm looking forward to is Space, Pirates, and Zombies 2. Been waiting on that game for a couple years now.
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