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No Overall Control?
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Apr 5, 2016 12:41
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TACD posted:So who's projected to take the other 20? Greens? Respect? My left bollock? That's from a presentation given today that doesn't appear to be online (yet) so we can't give you a breakdown of the 'others'. But I don't think you actually care. It's just a way for you to be dismissive of the projection.
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Apr 5, 2016 12:43
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Pissflaps posted:Who is they and 200 what? "they" is obviously Rallings and Thrasher and their prediction of the number of Labour councillors from the locals last year was off by 200 - although no one really noticed since no one really closely looks at local elections the year of a general election the way that they do any other year. Jesus Christ pissflaps please at least read other peoples posts before being pernickety, this one was pretty fuckin clear e: the other 50 will be Greens, random Independents, the normal people who randomly gain Local Election seats. The last time most of these locals voted was 2012 which might have been Miliband's best set, I can't quite remember the exact details of Council elections not done in my area. They still gained a lot less than they were expecting, and losing seats from that position would be rather disappointing IceAgeComing fucked around with this message at 12:46 on Apr 5, 2016 |
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Apr 5, 2016 12:43
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I'm going campaign for my local election to leave the EU. You heard me.
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Apr 5, 2016 12:53
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IceAgeComing posted:"they" is obviously Rallings and Thrasher and their prediction of the number of Labour councillors from the locals last year was off by 200 - although no one really noticed since no one really closely looks at local elections the year of a general election the way that they do any other year. Jesus Christ pissflaps please at least read other peoples posts before being pernickety, this one was pretty fuckin clear It wasn't clear at all. I think you're just describing it as such to give yourself the opportunity to be abusive. You've also failed to source your figures.
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Apr 5, 2016 13:05
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TACD posted:So who's projected to take the other 20? Greens? Respect? My left bollock?
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Apr 5, 2016 13:16
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Being fair I went to the website of the two to try and glance at the figures but their piece of poo poo site is slow and broken, so it's hard to prove. Also calm down pissflaps.
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Apr 5, 2016 13:18
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I like how as if to really show how hosed we are in the UK two separate left-wing groups founded 'unity' groups - LU and the TUSC. And both groups claim to work together but routinely put out poo poo disparaging the other. Left-wing politics is dead in the United Kingdom because the egos of these loving shits are untameable.
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Apr 5, 2016 13:20
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Guavanaut posted:Is that the new Left Unity splinter group? I don't want my left bollock splintered. Or the right one  In other news, the Labour party are offering postcards to people donating small amounts. Thought I'd chip in and donate and HSBC blocked my card. Hmm. Preemptive response for the next five pages of the thread: gently caress off flaps
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Apr 5, 2016 13:21
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Kegluneq posted:In other news, the Labour party are offering postcards to people donating small amounts. Thought I'd chip in and donate and HSBC blocked my card. Hmm. this is bad for corbyn
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Apr 5, 2016 13:25
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Tesseraction posted:I like how as if to really show how hosed we are in the UK two separate left-wing groups founded 'unity' groups - LU and the TUSC. And both groups claim to work together but routinely put out poo poo disparaging the other. This has been a thing for a long time.
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Apr 5, 2016 13:29
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Tesseraction posted:Left-wing politics is dead in the United Kingdom because the egos of these loving shits are untameable. Except when anarchists steal the SWP's banners. also Iol. What this overall leads to is unpleasant liberal truth-is-in-the-middle politics though.
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Apr 5, 2016 13:29
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Tesseraction posted:I'm going campaign for my local election to leave the EU. Yes this is definitely not a foolish thing to do
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Apr 5, 2016 13:40
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Fringe right politics is basically a few dozen little hitlers all desperate to be the next fuhrer and they all hate each other. If you look at the current membership of any hard right party or group right now odds are they've been in half a dozen other grouplets previously. It's a constant churning and recombining of the same few hundred people into handfuls of new and old groups. Left groups are prone to splitting but not to the same degree that right-wing groups are. The right really can't go for more than a single demo without being at each others' throats on facebook afterwards and unfriending each other in a hissy fit.
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Apr 5, 2016 13:41
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Guavanaut posted:tbf right wing fringe politics is worse. At least the left groups aren't routinely beating the poo poo out of each other at rallies. lol. No, it leads to something worse - right-wing hegemony. The far-right "KILL THE DARKIES" lot are not serious political considerations. The right-wing, while thankfully tearing itself apart at the moment are doing it because Cameron is acting too left-wing for a real Tory to stomach. Cameron is more classic liberal and a metropolitan character. The Tories see him from the right with the same disdain we look at Nick Clegg with from the left. They want a proper right-winger in charge, especially if Hammypants is going to bend over for Brussels.
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Apr 5, 2016 13:42
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Yes this is definitely not a foolish thing to do I'm going to campaign for my local election to take place in Osaka.
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Apr 5, 2016 13:43
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See, the sentence reads like I'm going to locally campaign on a 'Leave the EU' platform, but I was actually implying I wanted my local elections in a non-EU country.
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Apr 5, 2016 13:45
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Tesseraction posted:I like how as if to really show how hosed we are in the UK two separate left-wing groups founded 'unity' groups - LU and the TUSC. And both groups claim to work together but routinely put out poo poo disparaging the other. That's not really unique to the here and now, though, leftwingers have always been like this. I mean, look at the reason the Bolsheviks were called the Bolsheviks. Edit: I saw the postcards too. I'm a bit miffed that one of them is the new Clause 4, would prefer the old one  feedmegin fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Apr 5, 2016 |
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Apr 5, 2016 13:59
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feedmegin posted:That's not really unique to the here and now, though, leftwingers have always been like this. I mean, look at the reason the Bolsheviks were called the Bolsheviks. Yeah, and that was the start. It was bad enough when it was just the Bolshies and the Menshies, heck it was bad enough when Marx was such an rear end in a top hat he split the First International, but even back then it was two groups who could work together until they got into power. Now a splinter group pops up every time a member sneezes, and they all refuse to work with each other so it's just a bucket full of tiny, stupid crabs.
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Apr 5, 2016 14:09
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A possibly comforting thought is that splitting can be a sign of vibrant interest, a sign of lots of people actually caring about something. The ecumenical movement only really got going in Christianity once it was moribund, for example. Then again, LU and TUSC basically are the left ecumenical movement, so this is not comforting at all. Sorry.
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Apr 5, 2016 14:11
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Tesseraction posted:I'm going campaign for my local election to leave the EU. I will be campaigning to remain in the EU let's fight
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Apr 5, 2016 14:42
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I won't be campaigning for either side because I don't give a rat's rear end about this stupid referendum that screws us either way
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Apr 5, 2016 14:52
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Tesseraction posted:Yeah, and that was the start. It was bad enough when it was just the Bolshies and the Menshies, heck it was bad enough when Marx was such an rear end in a top hat he split the First International, but even back then it was two groups who could work together until they got into power. Now a splinter group pops up every time a member sneezes, and they all refuse to work with each other so it's just a bucket full of tiny, stupid crabs. Stephen Crabb is not a lefty.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:09
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kustomkarkommando posted:I will be campaigning to remain in the EU drat it I already explained this joke.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:14
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Oh dear me posted:A possibly comforting thought is that splitting can be a sign of vibrant interest, a sign of lots of people actually caring about something. The problem is they care about being the next big figure of history who led the Great Socialist Enlightenment, and if they can't be in the inner circle then by golly are they making their own new party with a new inner circle that they get to choose this time. People are so desperate to be Lenin they end up being Trotsky.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:17
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Tesseraction posted:The problem is they care about being the next big figure of history who led the Great Socialist Enlightenment, and if they can't be in the inner circle then by golly are they making their own new party with a new inner circle that they get to choose this time. More like Vivian
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Apr 5, 2016 15:25
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Full Anarchy Now
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Apr 5, 2016 15:27
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JFairfax posted:More like Vivian ..who? Please tell me we aren't going to get a speech on ethics...
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Apr 5, 2016 15:29
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I'm hoping Young Ones.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:30
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Dead Goon posted:Full Anarchy Now I've met a lot of Anarchists in the last few months and invariably they are the nicest most comradely people. After dover this Saturday I was doing arrestee support (basically hanging around outside police stations making sure that when Antifa got released they were picked up, had a means of getting home, or a bed for the night at least) until about 2am with an assorted mix of other AFN and Anarchists, and the anarchists were such cool people. This was in stark contrast to the two old farts from the SWP who really resented the expectation that they'd show solidarity for their comrades by waiting outside in the rain for a few hours to assist them - they went home early in the end. I mention the SWP especially because there seemed to be quite a few of them at Dover on Sat but the lack of solidarity was notable.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:35
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Dead Goon posted:I'm hoping Young Ones. yup
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Apr 5, 2016 15:42
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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/05/yanis-varoufakis-why-we-must-save-the-eu Varoufakis says vote Yes to the UK staying in the EU
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Apr 5, 2016 15:45
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Oh thank goodness. Yeah pretty much Viv. I'm more of a Neil personally.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:45
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Oberleutnant posted:I've met a lot of Anarchists in the last few months and invariably they are the nicest most comradely people. I met some Anarchists when I flew to Europe for a Eurotrip type tour. Not a guide or packaged deal, just going around by myself. I paid for half of the trip with the wages I earned over the last two years, my dad paid for the other half. I am 19, I guess that is normal starting college and all. (Before that I worked for my dad's company part time, so I guess you could say he paid for all of it, lol). I did France and then Italy and then Greece next. I am an Ancap so I wanted to see anarchists in these places. Yes, I know they are different kinds of "anarchists" and not really full anarchists like us. I went to an anarchist book store in Italy and it had a lot of English books, but no Rothbard or Ancap. Like I said, I expected that, not a surprise. I went to Greece, which everyone knows is famous for its revolutionary anarchism, its economic crisis and everything going on right now. Here I found directions for a local anarchist center. I went and didn't see anybody, but it was covered in graffiti, mostly in Greek so I couldn't read it. Whatever, I started taking pictures. Then some people came out and confronted me. This should have been my first warning sign something was not right, because photography is not a crime. They were not violent, but they were not friendly, like asking who I was, what I wanted. They all spoke good English actually. Not uncommon in Greece. I said I was a tourist and an anarchist and I just wanted to take pictures. Then they got friendly and told me I should have asked first (but pictures are no NAP violation so I don't know why, but I didn't say anything) and they invited me inside. We hung out for a while and smoked hash (there is no good dank in Europe as you might find out like in Cali, everyone smokes hash with tobacco which isn't as cool as it sounds). We started talking about politics and anarchism. I was trying to talk about the state, they were like yeah no doubt the state was bad. But they wanted to talk about capitalism, capitalism this and that. This is when we started to get into a debate. I told them that what they called capitalism is different from the free market. They said capitalism is free markets. And I said I agreed. That is what I am saying. Real capitalism is free markets. And they said yes, that is what we are trying to get rid of. And I said no, but we don't even have that right now. We need more free markets. And everyone at the same time was like "nooo" we are anarchists, we are against capitalism. Anarchists oppose capitalism. And I said but not anarcho-capitalists. Anarcho-capitalists are the anarchists who support capitalism. I had a fanny pack (yeah, lame I know) for my camera and in that I had this yellow and black bowtie (also super lame, it was a joke but I wasnt wearing it). And I said look, these are the Ancap colors, yellow and black, like versus the communist red and black. Well, these guys had a lot of red and black in the building already so I thought they would get it. I think that is when it started to get a really bad vibe, really tense in the air. The free market thing was funny, we disagreed but I think they thought I was just confused. Everyone was uncomfortable now. Then someone said markets wont work with democracy. And I said exactly, that's it, democracy is against anarchism. And they kind of agreed, and said yes, we don't have real democracy, just governments, and we needed more democracy. I said no, we need less democracy, democracy is the enemy. And we need to end democracy to have anarchy. Then they were all like "noooo" again. You know that thing people do in groups when everyone all says "nooo" or expresses some disapproval at the same time. And one of them said "but we do want to stop democracy" and then they kind of spoke back and forth in Greek. I didn't really understand it. And they asked me what I meant. So I said okay, I had the floor, I was going to tell them about ancapism. And I tried to explain to them some Rothbard and Hoppe. I said the natural order in anarchy is that the best rise to the top, the market picks who is the best. They compete and are peaceful. They said what do we want instead of anarchy. I said we want private owners to own their own land and businesses, and to employ people. They said that is what we have now. I said no, it would be even better. One of the guys said it was like feudalism. And I said it is not feudalism. Eventually one of the guys spoke up and I thought he was Greek, but he spoke English perfectly so he may have not been. He said he knew what anarcho-capitalism was and that we were basically fascists. He asked me if I thought everything should be private. And I said yes. And he asked me if I thought people were unequal. And I told him yes. And that not everyone would have equal rights. I said everyone has the right to own property and not be done aggression against. But that not everyone had to be treated equally by the owners. He said what about immigrants and racism. And I said that would not happen in a free market, but yes property owners could be racist if they wanted to. They had to respect property. Then he called me a fascist again, and someone else said I was a fascist. And then they basically all started shouting fascist at me, and one of them grabbed me by the wrists. They pulled me out the door, it was up three floors, and basically drug me down the stairs on my back. It hurt really bad and I remember yelling "you're breaking the NAP" and things like that. "Stop initiating force against me." Then they kicked me around on the ground in the hallway, before they took my camera and threw me outside. I was crying and stuff, I just sat there. I was in shock because it was so sudden. Looking back there were warning signs though. I think they felt bad for me and gave the camera back, but when I looked later they stole the memory card with all of my Greek photos. So they initiated force and theft. They broke the NAP. I knew the left anarchists were not real anarchists, but I never knew they would do something that bad. I wasnt seriously hurt, just kicked around a little, lots of bruises and little cuts. I am fine guys so don't worry. Just needed to share.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:45
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That story will never not be beautiful. I don't care if it's fake it's perfect.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:46
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Tesseraction posted:That story will never not be beautiful. I don't care if it's fake it's perfect.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:51
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Iceland's PM has called for an election over M-F, why hasn't Mr Cameron? Is he busy having sex with animals? -JC, tomorrow, hopefully
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Apr 5, 2016 15:51
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I have liked most of the anarchists I have met but I dunno I kind of would like some large scale manufacturing and research sector and that doesn't seem like it could work. I don't think we'd have made it to the moon if we lived in little autonomous communes
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Apr 5, 2016 16:05
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What is the Anarchist position on the NHS?
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Apr 5, 2016 16:07
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Oberleutnant posted:I've met a lot of Anarchists in the last few months and invariably they are the nicest most comradely people. gently caress the SWP. I'd rather spend my time with anarchists who actually Do Something than those paper selling pricks.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:07
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