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Rey being Luke's daughter would just be weird. She's, what, six or so in the flashback? For that to work, Luke would have needed to have gone by another name from her birth to the time she was left on Jakku because she doesn't twig at all when Luke's name gets mentioned. Everyone's still calling him Luke and he was an active participant in the galaxy right up until he vanished, so that just seems odd. She also doesn't seem shocked when she sees him, as if she recognizes her father. Not saying it's not possible, but it'd take some twisting to get around. On the other hand, the stories revolve around Skywalkers and having her take up the lightsaber of her father and grandfather works. It's like poetry blah blah.
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Apr 6, 2016 03:44
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My favorite thing about Star War is fun characters, their interactions with one another, the action sequences and set pieces. It's a rich world that Lucas created. With that in mind TFA was a triumph.
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Apr 6, 2016 04:09
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Mortanis posted:Rey being Luke's daughter would just be weird. She's, what, six or so in the flashback? For that to work, Luke would have needed to have gone by another name from her birth to the time she was left on Jakku because she doesn't twig at all when Luke's name gets mentioned. Everyone's still calling him Luke and he was an active participant in the galaxy right up until he vanished, so that just seems odd. She also doesn't seem shocked when she sees him, as if she recognizes her father. He probably thinks she was dead from what we are shown in the flashback. And If I remember correctly, the order of the flashback makes it seem like Ben drops her off
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Apr 6, 2016 04:16
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Toilet Mouth posted:I feel pretty safe in guessing that if Rey has Skywalker DNA, then she wasn't conceived through conventional means. I can't see them telling us, "Luke had a wife/gf but you never met her and never will, so don't worry about it, also he's a deadbeat dad."  Big assumption here but if shes involved in the deathstar plans heist and survives the war, its very possible that she meets Luke afterwards. Viller fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Apr 6, 2016 |
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Apr 6, 2016 04:29
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AndyElusive posted:Can Sith even force ghost in Disney-canon? It could be like the Dagobah Cave: a vision.
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Apr 6, 2016 04:46
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The Tales of the Jedi/KOTOR comics sort of play with that too (are those still cannon?). It's not explicitly said but the Jedi force ghosts are like in the movies where they can basically appear and roll around to wherever but are ghosts. Sith ghosts are a thing but they are like super cazy powerful but are physically bound to a place or object important to their life and can't manifest at all unless someone is actively seeking out their presence. The opposite extreme of the "unlearning" and "letting go" we get all the time from Yoda. The Sith are generically evil in those comics but they did a good job differentiating how they operate from the Jedi to make both sides more interesting. TFA's lightsaber vision and Ren keeping Vader's helmet reminded me a lot of them. To the point where I assume in VIII we'll learn Vader's armor/remains were in repose somewhere in Luke's temple and that let Ren/Snoke/Luke/whoever get some brief vision or insight from Vader (whether he's good or not) that ended up making everything fall apart.
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Apr 6, 2016 06:02
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Rebels is supposedly as canon as the movies and they just introduced a sith holocron with some dead sith ghost in it. Palpatine could still happen.
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Apr 6, 2016 06:29
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No one cares about Canon. They can do whatever they want. I mean, they've already changed continuity multiple times whenever they felt like it. Caring about canon is always stupid, but with Star Wars it's also completely useless because the 'canon' changes arbitrarily all the time.
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Apr 6, 2016 07:13
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Hey guys could you please stop disturbing my canon i just got it the way I like it thanks
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Apr 6, 2016 07:21
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Then I hope they bring back the guy with light sabers on his knees and he ends up being Reys father because gently caress canon!
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Apr 6, 2016 07:30
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I wish you all would get shot out of a cannon
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Apr 6, 2016 07:32
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MonsieurChoc posted:No one cares about Canon. They can do whatever they want. Well, this isn't quite the same thing. The fact that the Sith Lords can't survive beyond death like the Jedi can is actually a pretty important thematic precept of the saga.
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Apr 6, 2016 08:18
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Mortanis posted:Rey being Luke's daughter would just be weird. She's, what, six or so in the flashback? For that to work, Luke would have needed to have gone by another name from her birth to the time she was left on Jakku because she doesn't twig at all when Luke's name gets mentioned. Everyone's still calling him Luke and he was an active participant in the galaxy right up until he vanished, so that just seems odd. She also doesn't seem shocked when she sees him, as if she recognizes her father. No cuz in KOTOR jedis can wipe your brains and stuff KOTOR is still legit right It's probably really easy on kids
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Apr 6, 2016 12:19
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It's just hard to piece together when you look at the nitty gritty. Why didn't kylo recognize her as his cousin. Why did her force vision freak her out so much. Why doesn't she know she's Lukes daughter. She knows who he is.
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Apr 6, 2016 13:20
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MonsieurChoc posted:No one cares about Canon. They can do whatever they want. There's only been two canon shake ups ever. The first back in the 90s when they decided to actually start caring about continuity and introducing the tiered hierarchy, he second recently when the old stuff became Legends and the new stuff became all on equal canonicity as the films.
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Apr 6, 2016 15:41
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http://uproxx.com/gammasquad/how-snoke-turned-kylo-ren-star-wars-the-force-awakens/2/Adam Driver posted:“There’s nothing more powerful than genetics. If you really imagine the stakes of him, in his youth, having all these special powers and having your parents kind of be absent during that process on their own agendas, equally as selfish. He’s lost in the world that he was raised in and feels that he was kind of abandoned by the people that he’s closest with. He’s angry because of that, I think, and he has a huge grudge on his shoulders.” J.J. Abrams posted:“It’s more than just having sort of a bad seed as a kid. Snoke had targeted this kid and knew that this kid was going to be incredibly powerful in The Force and wanted him as an ally. So this mother and father had a target for a son, someone who was watching their boy, and these parents aren’t there enough to guide him.” LOL it's literally exactly the same thing that happened with Anakin. How creative. Han and Leia suck so bad. They essentially hosed over the entire galaxy with their selfish parenting style. You can just feel the love and respect for the characters of the OT oozing out of every pore of this movie.
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Apr 6, 2016 16:54
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It makes a lot of sense that Han and Leia would be lovely parents, imo. Characterizing them as such in TFA shows due respect+understanding of the OT.
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Apr 6, 2016 16:57
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euphronius posted:It's just hard to piece together when you look at the nitty gritty. Why didn't kylo recognize her as his cousin. Why did her force vision freak her out so much. Why doesn't she know she's Lukes daughter. She knows who he is. But the alternative is that Anakin's lightsaber was calling to her, and gave her visions when she touched it, for no reason whatsoever. There's got to be something special about her beyond "she's really strong in the Force", because we've seen the Chosen One and his two kids when they were completely untrained in using the Force and they never experienced what she did with that lightsaber. Her being related to the Skywalkers would at least provide some explanation, even though Luke never experienced any visions that we're aware of when he touched that lightsaber.
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Apr 6, 2016 16:57
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Cat Machine posted:It makes a lot of sense that Han and Leia would be lovely parents, imo. Characterizing them as such in TFA shows due respect+understanding of the OT. The Han and Leia romance is about two very different people coming together and learning how to love each other unselfishly. The whole "Han and Leia's relationship was always doomed to failure" meme betrays such a deep misunderstanding of the OT that I have a hard time even quantifying it. So does anyone actually like the Han and Leia romance in the OT anymore? Because from what I'm hearing from people post-TFA, it's apparently just as dysfunctional as Anakin and Padme's relationship in the PT. So, the message of Star Wars: All romantic relationships are impossible and doomed to calamitous failure. There's no way to make it work, kids! Beeez posted:But the alternative is that Anakin's lightsaber was calling to her, and gave her visions when she touched it, for no reason whatsoever. There's got to be something special about her beyond "she's really strong in the Force", because we've seen the Chosen One and his two kids when they were completely untrained in using the Force and they never experienced what she did with that lightsaber. Her being related to the Skywalkers would at least provide some explanation, even though Luke never experienced any visions that we're aware of when he touched that lightsaber. I can't get over the fact that Rey opens a literal Mystery Box and is then bombarded by a series of vague, unexplained teaser material meant to serve as plot hooks for later movies. I have to assume this was at least somewhat self-aware on J.J.' s part, but that doesn't make it any better. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Apr 6, 2016 |
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Apr 6, 2016 17:01
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Cnut the Great posted:The Han and Leia romance is about two very different people coming together and learning how to love each other unselfishly. The whole "Han and Leia's relationship was always doomed to failure" meme betrays such a deep misunderstanding of the OT that I have a hard time even quantifying it. people can love each other and still not form a functional nuclear family together lots of people who aren't even outlaw space adventurers with zero stability in their lives gently caress that up
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Apr 6, 2016 17:06
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It works in the OT because it's just the two of them. You throw a kid into the mix, and yeah, of course Leia's going to be absent a lot, building this fledgling New Republic, and of course Han is going to start feeling too tied down and want to wander. Luke's off training Jedi, so who's left to raise Ben? Chewie and Threepio? No wonder he snapped.
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Apr 6, 2016 17:08
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Rey is Luke's daughter. Just as Anakin was born without a father via the Force, Rey was born without a mother. Luke carried Rey in his Force-womb.
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Apr 6, 2016 17:11
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it is a personal affront to me that anyone could believe that revolutionary leader whose whole family got blown up and the drug dealer who lives out of his van with his dog bro wouldn't succeed at settling down and finding a townhouse in a nice school district, despite their having bonded over getting abducted and blowing up government officials
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Apr 6, 2016 17:11
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He is a force marsupial. Forcupial.
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Apr 6, 2016 17:12
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Yeah there's absolutely zero indication in the OT that Leia and Han would have made good parents. I have never understood where you are seeing that, Cnut.
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Apr 6, 2016 17:15
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poo poo dude, just look at the old EU. No writer ever knew what the gently caress to do with Han after he and Leia got married and had kids. He's either a tag along to the story or they gave him another "hey lets go see what Lando's up to" plot. Han was garbage because they were trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. That character would never make a good father or even a good husband.
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Apr 6, 2016 17:16
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:people can love each other and still not form a functional nuclear family together Yeah, no poo poo. And Luke could have decided to murder his father and turn to the dark side. Lots of people try to do the right thing but ultimately fail and become villains. But that's not what happened, because the OT is an optimistic story about the way things should turn out. Unconditional love in Star Wars is inextricably connected to the concept of forming a family and raising children. If the family is not functional, the love was not functional. This is not because the Star Wars films are conservative polemics about the virtues of "traditional families", but because the story is a metaphor for larger truths about society.
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Apr 6, 2016 17:17
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Technically there's no reason to think Luke would be able to build a new Jedi Order either, but it still sucks that they went with "yeah he failed in almost the same manner as the PT Jedi did".
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Apr 6, 2016 17:18
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the OT is a self-contained mythic arc in which the heroes slay the dragon, get the girl, evil is vanquished forever, cut to credits. The protagonists are frozen in time forever at their greatest moment of triumph. In life, and in sequels, life has to continue, and you never stop having challenges. And there are no intact, stable families in Star Wars whatsoever so, uh, what
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Apr 6, 2016 17:21
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Big Mean Jerk posted:poo poo dude, just look at the old EU. No writer ever knew what the gently caress to do with Han after he and Leia got married and had kids. He's either a tag along to the story or they gave him another "hey lets go see what Lando's up to" plot. Han was garbage because they were trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. That character would never make a good father or even a good husband. He could make a good father and husband if people weren't so obsessed with having him act exactly like the cocky, smart-mouthed scoundrel he was in the OT. But you're right, that's not what the people want. They want that Han Solo. They don't want something unfamiliar. Do you really find it so hard to accept that a person like Han Solo could genuinely grow and change? Why does Star Wars have to be so cynical now? A Wizard of Goatse posted:the OT is a self-contained mythic arc in which the heroes slay the dragon, get the girl, evil is vanquished forever, cut to credits. The protagonists are frozen in time forever at their greatest moment of triumph. In life, and in sequels, life has to continue, and you never stop having challenges. Yes, but one assumes that the new challenges you have to face aren't a result of your own inability to grow as a human being, and that you didn't actively gently caress up and directly contribute to making things worse for your children. quote:And there are no intact, stable families in Star Wars whatsoever so, uh, what  You heard it here first. Star Wars has nothing to say about healthy, stable families or functional societies. What are these movies even about, anyway? Spaceships, right?
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Apr 6, 2016 17:31
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Cnut the Great posted:
pictured: two orphans, two isolated criminals, two robots, and two cannibals, thrown together by circumstance and finally getting along and not trying to kill each other in literally the last few minutes of the story
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Apr 6, 2016 17:35
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computer parts posted:Technically there's no reason to think Luke would be able to build a new Jedi Order either, but it still sucks that they went with "yeah he failed in almost the same manner as the PT Jedi did". It's implicit that he does. The movie is called Return of the Jedi. Luke is told to pass on what he has learned.The film ends with Luke draping his arm over his newly-discovered Force-sensitive sister's shoulder as the Jedi of the past smile and look on. The Jedi Temple reappears: 
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Apr 6, 2016 17:35
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Cnut the Great posted:He could make a good father and husband if people weren't so obsessed with having him act exactly like the cocky, smart-mouthed scoundrel he was in the OT. But you're right, that's not what the people want. They want that Han Solo. They don't want something unfamiliar. There's no place for Han post-Jedi. He's either a peacetime General or he goes back to smuggling. Leia's off politicking and Luke is doing Jedi stuff. Han has no experience with either. Then you give him a kid he doesn't know how to raise and expect him to be complacent and stable.
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Apr 6, 2016 17:37
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"I love the man I know I can make him into"
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Apr 6, 2016 17:38
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if you want your heroes to settle down and have happy, peaceful lives stop making stories about themMrMojok posted:"I love the man I know I can make him into"
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Apr 6, 2016 17:38
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:pictured: two orphans, two isolated criminals, two robots, and two cannibals, thrown together by circumstance and finally getting along and not trying to kill each other in literally the last few minutes of the story Wow, talk about a downer of an ending. Big Mean Jerk posted:"If Han completely changed his personality he might be a good father!" He doesn't have to completely change his personality! He just has to be responsible and not selfish! That's it! Like, do you understand this is not a documentary series? These are not real people. These are characters who are made to act in certain ways by the writers in order to express certain concepts and ideals. MrMojok posted:"I love the man I know I can make him into" Leia didn't make Han do anything. Han chose to be a better person on his own, because he independently realized that he didn't want to live the rest of his life being snide and selfish and alienating everyone he cared about. How can you be this bad at understanding a children's movie? I can't even imagine how dark a place the world must be for you people. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Apr 6, 2016 |
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Apr 6, 2016 17:40
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:if you want your heroes to settle down and have happy, peaceful lives stop making stories about them This guy gets it. Without family conflict, you don't have a story to tell.
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Apr 6, 2016 17:45
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Cnut the Great posted:Wow, talk about a downer of an ending. And if the writers are going to make characters act certain ways, I appreciate consistency. Han and Leia long each other, deciding to start a family, and then being not the greatest at it is extremely consistent with how they're portrayed previously.
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Apr 6, 2016 17:45
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Han did become Han-dad. He didn't go back to being Han until Ben became a |sith lord|
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Apr 6, 2016 17:47
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Cnut, if you really want stories where Han is a decent dad to his three boring kids, there's 15 years worth of novels for you to check out. Except for that one time Chewie died and Han became an abusive space-alcoholic who blamed the youngest son.
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Apr 6, 2016 17:47
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