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I used to be an honest healer cause that was my role in other rpgs. Once I got over that and accepted I can dps, it exponentially increased my fun. Dropping divine seal and then asylum, regeneration and medica 2 before swapping to cleric stance to drop some sick Holys is so satisfying. And you feel like a champ when you dance in and out to drop dps and cures as needed.
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Apr 7, 2016 14:16
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Simplest Ninja tips from a tired guy at 8am: 1. Is there a warrior in the group? If not, use Dancing Edge for the +10% slashing debuff. 2. Pre 52, use huton if you don't have its effects or if the effects will wear off soon. Post 52, keep the effects of huton active with an Armor Crush combo. 3. Area attacks: Katon, kassatsu, katon. Death Blossom and kiss TP goodbye. Recover with invigorate. 4. Have blood for blood and internal release. Also invigorate. 5. If you're using positionals, be in the right position. Get the most out of Aeolian Edge and Armor Crush! 6. Use Trick Attack on bosses and big monsters when Raiton isn't enough, and when there aren't enough enemies for a good katon. 7. G O A D
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Apr 7, 2016 14:26
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Examples of Honest Healers™:quote:No no no just no. If tanks doing less damage is slowing down runs it does NOT fall to the healers to pick up the slack. The DPS need to step up their game if it's going that slow. Healer dps is not required and saying someone is a bad healer for not dpsing is just dumb. quote:Healers are already struggling with accuracy checks, they can hit a few times now if they actually meld +acc materia but I doubt that is the devs design choice for healers. quote:
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Apr 7, 2016 14:35
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Ban anyone that complains about healer DPS when you have a perfectly live group that is not dead from a lack of healing. Ban healers that let their groups die due to lack of healing. Ban a few people inbetween to keep people on their toes. EVERYBODY WINS.
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Apr 7, 2016 14:57
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It should also be noted that "honest healers" are also invariably terrible at actually healing. They have no concept of the scope and strength of their toolkit so will do things like use their heavier heals against minor damage, not cleanse status effects, and prefer to heal bomb through strong dots rather than cleanse them. They'll also, as a result, run out of mana in any fight that takes longer than a few minutes. Which is basically their real gripe: rather than admit they're kind of crap at their job and try to figure out why, they'd prefer that good healers be forcibly dragged down to their level in the deluded hope that they'd be labeled as "good" too.
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Apr 7, 2016 15:10
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Burn My Dread posted:Examples of Honest Healers™: These sad attempts at logic hurt my brain. 
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Apr 7, 2016 15:30
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The Grimace posted:Simplest Ninja tips from a tired guy at 8am: Which jobs do you have to level for B4B and Invigorate?
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Apr 7, 2016 15:31
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SonicRulez posted:Which jobs do you have to level for B4B and Invigorate? lancer to 22 for invigorate, 34 for blood for blood
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Apr 7, 2016 15:40
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The Grimace posted:Simplest Ninja tips from a tired guy at 8am: If there are 3+ targets that will survive the full duration and you trust the tank to hold them still, use Katon > Kassatsu > Doton instead for AoE. That said, don't be the ninja who drops Doton under a lone boss. While spamming Death Blossom, don't forget to check your Huton status so you can refresh it with an Armor Crush combo if needed.
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Apr 7, 2016 15:50
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Burn My Dread posted:Examples of Honest Healers™: That last one...... 
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Apr 7, 2016 16:04
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To me this is the honest healer: - Doesn't DPS, or if they do, it's without cleric stance on. This is a given. When asked to do so, they respond with "that's not my role. Did the party not die? Then I did my job." - Yells at the tank when the tank drops their tank stance in favor of their DPS stance because it makes them harder to heal. - Basically operates like a FF12 gambit: If tank health < 70%, then cast cure. If < 40%, cure 2, etc. - In burn periods, they spend their time casting stoneskin on everyone. - They do regen / medica 2 before a pull and end up getting all the aggro. - They never use divine seal. Or presence of mind. Or any cooldown really. I've gotten to the point where I do trial roulettes, and straight up at the end tell healers I'm not comming them because they didn't cast a single DPS spell and then leave. It's me, I'm the rear end in a top hat.
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Apr 7, 2016 16:05
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Don't ever play with pugs
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Apr 7, 2016 16:17
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Burn My Dread posted:Examples of Honest Healers™: Oh my god the sheer pedantry of that last one broke me a bit. Honest question, what about the other side of the coin? What's expected of an actually effective tank nowadays, with the changes in 3.2, be it in experts or whatever? Is it fair for the DRK to leave Grit on or the WAR to stay in Defiance?
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Apr 7, 2016 16:19
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sword_man.gif posted:healers who not only don't go into cleric stance but act like assholes to ones who do and campaign to have it removed because "you rolled a healer, do nothing but heal" Makes sense considering CNJ gets stone and Aero early on
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Apr 7, 2016 16:22
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Ciaphas posted:Oh my god the sheer pedantry of that last one broke me a bit. It's still a 200+ dps swing to drop out of tank stance and tanks should only be in tanking stance when they need to be.
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Apr 7, 2016 16:26
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Ciaphas posted:Oh my god the sheer pedantry of that last one broke me a bit. The simplest advice I can give is: Tank stance for trash packs (and pull as big as the group can handle), DPS stance for bosses once you have a threat lead. Rotating cooldowns effectively should easily make up for the squishiness of not being in tank stance
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Apr 7, 2016 16:27
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Chyea posted:Don't ever play with pugs Yeah, well, when you need to get that last duty roulette in before you need to go to sleep and no one in your FC / linkshells want to run it, you gotta make some tough choices. TooManyUzukis posted:The simplest advice I can give is: Tank stance for trash packs (and pull as big as the group can handle), DPS stance for bosses once you have a threat lead. Rotating cooldowns effectively should easily make up for the squishiness of not being in tank stance This is good advice, but I'll add something to it. DRKs and WARs do have reasons to leave tank stances for trash pulls. DRKs can use blood weapon to up their DPS and get more MP out of grit. WARs can use decimate in deliverance, which is 80 potency higher than steel cyclone (no enmity generation though). Also, a stronger attack means recovering a little bit more health via bloodbath.
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Apr 7, 2016 16:41
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war should absolutely be in deliverance for bloodbath+overpower spam.
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Apr 7, 2016 16:51
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i dont mind honest healers that much because if i dont see any dps coming from them in the first two pulls or so ill do the rest of the dungeon in deliverance or with grit off and do big multi pulls. (party comp permitting) If they want to only heal im going to oblige them. Kuvo fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Apr 7, 2016 |
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Apr 7, 2016 16:52
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As a tank, be in DPS stance so long as it won't get you killed (use your cooldowns) and you won't lose threat (watch your threat). Which basically means starting in tank stance, getting a nice threat lead, popping into DPS stance at a suitable point, and occasionally popping back into tank stance if your threat and/or survivability are at risk. Generally survivability is the non-issue here (though if you pull like 4 trash packs, it can be), so it's really mostly a question of threat. Which in turn has a lot more to do with the quality of your DPS. The better they are, the more they make you work for your threat, and that'll cut into your own damage. (However, this scenario also means that you've got really good DPS, so you still come out ahead.) Healer threat is occasionally an issue but usually only if they're both heavily (over)healing and heavily DPSing.
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Apr 7, 2016 17:02
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Getting called out for DPSing as a healer is frustrating. Especially if it's in a Full Party and it's the other healer calling you out. Between their honest actions and the fairy there's nothing else for me to do so yeah I'll DPS and make it go quicker and also be you know, fun. For some people, this is utterly unacceptable.
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Apr 7, 2016 17:06
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Just ask "has anyone died yet?" and keep dpsing. Chances are good that they'll get frustrated and try to get themselves killed.
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Apr 7, 2016 17:13
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If I toss out damage spells without CS sometimes, it's because I don't heal often and am terrified that I'll accidentally double click CS right before a damage spike and wipe us oh god  I don't really have an excuse for forgetting that Divine Seal and Presence of Mind exist, though.
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Apr 7, 2016 17:14
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I think there's a problem with the screaming at healers to dps in this thread which is occasionally I get a dps who's trying to offheal in a roulette from our guild who tries to start every pull in cleric stance and watches me get pasted through tank stance and all of my cooldowns while I get one heal from Selene. Heal FIRST, dps when it's SAFE. If the tank's pulled 3 packs, he's gonna need you to bomb heals on him until a couple things die, then you can add your aoe to the pile and it's all good. Feel it out for a few pulls and see if he's undergeared and needs more attention or if you can drop a regen on him and go hog wild with the holy's.
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Apr 7, 2016 17:15
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Fister Roboto posted:Just ask "has anyone died yet?" and keep dpsing. Chances are good that they'll get frustrated and try to get themselves killed. I just /laugh-ed at them and kept going.
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Apr 7, 2016 17:17
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I've also seen 'respectful tanks' for tanks that don't do big pulls even though they massively outgear the content.
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Apr 7, 2016 17:23
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well multi pulling does disrespect the content
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Apr 7, 2016 17:26
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Question for you HW Monks: during sustained DPS periods, should I be weaving in Meditation charges to use Forbidden Chakra again, or is it too much of a DPS loss and I should only do it during downtime between phases/pulls?
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Apr 7, 2016 17:32
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mistaya posted:I think there's a problem with the screaming at healers to dps in this thread which is occasionally I get a dps who's trying to offheal in a roulette from our guild who tries to start every pull in cleric stance and watches me get pasted through tank stance and all of my cooldowns while I get one heal from Selene. Holy stuns everything. There's no reason whatsoever to not just pop a regen on the tank, flip on CS, swiftcast holy, presence of mind, and pump out 2-3 more. Even without presence up, you can still get 3 holies off before stuns are completely burned through and you need to switch back to healing.
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Apr 7, 2016 17:32
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There's no reason not to toss an Aero 3 or Shadow Flare near the start of a pull. If the tank is going to die in one GCD there's nothing a healer could have done to save them.
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Apr 7, 2016 17:37
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That too.
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Apr 7, 2016 17:39
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The tanks I hate the most are the jittery tanks who make it really hard to tell when they're going to stop moving all the mobs around. Just let me drop my shadow flare you dick!  And don't get me started on the tanks that move the mobs out of my bishop turrets range. Especially when i move the turret to where they went and they move AGAIN.
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Apr 7, 2016 17:45
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Coughing Hobo posted:Question for you HW Monks: during sustained DPS periods, should I be weaving in Meditation charges to use Forbidden Chakra again, or is it too much of a DPS loss and I should only do it during downtime between phases/pulls? Using Chakra still triggers a (slightly shorter) global cool down which prevents use of other skills. If you have the option to be hitting a boss, building Chakra stacks is a DPS loss. Basically every raid boss and quite a few dungeon bosses have phases where they aren't able to be damaged, so use that time to build Chakra. Don't forget Form Shift to retain your Greased Lightning through shorter transitions, too.
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Apr 7, 2016 17:49
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Coughing Hobo posted:Question for you HW Monks: during sustained DPS periods, should I be weaving in Meditation charges to use Forbidden Chakra again, or is it too much of a DPS loss and I should only do it during downtime between phases/pulls? It's downtime only unless you absolutely must weave in Meditation charges. It's a huge dps loss to, but not as huge as being out of TP for an extended amount of time. There's very few fights in the game where I've found myself forced to weave Meditation (A4S final phase because our MCH was locked into playing mana for the healers that suicide).
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Apr 7, 2016 17:49
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If you were only able to build up four stacks during downtime, it's worth doing to get that final one.
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Apr 7, 2016 17:56
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Thanks for the responses. I figured that was the case just based on my own play at lv60 especially as I start getting up in the ilevels, but it's nice to have some confirmation.
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Apr 7, 2016 17:56
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Oxygen Deficiency posted:The tanks I hate the most are the jittery tanks who make it really hard to tell when they're going to stop moving all the mobs around. Just let me drop my shadow flare you dick! I'm trying to dodge aoes. put down your shadowflare and I'll get the mobs in it. If there isn't a ground aoe, I'm not to worried about keeping them all in one spot for casters.
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Apr 7, 2016 17:56
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Positive posted:It's downtime only unless you absolutely must weave in Meditation charges. It's a huge dps loss to, but not as huge as being out of TP for an extended amount of time. There's very few fights in the game where I've found myself forced to weave Meditation. This. There are a few fights, like A2S, where using some Meditates as you move around between targets is really important for TP maintenance and you may need to sacrifice a GCD here or there if you didn't get the chance to fully charge up a Purification. But for the most part the only time you should be using Meditate is if there is nothing to punch.
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Apr 7, 2016 17:56
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I'm not talking about one gcd I'm talking about 4-5 seconds. And people who are new to healing need to learn THAT part of the role first. I love it when I can gravity-spam on my AST in dungeons, healer DPS is good and valuable, but knowing when it's safe to DPS is important too, and the group wiping because you didn't heal is worse than the pack taking an extra 30 seconds to die because you didn't DPS. Honestly 1 gcd plenty of time to save a tank on AST or SCH since they both have instant save buttons, I don't play WHM so not sure about them. Re: jittery tanks, there's certain mobs that are just rear end to keep in one spot because they spam conals or puddles, like those loving gremlins in Lost City HM. Most of the time things shouldn't be moving that much though.
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Apr 7, 2016 18:02
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 17:47 |
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I don't mind DPSing as a healer, what gets me as how clunky it is between GCD/Cleric Stance/targeting. Shame that Warhammer Online's defensive and offensive targeting system didn't spill over to more games, would make me enjoy healing a bit more.
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Apr 7, 2016 18:04
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