Eastern Europe: Olivier's sphere of influence

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Eastern Europe: Olivier's sphere of influence

suck my woke dick: Oct 10, 2012; I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

anilEhilated posted:

I've read it only on one news server, but Poland apparently wants back 368 hectares of territory they lost to Czech Rep during border adjustment in 1958. Is that a joke or is Poland really that butthurt about it?

quote:

The server it's on isn't very reliable and there's no date in the article, so that feels kinda weird; on the other hand, the current Polish government seems capable of just about anything.

You answered your own question, and yeah, countries absolutely can get into stupid slapfights about 3.68km� of land.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 11:53

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# ? May 9, 2024 21:15

grate deceiver: Jul 10, 2009; Just a funny av. Not a redtext or an own ok.

anilEhilated posted:

I've read it only on one news server, but Poland apparently wants back 368 hectares of territory they lost to Czech Rep during border adjustment in 1958. Is that a joke or is Poland really that butthurt about it?

The server it's on isn't very reliable and there's no date in the article, so that feels kinda weird; on the other hand, the current Polish government seems capable of just about anything.

Apparently it was the Czech government's proposal and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is negotiating with them or something(?). The local governments on both sides are pissed, because no one let them know anything in advance. Kinda funny/sad, since this whole procedure started in like 2010.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 12:21

Lichtenstein: May 31, 2012; It'll make sense, eventually.

It's either pulled out of someone's rear end or a random remark some crazy D-list politician made. It's not a recognizable thing any of the usual suspects ever talks about.

In other news, Polsat officially responded to the Wolf of Wall Street sillyness, saying the poor plucky television was forbidden by the law to show the uncensored version before 23:00, while the movie was too long for that time slot (inluding the extra hour for commercial break slots). The limitation may or may not be true, the regulation on such poo poo is a schizophrenic mess, not unlike the MPAA rating dumbness.

The version showed was indeed the US mormon cut, so they might as well have cheaped out or hosed up, but at least they've denied this being a PiS-morality kind of a deal.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 12:54

A Pale Horse: Jul 29, 2007

Dastardly Bohemians will give back our clay or else...

:poland:

# ? Apr 7, 2016 13:11

Anne Frank Funk: Nov 4, 2008

�One day the great European War will come out of some damned foolish thing in the Eastern Europe thread�

# ? Apr 7, 2016 13:21

Palpek: Dec 27, 2008; Do you feel it, Zach?
My coffee warned me about it.

anilEhilated posted:

I've read it only on one news server, but Poland apparently wants back 368 hectares of territory they lost to Czech Rep during border adjustment in 1958. Is that a joke or is Poland really that butthurt about it?

The server it's on isn't very reliable and there's no date in the article, so that feels kinda weird; on the other hand, the current Polish government seems capable of just about anything.

Lichtenstein posted:

It's either pulled out of someone's rear end or a random remark some crazy D-list politician made. It's not a recognizable thing any of the usual suspects ever talks about.

This isn't a new thing and it's real. Those negotiotations have been taking place since 1992 but nobody really wants to have anything to do with them so it mostly stays out of the media. I think I last read about it a year ago.

It's not enough land for anybody to care about but both countries can't seem to find an agreement on the compensation. Czech Republic doesn't want to give the strip of land in question back because it belongs to one of the smallest Czech counties, Poland doesn't want to accept money for it because well, it's land - Czech Republic proposes to give a different strip of land back, Poland accepts but now good luck choosing a county that should lose land for no reason and which would be still equally worth etc. So the whole thing goes through local politics hell and hangs in the air despite the laughable subject matter but it involves foreign politics so nobody wants to say 'eh, gently caress it'.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 13:28

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Can't post for 3 hours!; Soiled Meat

A Pale Horse posted:

Dastardly Bohemians will give back our clay or else...

Heh, you know how it ended the last time you tried. :smug:

# ? Apr 7, 2016 13:29

alex314: Nov 22, 2007

Time to reclaim bones of st. Wojciech. Deus Vult!

# ? Apr 7, 2016 14:04

Rincewinds: Jul 30, 2014; MEAT IS MEAT

Goods news everyone, Putin, in his eternal wisdom, have decided to make a new national guard consisting of a few hundred thousands troops with heavy equipment, who will be answerable only to the president and with a license to kill without warning. These troops will deal with terrorists, but also maintain public order in case of large scale protests, and it's a complete coincidence that this happens a few months before the elections.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35975840

# ? Apr 7, 2016 16:33

Radio Prune: Feb 19, 2010

How much stuff has Wikileaks leaked regarding Russia, leading figures within the Russian state, or related to Russia's international allies?

# ? Apr 7, 2016 16:40

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

Rincewinds posted:

Goods news everyone, Putin, in his eternal wisdom, have decided to make a new national guard consisting of a few hundred thousands troops with heavy equipment, who will be answerable only to the president and with a license to kill without warning. These troops will deal with terrorists, but also maintain public order in case of large scale protests, and it's a complete coincidence that this happens a few months before the elections.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35975840

Anyone else getting strong SS vibes?

# ? Apr 7, 2016 16:42

Lawman 0: Aug 17, 2010

anilEhilated posted:

Anyone else getting strong SS vibes?

Sounds more like he is setting up a republican (imperial) guard.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 16:57

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Radio Prune posted:

How much stuff has Wikileaks leaked regarding Russia, leading figures within the Russian state, or related to Russia's international allies?

A glance at wikipedia's history of wikileaks releases is all I've done, so others can answer this question more thoroughly. That said, it looks like Assange talked about leaking something adverse to the Kremlin's interests in late 2010, and then gave the info to Novaya Gazeta-I can't tell if it ever materialized. The word "Russia" doesn't come up in any of their material.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 17:04

Palpek: Dec 27, 2008; Do you feel it, Zach?
My coffee warned me about it.

anilEhilated posted:

Anyone else getting strong SS vibes?

SS? More like NKVD and Putin can use the same forms lying around in Stalin's old cupboards, just change a few names and dates.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 17:05

alex314: Nov 22, 2007

There's no way he can create a new formation 100k strong, not to mention 400k with heavy weapons. Maybe he'll join various Interior Ministry and similar forces and then add an armoured brigade.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 17:25

Paladinus: Jan 11, 2014; heyHEYYYY!!!

Palpek posted:

SS? More like NKVD and Putin can use the same forms lying around in Stalin's old cupboards, just change a few names and dates.

KGB is NKVD, though. This new thing is completely different.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 17:31

suck my woke dick: Oct 10, 2012; I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

Rincewinds posted:

Goods news everyone, Putin, in his eternal wisdom, have decided to make a new national guard consisting of a few hundred thousands troops with heavy equipment, who will be answerable only to the president and with a license to kill without warning. These troops will deal with terrorists, but also maintain public order in case of large scale protests, and it's a complete coincidence that this happens a few months before the elections.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35975840

# ? Apr 7, 2016 17:40

Murgos: Oct 21, 2010; Can't post for 11 hours!

alex314 posted:

There's no way he can create a new formation 100k strong, not to mention 400k with heavy weapons. Maybe he'll join various Interior Ministry and similar forces and then add an armoured brigade.

He's taking a huge amount of troop from some constitutionally constituted authority (including I suppose their logistics and requisitions capabilities?) and putting under his direct authority via his best bud, long time body guard and former KGB officer?

Yeah, this sounds good.

What about air & armor assets? Have we heard anything about that?

# ? Apr 7, 2016 17:58

Rincewinds: Jul 30, 2014; MEAT IS MEAT

It will supposedly include tanks, artillery and helicopters, I guess the navy and the air force will get to keep most of their toys.

Edit: It will also take over the OMON force, so no more reversed images of russian security forces.

quote:

The idea of creating a National Guard (NG) for Russia bringing together public security forces under a single command has been raised periodically and always abandoned for very good reasons, not least the lack of any apparent need to have a Praetorian Guard on steroids. In 2012, for example, I didn�t think it likely: it would upend the balance of power within the security agencies, create a monster, and not really meet any true security need.

So what does it say that Putin today announced that such a natsgvardiya was going to be formed? After a meeting with security luminaries include MVD Interior Troops commander (and new NG head) Viktor Zolotov � a trusted ex-bodyguard � he announced [my translation]:

Decisions have been made: we are creating a new federal executive body on the basis of the Interior Troops � creating the National Guard, which will handle the fight against terrorism, the fight against organised crime, and in close cooperation with the Ministry of Internal Affairs, will continue to perform those functions which are [currently] performed by the OMON (riot police), SOBR (SWAT) and so on.

We will arrange, as we discussed with the Interior Minister [Vladimir Kolokoltsev], not only in the decree, but in a future federal law, so that there will be no discord in order to get everything working smoothly and clearly. I hope very much that the troops of the National Guard will effectively perform their tasks, as has been the case up now, and that they will strengthen the work on the areas that are considered priorities.

The NG will thus also take over the OMON and SOBR, making it a powerful paramilitary security force, with elements right across the country.

Meanwhile, the Federal Drugs Control Service (FSKN) and Federal Migration Service (FMS) will be brought under the MVD (Ministry of Internal Affairs), albeit remaining separate services. (Again, an idea which had been mooted before.) This may be a consolation prize for Kolokoltsev but appears, unsurprisingly, to have been a bitter pill for FSKN chief Viktor Ivanov, moving from independent director to ministerial subordinate.

The creation of a National Guard is a big deal. We await details, but here are a few first observations:

1. No discussion, no lead time. As with so many crucial decisions, this came essentially unheralded, underlining the extent to which policy comes from a small, tight circle around Putin. It is not just that they have good operational security; they also clearly see no reason to prepare the public in advance. This is just the way politics goes these days.

2. Big worries in a little circle. There is no real reason for creating the NG out of the Interior Troops (VV) and other forces unless you have a serious worry about public unrest. Let�s be clear, whatever Putin says the militarised security forces of the VV and now NG have little real role fighting crime or terrorism; they are public security forces, riot and insurrection control and deterrence assets. The OMON and SOBR do play a certain role, but detaching them from the investigations elements of the MVD actually reduces their value in fighting crime. (And the MVD will likely have to recreate some kind of SWAT forces of its own.)

3. Putin�s Own. The NG, as a federal agency, will be directly subordinated to the government, without a minister in the way. With Zolotov at its head, then it is even more clearly a personal, presidential Praetorian force, under a maximalist loyalist. This may not only be a force to keep the masses in check, but also the elite.

4. Upsetting the power ministry balance. In the past, there was a key desire to retain a degree of balance between the various security agencies. The MVD has now been weakened (and having the FMS and FSKN is by no means enough of a recompense), and the Federal Security Service (FSB) has a more direct rival in the domestic security stakes.

Postscript, 6 April: I see from the text of the law that FGUP Okhrany, the private security corporation of the MVD, is being transferred to the NG. This is a major blow to the MVD, as it made quite a bit of revenue for them. It also raises questions about the future of the Vnevedomstvennaya okhrana, the police�s private security department, which was often a good way for cops to do some paid overtime and eke out their salaries. Will they still be able to do this? If not, then that may well be a further encouragement to more petty and predatory corruption by cops seeing their real wages shrink (as bonuses have also already been cut) and options legally to make up the shortfall vanish�

https://inmoscowsshadows.wordpress.com/2016/04/05/putins-new-national-guard-what-does-it-say-when-you-need-your-own-personal-army/

Rincewinds fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Apr 7, 2016

# ? Apr 7, 2016 18:07

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

alex314 posted:

There's no way he can create a new formation 100k strong, not to mention 400k with heavy weapons. Maybe he'll join various Interior Ministry and similar forces and then add an armoured brigade.

Yeah, interior ministry interior troops and a bunch of other stuff. It's actually pretty similar to how Ukrainian National Guard was formed.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 18:11

redscare: Aug 14, 2003

OddObserver posted:

Yeah, interior ministry interior troops and a bunch of other stuff. It's actually pretty similar to how Ukrainian National Guard was formed.

They're all but copying Ukraine and there is not a big enough :ironicat:

to illustrate it

# ? Apr 7, 2016 21:41

redscare: Aug 14, 2003

Edit: double post

# ? Apr 7, 2016 21:41

A Pale Horse: Jul 29, 2007

A survey showing how much Poles like people of other nations was released and surprise! We don't really like anyone! Except maybe the Czechs! I don't know why either!

The title says: Relation of Poles to Nations and Ethnic Groups

The columns are Green: Sympathy, Grey: Indifference, Red: Dislike, Blue: Hard to Say

I think most of you can figure out what the ethnic groups being referred to are. I'll just say Wlosi are Italians, Niemcy are Germans and Zydzi are Jews because those don't look that similar to other countries names in non moonspeak.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 22:18

Lichtenstein: May 31, 2012; It'll make sense, eventually.

A Pale Horse posted:

A survey showing how much Poles like people of other nations was released and surprise! We don't really like anyone! Except maybe the Czechs! I don't know why either!

Beer. And, to a lesser degree, weed.

I`m kind of impressed by Jews reaching twice the standing of Romas! Baby steps, Poland.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 22:29

Rinkles: Oct 24, 2010; What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?

The Arab hate is probably a recent development?

# ? Apr 7, 2016 22:38

Gantolandon: Aug 19, 2012

Rinkles posted:

The Arab hate is probably a recent development?

Yup. There are almost no Arabs in Poland and there never was a significant amount of them to be noticeable (except maybe for Syrians who sometimes studied in PRL). All that hate appeared out of nowhere after 9/11 and the appearance of ISIS cranked it up to 11.

Edit: As for Romanians appearing pretty low on the list, it's because plenty of Poles can't distinguish them from Romas.

Gantolandon fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Apr 7, 2016

# ? Apr 7, 2016 22:50

Lichtenstein: May 31, 2012; It'll make sense, eventually.

While I'd say they were never particularly popular around here, actually giving a poo poo about them is a combination of refugee crisis flavor of the ~~month~~ year and global post-9/11 zeitgeist.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 22:50

Lichtenstein: May 31, 2012; It'll make sense, eventually.

Fun fact is, pretty much each and every recent anti-arab march/semi-riot in the capital resulted in peak kebab sales, as shouting and misbehaving for seral hours to be rather tiring.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 22:53

burnishedfume: Mar 8, 2011; You really are a louse...

While #7 is still high, I'm surprised Hungarians aren't higher, with PiS wanting Poland to become Super Hungary.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 23:21

Palpek: Dec 27, 2008; Do you feel it, Zach?
My coffee warned me about it.

DrProsek posted:

While #7 is still high, I'm surprised Hungarians aren't higher, with PiS wanting Poland to become Super Hungary.

It's because only PiS loves Orban, there is literally nobody in the street going "oh boy, why can't we be more like Hungary" no matter how conservative. It's such a non-existing sentiment that it's not even funny.

The positive connotations with Hungary are more deep-rooted and have nothing to do with its current government:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pole_and_Hungarian_cousins_be

# ? Apr 7, 2016 23:41

burnishedfume: Mar 8, 2011; You really are a louse...

Palpek posted:

It's because only PiS loves Orban, there is literally nobody in the street going "oh boy, why can't we be more like Hungary" no matter how conservative. It's such a non-existing sentiment that it's not even funny.

The positive connotations with Hungary are more deep-rooted and have nothing to do with its current government:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pole_and_Hungarian_cousins_be

I often forget my very conservative family that loves Duda, Orban, and all things PiS is actually not indicative at all of Poland overall.

Also, yeah thinking back, that list is far easier explained by Poles having deep historical and cultural ties to places like Hungary and Czech Republic than Poles wanting Poland to be more like CR, USA, and Hungary all at once (but also be nothing like Turkey)

# ? Apr 8, 2016 00:57

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

https://twitter.com/GrahamWP_UK/status/718173045228191745

# ? Apr 8, 2016 02:31

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

What's the UN division that deal with sex tourism?

# ? Apr 8, 2016 03:29

Young Freud: Nov 26, 2006

HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:

https://twitter.com/GrahamWP_UK/status/718173045228191745

Who's he reporting to, the Under-Secretary of the Department of the Circular File?

# ? Apr 8, 2016 03:44

Kopijeger: Feb 14, 2010

It's funny how high "Włosi" are on the list. I'm guessing that is because it is perceived as the homeland of the Church and all that, but it is still strange that it would affect the average person's view of the inhabitants.

# ? Apr 8, 2016 06:54

Palpek: Dec 27, 2008; Do you feel it, Zach?
My coffee warned me about it.

Eh, Italy is seen as separate from the Vatican although them having the same religion is a factor. However I'd argue it's more about the positive and friendly image of Italians on TV shows (some of them being stars on reality TV), the popularity of Italian food and Italy being a beloved holiday destination. There's also this idea of a "handsome romantic Italian" that a lot of women have a soft spot for. Also they aren't our neighbors which helps a lot :v:

# ? Apr 8, 2016 07:13

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Can't post for 3 hours!; Soiled Meat

Yeah, and even the negative stereotypes about Italy are cool.
" Mafia? You mean like in the godfather? Sign me in!"

# ? Apr 8, 2016 07:48

Guildencrantz: May 1, 2012; Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.

A Pale Horse posted:

Dastardly Bohemians will give back our clay or else...

# ? Apr 8, 2016 08:32

alex314: Nov 22, 2007

I hope lovely TV shows start showing Romanians because not only all Romanians I've met were cool people their language sounds way better than Italian.

# ? Apr 8, 2016 08:50

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# ? May 9, 2024 21:15

Paladinus: Jan 11, 2014; heyHEYYYY!!!

Guildencrantz posted:

Rrrrrrgh, I'm so mad I'm not Polish, God drat it, loving Pol�ci!

# ? Apr 8, 2016 09:05

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