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Playing Imperial Navy now. I kinda said gently caress nova cannons and am making the Gothic my first cruiser. Am I wrong?
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Apr 9, 2016 01:22
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I said that too. Then immediately regretted it and have nova cannons on everything I can
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Apr 9, 2016 01:25
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I wonder how Tau would play. Aren't their ships stupidly overpowered and come with a gently caress ton of railguns?
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Apr 9, 2016 01:29
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Demiurge4 posted:I wonder how Tau would play. Aren't their ships stupidly overpowered and come with a gently caress ton of railguns? In my experience they were actually pretty poo poo.
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Apr 9, 2016 01:40
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I'm currently in the middle of refitting all my ork ships to carry Nova kannons just to gently caress with imperials and chaos.
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Apr 9, 2016 01:41
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Sgt. Anime Pederast posted:I'm currently in the middle of refitting all my ork ships to carry Nova kannons just to gently caress with imperials and chaos. MOIND GAMEZ!!!! It's so much loving fun.
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Apr 9, 2016 01:42
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Demiurge4 posted:I wonder how Tau would play. Aren't their ships stupidly overpowered and come with a gently caress ton of railguns? Not really. Basically they generally have two weak broadsides that can be combined to form one decent wad of firepower off the nose, and some launch bays. Individually they're pretty scary but they can't do damage the way imperials can if they can get off both broadsides, they need the sheer mass of fighters/bombers/torps they can get out.
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Apr 9, 2016 01:46
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Excelsiortothemax posted:I said that too. Then immediately regretted it and have nova cannons on everything I can After seeing how poo poo the spread are on torps, dominators for cruiser it is.
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Apr 9, 2016 01:50
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hemale in pain posted:you don't really want to use it at range... jump it in with an overlord at knife fighting range with 3k armour penetration. your broadsides will outmatch theres if they're bringing mars. Well yeah. The Mars is a light carrier, not a gunboat. The problem is though if you are doing all your fighting at 3k (and the enemy is polite enough to actually let you), why bring an Overlord at all? You may as well bring a Dominator and save on the points since it would do much the same thing. The problem with the Overlord and the Retribution is that you pay for long range cannon batteries that cannot seem to hit a drat thing at long range. The range scales up but the accuracy does not. This is made worse by one of the key upgrades for Macro Cannons (AP Rounds) also being jammed at 3k giving no fucks if its being fired out of a 6k cannon or 12k+ one. The Targeting Matrix also doesn't seem to negate this issue too much at all with 9k+ accuracy seeming to be about the 30% mark. Add to this the fact such cannons in the Imperial Navy are stuck on clunky, slow ships. Chaos can get away cherry-tapping the enemy to death with long range inaccurate fire as they have the speed and manoeuvrability to back it up and keep the dance going. If you want a long range Imperial ship that can actually hit something, you have to stick to your Gothic (which performs decently as a sniper ship) or carriers like the Mars/Emperor. At least until the devs add the Armageddon class Battlecruiser and the Apocalypse class Battleship.
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Apr 9, 2016 01:55
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The game systems and designs in TT were never intended to have macros be short range weapons and lances be long range weapons to the degree that they are now, and a lot of ships are getting hosed by it.
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Apr 9, 2016 02:00
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I had no idea plasma batteries were so bad though. i guess 99% of people are terrible because i've just been winning with gold plated fleets of overlords + light cruisers. I guess i'll switch to dominators. hemale in pain fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Apr 9, 2016 |
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Apr 9, 2016 02:01
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Demiurge4 posted:I wonder how Tau would play. Aren't their ships stupidly overpowered and come with a gently caress ton of railguns? Tau have decent firepower which is very accurate at long range as long as they have a certain type of escort close to them. They can focus their broadsides forward and have a special shield-type which makes their front armour very strong. They have lots of turrets, their strike craft are also pretty good, and most importantly of all their torpedoes are guided, all of which allows them to smash their enemies at long range. Which they absolutely must do because they combine the fragility of Chaos and Eldar with the speed and maneuverability of Imperial Navy. Not good. If the other races can bring their broadsides to bear the Tau will suffer badly. They also utterly suck at boarding.
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Apr 9, 2016 02:07
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Demiurge4 posted:I wonder how Tau would play. Aren't their ships stupidly overpowered and come with a gently caress ton of railguns? Standard tau fleet: Slow, weak defenses, gently caress-tons of ordnance. Their big ship was basically a dedicated carrier, and the other neat thing was their torpedoes had guidance and variable speed. Mostly they wanted to stay at stand-off range and send wave after wave of bombers. Overall I think it was pretty agreed on that they were the weakest fleet in TT and had the worst models too. Forgeworld fleet: Forgeworld made some dope minis and a new ruleset for them, with slightly better results. Pulled back on the ordnance theme and made them more well-rounded. They still had the problem of being kinda bland in play. Mo real gimmick other than darken the sky with ordnance and the neato Demiurge cruiser. Of all the races, they'd be the ones that I'd say would be well suited for a complete overhaul to put into the game. Tau would be the ones that could have a "support" ship with healing or buffs and be thematically appropriate.
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Apr 9, 2016 02:11
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Oh man I forgot about the Demiurge ships. If they make it to Armada, getting supercharged as they fly through asteroid fields would be so fun.
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Apr 9, 2016 02:26
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Klyith posted:They still had the problem of being kinda bland in play. Mo real gimmick other than darken the sky with ordnance and the neato Demiurge cruiser. Of all the races, they'd be the ones that I'd say would be well suited for a complete overhaul to put into the game. Tau would be the ones that could have a "support" ship with healing or buffs and be thematically appropriate. They had support ships in the courier and I think an equivalent in the FW fleet.
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Apr 9, 2016 02:29
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xthetenth posted:They had support ships in the courier and I think an equivalent in the FW fleet. Yeah so they had two kinda "support" themes: tracking systems, and the Orca / Castellan escorts that were very cost-effective but limited by the number of gravitic hooks in your fleet. The tracking systems were a support ship but the buff was really pretty small: re-rolls for defensive turrets, ignore column shift for batteries above 30cm. Plus it was on a 50pt escort that did nothing but provide tracking links which is pretty ehhh. In practice it wasn't very useful. In the forgeworld fleet the tracking link is on the big battleship instead which is probably better but I never played a game with those. If I was putting the Tau into the video game I'd just throw out most of the original stuff altogether and go way further with those ideas. Get into interactions they couldn't do because the rules would be too complicated for a TT game. I don't think anyone was particularly in love with the tau fleet as it was, a fresh start designed for a computer game would be cool.
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Apr 9, 2016 03:55
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Viva Miriya posted:Playing Imperial Navy now. I kinda said gently caress nova cannons and am making the Gothic my first cruiser. Am I wrong? Kinda. The Gothic is a support plattform. It does best engaging something from range while another cruiser ties it up in a brawl. A Dominator or Lunar is jsut plain better as a first cruiser choice, the Gothic is more what you want in the second or third slot.
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Apr 9, 2016 04:19
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What does a Gothic bring to the table if you can close to brawling range in the first place? Wouldn't another dominator do more damage in a brawl and adds more to the nova cannon alpha strike? Or whatever that adds more firepower for the fleet points. I feel Gothic probably needs to do about 25% more damage for it to make sense. pedro0930 fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Apr 9, 2016 |
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Apr 9, 2016 04:42
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Psycho Landlord posted:In my experience they were actually pretty poo poo. In terms of game balance, a hypothetical tau fleet would be cheaper per ship to let them field greater numbers for BFGA. They'd also get their missiles/bombers gimmick. Going by the fluff the roles a little reversed in space, the tau have a complete grasp of their science/engineering so their shipyards can shart out tons of mediocre vessels with fleets of good bombers while the imperium produces better ships all round but the big ones take decades to make because of tech priest voodoo.
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Apr 9, 2016 04:50
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hemale in pain posted:I had no idea plasma batteries were so bad though. i guess 99% of people are terrible because i've just been winning with gold plated fleets of overlords + light cruisers. They are an interesting idea but their biggest problem comes from the fact they are not lances. There is little they can do over 3k range that a lance cannot also do more better and far more accurately. In fact it brings up one of my biggest issues with the game and how upgrades slots are limited and given no bearing on cost with how much it improves. Imperial ships which are known for their mixed batteries worked fine on the TT but the problem is each weapon upgrade improves exactly one type of weapon. Upgrading macro cannons or lances makes perfect sense on a Dominator or Gothic respectively but what the hell are you supposed to do on ships like Mars which literally has three frigging types of weaponry? it makes specialist ships exponentially better as upgrades for one type of weapon that you have piles of is far more efficient in upgrade slot then trying to upgrade 2-3 weapon systems for only a slight net benefit. There just seems to be no real reason as an Imperial player to take anything but Dominators and Gothics with either a Mars and/or Emperor for fighter/bomber support and Swords for escorts.
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Apr 9, 2016 06:22
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pedro0930 posted:What does a Gothic bring to the table if you can close to brawling range in the first place? Wouldn't another dominator do more damage in a brawl and adds more to the nova cannon alpha strike? Or whatever that adds more firepower for the fleet points. Lances care nothing for range or positioning against enemy ships, as barring Brace for Impact they are 100% accurate at any range and don't give a poo poo about heavy armor, while macros most certainly do. They're also far better for causing crits and annihilating escorts, along with doing far more reliable damage against unshielded hulls. On the other hand, even with the anti-shield upgrade they are just not great against shields, and that combined with their slow rate of fire means they really want another ship to close in to both draw fire and to strip shields. The Gothic compounds these issues because it's not fast enough to kite at its longer range either, while the dedicated lance boat for Chaos, the Acheron battlecruiser, is both faster and carries a heavier lance armament.
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Apr 9, 2016 06:25
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Lord Koth posted:Lances care nothing for range or positioning against enemy ships, as barring Brace for Impact they are 100% accurate at any range and don't give a poo poo about heavy armor, while macros most certainly do. They're also far better for causing crits and annihilating escorts, along with doing far more reliable damage against unshielded hulls. On the other hand, even with the anti-shield upgrade they are just not great against shields, and that combined with their slow rate of fire means they really want another ship to close in to both draw fire and to strip shields. The Gothic compounds these issues because it's not fast enough to kite at its longer range either, while the dedicated lance boat for Chaos, the Acheron battlecruiser, is both faster and carries a heavier lance armament. That said though, you also have to remember that the Acheron is an entire ship class higher than the Gothic so you would expect it to be a superior vessel. Also worth noting is that the Gothic has literally zero competition on the Imperial fleet list. It isn't about it being the best/worst example of a lance-boat as much being the ONLY thing they have in that regard which is highly annoying. Unlike macro-cannons, the long range lances on BCs/BSs are actually pretty drat useful. I know I for one am hoping the Armageddon/Apocalypse make an appearance one day because it sure would be nice if imperials had SOMETHING that could actually hurt larger Ork ships but as it stands, your Gothic is your first, last and only option for fielding a respectable number of lances. This again is compounded by the horrible upgrade system which means that the Gothic's armament the only lances in the entire fleet that are worth upgrading. To be fair, we have yet to see how Eldar play in the video game yet and they traditionally have high defences against lances/ordinance but pound for pound, it really is hard to recommend anything over lances in their current incarnation for anything other than sub-3K range brawling.
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Apr 9, 2016 08:11
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Viva Miriya posted:Playing Imperial Navy now. I kinda said gently caress nova cannons and am making the Gothic my first cruiser. Am I wrong? Upgrade the lance range and you've got 100% accurate fire out to 9k. Calihan posted:In fact it brings up one of my biggest issues with the game and how upgrades slots are limited and given no bearing on cost with how much it improves. Imperial ships which are known for their mixed batteries worked fine on the TT but the problem is each weapon upgrade improves exactly one type of weapon. Upgrading macro cannons or lances makes perfect sense on a Dominator or Gothic respectively but what the hell are you supposed to do on ships like Mars which literally has three frigging types of weaponry? it makes specialist ships exponentially better as upgrades for one type of weapon that you have piles of is far more efficient in upgrade slot then trying to upgrade 2-3 weapon systems for only a slight net benefit. Elukka fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Apr 9, 2016 |
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Apr 9, 2016 08:50
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pedro0930 posted:What does a Gothic bring to the table if you can close to brawling range in the first place? Wouldn't another dominator do more damage in a brawl and adds more to the nova cannon alpha strike? Or whatever that adds more firepower for the fleet points. The gothic is a great supplement cruiser in higher point games, it stays back dishing out damage without taking damage while you micro your close range cruisers. Give it 9k lances and automate it while you focus on your other ships. It will use the priority system and focus on the right ships giving powerful lance strikes while you focus on the killing blow with your close range cruisers. The problem with IN cruisers is also the lack of diversity with the prow weapons--literally its all loving torpedoes and a single nova cannon. At some point your going to get diminishing returns with the torpedoes simply because of their giant spread. If you could fire them in a narrow band then you could focus fire a single ship down but by the time you try to get multiple spreads of torpedoes off the enemy has seen them and will be avoiding them.
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Apr 9, 2016 09:04
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There's nothing that says you have to shoot torpedoes from standoff range. Their minimum range is tiny for a reason. Use the prow armour to get close, High Energy Turn to line it up right, and let them rip from almost point blank. Get close enough and even the warp jump won't help because it has to charge up for half a second. https://fat.gfycat.com/FemaleHappygoluckyCrocodile.webm
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Apr 9, 2016 09:17
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Arghy posted:The gothic is a great supplement cruiser in higher point games, it stays back dishing out damage without taking damage while you micro your close range cruisers. Give it 9k lances and automate it while you focus on your other ships. It will use the priority system and focus on the right ships giving powerful lance strikes while you focus on the killing blow with your close range cruisers. Yeah pretty much. The Gothic is also about the only thing in the Imperial Navy's list that will do much to Ork capital ships due to their ridiculous armour/hull integrity. Technically, a Dominator with AP shells could as well but moving anything within 3k of an Ork ship may as well be putting a pretty bow on it with a "Shoot/board here for easy renown!" card attached. Perestroika posted:There's nothing that says you have to shoot torpedoes from standoff range. Their minimum range is tiny for a reason. Use the prow armour to get close, High Energy Turn to line it up right, and let them rip from almost point blank. Get close enough and even the warp jump won't help because it has to charge up for half a second. Yeah shotgunning torpedoes at near point blank range was a popular TT tactic as well. Especially vs. fleets like Chaos who had the agility and fighter wings to make a mockery out of even medium range salvoes. That's a wonderful gif though.
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Apr 9, 2016 09:29
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Calihan posted:Yeah shotgunning torpedoes at near point blank range was a popular TT tactic as well. Especially vs. fleets like Chaos who had the agility and fighter wings to make a mockery out of even medium range salvoes. That's a wonderful gif though. Not gonna lie I've watched it a few times and now I'm very worried about Perestroika's escorts that have torpedoes coming up behind them. 
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Apr 9, 2016 14:27
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I love torpedoes. I don't care about any of the pro/con arguments, ever since they made them treat all armor as 25, they're just fun to use and rewarding when you can slam a spread into an enemy. It's just fun, and when I'm playing Chaos I always miss torpedoes (torpedo escorts don't count, too much effort for the reward), when I'm playing Orkz I always miss high energy turn (really helpful in lining up a spread).
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Apr 9, 2016 14:32
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Yeah, I've been going very torpedo heavy as the Imperials, by closing in hard. Plus, if the torpedoes fail to finish them off, you AAF and Ram the bastards! 
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Apr 9, 2016 15:20
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I like torpedoes a lot more than Nova cannons but I really wish they weren't the wrong choice. Like, I enjoy using them but I know I'll do worse with torp ships than Nova ships. They just don't really compare in terms of usefulness.
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Apr 9, 2016 16:11
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Yeah it's a real shame. At least you can still go torpedo heavy as Ork (and probably Eldar) but it's not as satisfying without come to new heading to make those snap-turn torpedo shots.
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Apr 9, 2016 17:00
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Elukka posted:I like torpedoes a lot more than Nova cannons but I really wish they weren't the wrong choice. Like, I enjoy using them but I know I'll do worse with torp ships than Nova ships. They just don't really compare in terms of usefulness. Yeah now that I'm used to Nova cannons, its pretty much my go to. I'm gonna probably upgrade 2 dominators with turbomacros so they shoot out to 9k like my good ole chaos friends. That way they can deliver decent fire while being standoffish enough to fire novacannon shots regularly.
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Apr 9, 2016 17:32
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Currently have 4 Dauntless LCs with Adeptus Astartes upgrade and 2 Dominators which I'm gonna put AdMech on. Trying to figure out how to deal with Imperial Navy battleships as not orks is kinda a headache.
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Apr 9, 2016 20:46
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Viva Miriya posted:Currently have 4 Dauntless LCs with Adeptus Astartes upgrade and 2 Dominators which I'm gonna put AdMech on. Trying to figure out how to deal with Imperial Navy battleships as not orks is kinda a headache. Just close the gap and gang up on them. Neither battleship is *that* damaging up close, and the Emperor is far more dangerous if you just let it sit undisturbed and poo poo out giant waves of bombers or assault pods. Retribution broadsides are no more damaging than Dominator broadsides at close range. Even with the lance turrets it's not that far ahead. The Emperor is too slow to reliably keep its distance. Plus, your Dauntless roll 2 attacks per lightning strike with SM favor, so they don't even need to risk getting boarded back. Just keep in mind that when you come too close abeam, battleships roll like 5 dice on boarding. Hell, you can probably micro half your light cruisers to just stay on their clunky 5 degrees/second asses. Psykmoe fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Apr 9, 2016 |
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Apr 9, 2016 21:14
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Viva Miriya posted:Currently have 4 Dauntless LCs with Adeptus Astartes upgrade and 2 Dominators which I'm gonna put AdMech on. Trying to figure out how to deal with Imperial Navy battleships as not orks is kinda a headache. The Dauntlesses can kite at 6k and use Terminator strikes to go after engines. Really though at this point you want to use Nova spam with the Domis plus extra-range Firestorms.
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Apr 9, 2016 21:16
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Viva Miriya posted:Currently have 4 Dauntless LCs with Adeptus Astartes upgrade and 2 Dominators which I'm gonna put AdMech on. Trying to figure out how to deal with Imperial Navy battleships as not orks is kinda a headache. Yeah tempted to start a new admiral and create a new list. All lance dauntless's because those are the best to leave to their own devices compared to the torpedo dauntless. Astarte lance dauntless with speed/AP/sensor/9k lance and MWJ/taunt Ad mech dominators, token gothic 2 Inquisition mar's Inquisition emperor Then use 9k firestorms set to broadside as my escort of choice.
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Apr 9, 2016 21:45
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I had supercharged void shields as my go to for dauntless's but now that positioning is kinda important I might switch all 4 of mine to that.
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Apr 9, 2016 21:52
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MWJ is sensor range so you'll go from 5k jump to 7.5k jumps which is huge because now you can see them first and jump to them before they even see you. Taunt forces the opponent to attack you so use it on enemy ships using AAF to run and watch as they now try to turn and engage you wasting all their fuel and coupled with your huge MWJ now you can jump right next to them once they burned that fuel. Lance/astarte dauntless is the best combo because you'll be hitting them with your lance the entire time and now you can choose between your terminator strike or sallying close and using your 3 dice boarding action. I'm debating on what bombs for my dominator--stasis/plasma or disruption/stasis? You don't want complimenting because you'll likely have 1 cruiser out of action and you can compliment it with your BC's bombs.
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Apr 9, 2016 22:48
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Perestroika posted:There's nothing that says you have to shoot torpedoes from standoff range. Their minimum range is tiny for a reason. Use the prow armour to get close, High Energy Turn to line it up right, and let them rip from almost point blank. Get close enough and even the warp jump won't help because it has to charge up for half a second. Can you please upload full matches. BFG is one of those games I can actually watch and appreciate the graphics and action. But I have to ignore all that during my own matches because I'm too busy singing ork shanty's and being bad at tactical stuff.
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Apr 9, 2016 23:11
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I'm gonna have to switch to that but for now I loaded up on plasma bomb spam. Dunk on someone whose shields are down and rip as much of their hull as possible with that and novacannons.
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Apr 9, 2016 23:21
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