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OhYeah posted:Just out of curiosity, have you had any personal contacts with the Roma community? Yeah a Roma family lives two floors down and they're decent people so I guess the jury just has to be out on this one with my "they're regular folks" vs Ligur's "they're piripää metrostabbers" experiences directly conflicting each other!
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Apr 9, 2016 17:41
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Kemper Boyd posted:Have you? No. Smart people learn from the mistakes of others.
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Apr 9, 2016 17:42
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ALLAN LASSUS posted:Yeah a Roma family lives two floors down and they're decent people so I guess the jury just has to be out on this one with my "they're regular folks" vs Ligur's "they're piripää metrostabbers" experiences directly conflicting each other! Do you understand what "disproportionality" means?
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Apr 9, 2016 17:44
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En minä ole ollut henkilökohtaisesti juutalaisten kanssa tekemisissä, mutta viisathan oppivat muiden virheistä. Katsokaas kun huono maine ei synny tyhjästä.
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Apr 9, 2016 17:57
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OhYeah posted:Do you understand what "disproportionality" means? No but a "hai sie" yelling meth head caricature Roma swinging a puukko in the subway is probably more representative of their culture than a family that's normal as gently caress but just looks a bit different, you're right
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Apr 9, 2016 18:09
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Triple A posted:huono maine ei synny tyhjästä Are you talking about Ligur?
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Apr 9, 2016 20:46
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ALLAN LASSUS posted:No but a "hai sie" yelling meth head caricature Roma swinging a puukko in the subway is probably more representative of their culture than a family that's normal as gently caress but just looks a bit different, you're right The fact that you have to defend them like this suggests that there are reasons to be cautious of them. You are welcome to define your own beliefs and your behavior based on those beliefs, but you have no right to call others "racist" when they choose to exercise caution, especially when it's with good reason.
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Apr 9, 2016 20:50
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ALLAN LASSUS posted:Yeah a Roma family lives two floors down and they're decent people so I guess the jury just has to be out on this one with my "they're regular folks" vs Ligur's "they're piripää metrostabbers" experiences directly conflicting each other! Why the hell do you have to make poo poo up? edit: ok not in this post per se (though I fail to see why conflicting experiences are problematic) but you went on to accuse me of a bunch of stuff and olettamukset I did not say or olettanut. I called you out on it earlier but you don't want to respond. Not that you have to but why do you do that? Ligur fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Apr 10, 2016 |
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Apr 9, 2016 21:25
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Kut kat tis tret...
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Apr 9, 2016 21:56
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My local exposure with gypsies have largely been limited to helping in pushing their car out of the way in the parking lot of my apartment complex when their car battery died. They're still a weirdly nomadic(?) people, with some wearing Formula One McLaren logo emblazed coats along with their shined leather shoes and tailored trousers for some odd reason. And their love for iskelmä music is well documented. I can't blame if people feel nervous around them, though. They have a long and rough history.
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Apr 9, 2016 22:21
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Rexroom posted:I can't blame if people feel nervous around them, though. They have a long and rough history. Longer but less rough than nazis.
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Apr 9, 2016 22:27
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Jerry Cotton posted:Longer but less rough than nazis. Perhaps, but gypsies were also given free train tickets to the nearest death camps.
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Apr 9, 2016 22:43
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Shiny shoes and nomadic Formula jackets, Rexroom you've truly nailed it, what noble culture. Anyway, they stole the 4th nail and received blessings from god so who are we to judge. You would have to be literally Hitler to attack them on a train.
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Apr 9, 2016 23:01
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Rexroom posted:My local exposure with gypsies have largely been limited to helping in pushing their car out of the way in the parking lot of my apartment complex when their car battery died. haha same here
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Apr 9, 2016 23:34
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ruotsalaisnuoriso taas vauhdissa: http://www.iltasanomat.fi/kotimaa/art-2000001155357.html
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Apr 10, 2016 00:05
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http://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/a1460169049987 I didn't even know about this 
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Apr 10, 2016 00:15
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Nauta posted:tekeekö darkest auer töitä kotoa? Hey, I can shitpost at any hour, you're not my mom!
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Apr 10, 2016 00:52
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DarkCrawler posted:http://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/a1460169049987 It's not very rare for psychiatrists, priests or other professional listeners to meet people still traumatized by that. 
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Apr 10, 2016 06:42
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DarkCrawler posted:http://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/a1460169049987 My uncle was in the military at the time and he did cleanup for the accident site after the blast. Apparently collecting body parts isn't a lot of fun.
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Apr 10, 2016 07:01
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Hogge Wild posted:ruotsalaisnuoriso taas vauhdissa: http://www.iltasanomat.fi/kotimaa/art-2000001155357.html – Emme sano mitään tulkinnallisista syistä, hän kertoi lehdelle. Hän ei kiistä sitä, etteikö pidätyksiä vois tulla lisää. Keep up the good work, IS!
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Apr 10, 2016 10:49
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I visited the Patruuna museum in Lapua last summer, it was haunting how a small community like that basically lost a generation of people in one moment. Oh, and tucked away in a corner room there is also an Lapuan liike exhibition, which somehow underscores the ridiculousness of where that movement started.
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Apr 10, 2016 10:51
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Kemper Boyd posted:That thing is a thing of the past, now we have Jankon Rasismi Oy inventing racist news out of nothing. Odd in the sense you don't have to invent news about new comers behaving like poo poo in Finland or our beloved neighbour Sweden. Unless you have taken the stance of a left leaning pro-unelma höhrö, e.g. since mv-lehti published an unfounded rumour it means all the tricks our new hairy friends pull and we read about almost daily are inventions out of nothing, or if not, they don't really matter one way or another anyway, since the worst problem is racists making false accusations. Perhaps you can take courses from our Swedish posters? They unfailingly accuse me (and everyone else who speak out) of paranoia and inventions, and when you link official police statistics and ask what is the paranoid invention part, they vanish and never respond. And close the thread if they can 
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Apr 10, 2016 13:07
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Hmmm, something that always strikes me as odd. Mr. LASSUS did something quite common earlier. Why do people who are übertouchy and feel personally offended about minority issues in general pull this stuff almost without a fail? They take some statement, read far too much into, or for example generalize it to mean every single person from some group on whose behalf they feel obliged to be offended - and then become offended or angry at their own generalization. Like so: Person A says, say, "Somalians in my town are mostly unemployed." Person B claims Person A just said all Somalians are lazy and criminal layabouts, and becomes offended. Person A points out that isn't quite what he said. Person B does't listen. Person B calls out person A a racist piece of poo poo. Or perhaps Person A writes out power metal lyrics to the tune of "we must fight againts multiculturalism!" on his facebook. Person B claims Person A just said random foreigners need to be physically attacked in the streets. Or, according to Person B, at least someone somewhere might think so. Person B becomes extremely agigated about his his own interpretation. Person C points out Person A wanted to fight an ism, as in a political agenda. Person B doesn't listen. Person B calls person A and person C racists who spread hate speech which is meant to instigate violence against children. It's just so weird. I honestly do not understand the motivation or to what (good or postivie) purpose or effect pulling that poo poo is supposed to have.
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Apr 10, 2016 13:26
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Ligur posted:I honestly do not understand the motivation or to what (good or postivie) purpose or effect pulling that poo poo is supposed to have. Sure you do. The point is to shut down discussion. While doing that doesn't cause the person called racist to look bad anymore (or at least not as badly), it still effectively kills the dialogue. This is intentional and if you ask people about it, it's called "not giving any room to racists/fascists/other people i disagree with".
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Apr 10, 2016 13:34
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Ligur posted:Odd in the sense you don't have to invent news about new comers behaving like poo poo in Finland or our beloved neighbour Sweden. Unless you have taken the stance of a left leaning pro-unelma höhrö, e.g. since mv-lehti published an unfounded rumour it means all the tricks our new hairy friends pull and we read about almost daily are inventions out of nothing, or if not, they don't really matter one way or another anyway, since the worst problem is racists making false accusations. That's weird, because I remember supplying you with statistics, not the other way around. Must be my leftist brain playing tricks on me. 
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Apr 10, 2016 13:41
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Hob_Gadling posted:Sure you do. The point is to shut down discussion. While doing that doesn't cause the person called racist to look bad anymore (or at least not as badly), it still effectively kills the dialogue. This is intentional and if you ask people about it, it's called "not giving any room to racists/fascists/other people i disagree with". I don't think all the people who do that understand it that way, even though blowing up everything as a byproduct causes shutting down discussion yes. For example your average rexroom, fishofhemp or allan will accuse you of racism at the drop of a hat, or make huge generalizations out of, say, my posts ("lukemalla rivien välistä") but at the same time I'm pretty sure they are congratulating themselves for being open, objective and all for diverse and moniääninen keskustelu. It would be interesting to hear people who do this explain their own behaviour. One I've heard is that even though Person A doesn't actually say so, and denies meaning it, Person B still "knows" person A actually made his statement about the unemployed Somali in his town (or whatever) just because he is a racist psycopath who wants to massacre all mussulmen. Thus Person B is under no compuction to behave civilly, and is free, even justified in accusing Person A of all that and hitler. Fortunately this one of the very few instances where a lot of people think they can treat communication in this manner. If everyone everywhere discussed based on their worst assumptions, and better yet, refused to listen when someone attemps to correct them, yhteiskunta natisisi kyllä liitoksistaan vielä helvetin paljon pahemmin. Cake Smashing Boob posted:That's weird, because I remember supplying you with statistics, not the other way around. Must be my leftist brain playing tricks on me. I'm sure you have. When did I say Cake Smashing Boob has never supplied me with statistics? Still doesn't make it go away that Swedes have often attacked me for saying this or that and then ignore any material that would support what I said. And say I (o whoever) can't comment on Swedish news because I don't speak fluent Swedish. They by and large (in D&D) treat everyone this way if the person doesn't agree to the forum concensus about something. You know this yourself. (Translation has not been invented in Sweden.) But thanks for your snarky reply to post that was not targeted at you. What did you attempt with it, though? Claim that I'm lying? Ligur fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Apr 10, 2016 |
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Apr 10, 2016 13:55
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Hob_Gadling posted:Sure you do. The point is to shut down discussion. While doing that doesn't cause the person called racist to look bad anymore (or at least not as badly), it still effectively kills the dialogue. This is intentional and if you ask people about it, it's called "not giving any room to racists/fascists/other people i disagree with". ja sitten he ihmettelevät miksi ihmiset eivät äänestä heidän puolueitansa kun heidän väittelytavat ovat näin lapsellisia
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Apr 10, 2016 14:06
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Do you people think that people on the left sphere of politics are somehow more pure and enlightened then literally any other group of person and thus there must be some specific new never seen before cause for dishonest leftist posters? That's pretty much the only reason I can figure out the reason for all of this self-congratulatory jacking off in two languages that we get every goddamn few pages. You know the reason, stop pretending that you don't. Whatever side you support or whatever pet cause you focus on doesn't have any better track record. Some people debate dishonestly. Regardless of their political views. Wow look at that I just solved the mystery right there. Shut the gently caress up Jesus Christ DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Apr 10, 2016 |
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Apr 10, 2016 14:35
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Hob_Gadling posted:Sure you do. The point is to shut down discussion. While doing that doesn't cause the person called racist to look bad anymore (or at least not as badly), it still effectively kills the dialogue. This is intentional and if you ask people about it, it's called "not giving any room to racists/fascists/other people i disagree with". This is because racists don't bring anything new to the debate. When people "kill the dialogue", it's only because nobody cares. They'd rather do normal people stuff than argue about brown people and how they're bad. This greatly annoys racists who think everybody needs to hear their views. Or, more preferably, adopt them. Speaking of racists, herr doktor Jussi Halla-aho has something of a fallout with them. Or, at least with MV -lehti, the Finnish Gawker, only worse. Why, considering MV was the voice of freedom for far right types? The main architect of the "immigration critical" got on their bad side when he dared to suggest we join NATO and criticized Russia for being a country led by an authoritarian leader. There are apparently a lot of weirdos who think only Russia could save Finland from the pinko liberal taint, so this was a red flag, making him a pariah. In retaliation Halla-aho has called MV -lehti a "ruble financed rag" in Facebook. Racists in general have lost faith with TF for not cleansing Finland of funny looking people.
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Apr 10, 2016 14:49
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DarkCrawler posted:Shut the gently caress up Jesus Christ Trying to shut down discussion, I see.
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Apr 10, 2016 14:52
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Rexroom posted:Speaking of racists, herr doktor Jussi Halla-aho has something of a fallout with them. Or, at least with MV -lehti, the Finnish Gawker, only worse. Why, considering MV was the voice of freedom for far right types? The main architect of the "immigration critical" got on their bad side when he dared to suggest we join NATO and criticized Russia for being a country led by an authoritarian leader. Considering there are apparently a lot of weirdos who think only Russia could save Finland from the pinko liberal taint, this was a red flag, making him a pariah. In retaliation Halla-aho has called MV -lehti a "ruble financed rag" in Facebook. Racists in general have lost faith with TF for not cleansing Finland of funny looking people. Also the Danish Soldiers of Odin are shutting off because of the bad rap the Finnish Soldiers of Odin have been getting: http://www.hs.fi/ulkomaat/a1460089663577 Also the weirdos aren't that weird when you realize the extent of Putin's support for anything anti-EU. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/12103602/America-to-investigate-Russian-meddling-in-EU.html http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21643222-who-backs-putin-and-why-kremlins-pocket http://uatoday.tv/politics/putin-s-european-extremist-allies-412846.html http://imrussia.org/en/analysis/world/2500-putinism-and-the-european-far-right It doesn't extend on only far-right groups though (Syriza for example) and being anti-EU doesn't mean you are pro-Russia (our own TF thankfully manages to be both anti-EU and anti-Russia) Puistokemisti posted:Trying to shut down discussion, I see. Emphasis on "trying"  I just hate when this place looks like your average IS/IL comment section.
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Apr 10, 2016 15:01
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DarkCrawler posted:Do you people think that people on the left sphere of politics are somehow more pure and enlightened then literally any other group of person and thus there must be some specific new never seen before cause for dishonest leftist posters? no but they pretend they are. but i do think this thread is mostly a retarded slapfight between two foaming mouth groups
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Apr 10, 2016 15:01
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Nauta posted:no but they pretend they are Everyone does for the love of loving Christ How are you a sentient being and remain unaware of this
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Apr 10, 2016 15:02
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well yes but it's much more common to see "you're a monster if u don't agree" type of rhetoric from the left than from the right. or middle
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Apr 10, 2016 15:06
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Nauta posted:well yes but it's much more common to see "you're a monster if u don't agree" type of rhetoric from the left than from the right. or middle That's because "the middle" doesn't exist, the capitalist-fascist right doesn't listen, and the nazi right says "you're a traitor whore if u don't agree".
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Apr 10, 2016 15:11
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Nauta posted:well yes but it's much more common to see "you're a monster if u don't agree" type of rhetoric from the left than from the right. or middle The gently caress it is. It's exactly as common on any side, just in a different form. This is a left-leaning forum (extremely so IMO). Go to a right-leaning forum and see how fast you're painted as a defender of muslim rapists or homogays tearing down the fabric of society by random posters if you even seem to support either refugees or gay rights. Different people think defending different things make you a monster. Some people are so narrowly focused that they think that even a slight allusion of perhaps defending those things make you a monster and they are exactly as goddamn common on any political position. If people actually stepped out of their own comfort zone for one second they would see this. Maybe go somewhere else then SomethingAwful forums for a while 
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Apr 10, 2016 15:13
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DarkCrawler posted:The gently caress it is. indeed. i was speaking in the context of these forums because i don't browse right-leaning websites Jerry Cotton posted:That's because "the middle" doesn't exist, the capitalist-fascist right doesn't listen, and the nazi right says "you're a traitor whore if u don't agree". 
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Apr 10, 2016 15:21
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Rexroom posted:Speaking of racists, herr doktor Jussi Halla-aho has something of a fallout with them. Or, at least with MV -lehti, the Finnish Gawker, only worse. Why, considering MV was the voice of freedom for far right types? The main architect of the "immigration critical" got balh blah Heh. MV-lehti does not represent "racists" or immigration critical people, and certainly is not the voice for anyone (except in the head of some leftie-hörhös). it's a junk click media. Anyone is free game. Pieces about sekoilevat migrants are a good clickmaker, especially since traditional medias used to report about them so poorly. Which didn't re-educate readers into thinking positively about the subject, but instead made them distrustful and helped pave the road for mv-lehtis but I digress...
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Apr 10, 2016 15:34
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Ligur posted:Heh. MV-lehti does not represent "racists" or immigration critical people, and certainly is not the voice for anyone (except in the head of some leftie-hörhös). Please tell that to my racist relatives who can't stop posting that garbage on facebook.
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Apr 10, 2016 15:36
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Ligur posted:Heh. MV-lehti does not represent "racists" or immigration critical people, and certainly is not the voice for anyone (except in the head of some leftie-hörhös). 
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Apr 10, 2016 15:40
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