|
I just put way too much effort into a giant, nearly unreadable post at 7:35am when I'm bone-tired, that's how much I hate the fuckin filler argument right nowMoltrey posted:Remember the time Jolyne killed the lawyer that got her sentenced while she was still inside the prison Jolyne is really god drat great
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 15:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 11:38 |
|
|
CJ posted:I didn't realise this was the non-spoiler thread when i posted that last night. If you want to discuss future parts we can do so in the spoiler thread. Not to insult you personally, but wanting to skip Shizuka and Mikitaka is probably the worst JoJopinion I've ever read and I 1. Browse /a/ 2. Look at the JoJo tags on tumblr 3. Am me. so I've seen some extremely bad JoJopinions.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 16:06
|
|
|
The baby didn't really go anywhere and wasn't that interesting because it was a baby and didn't really have a personality. They didn't really go anywhere with it so in retrospect i don't think it was worth including. The alien guy i was just annoyed by because he was just acting weird for the sake of it for a few chapters. I didn't realise the rohan gambling thing was part of the same arc, i liked that. I mainly meant the chapters where they just ask him what his deal is and he acts weird for attention. The other part that i thought was entirely forgettable was the paper guy, but since he was so forgettable i forgot about him. Those are just the parts i remember feeling bored by and thinking that he needs to start wrapping it up. It's very minor compared to the large parts of Stardust Crusaders that were entirely forgettable.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 16:15
|
|
|
CJ posted:The baby didn't really go anywhere and wasn't that interesting because it was a baby and didn't really have a personality. They didn't really go anywhere with it so in retrospect i don't think it was worth including. The alien guy i was just annoyed by because he was just acting weird for the sake of it for a few chapters. I didn't realise the rohan gambling thing was part of the same arc, i liked that. I mainly meant the chapters where they just ask him what his deal is and he acts weird for attention. The other part that i thought was entirely forgettable was the paper guy, but since he was so forgettable i forgot about him. I am screaming.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 16:28
|
|
|
The Achtung Baby plot isn't about the loving baby it's Josuke connecting with his estranged father what the hell. Joseph had a kid he didn't know about and the gimmick of that story is a loving invisible child do I need to draw you a diagram?
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 16:28
|
|
|
CJ posted:The baby didn't really go anywhere and wasn't that interesting because it was a baby and didn't really have a personality. They didn't really go anywhere with it so in retrospect i don't think it was worth including. The alien guy i was just annoyed by because he was just acting weird for the sake of it for a few chapters. I didn't realise the rohan gambling thing was part of the same arc, i liked that. I mainly meant the chapters where they just ask him what his deal is and he acts weird for attention. The other part that i thought was entirely forgettable was the paper guy, but since he was so forgettable i forgot about him. It's about Josuke significantly interacting with his absentee father for the first time in his life and the last real look at Joseph Joestar as a character, to show him at the end of his life and show that despite the affair, his old age and possible senility robbing him of his quick wit, he's still the heroic JoJo at the end that readers grew to love. The baby's a prop to it, but as a whole the arc is a defining moment for both Josuke and Joseph. The Shizuka arc is probably my favourite Joseph bit as a whole. His subsequent appearances are just little bits, such as showing up in Boy II Man or getting on the boat at the end of the part. Rohan Kishibe posted:The Achtung Baby plot isn't about the loving baby it's Josuke connecting with his estranged father what the hell. Joseph had a kid he didn't know about and the gimmick of that story is a loving invisible child do I need to draw you a diagram? Hah, I just put together that the invisible baby is as much symbolic of Josuke to Joseph as it is a character in its own right. I mean, just look at this poo poo and tell me this isn't 10/10 awesome cannot wait to see it in the anime. 
Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Apr 10, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 16:33
|
|
|
Araki answered The Great """""Filler"""""" Debate for us back in like 2011 Josuke Higashikata posted:I mean, just look at this poo poo and tell me this isn't 10/10 awesome cannot wait to see it in the anime.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 16:41
|
|
CJ posted:The baby didn't really go anywhere and wasn't that interesting because it was a baby and didn't really have a personality. They didn't really go anywhere with it so in retrospect i don't think it was worth including. The alien guy i was just annoyed by because he was just acting weird for the sake of it for a few chapters. I didn't realise the rohan gambling thing was part of the same arc, i liked that. I mainly meant the chapters where they just ask him what his deal is and he acts weird for attention. The other part that i thought was entirely forgettable was the paper guy, but since he was so forgettable i forgot about him. You need to stop trying to judge storytelling quality because you have literally no understanding of how it works whatsoever and are just making yourself look bad.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 16:42
|
|
Rohan Kishibe posted:The Achtung Baby plot isn't about the loving baby it's Josuke connecting with his estranged father what the hell. Joseph had a kid he didn't know about and the gimmick of that story is a loving invisible child do I need to draw you a diagram? I feel like a loving moron for not putting those two together.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 16:42
|
|
|
Diamond is Unbreakable is one of those parts that could literally go on forever and I'd fuckin love it. It's not even the excellent "fights", it's an incredible cast of characters that you can watch bounce off of each other forever. I wouldn't want to remove anything, but I'd say some other parts go on a little too long; if you ask me, parts of 3 and 5 drag on a little, and even 7 does. 4 never does. If anything, there's not enough of it! I wanted more fights for Okuyasu, more scenes with his dad, more Tonio, more scenes for Cinderella before her death, MORE ROHAN BEING A TOTAL DICK, more Earth Wind & Fire, and holy poo poo I want Yuya Fungami around as an ally more his stand is RAD
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 16:43
|
|
|
Araki has straight up said™ that he'd like to have continued Diamond is Unbreakable, or have gone back to it if possible. It's no coincidence that after SBR did "part 1 redux I guess but it's actually super super different", JJL is "This isn't part 4 redux, but some of the parallels are extremely close to each other". Morioh is a fantastic setting and JoJolion, at least since Karera showed up, is easily peak DiU quality.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 16:47
|
|
|
Part 5 is the worst by far. It has a lot of the same problems as part 3, i had to force myself to keep reading it around the time it got to the ice guy. Several chapters of them saying "Oh no the ice is coming in the car!" over and over was terrible. However i understand that the translation is pretty terrible so maybe they are saying interesting things in the original. I'm not willing to write it completely off because of that. I skipped part 6 completely after my bad experience with part 5 so can't comment on that. Part 7 was good pretty much throughout. Interesting characters, creative stands and the race stages help break the journey up into manageable chunks with milestones. Part 8 i like what i've read, but i stopped around the part where they go to the cafe because i couldn't handle the monthly release schedule. I'm saving the rest until it's finished so i can read it all in one go. Another problem i have with the series that i didn't want to mention in the other thread is how the final villains all get a power boost that doesn't really fit either narratively or thematically. Like why does Kira gain the ability to reset time? In my head i like to think that it's a pun on the phrase "time bomb" but it's not explicitly stated and i'm not sure if japanese uses that phrase and it being intended or a happy coincidence.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 16:55
|
|
|
It may be a pun on time bomb, but being the super anal about his identity serial killer that he is and the fact that he only got caught out both times by his own mistakes, being able to undo his mistakes once rumbled is a pretty sensible power for Kira to get. (Daxing Dan's translation has BTD as "erase time" interestingly, rather than rewind. Erase being King Crimson's thing ultimately) I think there's an argument to be made for Killer Queen having ability bloat, but thematically, BTD works out.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 17:01
|
|
|
They totally explain why Kira gets the Bites the Dust. A Stand User getting stabbed the arrow unlocks a Stand ability and at the time Kira was freaking the gently caress out because he just killed Hayato and knew there was no loving way he was going to cover this one up, all he wanted in that moment was to be able go back to living his quiet life. And whoops, his dad stabs him by the arrow on accident and his ability to make bombs lets him explode time now and make it loop so now he can go back before he totally screwed the pooch on killing his new identity's kid and rewind time if Hayato ever tries to spill the beans that His Dad Is Not His Dad Also please read Part 6 jesus christ
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 17:01
|
|
|
Moltrey posted:Remember the time Jolyne killed the lawyer that got her sentenced while she was still inside the prison So does Araki think that everyone from Florida is some weird elf? Because I'm not sure he's wrong.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 17:06
|
|
|
CJ, at first I thought maybe you were just in it for the creative punchghost battles, which I could kind of understand, even if I don't agree, because not many series do weird puzzle battles as well as JJBA does. But then you said that you enjoyed seeing Rohan setting his house on fire, which has almost no stand stuff whatsoever and no impact on the overall plot beyond the fact that Rohan doesn't let Josuke forget it, so I'm still confused. I'm still happy that people are getting into the series, though, and I hope that seeing some of those parts animated will change your mind about them. e: I didn't mean to be Another Person with a Jojo Avatar in this dogpile. Sorry! You're entitled to your own impressions of each arc, and I'd be curious to hear what the highlights of the series are for you, and why.Moltrey posted:Also please read Part 6 jesus christ Amaryllis fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Apr 10, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 17:09
|
|
|
On the plus side to skipping, I skipped the first three parts because of the anime and I'm looking forward to reading them once I get an actual weekend that isn't stuffed to the gills in three weeks or so. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 17:23
|
|
|
here have something really sad (If you don't know Ayrton Senna,first up: How? Secondly: he died on the track while racing. Axel through the helmet. He was carrying an Austrian flag in his cockpit to wave if he won the race to memorialise Roland Ratzenberger who died the day before during qualifying for the race.  )
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 17:26
|
|
|
Amaryllis posted:Seriously, if your complaint is that the villains' endgame powers don't make narrative or thematic sense, I have a lot of problems with part 6, but that's not one of them. Jail House Lock has to be one of the most distressing stand abilities in JJBA. Weaponized Alzheimer's  (Oh god the irony that I struggled to remember the name Alzheimer's)
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 17:31
|
|
|
Rohan Kishibe posted:The Achtung Baby plot isn't about the loving baby it's Josuke connecting with his estranged father what the hell. Joseph had a kid he didn't know about and the gimmick of that story is a loving invisible child do I need to draw you a diagram? This is a Good Post. CJ posted:Part 5 is the worst by far. It has a lot of the same problems as part 3, i had to force myself to keep reading it around the time it got to the ice guy. Several chapters of them saying "Oh no the ice is coming in the car!" over and over was terrible. However i understand that the translation is pretty terrible so maybe they are saying interesting things in the original. I'm not willing to write it completely off because of that. I skipped part 6 completely after my bad experience with part 5 so can't comment on that. Part 7 was good pretty much throughout. Interesting characters, creative stands and the race stages help break the journey up into manageable chunks with milestones. Part 8 i like what i've read, but i stopped around the part where they go to the cafe because i couldn't handle the monthly release schedule. I'm saving the rest until it's finished so i can read it all in one go. 1) Absolutely do come back to Part 5 once the translation isn't garbage. The new one got up to the beginning of White Album, so maybe have a readthrough of it again. 2) Kira being able to reset time is symbolic of him trying to maintain control and wanting a "quiet life." If things go wrong, things reset to the next day and he can keep living this quiet life forever. Like mmmmoooost JoJo villains, maintaining control over everything is a big deal, and for Kira it manifests as him being stuck in a self imposed Groundhog Day time loop. For Dio, stopping time absolutely fits him because now he can do pretty much whatever he wants in the stopped time with little to no consequences, which we know is what he was totally going for waaaaaay back during Part 1. Kars wanted to become an ultimate being so he could go in the sun, and that's pretty straight forward. Diavolo having an ability that lets you skip forward to the consequences and lets your predict these consequences is perfect for someone who wants to maintain such tight control over a large group of gangsters and making it easy to rule by fear, and he's also only concerned with the results, and GER punches him into the Infinite Death Loop Dimension because there's never an end result of his "death", just dying in increasingly horrific ways and making him even more paranoid than he already is. 3) Read Part 6, goddamn.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 17:37
|
|
|
Hijo Del Helmsley posted:Jail House Lock has to be one of the most distressing stand abilities in JJBA. Weaponized Alzheimer's
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 17:42
|
|
|
The way they beat her was also something you could only see in Jojo. Jail House Lock was the best fight.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 17:45
|
|
|
kira's stand gets a new ability because stands are an extension of one's psyche and general willpower. the arrow is something that jumpstarts the development of a stand in a person, and if they're not even remotely strong enough to have one then they die. kira doesn't have to worry about that part. all he knows is that the arrow gives people stands, so he figures that maybe if he stabs himself with it again then it might help his situation. his desperation mixed with the act of arrowing himself manifests itself in an ability that fulfills his wish for his life not to be ruined, in that it can reverse time if people find out his identity (which in his mind he deems as his life being, as said, ruined) as well as blowing up the person who figures it out. i don't think a person could just keep repeatedly stabbing themselves with the arrow to get new abilities. they would need to actually have some major thing going on at the time that would actually influence their psyche enough to where the arrow would be able to 'draw out' anything more. also the baby part in DiU is basically entirely about characterizing old joseph and having him connect with his son and part 6 is entirely separate from part 5 along with having good translations, so i'm not sure why someone would skip that specifically yet read the bits afterwards.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 17:51
|
|
|
The arrow stabs Kira again, rather than the other way around. He's surprised when the arrow hits him again. I don't quite get the mechanics of how that can happen, but it does.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 17:53
|
|
|
oh, yeah, i forgot that little detail. it's been a while. i feel that kind of helps my interpretation even more, actually.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 17:54
|
|
|
Yoshihiro is, arguably, the Best Dad in the series. He just wants Kira to succeed as a serial killer so much and will do anything to help him out.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 17:56
|
|
|
I like the parts that are interesting. As i said in the other thread i think J Geil is the standout villain of the week fight in Stardust Crusaders because the villain has characterization and a history with Polnaroff so we have reason to care about him, he has an interesting stand ability that leads to interesting situations like them trying to avoid reflections (and it's a really cool concept in general and lends itself to some really cool and intense situations like when you see it creeping up on characters in the reflection), and he is defeated in an interesting way in that he's forced into a corner and defeated rather than the protagonists just deciding they are bored and it's time to beat him. A bad fight in comparison would be Wheel of Fortune. The stand user is a non-character, his ability is boring and he is just defeated because Araki is bored of him so just puts Jotaro in range to punch him. He's entirely forgettable and you wouldn't notice if you accidentally skipped his episode. I'd have to think about it after looking at a list of arcs to give you a definitive list, but off the top of my head i disliked Tower of Grey and Dark Blue Moon because they had forgettable users, abilities and they were defeated in boring ways. I liked Strength and The Devil well enough because they were a bit more interesting, and The Devil is defeated because he was outsmarted rather than Polnaroff just deciding to arbitrarily land a hit and end it. Hol Horse and J Geil are both good because they have character and it's an interesting fight. Everything after that is pretty forgettable until D'Arby, except Oingo and Boingo are fun enough for comic relief. D'Arby and onwards are all pretty good because they all have something interesting about them, be that Terence because it's just so ridiculous or Vanilla Ice for having some great art and actual consequence to the fight. Dio is really like for the art, creative use of his ability and for Dio being such a great character. I like that Dio is defeated by hubris but i think Jotaro gaining the ability to stop time could be explained better to make it less of an rear end pull, and i liked the way the OVA depicted Dio realising he couldn't move better than the manga.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 18:03
|
|
|
Dragonatrix posted:Yoshihiro is, arguably, the Best Dad in the series. He just wants Kira to succeed as a serial killer so much and will do anything to help him out. The whole point of his character is he's an awful parent who spoils his kid rotten. Rather than raise him with good wholesome values like 'killing women for their hands is wrong' he enables his sons' every deviant behavior and probably the reason Yoshikage turns out as a serial killer rather than a weirdo with a hand fetish like JJL Kira. I think the best, living dad in the series is actually Jotaro, which is just sad.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 18:06
|
|
|
Severe lack of SUTANDOOOOOOOOOO POWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! when Jotaro freezes time in the OVA. The OVA is an encyclopedia of bad choices. e: also this bit  multijoe posted:The whole point of his character is he's an awful parent who spoils his kid rotten. Rather than raise him with good wholesome values like 'killing women for their hands is wrong' he enables his sons' every deviant behavior and probably the reason Yoshikage turns out as a serial killer rather than a weirdo with a hand fetish like JJL Kira. My friend Norisuke 
Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Apr 10, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 18:07
|
|
|
Part 6 my not be the best part, but it's my favourite part because it's probably the most surreal Jojo has ever been. There are moments in the entire series that are baffling, bizarre and just plain strange, but after a certain point Stone Ocean never lets up, to the point it almost seems like you're reading automatic writing. It isn't as strong thematically as Part 7, and it doesn't have the small character moments of Part 4, but I love the main crew and if there had been more downtime with them I wouldn't hesitate to put it at the top of my list. Edit: poo poo, this thread moves fast. Apes-Ma fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Apr 10, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 18:11
|
|
|
I don't think Jotaro counts as living either if we're counting good dads through the entire series.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 18:13
|
|
|
Johnny Joestar posted:also the baby part in DiU is basically entirely about characterizing old joseph and having him connect with his son and part 6 is entirely separate from part 5 along with having good translations, so i'm not sure why someone would skip that specifically yet read the bits afterwards. I skipped it because i was so disgusted by Gio beating Diavolo by Gold Experience Requiem getting a god mode that i felt the series had jumped the shark. I knew ahead of time that 7 was a universe reset so thought part 6 could only get worse from that point and Araki felt the same way which lead to him having the universe reset to reign it back in. The way the series was pitched to me that got me started reading it was that the characters had strange powers and used them in creative ways, and the heroes won by outsmarting the villains rather than just overpowering them. I was fine with Joseph's rear end pulls like the grenade scarf trick because it was used in a comic way. Resolving the final battle against a psychopathic mob boss in you 150 chapter battle manga with "and then the hero powered up and gained god powers" is just lazy writing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 18:15
|
|
|
I have to admit I've not yet read JJL, I only know it has less evil-Kira, but as Norisuke is still alive I guess he does win by default
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 18:16
|
|
|
Think less "less evil" and more "actual best boy and undoubtedly the most heroic" Kira.CJ posted:I skipped it because i was so disgusted by Gio beating Diavolo by Gold Experience Requiem getting a god mode that i felt the series had jumped the shark. I knew ahead of time that 7 was a universe reset so thought part 6 could only get worse from that point and Araki felt the same way which lead to him having the universe reset to reign it back in. The way the series was pitched to me that got me started reading it was that the characters had strange powers and used them in creative ways, and the heroes won by outsmarting the villains rather than just overpowering them. I was fine with Joseph's rear end pulls like the grenade scarf trick because it was used in a comic way. Resolving the final battle against a psychopathic mob boss in you 150 chapter battle manga with "and then the hero powered up and gained god powers" is just lazy writing. The entire point of Gio vs Diavolo is that the first to use the arrow to get their Stand Requiem will win the fight. And then the first to get the arrow wins the fight. It's not like it's not the premise going in.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 18:21
|
|
|
Gotta say this avatar someone bought me is a lot less interesting than the last one. You could have at least put a Bruno tasting Giorno or something.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 18:21
|
|
|
Norisuke is the best JoJo dad cause this is how he and his kids interact 
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 18:23
|
|
|
CJ posted:I like the parts that are interesting. ... Fake edit: Part 5 has a weak ending if you're looking for an actual fight and not just a race for a fight-ending magical item, but the first few volumes are so good and everything through at least The Grateful Dead is top-tier Jojo and I love it. Real edit:  Norisuke is the best dad. Amaryllis fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Apr 10, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 18:24
|
|
|
Moltrey posted:Norisuke is the best JoJo dad cause this is how he and his kids interact 
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 18:27
|
|
|
Amaryllis posted:I'm sort of with you about a lot of the pre-Egypt fights, though I think the real problem is not that the villains are bad, but that the anime version has terrible pacing for some of those fights (The Sun is the worst offender, as I think people have noted either here or in the other thread). There's something of value in every arc of Part 3, whether it's a character beat, a rad action sequence, or just a funny gag, but it suffers a little when you're forced to take 25-ish minutes to work through each fight instead of speeding up or slowing down at your own pace. I read the whole manga because i could get through it pretty quickly and i could appreciate the art. I stopped watching the anime after Wheel of Fortune because the direction and editing was so uninspiring and the source material for a lot of it wasn't that great so i didn't see a reason to continue watching. I started watching DiU just out of morbid curiosity at how badly they'd butcher it, but i'm amazed at how much better it is and i can't wait to see more. The animation looked a bit off in the previews but it's completely solid in the actual episodes and the pacing/direction/editing is leagues ahead of SC. Also i think the art style fits animation a lot better than the art style of SC. I think they did a really bad job of translating the SC art style to animation. Jotaro especially looks so awkward and mechanical. It's just not nice to look at.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 18:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 11:38 |
|
|
I'm starting to think you just don't like Jojo, dude.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 18:48
|
|
