UKMT April 2016: David Cameron's P19 Form

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT April 2016: David Cameron's P19 Form

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Gonzo McFee: Jun 19, 2010

Elton John's husband is a dirty slag.

# ? Apr 10, 2016 19:45

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 21:09

stev: Jan 22, 2013; Please be excited.

serious gaylord posted:

Well yes. Its not difficult to find out who the people in the injunction are. It would sell a poo poo load of papers.

How do these two statements not contradict each other.

Britian. That's how.

# ? Apr 10, 2016 19:48

feedmegin: Jul 30, 2008

happyhippy posted:

So do you think a straight couple who cheat around are good parents then?

Im not sure a threesome is 'cheating around'.

# ? Apr 10, 2016 19:49

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

happyhippy posted:

So do you think a straight couple who cheat around are good parents then?

It's not exactly cheating around if both of you invite a third person to have some fun with you, is it?

# ? Apr 10, 2016 19:50

happyhippy: Feb 21, 2005; Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup; Pillbug

Ok, I'm a fuckwit who can't read.

# ? Apr 10, 2016 19:51

TheHoodedClaw: Jul 26, 2008

serious gaylord posted:

How do you even get that from what I posted? Did you even read it? I said THE MIRRORS narrative. You know the paper that hates gays, immigrants and benefit scroungers.

The Daily Mirror? I rarely see a copy here in Scotland, but I thought it was fairly OK about that stuff?

# ? Apr 10, 2016 19:54

hookerbot 5000: Dec 21, 2009

Darth Walrus posted:

It's not exactly cheating around if both of you invite a third person to have some fun with you, is it?

I think one of the celebrity couple went to have fun with another couple, but I think that was an established agreement in their relationship - it's not really cheating if no one is being lied to or forced to go along with something they are unhappy with.

# ? Apr 10, 2016 19:55

Gonzo McFee: Jun 19, 2010

Darth Walrus posted:

It's not exactly cheating around if both of you invite a third person to have some fun with you, is it?

It is if it's with another couple.

# ? Apr 10, 2016 19:56

TheHoodedClaw: Jul 26, 2008

Gonzo McFee posted:

It is if it's with another couple.

And it's not if the original couple have an open relationship, which seems to be the case here.

# ? Apr 10, 2016 20:01

Thanks Ants: May 21, 2004; #essereFerrari

They're just getting upset and pretending it's an issue about reporting in the modern world because Jan Moir has some disapproving to do.

# ? Apr 10, 2016 20:02

OvineYeast: Jul 16, 2007; Freiheit ist immer Freiheit der Andersdenkenden

Meanwhile...

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/10/universal-credit-cuts-to-lose-low-income-families-up-to-200-a-month

# ? Apr 10, 2016 20:03

happyhippy: Feb 21, 2005; Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup; Pillbug

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...l-West-End.html

Bets on its someone from the cast?

# ? Apr 10, 2016 20:03

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

Renaissance Robot posted:

That definitely doesn't sound totally fake.

It isn't fake. Some celeb was shagging around and took out a super-injunction to prevent the papers reporting on it, but it turns out that English super-injunctions don't apply in Scotland so some Scottish paper is running with it to make some kind of a point and definitely not to air someone's dirty laundry.

# ? Apr 10, 2016 20:07

TheHoodedClaw: Jul 26, 2008

happyhippy posted:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...l-West-End.html

Bets on its someone from the cast?

Probably not, but that article is a classic example of what Popbitch are talking about here:

http://popbitch.com/home/2016/03/31/up-the-injunction/

# ? Apr 10, 2016 20:09

baka kaba: Jul 19, 2003; PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

OvineYeast posted:

Meanwhile...

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/10/universal-credit-cuts-to-lose-low-income-families-up-to-200-a-month

Yeah? If you're on minimum wage you can just work an extra 30hr week every month to cover it, no big deal

A 38hr week if you're under 21! Somewhere to direct all that energy and keep you out of mischief!

# ? Apr 10, 2016 20:13

XMNN: Apr 26, 2008; I am incredibly stupid

im glad the courts are able to stop the gutter press making money off prurient stories about people's private lives even if it is a little bit absurd given its a few keystrokes away for anyone with an internet connection

# ? Apr 10, 2016 20:14

stev: Jan 22, 2013; Please be excited.

XMNN posted:

im glad the courts are able to stop the gutter press making money off prurient stories about people's private lives even if it is a little bit absurd given its a few keystrokes away for anyone with an internet connection

It would be nice if they could stop them from whining about it too.

# ? Apr 10, 2016 20:15

Taear: Nov 26, 2004; Ask me about the shitty opinions I have about Paradox games!

Steve2911 posted:

How do these two statements not contradict each other.

Britian. That's how.

It's not unique to Britain. Most people don't understand the internet and don't use twitter. They have no way of getting to the story.

The sheer volume of interent users who think google and their address bar are the same thing and search everything makes me wonder why adverts even bother putting the web address on them.

# ? Apr 10, 2016 20:22

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Taear posted:

It's not unique to Britain. Most people don't understand the internet and don't use twitter. They have no way of getting to the story.

The sheer volume of interent users who think google and their address bar are the same thing and search everything makes me wonder why adverts even bother putting the web address on them.

They don't anymore. Adverts just say 'search x' now

# ? Apr 10, 2016 20:24

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Malcolm XML posted:

any competent tax accountant will be up to date on tax planning schemes. find a better one.

This is sort of missing my point. I'm unemployed. My previous job was barely above minimum wage. I don't have a tax accountant. Nor do the majority of people I know. This is the disconnect. Yeah, in theory every pleb can have access to these services, but that's theory only & it's totally oblivious to pretend otherwise. Tax avoidance is realistically only available to people with a certain level of financial comfort. Not plebs.

# ? Apr 10, 2016 20:29

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

I don't have a tax accountant.

# ? Apr 10, 2016 20:55

DrWrestling69: Feb 4, 2008; Tracyanne...

Taear posted:

It's not unique to Britain. Most people don't understand the internet and don't use twitter. They have no way of getting to the story.

The sheer volume of interent users who think google and their address bar are the same thing and search everything makes me wonder why adverts even bother putting the web address on them.

Google and my address bar are the same thing

# ? Apr 10, 2016 21:24

big scary monsters: Sep 2, 2011; -~Ｓｋｕｌｌｗａｖｅ~-

baka kaba posted:

Oh sweet, did they say what's responsible for the drop?

# ? Apr 10, 2016 21:50

Pesmerga: Aug 1, 2005; So nice to eat you

The current head of HMRC formerly worked for Simmons and Simmons, the law firm that represented Blairmore Holdings, and spent his time advising corporations on how to reduce their tax burdens, describing taxation as 'legalised extortion'.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/10/hmrc-chief-partner-law-firm-offshore-fund-cameron

# ? Apr 10, 2016 22:14

baka kaba: Jul 19, 2003; PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

quote:

Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and other leading figures campaigning for Britain to leave the EU could be offered senior cabinet roles after June’s referendum, under plans being considered by the prime minister.

Sources have told the Guardian that David Cameron is keen to undertake a “unity reshuffle” in an attempt to heal wounds in the party, whose Eurosceptic wing is furious at the government’s handling of the plebiscite.

Downing Street riled swaths of the party last week with the announcement that it was spending £9m of taxpayers’ money to send a pro-EU leaflet to 27m homes. The Conservative MP and leading Brexit campaigner Bernard Jenkin said some of his colleagues were “incandescent” about the move.

The Sunday Times reported that Johnson could be asked to step into one of the cabinet’s most senior roles, such as health, home or foreign secretary, while Gove could be appointed deputy prime minister.

It said Downing Street was working on a “save Dave” plan, and “peace talks” had been held between senior aides of the prime minister and the London mayor.

Lol forever

# ? Apr 10, 2016 22:30

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Pesmerga posted:

The current head of HMRC formerly worked for Simmons and Simmons, the law firm that represented Blairmore Holdings, and spent his time advising corporations on how to reduce their tax burdens, describing taxation as 'legalised extortion'.

I've seen that argument come up a lot in comment threads from the current fallout.

Now, if they want to go the whole way and stop any state involvement or interference in anything, including private land ownership and limited company formation, then I have a few texts that could help them with that :anarchists:

, but I was under the impression that all their classical darlings from Smith to Mill to Malthus conceded that tax and central government were necessary in order to protect the free market framework that they so love.

Everyone seems to have forgotten that in the 'new' wave of post-Thatcherite neolibs though.

# ? Apr 10, 2016 22:38

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

serious gaylord posted:

He has got a point though. Its not stealing and trying to equate the two things just makes your point seem absurd and reactionary which generally serves to make any serious part of your post get glossed over. The fact of the matter is yes, he really did nothing wrong. There is no law against what he did and as such it is not theft.

You can debate about the morality of someone who's calling people who use these loopholes immoral in public while using them himself and what that says about his suitability to hold public office, but it doesnt change the fundamental fact that every person in the UK is able to do the same thing. Until that changes the only thing hes done wrong is call people immoral for doing exactly what he does. It is morally reprehensible to avoid paying tax when you can afford to do so, and it is morally reprehensible that its only the people that can most afford to pay tax that do this, but its still not illegal. If both sides of the argument act like reactionary children, whats the point in even having it?

It is theft, it is not illegal but it is theft by the reasoning that theft is taking something that does not rightly belong to you.

A central pillar of socialist thought is that what is legally enshrined is not the same as what is, and isn't, theft. A landlord taking the products of your labor simply because he can make the state punish you for occupying a patch of land, is theft. It is immoral and meets any reasonable moral definition of theft. The law simply does not prosecute it because the law is not moral.

Similarly, that the wealthy can avoid paying tax by virtue of having a lot of money, and the poor cannot, the poor are paying for the services the wealthy benefit from, that is theft also.

# ? Apr 10, 2016 22:51

Fans: Jun 27, 2013; A reptile dysfunction

OwlFancier posted:

It is theft, it is not illegal but it is theft by the reasoning that theft is taking something that does not rightly belong to you.

Don't we rely on the government to decide what rightly belongs to you and what doesn't though? That's why we have the Courts and not the Thunderdome and why so much of law is about Possession and who is entitled to it.

So if the government says Tax rightly belongs to them they're in a pretty good position on this one.

# ? Apr 10, 2016 22:55

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Fans posted:

Don't we rely on the government to decide what rightly belongs to you and what doesn't though? That's why we have the Courts and not the Thunderdome and why so much of law is about Possession and who is entitled to it.

So if the government says Tax rightly belongs to them they're in a pretty good position on this one.

Well, no, we don't, because otherwise we would all be tories.

We rely on our moral judgement to determine what is right and wrong and expect the law to reflect that, and say the law is wrong when it does not. We might still follow the law but we don't allow it to dictate what we think.

# ? Apr 10, 2016 22:57

Fans: Jun 27, 2013; A reptile dysfunction

Actually, I think we've learned that when it comes to paying your Tax the Tories are not really ones to care too much about it.

And while it's great to say you can ignore the law when you don't like it, that doesn't actually resolve the issue of who owns what when the issue is contested. Both sides say "It's mine" how do you arbitrate without a government? Thunderdome?

# ? Apr 10, 2016 22:58

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

I think we may be arguing past each other a bit.

# ? Apr 10, 2016 22:59

Fans: Jun 27, 2013; A reptile dysfunction

Yeah probably, sorry!

# ? Apr 10, 2016 23:03

Gonzo McFee: Jun 19, 2010

OH WELL NOW WOULD YOU LOOK AT THAT

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/10/hmrc-chief-partner-law-firm-offshore-fund-cameron?CMP=share_btn_tw

quote:

The boss of Revenue & Customs (HMRC), the government department overseeing a �10m inquiry into the Panama Papers, was a partner at a top City law firm that acted for Blairmore Holdings and other offshore companies named in the leak.

Edward Troup, executive chair of HMRC since April, is a former partner at Simmons & Simmons, whose clients have included the Panama-registered fund created by David Cameron�s father, Ian.

The law firm�s name appears on dozens of emails and documents in the Panama Papers in connection with a number of companies registered with Mossack Fonseca, the offshore agent at the centre of the scandal, although HMRC said Troup had not personally dealt with the firm. Some correspondence dates back to 2003, when Troup was still a partner. The first emails to Mossack Fonseca regarding Blairmore date from 2005. It is understood that Simmons & Simmons was advising Blairmore from 2001.

There is no suggestion of wrongdoing by Troup, Simmons & Simmons or any of its clients, and nothing in the files that indicates Troup personally advised any offshore company registered with Mossack Fonseca.

Cameron announced on Saturday that HMRC would be working with the National Crime Agency to lead a �world-class� taskforce to investigate allegations of tax dodging and money laundering brought to light by the leak of 11.5 million files from the Panama law firm. A unit with initial funding of �10m is being set up, which will also bring together specialists from the Serious Fraud Office and the Financial Conduct Authority. Officials have already started investigating some 700 current leads with a link to Panama.

The revelation comes as:

� Cameron prepares to make a statement to parliament in which he will reject any suggestion of wrongdoing by himself or his father and insist that his government �has done more than any other to take action against corruption in all its forms�.

� Labour called for a public inquiry into the Panama revelations and a change to parliamentary rules to make it mandatory for MPs to publish details of any offshore holdings.

� There were suggestions that all MPs should publish their tax details after the unprecedented decision by Cameron to do so over the weekend.

� A Treasury source insisted that the chancellor, George Osborne, had �never had any offshore shareholdings� and said his income and interests were straightforward but that he had no plans to publish his financial records.

Troup, who described taxation as �legalised extortion� in a 1999 newspaper article, built a career advising corporations on how to reduce their tax bills before leaving Simmons & Simmons to join the civil service in 2004.

Simmons & Simmons is reported to be among a number of legal practices that received letters last week from the legal watchdog asking them to inspect their files for connections to Mossack Fonseca. The Solicitors Regulation Authority is understood to have written to Simmons & Simmons asking it to carry out a review. Troup worked at the firm from 1997 until 2004, when he left to join the Treasury as head of corporate tax policy. He joined HMRC in 2012 to oversee large corporate tax settlements.

While working in the City, Troup led the opposition to reforms put forward by Gordon Brown to curb corporate tax avoidance in 1999, putting out a press release headed: �City lawyers call on government to withdraw proposals to tackle tax avoidance.� He criticised the proposed laws for giving �wide-reaching� powers to the Inland Revenue.

The leaked Panama Papers appear to show Simmons & Simmons offices in London and Hong Kong were registered as clients or intermediaries with Mossack Fonseca. This means they were able to request certificates or new incorporations on behalf of the ultimate owners of companies. Usually, Mossack Fonseca did not deal with company owners directly, but preferred to handle business through intermediaries such as lawyers and accountants.

For Blairmore, the Panama-registered fund run by Ian Cameron, there is a long string of emails regarding the fund�s decision to stop using bearer shares � anonymous financial instruments that belong to the person holding them in their hand, much like banknotes. Though they are legal, bearer shares have been abolished in many countries because they have been used by mobsters and tax evaders for money laundering. There is no suggestion that Blairmore was using them for any illegal purpose, and they were common among offshore funds at the time.

In 2008, when Blairmore was considering a change of jurisdiction, Simmons & Simmons asked Mossack Fonseca for advice on the benefits of other tax havens. An email dated 2 April 2008 stated: �Blairmore Holdings Inc are considering moving their Panama fund out of Panama into either the Cayman Islands or Bermuda. We have been instructed to prepare a memo on the fund industry in Bermuda and the Cayman Islands.�

The fund was founded in the early 1980s and still exists today. The Guardian has confirmed that in 30 years, Blairmore has never paid a penny of tax in the UK on its profits. There is no suggestion that Blairmore operated illegally.

An HMRC spokesperson said: �Before joining the civil service in 2004, Edward Troup had a successful career in the private sector, during the course of which he dealt with many companies. He can confirm that he never had any dealings with Mossack Fonseca, was unaware of the company until recently, and that none of the individuals or organisations named so far were clients that he advised. Edward Troup�s role in HMRC has never involved responsibility for operational activities or direct dealings with companies on their tax affairs. In any event, the governance in place at HMRC means that any commissioners who have a potential conflict of interest would exclude themselves from any investigation or settlement involving a taxpayer with which they had had dealings in their previous careers.�

Simmons & Simmons did not respond to a request for comment.

# ? Apr 10, 2016 23:22

Not Operator: Jan 1, 2009; Not A doctor, THE Doctor!

I think PF Dave was wrong. He literally couldn't have handled this better.

# ? Apr 10, 2016 23:44

Filboid Studge: Oct 1, 2010; And while they debated the matter among themselves, Conradin made himself another piece of toast.

Still no coverage of the Whittingdale goings-on. The British press are the most stunningly corrupt and craven institution. All of them.

# ? Apr 11, 2016 00:00

Taear: Nov 26, 2004; Ask me about the shitty opinions I have about Paradox games!

DrWrestling69 posted:

Google and my address bar are the same thing

A lot of people still use IE!

# ? Apr 11, 2016 00:08

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Taear posted:

A lot of people still use IE!

Those 'people' ... are idiots!!

# ? Apr 11, 2016 00:11

Malcolm XML: Aug 8, 2009; I always knew it would end like ｔｈｉｓ．

forkboy84 posted:

This is sort of missing my point. I'm unemployed. My previous job was barely above minimum wage. I don't have a tax accountant. Nor do the majority of people I know. This is the disconnect. Yeah, in theory every pleb can have access to these services, but that's theory only & it's totally oblivious to pretend otherwise. Tax avoidance is realistically only available to people with a certain level of financial comfort. Not plebs.

You don't need a tax accountant since you don't pay enough absolute tax where it would make a difference and neither do most people on salaries

If you have a business or contract or have legal assets abroad or do anything that isn't paye then it usually becomes a good idea because tax laws get complicated

# ? Apr 11, 2016 00:20

suck my woke dick: Oct 10, 2012; I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

Pissflaps posted:

Those 'people' ... are idiots!!

It could be worse, they could be using egde

# ? Apr 11, 2016 00:27

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 21:09

Puntification: Nov 4, 2009; Black Orthodontromancy
The most British Magic; Fun Shoe

tentish klown posted:

I've already said this - by all means call him a hypocrite for calling Jimmy Carr immoral when he was doing the same thing. It's legal and morally wrong for both the powerful and poor to do it.

Yes the rich made it legal to rob us through means only they can afford this is why I verbally abused you in the first place. You dumb poo poo.

# ? Apr 11, 2016 00:50

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT April 2016: David Cameron's P19 Form

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