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Schwarzwald posted:I haven't seen the Ewok movies since the mid 90s. Am I correct in remembering that the first movie ends with the rescue of a girls kidnapped family, and that the second movie begins with that family being unceremoniously killed?
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Apr 11, 2016 00:18
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Cnut the Great posted:
This is not true. The Naboo fighter is on autopilot and controlled by R2, he only presses a few buttons.
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Apr 11, 2016 00:46
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Baron Porkface posted:This is not true. The Naboo fighter is on autopilot and controlled by R2, he only presses a few buttons. Pretty sure R2 turns off the autopilot. Isn't Anakin is in control when he spins (because it's a good trick)?
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Apr 11, 2016 00:58
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Toilet Mouth posted:Pretty sure R2 turns off the autopilot. Isn't Anakin is in control when he spins (because it's a good trick)? I don't even remember. In what way does Anakin actually "outwit' the Trade Federation?
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Apr 11, 2016 00:59
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Baron Porkface posted:I don't even remember. I don't know, that wasn't my post. I don't imagine "outwit" is the right phrase- Anakins' solidly of the "feel, don't think" school. Anakin is like how the guy at the poker table who knows nothing about poker is the most dangerous guy. He doesn't have to "unlearn what he has learned" because he hasn't learned anything to begin with. General Dog fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 01:02
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Speaking of Anakin Jake Lloyd got diagnosed with Schizophrenia and I have to say Ep2 and 3 would have been way more awesome if Anakin looked like that instead of Hayden Christensen with a rat tail
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Apr 11, 2016 01:58
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Jerkface posted:Speaking of Anakin the phantom menace made me mentally ill [serious]
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Apr 11, 2016 02:46
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Man those movies and the fandom REALLY hosed that kid up.
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Apr 11, 2016 05:39
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I swore that it was pretty much well known he has schizophrenia. It came out after he beat his mom and crashed into a tree.
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Apr 11, 2016 06:09
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Toilet Mouth posted:the phantom menace made me mentally ill [serious] lol
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Apr 11, 2016 09:21
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Baron Porkface posted:This is not true. The Naboo fighter is on autopilot and controlled by R2, he only presses a few buttons. Artoo takes the fighter off autopilot and Anakin makes a choice not to return to the safety of the hangar: The Phantom Menace posted:ANAKIN : (Cont'd) Yes...I've got control. You did it, Artoo! And just in case you were thinking of arguing the point: Anakin's claim that he's simply following Qui-Gon's instructions by joining the space battle is, obviously, not reflective of the actual reality of the situation, which Anakin knows full well. In fact, the line is clever in that it draws attention to the fact that Anakin is flouting Qui-Gon's instructions, while at the same time not coming across as unnatural narration. I'm not really sure what your point is anyway, because my whole point is that Anakin's random button mashing is what saves the day. The fighter only takes off from the hangar in the first place because Anakin is trying to find the control for the lasers so he can defend Padme from the droidekas, and in the process he accidentally activates the take-off sequence. Baron Porkface posted:I don't even remember. He "outwits" them by being clumsy and unpredictable. Just like I said in my post. My use of the word "outwit" was, of course, intentionally ironic. Jar Jar "outwits" the battle droids in the same way. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 10:44 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 10:36
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This is a little off topic for where the discussion is now, but it's something I don't think I've seen brought up in this thread: A lot of people claim that one negative element of TFA is that it "undoes" the progress and success of Luke, Leia, et al. in ROTJ. The thing is, if you listen to Yoda's advice in ESB, you should already know that this will happen. Yoda directly tells Luke that "If you leave now, help them you could; but you would destroy all for which they have fought, and suffered."
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Apr 11, 2016 16:04
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Chill Penguin posted:This is a little off topic for where the discussion is now, but it's something I don't think I've seen brought up in this thread: An interesting way to look at it! I personally really want to see more of the intervening time between RotJ and TFA before I start throwing around "ruined" or "undoes" or whatever...while Episode VII throws us straight into the kickoff of open hostilities between the First Order and the Republic and Resistance, who knows how much relative peacetime there was in there too.
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Apr 11, 2016 16:12
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Chill Penguin posted:This is a little off topic for where the discussion is now, but it's something I don't think I've seen brought up in this thread: Yoda is not necessarily correct. Also he says in the next movie that Luke's a Jedi and he really just needs to kill his dad and peace out.
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Apr 11, 2016 16:23
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Chill Penguin posted:A lot of people claim that one negative element of TFA is that it "undoes" the progress and success of Luke, Leia, et al. in ROTJ. The thing is, if you listen to Yoda's advice in ESB, you should already know that this will happen. Yoda directly tells Luke that "If you leave now, help them you could; but you would destroy all for which they have fought, and suffered."
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Apr 11, 2016 16:27
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I'm amazed that TFA managed to reduce the already rather shallow Rebel-Imperial conflict to the level of G.I Joes vs. Cobra.
BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 17:27
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Chill Penguin posted:This is a little off topic for where the discussion is now, but it's something I don't think I've seen brought up in this thread: I hear you but Yoda and Obi-Wan are consistently manipulative, wrong and bad about basically everything, including that
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Apr 11, 2016 17:37
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Cheesus posted:I like your attempt, but I think for it to have merit as the author's intent, it has to be followed through on screen with ROTJ ending with the destruction of the Rebellion Starfleet and the Death Star not being blown up. Hmm, good point, but 2 notions immediately come to mind: 1) The Star Wars saga was intentionally left open-ended by Lucas. Lines like this are open to interpretation by future collaborators. 2) Star Wars is a collaborative story. Kasdan, Abrams, the Clone Wars people, et al. People pick up on hanging plot threads. See #1
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Apr 11, 2016 17:39
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Chill Penguin posted:This is a little off topic for where the discussion is now, but it's something I don't think I've seen brought up in this thread: Well, for one thing, Luke didn't really manage to help his friends (except as a complete fluke due to his bringing Artoo along). In fact, his friends ended up having to turn back from their escape so that they could rescue him. And the danger Yoda spoke of was specifically that Luke, by rushing to face Vader with his unfinished training, would end up succumbing to the lure of the dark side. That didn't happen, but only because Luke was willing to commit suicide instead. What all this has to do with anything that happens in the post-ROTJ/pre-TFA timeline I have no idea.
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Apr 11, 2016 17:54
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I'm calling it, Jyn Erso is the daughter of that imperial officer.
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Apr 11, 2016 18:01
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Chill Penguin posted:This is a little off topic for where the discussion is now, but it's something I don't think I've seen brought up in this thread: There are two problems I have with this. The first is that the consequences of Luke leaving to help his friends were already shown, and they weren't so subtle as to only lead to the fall of the New Republic thirty years down the line. They were immediate and visible. My second problem is that line already has payoff, in AotC. Yoda already made Luke's mistake when he sent the Jedi and the Clone Army to rescue Padme, Anakin, and Obiwan, and the consequences of doing so lead to the very galactic war Padme and the Jedi had tried to prevent. Arguably, that mistake happened earlier as well, when the Jedi council advises Padme to leave Coruscant because her opposition to the creation of a Republic Army makes her a target, and in her absence the measure to create such an Army passes. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 18:07
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Cnut the Great posted:Well, for one thing, Luke didn't really manage to help his friends (except as a complete fluke due to his bringing Artoo along). In fact, his friends ended up having to turn back from their escape so that they could rescue him. The line about completing his training/turning to the dark side is a separate concept. I think what I'm getting at is that Yoda's prediction that Luke leaving Dagobah will lead to the reversal of all of their progress is correct, in that Luke "saving" Anakin disrupts the balance that Darth Vader brought to the force. This imbalance leads to Kylo Ren murdering Luke's students, and ultimately the total destruction of the Republic. What we are left with is a new balance: two insurgent factions, two masters, and two apprentices. Here's another question: had Luke remained on Dagobah and completed his training, would he still have had that fateful encounter with Vader in which he learns the truth about his father?
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Apr 11, 2016 18:08
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Chill Penguin posted:This is a little off topic for where the discussion is now, but it's something I don't think I've seen brought up in this thread: As noted, Yoda is talking about Luke joining Darth Vader. And then think about what this means: why would joining vader ruin everything? the only answer is that Vader represents a horrifying truth that Yoda is trying to conceal (as Gary Oldman does in The Dark Knight). Yoda lies because he's afraid the rebellion is too weak to handle the truth. The implication in TFA is that Kylo came to this same realization, and so deliberately set out to 'destroy all for which they have fought, and suffered.'
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Apr 11, 2016 18:09
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Schwarzwald posted:There are two problems I have with this. The first is that the consequences of Luke leaving to help his friends were already shown, and they weren't so subtle as to have only lead to the fall of the New Republic thirty years down the line. They were immediate and visible. What happened to Luke's friends as a result of his early departure from Dagobah? From what I can recall, they are captured on Cloud City regardless of Luke's presence.
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Apr 11, 2016 18:12
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Schwarzwald posted:My second problem is that line already has payoff, in AotC. Yoda already made Luke's mistake when he sent the Jedi and the Clone Army to rescue Padme, Anakin, and Obiwan, and the consequences of doing so lead to the very galactic war Padme and the Jedi had tried to prevent. These are interesting examples of I guess what you could call retroactive foreshadowing, but they don't fulfill Yoda's warning.
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Apr 11, 2016 18:16
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For the sake of argument, lets say that Star Wars 8 (or 9, or 10, or N) does reveal that Chill Penguins idea was correct, and that the reason the New Republic was ultimately destroyed could be directly mapped back to Luke leaving to rescue his friends back in Star Wars 5. Would any of us be satisfied with that?
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Apr 11, 2016 18:17
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Chill Penguin posted:Hmm, good point, but 2 notions immediately come to mind: 1) Well, not really at all, actually. He was actually extremely controlling of his vision and had very specific ideas about how everything was supposed to play out and what it was supposed to mean. For a long while he was pretty vocally set against anyone else ever making any sequels set after ROTJ, and only changed his tune when it became apparent his company's long-term future depended on it. You've just described the complete opposite of reality, at least when it comes to Lucas's creative mindset. 2) It's not a hanging plot thread. Yoda was afraid Luke wasn't ready to face Vader. He was proven right. Vader almost had him. If Luke hadn't jumped, he would have been compelled to join Vader. Luke managed to narrowly avoid that fate (seemingly by the grace of the Force itself), but that doesn't mean Yoda's words were without merit. Luke hosed up so badly that his only options were to either turn evil or kill himself. Ultimately, Luke learned from his near-catastrophic failure in TESB and went on to triumph in ROTJ. Plot thread closed.
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Apr 11, 2016 18:23
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Chill Penguin posted:What happened to Luke's friends as a result of his early departure from Dagobah? From what I can recall, they are captured on Cloud City regardless of Luke's presence. The consequences were that Luke nearly loses his faith, nearly loses his life, and impedes their escape. Chill Penguin posted:These are interesting examples of I guess what you could call retroactive foreshadowing, but they don't fulfill Yoda's warning. They don't fulfill Yoda's warning, but they more fully contextualize it. It's similar to how Yoda advises Luke that "wars not make one great," while Yoda himself was a powerful general combatant and general.
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Apr 11, 2016 18:25
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Yoda's warning is pretty self-contained - if Luke hadn't showed up Lando would have helped Leia and Chewie escape (without having to go back and save Luke). Instead Luke risked joining Vader and dooming the Rebellion.
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Apr 11, 2016 18:25
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McDowell posted:Yoda's warning is pretty self-contained - if Luke hadn't showed up Lando would have helped Leia and Chewie escape (without having to go back and save Luke). Instead Luke risked joining Vader and dooming the Rebellion. They may have died anyway without Artoo there to help them. I don't think you're supposed to get hung up too much on that aspect, though. You're supposed to focus on what Luke accomplishes by specifically rushing to face Vader. In any case, the authorial intent is made pretty clear in the official ROTJ screenplay: Return of the Jedi posted:LUKE The point is that Luke himself didn't actually manage to do anything except impede his friends' escape. And he was lucky that was all the damage he did.
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Apr 11, 2016 18:53
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You achieved little except learned Vader is your father which I wasn't going to tell you for reasons. Turns out Jedi are just a bunch of liars who exist in a "but technically" universe.
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Apr 11, 2016 18:57
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Yoda's warning is right, but the prequels re- contextualize it to be less a sage prophecy and more the cynicism of someone tired of being reminded how much they got themselves and all of galactic society clowned (that Luke has shown up on his doorstep all blustery and wanting to learn to kick rear end is probably a pretty harsh reminder of how things turned out with Anakin). Yoda could have come clean with Luke about Vader, but he doesn't, he withdraws back to the same old forget about your friendship. That doesn't mean he's always wrong or incompetent, but again he's blind to the obvious course of action (tell Luke about Vader) in his fervor to give Luke a proper training regimen, because he assumes the only way to deal with Vader, an angry and powerful warrior who uses the force, is his death. He wasn't in the room with Anakin and Mace to see how that turned out. The audience learns a lot about the force because we see the movies via a bunch of different characters, but Yoda himself doesn't learn anything because as the top dog in the Jedi council he shuts himself out and stays at the top of an ivory tower. His conditions of his exile aren't much different even with the sheer amount of natural life around him, he's still stubborn in that regard. That's awesome. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 18:59
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Jake Lloyds been diagnosed with schizophrenia. Pretty fuckin sad. http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/star-wars-actor-jake-lloyd-diagnosed-with-schizophrenia-report-w202212
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Apr 11, 2016 19:15
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If Luke hadn't gone to Bespin Leia, Chewie and Lando would have been captured and/or killed by the Empire. R2 fixes the Falcon's hyperdrive, remember?
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Apr 11, 2016 20:36
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Gargamel Gibson posted:If Luke hadn't gone to Bespin Leia, Chewie and Lando would have been captured and/or killed by the Empire. R2 fixes the Falcon's hyperdrive, remember? The empire's sabotage was fixed by flipping a single lever. Lando and Leia could have fought off TIEs long enough for Chewie to figure it out.
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Apr 11, 2016 20:38
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jivjov posted:The empire's sabotage was fixed by flipping a single lever. Lando and Leia could have fought off TIEs long enough for Chewie to figure it out.
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Apr 11, 2016 20:43
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jivjov posted:The empire's sabotage was fixed by flipping a single lever. Lando and Leia could have fought off TIEs long enough for Chewie to figure it out. The Executor's tractor beam lock-on was imminent when Artoo activated the hyperdrive. Edit: I should've known not to bother in the Star Wars thread.
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Apr 11, 2016 20:44
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Cheesus posted:That seems unlikely given that Vader's ship was about to turn on the tractor beam just seconds before R2 flipped the switch that he knew about only because he talked to the Cloud City computer. I don't mean to be "that
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Apr 11, 2016 20:53
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Chill Penguin posted:I don't mean to be "that Nah because Vader wouldn't have been tied up fighting Luke, they probably would've waited for a while, realized their trap wasn't going to work, and then hosed off with their prisoners
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Apr 11, 2016 20:59
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Good points all around. The line just stuck out to me after re-watching the saga in this order: TFA Star Wars Episode 1+2 The Clone Wars (minus 'Lost Episodes') Sith Empire TCW Lost Episodes Jedi
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Apr 11, 2016 21:01
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