|
Libluini posted:Well, you could use spells to make them commanders! They already have a proper assassin commander with the scale walls ability though
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 18:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 11:05 |
|
|
If you take enough +gold you pretty much can't gently caress up pretender creation. If you have sacreds the same goes for N9 bless actually.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 19:08
|
|
|
What do you guys mean when you say a "scales" build? Like this:Sloppy Milkshake posted:i can't think of any nation that is bad with a scales build off hand. Also: when my pretender is present in a battle, does he benefit from a bless being cast?
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 19:16
|
|
|
Leperflesh posted:What do you guys mean when you say a "scales" build? Like this: After choosing a pretender chassis there are only 4 things you can modify: 1. Dominion score 2. Magic paths 3. Dominion scales 4. Awake/dormant/imprisoned So a scales build is just that. It's one where you spend most of your points improving your dominions scales. This means some combination of Order/Productivity/Growth/Magic, with luck and preferable climate to taste. This normally implies no bless or only a very weak bless (no major). The natural opposite is a bless build, in which you spend most of your points on improving your magic paths to the point that you get one or more major blesses (which start at level 9 for any given magic path). This usually necessitates taking negative scales in some combination of Turmoil/Sloth/Misfortune/Bad Climate, with Death or Drain if desperate. Scales builds are considered safe because more gold and more magic = more mages, more troops, and better spells, which are things that really can never go to waste. On the other hand bless/path builds can certainly be very powerful but must be more carefully considered because it is possible to waste a bunch of points with one. For example if your bless turns out to be ineffective or countered by the enemy, or if you get your god killed (permanently reducing his magic paths) before you can get off that sick nasty global enchantment you were planning. Pretenders do not benefit from bless. A bless specifically applies to sacred units and only sacred units. Since pretenders aren't technically sacred, no bless. Meme Poker Party fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Apr 10, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 19:23
|
|
|
Oh okay, that makes sense.Chomp8645 posted:Since pretenders aren't technically sacred This game 
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 19:29
|
|
|
Leperflesh posted:This game While it does seem a little lol that a literal god is not considered sacred I think the decision was made from a balance standpoint. Balancing Points/Paths/+PathCost/BaseDom/Slots/Stats is already asking a lot. Throwing blesses into the mix would turn an already daunting task into a nightmare.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 19:34
|
|
|
Also, your pretender being in battle automatically blesses every unit (every turn, in case your nation has sacred in-battle summons like Morrigans, Valkyries, or Ancestor Spirits). Finally, they're called scales because in older versions of the game, there were little pictures of balancing scales that would tip as you moved away from neutral.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 19:36
|
|
|
The scales pictures are still in the game, just hidden away in a little in-game menu. Also, a blessing is a gift from your god to their subjects; it'd be kind of weird for them to bless themselves, after all. It's probably a thing along the same lines as why they won't build temples to themselves but have someone else do it for them. That said, unless they changed it, disciples, which use "lesser" pretender chassis, do receive their god's blessing, so you can have fun with that in a disciples game if you ever play one of those.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 19:37
|
|
|
Can you forcibly bless a pretender by making it wear the Shroud of the Battle Saint?
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 19:38
|
|
|
Speleothing posted:Also, your pretender being in battle automatically blesses every unit Whaaaaa.... woah! You'd think it'd tell me this was happening in some way! Well I've been wasting a spell at the beginning of a quite a few battles, gently caress me Speleothing posted:Finally, they're called scales because in older versions of the game, there were little pictures of balancing scales that would tip as you moved away from neutral. Oh I knew they were called scales, it's just a "scales build" wasn't obvious to me that it meant, focusing your points on improving your scales. I think when I built my second pretender (I've built two so far) I used some scales going down to get points to make other scales go up, so I wasn't really thinking of it in terms of a category that you do or do not build.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 19:40
|
|
|
Speaking of blessed units- when your pretender is in a battle, don't sacred units automatically get blessed without needing a priest? I remember hearing about this a while back but haven't tested it myself. e. Should've refreshed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 19:41
|
|
|
Safety Factor posted:Can you forcibly bless a pretender by making it wear the Shroud of the Battle Saint?
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 20:16
|
|
|
Leperflesh posted:This game
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 20:37
|
|
|
Roland Jones posted:The scales pictures are still in the game, just hidden away in a little in-game menu. Also, a blessing is a gift from your god to their subjects; it'd be kind of weird for them to bless themselves, after all. It's probably a thing along the same lines as why they won't build temples to themselves but have someone else do it for them. Nah, it was always weird as gently caress. If I make the typical "goddess of nature" and to represent that I gave her N9, and my divine blessing also gives my sacred subjects regeneration, I think it would be logical that said goddess of nature also have natural, intrinsic regeneration on herself. Hell, how the Pretender is giving that power as gift to her subjects if she doesn't have the gift herself.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 20:42
|
|
|
She totally has regeneration in that case because at n9 she can easily cast personal regeneration!
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 21:01
|
|
|
TGG posted:She totally has regeneration in that case because at n9 she can easily cast personal regeneration! Only in battles, and then she has to spend a turn and some fatigue on it. The prophet gets its all the time. I think nature should give regen after a certain point like death gives fear (I think after 4 levels?)
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 21:13
|
|
|
jBrereton posted:It's considered gauche to build yourself a temple, and no self-respecting PG does it. To be fair, at least half of the nations imply that the pretender is inserting itself into the country's preexisting mythology and hijacking it
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 21:26
|
|
|
Enjoy posted:Only in battles, and then she has to spend a turn and some fatigue on it. The prophet gets its all the time. I disagree that Nature should give regen, the Nature pretenders are almost all extremely bulky and annoying as gently caress to fight already, plus you can build items to give innate regen anyway.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 21:53
|
|
|
Enjoy posted:Who made the Iram mods, the LA Iram seems to have a non-commander assassin unit but assassin doesn't do anything for non-commanders Yeah I know but they're the literal assassins so I left that in there as a flavour thing. Same as the insanity on the majnun units, for instance.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 23:23
|
|
|
So it seems like a common thing to build a giant doom stack and then quit when it gets wrecked. Seen that happen in a lot of LP's. I'm sure it's an overall strategy thing to ensure that you don't build a doom stack in the first place or something but how do you avoid losing the whole game when you lose the doom stack?
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 00:39
|
|
|
Washout posted:So it seems like a common thing to build a giant doom stack and then quit when it gets wrecked. Seen that happen in a lot of LP's. I'm sure it's an overall strategy thing to ensure that you don't build a doom stack in the first place or something but how do you avoid losing the whole game when you lose the doom stack? Make sure you've taken a lot of provinces and killed some of the enemy's stuff before the dudes died. The game is a meat grinder, feed it more meat.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 00:47
|
|
|
Washout posted:So it seems like a common thing to build a giant doom stack and then quit when it gets wrecked. Seen that happen in a lot of LP's. I'm sure it's an overall strategy thing to ensure that you don't build a doom stack in the first place or something but how do you avoid losing the whole game when you lose the doom stack? That tends to happen in the early to mid game if someone is running a bless strategy with cap-only troops. If they haven't gotten far enough to swap over to mages with escorts instead of armies, the loss of a doomstack can kill them. It's generally indicative of poor research priorities, staling, or terrible luck.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 00:50
|
|
|
Washout posted:So it seems like a common thing to build a giant doom stack and then quit when it gets wrecked. Seen that happen in a lot of LP's. I'm sure it's an overall strategy thing to ensure that you don't build a doom stack in the first place or something but how do you avoid losing the whole game when you lose the doom stack? Assuming absolutely no diplomacy (and this can help/hinder a lot), this includes, for example, (Lesser) elementals, special national summons, some kind of serious evocation, Flaming Arrows, some kind of stay-behind dickhead stealthy units that beat low PD, that kind of thing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 00:52
|
|
|
Washout posted:So it seems like a common thing to build a giant doom stack and then quit when it gets wrecked. Seen that happen in a lot of LP's. I'm sure it's an overall strategy thing to ensure that you don't build a doom stack in the first place or something but how do you avoid losing the whole game when you lose the doom stack? Cause enough damage before you lose it. Basically you should try to always be attacking in a war, since as long as you hold a province and the enemy doesn't you're getting income and denying it to them. Cripple someone enough and you'll be able to afford losses that they cannot. You still have to be careful though, since a lot of nations will have a capital mage corps that will be dangerous no matter what the situation is otherwise. Try not to be over reliant on something that you can't replace, a huge stack of dudes is for delivering the knockout blow through strangling forts or taking thrones. Basically expect that your cap only units will eventually get killed by magic, and use them in a way that allows you to profit before that happens and come back with a more replaceable army of mages and noncap stuff when it does; and don't put every unit you have into one battle unless you must do so to win or avoid losing. The riskiest transition is in year 2 when you might not have the noncap mages and research to replace an elite army that you've built up over the entire game to that point.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 01:15
|
|
|
Washout posted:So it seems like a common thing to build a giant doom stack and then quit when it gets wrecked. Seen that happen in a lot of LP's. I'm sure it's an overall strategy thing to ensure that you don't build a doom stack in the first place or something but how do you avoid losing the whole game when you lose the doom stack? tbh don't use giant doom stacks, because someone WILL notice and WILL devise the perfect magical counter to your big 'ol stack of mans that will eliminate them in a handful of turns with little to no losses of their own. As for not losing the whole game when you lose a doom stack - just don't ragequit. Find an ally, find a counter strategy, do something that isn't rolling over and going AI.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 13:57
|
|
|
ChickenWing posted:tbh don't use giant doom stacks, because someone WILL notice and WILL devise the perfect magical counter to your big 'ol stack of mans that will eliminate them in a handful of turns with little to no losses of their own. Case in point. Please don't do this.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 14:22
|
|
|
On the other hand, doom stacks are fun and then you lose them right around late game which saves you from having to deal with the annoying late game mechanics like communion and blood hunting/moving virgins. Doom stack- win the game by losing it
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 14:52
|
|
|
Also don't blindly smash your doomstack into another doomstack. Especially if the other guy has had a chance to see it in action and its composition/scripts. I'm often perfectly fine ceding a province just to get the measure of a deathstack to better be able to dunk it. This goes times infinity if you can just leave a bunch of seducers/assassins behind to decapitate stack leadership.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 17:19
|
|
|
Yo new players: is this guide the kind of thing that's useful to you?
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 17:42
|
|
|
Facing down a doom stack? History has ya covered. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_strategy When Fabius Maximus was facing down Hannibal's doom stack while playing EA Ermor, he recognised that facing it head on was suicide. Instead, avoid a large confrontation at all costs, wear it down by attrition, re-conquering every province it nabs with small raiding groups, and raid the ever-loving hell out of their most lucrative provinces. You might have a terrifying army on your door step, but their entire economy is tanked and half their empire belongs to you. In the mean time pump out the mages you need to smash the stupid thing and enough chaff to hold your forts up (call of the wind and summon wolves are good for this).
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 19:24
|
|
|
There are actually a lot of interesting strategies that can be employed in dom4 in regards to army deployments, maneuvers, and strategies. Especially in the early game when magic is less powerful/available (although still heavily dependent on nation/build). Two people just smashing doomstacks until one explodes is scrub level play.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 19:43
|
|
|
jBrereton posted:Yo new players: is this guide the kind of thing that's useful to you? I like the guide a lot, but I think it would be better in written form. 25 minute youtube video is kind of long. Or some kind of synopsis in the comments with pretender builds and the best early research targets to shoot for. I think pretender and early research are the most important parts of a guide at least.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 20:08
|
|
|
Washout posted:I like the guide a lot, but I think it would be better in written form. 25 minute youtube video is kind of long. Or some kind of synopsis in the comments with pretender builds and the best early research targets to shoot for. I think pretender and early research are the most important parts of a guide at least. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 20:36
|
|
|
Are you look at a different video, because there's not a cheat sheet in the one you just linked? Keep up the good work btw. The videos are good stuff.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 20:43
|
|
|
Bug Squash posted:Are you look at a different video, because there's not a cheat sheet in the one you just linked? Thanks for the feedback btw!
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 20:55
|
|
|
jBrereton posted:Nah it's an extra thing to think about including, not something I've added just yet. Love the "cheatsheets" Adding slightly more detailed pretender suggestions would be nice.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 21:35
|
|
|
Pop and Loch Nessy posted:Love the "cheatsheets" Adding slightly more detailed pretender suggestions would be nice.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 21:40
|
|
|
jBrereton posted:Nah it's an extra thing to think about including, not something I've added just yet. I am not a clever man  Cheat sheets would be fantastic. Something I was desperate for in my first few games were a few example pretender designs, as we really do forget how daunting it was to do that for the first time.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 21:57
|
|
|
Cheat sheets would be very appreciated, I haven't played Dom since 3 years and years ago and getting back in the saddle is proving difficult.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2016 01:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 11:05 |
|
|
jBrereton posted:How's about "cheat sheets" like this linked in the description? How do you forget to list Arco's healers as a strength? One of only four nations who can recruit them!
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2016 02:18
|
|