Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
ThePeavstenator
Dec 18, 2012

:burger::burger::burger::burger::burger:

Establish the Buns

:burger::burger::burger::burger::burger:
I buy singles

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Zoness
Jul 24, 2011

Talk to the hand.
Grimey Drawer

Yawgmoth posted:

I'm not an addict, I can quit any time I want to *grinds up a foil land, snorts a line*

Also I just want to pay $4 for this $25 card, is that so wrong?

Personally I cook foils on a spoon.

Agentdark
Dec 30, 2007
Mom says I'm the best painter she's ever seen. Jealous much? :hehe:
So I am looking at the various Thopter Lists? Is there is a list that is edging out to be the best, and do any of the decks playing thopter/sword run more then a 2/2 split.

I also put ground up basic lands on my eggs in the morning. Got to be ready for the tournament.

Elyv
Jun 14, 2013



Zoness posted:

Personally I cook foils on a spoon.

I have piles of foils on my apartment floor and don't know what they are and how much they're worth

Meatbag Esq.
May 3, 2006

Hmm which internet meme should go here again?

mandatory lesbian posted:

100$ isn't bad at all tho, like i could afford that if standard was something i ever wanted to do

Yeah 1-200 is my price range for standard assuming there is a deck I thin will be fun. Just not exited by mono white agro. Rather do something cool and fun.

P.s. Wizards, where is my turbo-fog clue wincon deck.

Molybdenum
Jun 25, 2007
Melting Point ~2622C

Agentdark posted:

So I am looking at the various Thopter Lists? Is there is a list that is edging out to be the best, and do any of the decks playing thopter/sword run more then a 2/2 split.

I also put ground up basic lands on my eggs in the morning. Got to be ready for the tournament.

I've seen lists with the full 4 of each.

Legacy decks like tezzerator usually run a 3/2 foundry/sword split but have brainstorm, transmute artifact and tezzeret to dig for them.

I've seen control lists with 4 of ancestral visions. This seems bad to me too, because beyond t1 they are really really bad top decks unless you're in a grindy attrition matchup but even then they don't do anything to the board or your hand for 4 dang turns.

suicidesteve
Jan 4, 2006

"Life is a maze. This is one of its dead ends.


Molybdenum posted:

I've seen lists with the full 4 of each.

Legacy decks like tezzerator usually run a 3/2 foundry/sword split but have brainstorm, transmute artifact and tezzeret to dig for them.

I've seen control lists with 4 of ancestral visions. This seems bad to me too, because beyond t1 they are really really bad top decks unless you're in a grindy attrition matchup but even then they don't do anything to the board or your hand for 4 dang turns.

They use Dack Fayden. You really don't want Brainstorm in your turn 1 Chalice of the Void deck. The only way I can see Ancestral Vision being particularly good is with infant Jace as a way to throw them away late in the game when you want to draw an actual card. Also possibly with Goblin Dank-Memers.

Mikujin
May 25, 2010

(also a lightning rod)

ThePeavstenator posted:

I can't speak to Magic but sports can be pretty tough. Kids have insane parents and adults can get loving crazy sometimes. At least there's adrenaline and intensity to back it up. Some smug 20-30 something playing rules lawyer seems like they'd be much worse to deal with.

Bad officials in sports have a bureaucracy they have to go through to be certified so someone that's in it for the power trip won't be in it for long. If you're friends with the L2 it seems like it's pretty hard to remove those guys from judging.

I have, on countless occasions, ejected parents from sporting events (this pretty much means exclusively in non-arena environments), and even a handful of times ejected coaches/team managers because I don't have time for their bullshit. Developing a no-nonsense attitude and demeanor takes time, and people can and will try to gently caress with you. The same is no less true for Magic players. If you aren't confidant and informed when you make a call (and sometimes even then) some players will have no problems stirring up poo poo just to get a rise out of you so they can appeal and try to use that ad hominem garbage to justify their appeal. Just like in sports officiating, judging in Magic should be done with a cool temperament because even at poo poo like FNM you'll sometimes just run into That Guy - you've all played against or near him, some of you are him - and they pop up even more at comp REL events.

As for abuse of power, it can happen anywhere. I've not run into it judging (yet), but I assume it's much harder to deal with a problematic judge who is friends with or associated with a TO than simply friends with another judge.

black potus
Jul 13, 2006

Zoness posted:

Personally I cook foils on a spoon.

(Richard Pryor continues to burn after Freebase Cocaine has left his system.)

Balon
May 23, 2010

...my greatest work yet.
My LGS opened their online store recently (~3 months ago) and subscribe to a database to price all their cards. However I've noticed it doesn't update dynamically - and not at all on weekends. This means that, as prices spike elsewhere, my LGS still has pre-spike prices available until Mondays.

I've snapped up a ton of fluctuating value this way recently. Is it wrong of me to capitalize on this and bleed my LGS for anything I can?

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Balon posted:

My LGS opened their online store recently (~3 months ago) and subscribe to a database to price all their cards. However I've noticed it doesn't update dynamically - and not at all on weekends. This means that, as prices spike elsewhere, my LGS still has pre-spike prices available until Mondays.

I've snapped up a ton of fluctuating value this way recently. Is it wrong of me to capitalize on this and bleed my LGS for anything I can?

Its wrong in the sense that virtually doing anything else could net you more profit for your time and capital commitment.

Brownhat
Jan 25, 2012

One cannot be a good person and enforce unjust laws.


Sickening posted:

Level1 should have the same process as the rules advisor does now. The only reason it doesn't is because that wouldn't be exclusive enough. Too much effort and headache for something that is essentially volunteer work.

As someone who frequently has to work with Yugioh judges, I can tell you making L1 an online test is a horrible idea. Rules knowledge alone doesn't make you a good judge.

Also, your friend should contact their Regional Coordinator. They can find them on this page: http://blogs.magicjudges.org/o/spheres/regional-coordinators/

The RC should be able to help your friend find an L2+ to help them certify.

Finally, there is a resource for people to report a bad experience with a judge: The Magic Judge Feedback Form, located here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1d01SoySBQxdhfv67yQhl2Sp7Zq9Ung9NDwjwekdqf1Q/viewform

If you're a player, judge, TO or anything in-between this form is there to report on good or bad experiences with judges. These go directly to the people in charge of the judge program, and you can enter them anonymously if you wish.

Zoness
Jul 24, 2011

Talk to the hand.
Grimey Drawer
Exciting news about cock(s) magic:

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20160411006121/en/Hasbro-Announces-Leadership-Wizards-Coast

BizarroAzrael
Apr 6, 2006

"That must weigh heavily on your soul. Let me purge it for you."

He's missing a trick if he doesn't grab @cockmagic on twitter.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Brownhat posted:

As someone who frequently has to work with Yugioh judges, I can tell you making L1 an online test is a horrible idea. Rules knowledge alone doesn't make you a good judge.

If only this couldn't get sorted out by a TO or anyone else involved with common sense. TO's are still going to decide who they want to use as judges and trying to have this convoluted vetting process at level1 is silly. Today's announcement has already cemented that level1 is about casual/normal rel and judges involved with competitive events should be l2's or people about to be l2. People shouldn't need to get RC's invovled over something as irrelevant as level1 judging.

I feel like the high level judges are wanting to outlaw level 1 head judges at small competitive events already today, it just seems they can't figure out a way to do that without pissing people off.

Sickening fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Apr 11, 2016

DAD LOST MY IPOD
Feb 3, 2012

Fats Dominar is on the case


It makes me sad to hear about judge misbehavior. Maybe I'm spoiled being from NE but our region has really fantastic judges who work hard. I've never had a situation where I've had to take a judge aside and explain to them why what they were doing wasn't ok. Granted, I've been lucky, and I don't doubt that it happens, but we have a great organization out here.

Alaan
May 24, 2005

I was briefly wondering if they had hired on an MS exec with technical background, but no just sales and marketing.

Yawgmoth
Sep 10, 2003

This post is cursed!
I'm glad that I've never met any truly bad judges, just a handful of judges who maybe don't realize that FNM isn't a Professional REL tournament and maybe you should chill the gently caress out a little. There's one judge I know who seems to forget this regularly; gave a kid at his first FNM a DQ because he didn't use the overly exacting several minute version of "winner gives the loser a pack". Didn't see that kid or any of his friends ever again, so great we lost ~4 new players because we gotta stick to the absolute letter of the rules and no the judge can't possibly offer a script for this thing that comes up every single week multiple times, we have to play "can I say this? no? what about this? well how about this?" and it's like dude, all anyone there wants is to have a more even curve to the prizes, why are you making this so difficult? What benefit is there to sending a second grader (or anyone) home empty handed from a casual event? No one remembers that as "thank god that judge enforced the absolute letter of the rules at this FNM, I would have been so mad if he let a little kid have any leeway over the possibility of a single loving pack!" Just let people divide the prizes up the way they want.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Yawgmoth posted:

I'm glad that I've never met any truly bad judges, just a handful of judges who maybe don't realize that FNM isn't a Professional REL tournament and maybe you should chill the gently caress out a little. There's one judge I know who seems to forget this regularly; gave a kid at his first FNM a DQ because he didn't use the overly exacting several minute version of "winner gives the loser a pack". Didn't see that kid or any of his friends ever again, so great we lost ~4 new players because we gotta stick to the absolute letter of the rules and no the judge can't possibly offer a script for this thing that comes up every single week multiple times, we have to play "can I say this? no? what about this? well how about this?" and it's like dude, all anyone there wants is to have a more even curve to the prizes, why are you making this so difficult? What benefit is there to sending a second grader (or anyone) home empty handed from a casual event? No one remembers that as "thank god that judge enforced the absolute letter of the rules at this FNM, I would have been so mad if he let a little kid have any leeway over the possibility of a single loving pack!" Just let people divide the prizes up the way they want.

He has to protect WOTC's IP for them.

PhyrexianLibrarian
Feb 21, 2004

Compleat silence, please

https://twitter.com/MelissaDeTora/status/719600379621605376

Because of course he did

mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004

If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!
Just got my second bye. Getting ready to waste alot of money traveling to GPs in the next year...

Jen X
Sep 29, 2014

To bring light to the darkness, whether that darkness be ignorance, injustice, apathy, or stagnation.

mcmagic posted:

Just got my second bye. Getting ready to waste alot of money traveling to GPs in the next year...

Good luck.

Dr. Stab
Sep 12, 2010
👨🏻‍⚕️🩺🔪🙀😱🙀

Yawgmoth posted:

I'm glad that I've never met any truly bad judges, just a handful of judges who maybe don't realize that FNM isn't a Professional REL tournament and maybe you should chill the gently caress out a little. There's one judge I know who seems to forget this regularly; gave a kid at his first FNM a DQ because he didn't use the overly exacting several minute version of "winner gives the loser a pack". Didn't see that kid or any of his friends ever again, so great we lost ~4 new players because we gotta stick to the absolute letter of the rules and no the judge can't possibly offer a script for this thing that comes up every single week multiple times, we have to play "can I say this? no? what about this? well how about this?" and it's like dude, all anyone there wants is to have a more even curve to the prizes, why are you making this so difficult? What benefit is there to sending a second grader (or anyone) home empty handed from a casual event? No one remembers that as "thank god that judge enforced the absolute letter of the rules at this FNM, I would have been so mad if he let a little kid have any leeway over the possibility of a single loving pack!" Just let people divide the prizes up the way they want.

This is, in my opinion, the worst part of the MTR by far. Even people playing at professional level don't really understand the rules for how bribery works.

AceClown
Sep 11, 2005

Just fuckin stop ID's, it makes no sense at all in a competitive environment

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011


AceClown posted:

Just fuckin stop ID's, it makes no sense at all in a competitive environment
They tried this, the alternative is much worse.

Zoness
Jul 24, 2011

Talk to the hand.
Grimey Drawer

AceClown posted:

Just fuckin stop ID's, it makes no sense at all in a competitive environment

ok but what makes a draw intentional?

Johnny Five-Jaces
Jan 21, 2009


mcmagic posted:

Just got my second bye. Getting ready to waste alot of money traveling to GPs in the next year...

enter into some bet again and lose it this time so i can pick your GP Columbus deck

AceClown
Sep 11, 2005

sarmhan posted:

They tried this, the alternative is much worse.

I know what the argument is and it goes "yeah but there's nothing stopping people playing land go and running the clock down" which would happen, but look at all other kinds of games, if I were in a local Pool tournament not at any kind of pro level and me and my opponent just kept hitting the same ball with no intentions of finishing the game someone would go "cut that poo poo out or you're both getting tossed out".

It's part a rules thing and part behaviours, if people knew it wasn't on and could call that poo poo out to the TO it wouldn't happen. If Wizards came out and said "ID's are against the spirit of competitive play" it wouldn't change overnight but it would gradually become accepted that you play your games the best you can.

Zoness
Jul 24, 2011

Talk to the hand.
Grimey Drawer

AceClown posted:

I know what the argument is and it goes "yeah but there's nothing stopping people playing land go and running the clock down" which would happen, but look at all other kinds of games, if I were in a local Pool tournament not at any kind of pro level and me and my opponent just kept hitting the same ball with no intentions of finishing the game someone would go "cut that poo poo out or you're both getting tossed out".

It's part a rules thing and part behaviours, if people knew it wasn't on and could call that poo poo out to the TO it wouldn't happen. If Wizards came out and said "ID's are against the spirit of competitive play" it wouldn't change overnight but it would gradually become accepted that you play your games the best you can.

I agree get rid of IDs but you get to be the guy that handles all the appeals on which draws were and weren't intentional.

For equivalent compensation to judges.

I mean basically dq anyone for playing anything but the best line that's collusion imo

Zoness fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Apr 11, 2016

Dr. Stab
Sep 12, 2010
👨🏻‍⚕️🩺🔪🙀😱🙀

What about it makes no sense in a competitive environment?

If you're in a situation where the winner advances and the loser doesn't, but if you draw, you both advance, it just makes sense to ID.

I know you're talking about IDs in exchange for prize splits, but this is still a thing that happens with IDs. You'd have to handle this situation if you wanted to get rid of IDs and not have it be insane.

Dr. Poz
Sep 8, 2003

Dr. Poz just diagnosed you with a serious case of being a pussy. Now get back out there and hit them till you can't remember your kid's name.

Pillbug
I was looking some stuff up and noticed that Verdant Catacombs, Misty Rainforest and Crucible of Worlds have doubled in price over the past year+ and was curious if anyone knows what pushed the value of these cards up so much? Is it a shift in meta or announcements about what will or wont be reprinted?

Zoness
Jul 24, 2011

Talk to the hand.
Grimey Drawer
The argument against IDs is that they make the last rounds of tournaments unexciting so here's an idea - let people play the last rounds for CASH (or promos or whatever since we're not gamblers here).

When there's no incentive to play rounds of a game it only makes sense that people will do things like get some food rather than play considering how little time there is to do things like get food during the course of a magic tournament.

Dr. Poz posted:

I was looking some stuff up and noticed that Verdant Catacombs, Misty Rainforest and Crucible of Worlds have doubled in price over the past year+ and was curious if anyone knows what pushed the value of these cards up so much? Is it a shift in meta or announcements about what will or wont be reprinted?

It's a combination of aggregate demand and speculation. For old format staples it's more on the aggregate demand side of the equation though.

Trilas
Sep 16, 2004

Dr. Stab posted:

What about it makes no sense in a competitive environment?

I'm of the mind that it's just really stupid that sometimes, when I'm playing in a Magic: The Gathering tournament, it's advantageous for me to not play Magic: The Gathering.

Zoness
Jul 24, 2011

Talk to the hand.
Grimey Drawer

Trilas posted:

I'm of the mind that it's just really stupid that sometimes, when I'm playing in a Magic: The Gathering tournament, it's advantageous for me to not play Magic: The Gathering.

Do you also dislike byes then.

I just mean that this argument is at best sensationalist and at worst reductionalist.

Dr. Stab
Sep 12, 2010
👨🏻‍⚕️🩺🔪🙀😱🙀

Trilas posted:

I'm of the mind that it's just really stupid that sometimes, when I'm playing in a Magic: The Gathering tournament, it's advantageous for me to not play Magic: The Gathering.

That's a nice ideal, but it doesn't actually solve the problem.

AceClown
Sep 11, 2005

Dr. Stab posted:

What about it makes no sense in a competitive environment?

If you're in a situation where the winner advances and the loser doesn't, but if you draw, you both advance, it just makes sense to ID.

I know you're talking about IDs in exchange for prize splits, but this is still a thing that happens with IDs. You'd have to handle this situation if you wanted to get rid of IDs and not have it be insane.

The closest I can think is football (Soccer) there are plenty of situations there where 2 teams drawing would be mutually beneficial but it's just not done.

Another one is Poker where chip dumping is something that happens but everyone knows it's lovely and if a casino or TO has good evidence it's happening then everyone involved gets thrown out.

You can't stop it happening completely but if you can change it so it has a "this is bad" mentality then it won't be as big of an issue.

odiv
Jan 12, 2003

Dr. Poz posted:

I was looking some stuff up and noticed that Verdant Catacombs, Misty Rainforest and Crucible of Worlds have doubled in price over the past year+ and was curious if anyone knows what pushed the value of these cards up so much? Is it a shift in meta or announcements about what will or wont be reprinted?

At least some of it is that Modern Masters 2015 got some new people into Modern and the enemy fetches haven't yet been reprinted.

Dr. Stab
Sep 12, 2010
👨🏻‍⚕️🩺🔪🙀😱🙀

AceClown posted:

The closest I can think is football (Soccer) there are plenty of situations there where 2 teams drawing would be mutually beneficial but it's just not done.

Another one is Poker where chip dumping is something that happens but everyone knows it's lovely and if a casino or TO has good evidence it's happening then everyone involved gets thrown out.

You can't stop it happening completely but if you can change it so it has a "this is bad" mentality then it won't be as big of an issue.

So, what solution is there besides having every match be supervised to see if the draw was in good sport or not?

Yawgmoth
Sep 10, 2003

This post is cursed!

Trilas posted:

I'm of the mind that it's just really stupid that sometimes, when I'm playing in a Magic: The Gathering tournament, it's advantageous for me to not play Magic: The Gathering.
I'm of the mind that I'd rather everyone get 4-6 packs than have myself get 8 packs and make everyone else go home with 2. Plus there's that part where you can take the ID, get your happy fun prizes, and then play anyways.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Trilas
Sep 16, 2004

Yawgmoth posted:

I'm of the mind that I'd rather everyone get 4-6 packs than have myself get 8 packs and make everyone else go home with 2. Plus there's that part where you can take the ID, get your happy fun prizes, and then play anyways.

Yeah, that was a dumb, unproductive thing of me to say, and I'm rightly being called on it.

  • Locked thread