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OddObserver posted:Whoa: Rada speaker Volodymyr Hroysman has withdrawn his candidacy for PM, as some of his conditions haven't been met. As Yataenyuk's resignation is supposed to be submitted tomorrow, things have gotten pretty strange. is Jaresko still considered a candidate?
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Apr 11, 2016 20:25
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Flavahbeast posted:is Jaresko still considered a candidate? Depends on how one defines it. She is interested, but under conditions of a technocratic government, and it's hard to get parliamentary backing w/o handing out ministries, so it doesn't seem likely except as a desperation move (it may be more attend than losing early elections!).
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Apr 11, 2016 20:33
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I bring 'wonderful' news from Poland - yesterday was the commemoration of the presidential plane crash at Smolensk and as you can imagine with the current government - it was an event highly televised on the national TV. One of the guests during the live discussion was the artistic director of TV Republika (a private TV station closely tied to PiS) and she stated that Donald Tusk should be given the highest possible penalty because of Smolensk (which was obviously an assassination) and the death penalty should be brought back to Polish law specifically for that occasion. The Marshal (Speaker) of the Sejm who represents Polish parliament and who basically holds the most important position in the Polish lower house commented that personally he's against death penalty but that "an absolute, severe prison sentence for Donald Tusk would suffice". Law and Justice everybody.
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Apr 11, 2016 20:45
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The news from Poland made me inspired to share some from Russia: today someone unveiled a 3m-tall statue of Zhirinovskiy, with "God save the Tzar" as the music for the ceremony.
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Apr 11, 2016 20:50
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On the other hand, good news everyone! Internal struggles whithin the party have led PiS to increasingly distance themselves from the proposed total abortion ban, instead openly pleading the clergy to accept some other offering e.g. religion as a matura exam subject (matura = SAT tests, more or less). Also, the national TV has been laughably bad ever since PiS purged all the staff and replaced them with party stooges. The Smolensk commemoration documentary they broadcast yesterday had a studio segment in a set so haphazardly made it visibly wobbled constantly, but the biggest blunder was a phone-in show using pre-recorded calls, which was revealed when someone forgot to turn off the autoloop. Basically it's Kaczynski trying to be Putin and failing miserably.
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Apr 11, 2016 21:16
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Palpek posted:I bring 'wonderful' news from Poland - yesterday was the commemoration of the presidential plane crash at Smolensk and as you can imagine with the current government - it was an event highly televised on the national TV. I really can't believe that anyone except the absolute fringe of PiS believe that Smolensk was anything other than a tragic accident. What possible reason would Tusk have to kill the President who was 20 points down in the polls for re-election. It boggles the mind. These people are clinically insane or despicable cynical opportunists of the worst order. I mean, last I remember, less than a third of Poles believe in the Assassination conspiracy theory so what's their play here politically speaking? Who are they trying to appeal to? In another bit of (not strictly related to but certainly influenced by) PiS news, a civil court rendered a verdict denying citizenship to four children of a gay couple living in the U.S. one of whom is Polish and has Polish citizenship (as well as American). Now the law in terms of citizenship is that as long as one of your parents is a citizen of Poland, you as their child have a right to citizenship. The hangup in this case is that the children's birth certificate lists both fathers as the birth parents and Polish courts refuse to accept that. They demanded to know who the children's mothers were and when they were told that would be impossible to provide because they were surrogates and didn't want their information given, the court denied the citizenship saying that it could not accept a birth certificate with two men listed on it.
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Apr 11, 2016 21:19
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A Pale Horse posted:I really can't believe that anyone except the absolute fringe of PiS believe that Smolensk was anything other than a tragic accident. What possible reason would Tusk have to kill the President who was 20 points down in the polls for re-election. It boggles the mind. These people are clinically insane or despicable cynical opportunists of the worst order. I mean, last I remember, less than a third of Poles believe in the Assassination conspiracy theory so what's their play here politically speaking? Who are they trying to appeal to? Oh.
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Apr 11, 2016 21:25
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A Pale Horse posted:I really can't believe that anyone except the absolute fringe of PiS believe that Smolensk was anything other than a tragic accident.
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Apr 11, 2016 21:56
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Pizdec posted:Also, the national TV has been laughably bad ever since PiS purged all the staff and replaced them with party stooges. The Smolensk commemoration documentary they broadcast yesterday had a studio segment in a set so haphazardly made it visibly wobbled constantly, but the biggest blunder was a phone-in show using pre-recorded calls, which was revealed when someone forgot to turn off the autoloop. They're TV Republika guys. I've been on there once and even the table was green screen.
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Apr 12, 2016 00:15
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Further update on PM saga in Ukraine: negotiations still going on, so Hroysman candidacy may be back on!
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Apr 12, 2016 01:11
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A Pale Horse posted:I really can't believe that anyone except the absolute fringe of PiS believe that Smolensk was anything other than a tragic accident. What possible reason would Tusk have to kill the President who was 20 points down in the polls for re-election. It boggles the mind. These people are clinically insane or despicable cynical opportunists of the worst order. I mean, last I remember, less than a third of Poles believe in the Assassination conspiracy theory so what's their play here politically speaking? Who are they trying to appeal to? Have you seen an interview with that reporter guy that was the first to get to the crashsite? Apparently as soon as Macierewicz heard about the plane crashing, he went straight into panic mode and was making GBS threads his pants that the ruskies are going to assassinate him next. This was before anything was known to the public or the people waiting for the polish delegation at the Katyń cemetery, his mind went straight from plane crash to russian assassination plot. Polish Ministry of National Defence is run by a dude with straight up paranoid delusions. Like, I'm not really cool with demonizing those idiots and painting them as the second coming of Hitler or whatever, but there are people on the highest government level with legit and obvious mental issues. This is the dude that's right now trying to float the idea of a paramilitary formation equipped with automatic weapons, able to act without the need to declare a state of emergency, to protect against  immigrants
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Apr 12, 2016 09:40
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grate deceiver posted:Have you seen an interview with that reporter guy that was the first to get to the crashsite? Apparently as soon as Macierewicz heard about the plane crashing, he went straight into panic mode and was making GBS threads his pants that the ruskies are going to assassinate him next. This was before anything was known to the public or the people waiting for the polish delegation at the Katyń cemetery, his mind went straight from plane crash to russian assassination plot. Poland: leading the world in idiot kings with insane ministers, without actually being a monarchy.
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Apr 12, 2016 10:14
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grate deceiver posted:Have you seen an interview with that reporter guy that was the first to get to the crashsite? Apparently as soon as Macierewicz heard about the plane crashing, he went straight into panic mode and was making GBS threads his pants that the ruskies are going to assassinate him next. This was before anything was known to the public or the people waiting for the polish delegation at the Katyń cemetery, his mind went straight from plane crash to russian assassination plot. This last part is genuinely terrifying though. Macierewicz is an idiot, but his basic line of thinking here (not one typical for liberal democracies) is that the army will never be loyal to him, since most of the high-ranking officers rightly consider him an incompetent buffoon. He thinks he can create a paramilitary that he'll be able to control, but he won't. And the kind of people who will be attracted to joining it are mostly nationalist bullies, especially since he wants to enshrine "Christian principles" into its rules. That complete loving idiot is about to give automatic weapons to football hooligans. We even already have one large paramilitary organization, Strzelec, that basically does the same thing: training people in use of arms so they can defend the country if need be. But its leader, despite being far from leftist, came on TV to say that he yearns for Poland's multicultural tolerance of centuries past, that they're a secular organization, and that national unity means that he wants Catholics, Muslims, Jews, Orthodox and atheists side by side. So even the current crop of weirdo gun nut preppers is too centrist for the government and they need their own. Sigh.
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Apr 12, 2016 11:33
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 ANNUAL SMOLENSK AUDIOPHILE DUMP The experts, armed with the newest in monster cable technology, wooden volume knobs and obsidian cable supports have once again outdone themselves and brought out the analogue warmth of these classic recordings. Now even more richness of tones can be heard. Where once there were mere unintelligible k.. and ch...s now we can clearly appreciate all the kurwas and chujs defining this monumental fuckup of trying to land a plane in zero visibility, or else... http://www.tvn24.pl/niepublikowane-nagrania-z-kokpitu-tu-154m,634833,s.html
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Apr 12, 2016 11:47
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birches don't break steel wings
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Apr 12, 2016 12:07
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birch please
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Apr 12, 2016 12:13
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Guildencrantz posted:....He thinks he can create a paramilitary that he'll be able to control, but he won't. And the kind of people who will be attracted to joining it are mostly nationalist bullies, especially since he wants to enshrine "Christian principles" into its rules. That complete loving idiot is about to give automatic weapons to football hooligans. Which one of these is that national guard organization created last year or so?
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Apr 12, 2016 12:17
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I can't wait for homegrown audio experts to declare this new recording quality to be the ultimate proof of assassination. Every shout is an explotion, every crack is a missle hit, every whisper is just the sound of a burning fuse.
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Apr 12, 2016 12:17
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Palpek posted:I can't wait for homegrown audio experts to declare this new recording quality to be the ultimate proof of assassination. Every shout is an explotion, every crack is a missle hit, every whisper is just the sound of a burning fuse. Me too, especially since it mostly made more of pilots talking poo poo about air control's repeated warnings audible.
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Apr 12, 2016 12:43
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Are the majority of people in Poland Smolensk truthers? How popular are those theories?
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Apr 12, 2016 12:44
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Paladinus posted:Are the majority of people in Poland Smolensk truthers? How popular are those theories? Well, uh...there's this guy... like a Minister of National Defence or something, idk...also some government-endorsed tv channel...overall not a big deal I guess The surveys I've seen put it at something like 30% of respondents, around 10% of which 'strongly believe' in the assassination conspiracy. edit: it was this one I think: http://cbos.pl/SPISKOM.POL/2012/K_085_12.PDF edit2: ok, I found a more recent one, numbers are pretty similar: http://www.cbos.pl/SPISKOM.POL/2015/K_049_15.PDF grate deceiver fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 13:11
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What I never got about the Smolensk theory is how is Russia supposed to benefit from killing the president of Poland? At least 9/11 truthers make some deluded sense about needing 9/11 to justify wars.
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Apr 12, 2016 13:22
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Uhh, they stopped the greatest president in history from singlehandedly making Poland into an economical and military global power and establishing the kingdom of heaven on earth OBVIOUSLY
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Apr 12, 2016 13:25
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The most common idea I heard is 'to destabilize the country' as Poland is one of the more important countries in the region so then Russia could achieve its own goals like attacking Ukraine or something. How Poland was in any way going to influence those plans or how does assassinating a president - who unlike in the US or France holds no real power except for a veto - would destabilize Poland is something that they're still working on though. Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_of_Europe
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Apr 12, 2016 13:31
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sparatuvs posted:What I never got about the Smolensk theory is how is Russia supposed to benefit from killing the president of Poland? At least 9/11 truthers make some deluded sense about needing 9/11 to justify wars. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma 1. Putin shot down the plane because Kaczynski "played him" in Georgia 2. Tusk shot down the plane to ensure the presidency for Komorowski 3. Macierewicz shot down the plane to ensure the ultimate PiS victory down the line My money is on numero tres
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Apr 12, 2016 13:35
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Pierogi posted:It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma Its clearly revenge for the sacking of Moscow in 1610.
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Apr 12, 2016 13:48
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jonnypeh posted:Which one of these is that national guard organization created last year or so? Neither, it never materialized. PO was going to create it (mostly to save money on the real army) but they didn't get around to it beyond some preliminary planning, now Macierewicz picked up the project and changed it to suit his goals.
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Apr 12, 2016 13:50
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Palpek posted:I can't wait for homegrown audio experts to declare this new recording quality to be the ultimate proof of assassination. Every shout is an explotion, every crack is a missle hit, every whisper is just the sound of a burning fuse. This seems like a joke, but Smolensk truthers already managed to turn an ordinary movie where some guy walks through the forest and finds some debris into the proof of assassination. They heard not only shooting, but also victims pleading for mercy, or someone shouting "Kill the fucker" in Russian. Some even saw people in the bushes stalking the operator. Edit: I just remembered my favorite bit of this conspiracy theory. There were plenty of ways various people suggested Russians could kill Kaczynski, but there was one where they filled the entire area around Smolensk with helium, creating a low-density bubble around the plane. There were also one where they kidnapped the real aircraft and crashed a replica with some random bodies taken from the morgue. Gantolandon fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 13:58
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A new BBC documentary I'm part of is out soon:quote:The Conspiracy Files: Who Shot Down MH17? Part of it will be Bellingcat's claims being put up against various counter claims from the likes of representatives of RT and Consortium News. It's an hour long, and there will be some new material in it.
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Apr 12, 2016 14:13
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grate deceiver posted:Well, uh...there's this guy... like a Minister of National Defence or something, idk...also some government-endorsed tv channel...overall not a big deal I guess Since this is all in Polish the relevant facts are that 31% believe it could have been a conspiracy to kill the prez with 8% believing it strongly while 51% don't believe it could have been a conspiracy with 27% rejecting the theory strongly. The rest are undecided.
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Apr 12, 2016 14:57
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"Could have been" is awfully vague. Maybe the conspiracy involved assigning incompetent pilots, after all!
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Apr 12, 2016 15:07
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Isn't the wing of the polish Air Force responsible for VIP transport notoriously incompetent. Like the president was already in one helicopter crash, that he survived, before the Smolensk crash.
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Apr 12, 2016 15:27
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sparatuvs posted:Isn't the wing of the polish Air Force responsible for VIP transport notoriously incompetent. Like the president was already in one helicopter crash, that he survived, before the Smolensk crash. That was Leszek Miller, prime minister at the time and the helicopter was at fault then, not the pilot who actually managed to save everyone on board thanks to skillz. But there was a military CASA airplane crash with 20 fatalities thanks to tremendous negligence of pilots not long before Smolensk. e: BTW, after the Miller crash no one said it was the ruskies trying to off our beloved PM??? Anne Frank Funk fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 15:32
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Maybe it is my American privilege shining through but 3 crashes in 2 decades sounds pretty bad for a commercial line, and unbelievably bad for a government agency whose job it is to be safer than a commercial alternative.
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Apr 12, 2016 15:40
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They were also flying completely outdated aircraft. The helicopter that crashed was a 30 year old Mi-8 and the Tupolev that crashed was also at least 30 years old. They were supposedly retrofitted and updated, but well, you can only do so much to a flying pile of poo poo like a Tupolev. Now they only lease 2 Embraer medium range jets from LOT Polish Airlines. The government doesn't have any of its own aircraft for VIP transport. I mean, I realize a 787 or a 767 are expensive but for christ's sakes, we're not Gambia, we should be able to afford one for the transport of the president or government delegations.
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Apr 12, 2016 15:40
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Noone wanted to be the one to greenlight the spending.
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Apr 12, 2016 15:44
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We are over budget after ordering a set of spare tires for Duda you dummies! [insert simcity advisor graphic here]
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Apr 12, 2016 15:51
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alex314 posted:Noone wanted to be the one to greenlight the spending. With a face blackened from his coal mine, and eyes bloodshot red from his alcoholism. "Why fly when you can walk, Östlander." 
Xerxes17 fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 16:06
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A Pale Horse posted:They were also flying completely outdated aircraft. The helicopter that crashed was a 30 year old Mi-8 and the Tupolev that crashed was also at least 30 years old. They were supposedly retrofitted and updated, but well, you can only do so much to a flying pile of poo poo like a Tupolev. Now they only lease 2 Embraer medium range jets from LOT Polish Airlines. The government doesn't have any of its own aircraft for VIP transport. I mean, I realize a 787 or a 767 are expensive but for christ's sakes, we're not Gambia, we should be able to afford one for the transport of the president or government delegations. You wish you were Gambia. A lot of African governments own big passenger aircraft. Spending priorities. How else are they going to move those oversized entourages? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_transports_of_heads_of_state_and_government#Gambia
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Apr 12, 2016 16:17
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sparatuvs posted:What I never got about the Smolensk theory is how is Russia supposed to benefit from killing the president of Poland? At least 9/11 truthers make some deluded sense about needing 9/11 to justify wars. Ironically, the conspiracy theory works far better if you assume the President was collateral damage, and the main targets were all the military officers aboard the plane. It's still nonsense, to be sure, but if you already take it as a given that Russia is always looking to either conquer or at least gently caress with Poland as much as possible, assassinating military officers seems like something Russia would be very interested in doing. Of course, if Poor Plucky Poland is the center of the universe, the Kaczyńskis are the center of the Poland galaxy.
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Apr 12, 2016 16:39
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