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muggins posted:Yeah that's definitely where I saw it. I don't know like how bad it is that I enjoy World War II gaming the East Front where they corduroy roads with bodies and poo poo but a colonialism game set in DARKEST AFRICA makes me wince It's pretty different. In WWII, both sides were belligerents, in Africa, it was colonial conquest for no other reason than "subjugating the savages." And it's completely unbalanced, unlike the Eastern Front where both sides were at least close in terms of war technology. E: Reading the article now, it actually doesn't sound so awful. It's more about adventures on the Congo than subjugating a people. 3 Action Economist fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 12:45
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So is it the technical levela that decide how morally acceptable the game is? Because when you play SAGA, you're always dealing with incaders who are there to plunder and subjugate folks. And then you get to the crusades...
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Apr 11, 2016 12:57
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It may be the racially-motivated part, although that would apply to the Eastern Front, too.
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Apr 11, 2016 13:03
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I don't know about you guys, but I view anyone whose first choice for a WW2 army is Waffen SS as pretty fuckin sketchy.
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Apr 11, 2016 13:11
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I don't have a clear set moral standpoint that I can objectively use to say what I would play or not. But I have a clear gut feeling that says "no, I will not go there thank you very much". And that's enough for me. If anything, I have gotten more hesitant as I grow older.
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Apr 11, 2016 13:16
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From the website/blog: http://blog.studio-tomahawk.com/2015/03/congo_31.htmlquote:Congo offers you the unique opportunity to take part to the exploration of this country, before the private companies and military forces arrive to plunder and wreak havoc. It’s a time when explorers, adventurers and scientists decided to risk their life and reputation to chart the uncharted, unveil mysteries and myths, and faced the natives and the terrible North African slavers. I mean there's still racism going on at that time, I'm sure the white explorers didn't look at the natives as equals, but the factions themselves are, at least. I still have no interest, but that's more because that background doesn't interest me in general.
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Apr 11, 2016 13:20
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I think the more of history you study, the more the moral implications begin to trouble you. When I had just started as an undergraduate, I was willing to delve into just about anything, but now I find that my emotional fortitude can't withstand some things without becoming intensely upset. Where before I was willing to give anything a go, these days I wouldn't even contemplate playing a wargame set in the colonial Congo, the Cape Frontier Wars or even the New Zealand wars because of the really worrying context.
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Apr 11, 2016 13:22
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For me, it's often conflicts that are recent that hits a bit too close for comfort. I know that the Punic Wars and the Roman conquest of Gallia etc. were horrible genocides, but I can paint up a Roman legion just fine. But I would not sit down, rub my hands, and play some ISIS on FAA action.
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Apr 11, 2016 13:27
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Besides, I don't think you can maximize grog/hr in this game. What's the proper shield emblem for a Congolese war party in 1872?
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Apr 11, 2016 13:29
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lilljonas posted:For me, it's often conflicts that are recent that hits a bit too close for comfort. I know that the Punic Wars and the Roman conquest of Gallia etc. were horrible genocides, but I can paint up a Roman legion just fine. But I would not sit down, rub my hands, and play some ISIS on FAA action. I think the fact that colonial conflicts in particular rub me the wrong way is because we're still very much dealing with that stuff today down here in Van Diemen's Land. I think every wargamer has to find that invisible line for themselves, however, and I wouldn't necessarily say that someone who enjoyed those games was automatically a bad person. (Except probably the aforementioned theoretical SS fetishist)
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Apr 11, 2016 13:32
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Colonial Air Force posted:Besides, I don't think you can maximize grog/hr in this game. What's the proper shield emblem for a Congolese war party in 1872? *monocle plops out* "By Jove, there's not even a proper OoB for this clash!"
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Apr 11, 2016 13:32
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The only moral qualms I ever have is when thinking about playing Soviets in FoW because of occupation of Lithuania. Luckily I'm too pleb to ever play have enought money for that. No problem with playing them from T-55 - onwards for some reason.
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Apr 11, 2016 13:37
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For me (and this applies to reenacting, too), I just really like killing Nazis. That overrides any moral issues I have with the commies.
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Apr 11, 2016 14:03
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The colonial stuff has always been interesting to me though thats probably because I received my masters in history studying the French colonial empire, mainly Algeria (max grog here). There are some decent games that either go over the combat or just the ills of colonialism pretty well. The best, which is not a wargame just fyi, is "Dog Eat Dog": http://liwanagpress.com/dog-eat-dog/ For an actual wargame that is pretty good check out "The Herero War." The guy who wrote it, who is an ethnic Herero, did a lot of primary source research and playtesting. The scenarios are pretty balanced and entertaining and use more or less the Sword and the Flame rules: http://hererowars.com/the-herero-war-book-is-now/ I've wanted to write a scenario book for ages covering the Kabyles vs the Ottomans and the French. They held out conquest for ages in the Djuradjura mountains in N. Algeria, and were able to fend off colonizers repeatedly until the French were finally able to wheel artillery up there in the late 1850s. The Taureg in southern Algeria would be interesting as well but for totally different reasons. nesbit37 fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 14:16
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So I'll bite, what does 'grog/HR' mean? heal rate? heart rate? hit rule? And for a bit of market research, I'm just curious what you guys think when you hear the word 'omega' in relation to wargaming. I think it can apply to modern and sci-fi settings just fine, but does it fit (or is it generic enough) for historical settings as well?
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Apr 11, 2016 14:51
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Grog per hour.
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Apr 11, 2016 14:52
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Endman posted:I don't know about you guys, but I view anyone whose first choice for a WW2 army is Waffen SS as pretty fuckin sketchy. Same. TBH whenever I do Historicals I have to remind myself that the couple of dudes at the shop who are really into the nazi aesthetic are the avoidable outliers and most of the people with those armies just like their rules the best or think they have cool tanks.
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Apr 11, 2016 15:07
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To be honest, I had some moral qualms about playing Waffen SS - but then I remembered that it's just a game. I'm playing miniature soldiers against other miniature soldiers. Same thing with this Congo thing: it sounds like an adventure pulp miniatures game and not a historical game. This is something that you'd raid Bob Murch' pulp miniatures website over. Morally I'm awfully flexible, but that might be due to my education (History & Philosophy) - I'd even want to say that there could be an educational benefit of playing games set in morally questionable times. Then again, as long as you're not a card carrying member of the nazi party or new aryan race, or whatever else there is on either the extreme left or extreme right scale of the political line, you'll probably be OK with playing Waffen SS or Belgium in the Congo.
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Apr 11, 2016 15:44
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I don't know if I ever wanted to play SS (I might have, at some point), but now I'm all for Shutzen and Panzer III. But then again I'm the idiot who will find the trash mobbbiest army to play, then be dissatisfied once it falls apart/dies out around him. The first FoW army I wanted to play was the Stalingrad worker militia. I still want a tiny BA force of regulars and one Tiger I
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Apr 11, 2016 16:19
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Brits often seem to think of Napoleon as the big bad, but compared to contemporary UK, and especially their army, it's like I'm playing the good guys. Neener neener. I have no excuse for my eastern front Germans though. They're not SS, but holy crap did Heer formations do poo poo things in Ukraine as well.
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Apr 11, 2016 17:13
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If you're even slightly concerned that playing Waffen SS might be weird or uncomfortable to someone else, you're almost certainly not the kind of person who shouldn't be playing them. Using them as an icebreaker to discuss the clean wehrmacht, well actually Stalin was worse than Hitler, or how Hitler actually did right by the German people? Get hosed and gently caress off.
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Apr 11, 2016 17:21
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lilljonas posted:Brits often seem to think of Napoleon as the big bad, but compared to contemporary UK, and especially their army, it's like I'm playing the good guys. Look, only Britain stood up to the expansionist French for the whole war. We were fighting for democracy and against the dreaded imperialism! Wait? I got that the wrong way round? Well, it's the bloody French! That automatically puts us in the right.
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Apr 11, 2016 18:22
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JcDent posted:
You could do a Last Levy list with all kinds of wacky odds and sods. Volkssturm, Hitler Jugend, etc. Warlord even sells Luftwaffe auxiliaries and a Kriegsmarine crew with extremely powerful beards and cool hats. 
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Apr 11, 2016 18:31
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Kriegsmarine vs Naval Infantry Brigade are the coolest things.
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Apr 11, 2016 19:38
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Polikarpov posted:You could do a Last Levy list with all kinds of wacky odds and sods. Volkssturm, Hitler Jugend, etc. Warlord even sells Luftwaffe auxiliaries and a Kriegsmarine crew with extremely powerful beards and cool hats. I'd like to play my army at the time when it wasn't losing decisively. Absolutely badass minis, tho! Warlord knows how to put out quality stuff. Except for their Chevy truck, the one that BF makes at 15mm is much cuter.
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Apr 11, 2016 20:14
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I'd almost feel vaguely bad about the Congo project I embarked upon a while back but TBH the only reason it happened is that Revell re-released the old Matchbox Paras for a friend to use as European mercenaries supporting the Katangan seccesion and us realising that the lovely underscale Revell re-release of the old Matchbox WWII British Infantry with a made-up bazooka-style AT weapon were totally equipped correctly for Irish peacekeepers in 1961.
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Apr 11, 2016 20:25
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  I finally did it. Finally broke down and bought Saga, a 4 Pt. Viking Army, and a 4 Pt. Irish Army. Now to wait for the leather Irish boat to sail across the Atlantic and deliver it.
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Apr 11, 2016 21:37
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Yooper posted:
Viking starter-upper buddy!  Dark Age Warriors (GB-GBP03) Quantity: 1 French Napoleonic Dragoons 1812-1815 (PERRY-FN130) Quantity: 1 French Napoleonic Line Infantry 1812-1815 (PERRY-FN100) Quantity: 1 Viking Hirdmen (GB-GBP01) Quantity: 1 Wait a minute, some of those are not Vikings at all!
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Apr 11, 2016 21:51
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SAGA is so much fun
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Apr 11, 2016 23:27
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Are we posting our starter army purchases? US Army HQ (Winter) US Army Forward Observer Team (Winter) 4x US Army Infantry Squad in Winter Clothing US Army Bazooka and Sniper Teams (Winter) US Army Flamethrower and Light Mortar Teams (Winter) US Army Medium Mortar (Winter) M8/M20 Greyhound Scout Car (Plastic Box) M24 Chafee, Light US Tank M4 Sherman, Medium US Tank Ran me $150 shipped. Gonna play all the Bolt Action and Chain of Command, all of it. I think I'm going to model them as the 9th Armored Division but IDK yet.
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Apr 12, 2016 02:52
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Swagger Dagger posted:Are we posting our starter army purchases? I'm pretty jealous; the new winter US Army models are pretty great.
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Apr 12, 2016 02:56
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muggins posted:SAGA is so much fun It really is.
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Apr 12, 2016 07:56
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What's more fun: Dark Age SAGA or Crescent & Cross? Also, didn't Bad Squiddo Games have soviet female figures? I want to have some ladies in my Soviet Bolt Action forces. Can't find them on her website anymore.
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Apr 12, 2016 11:50
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They're on preorder, it looks like a new line.
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Apr 12, 2016 12:00
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Dear Historicals thread, This past weekend, someone who I thought was my "friend" introduced me to Chain of Command. Now, for the first time in my life I'm idly browsing for WWII minis and contemplating giving Too Fat Lardies some of my hard-earned money. Is it already too late for me?
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Apr 12, 2016 15:45
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Ilor posted:Dear Historicals thread, yessssssssss Now please move next to my house so someone else plays within a light year of me 
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Apr 12, 2016 15:58
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Ilor posted:Dear Historicals thread, There's never been a better time to get into historicals IMO, there's a wealth of insanely good models out there. RIP your wallet and free time.
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Apr 12, 2016 16:01
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Well your wallet should be okay, actually, since historicals are usually cheaper. Until you realize you need to collect every era in every scale, and then....
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Apr 12, 2016 16:03
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There are a bunch of lardie players here, so don't be afraid to put on a pair of suspenders and post about your descent into buying resin kits of obscure French tanks.
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Apr 12, 2016 16:06
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I'm a filthy heretic who's jotting notes for a sci fi CoC houserule set 
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Apr 12, 2016 16:08
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