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Kinda looking forward to the whole thing being over so we can finally look at it as a full, complete thing. I think in the long run Homestuck's way more defined by its characters and their interactions than it is by the greater overarching plot, and that's why these updates have fallen kind of flat--they're playing to a weakness rather than a strength.
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Apr 12, 2016 16:17
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I kind of think that this part's being treated like something it's not, it's like the wordless celebration scene in return of the King, and honestly I like seeing all the kids excited and reuniting. I don't see why we need twenty pages of chat logs for "AAAAAA WE DID IT AAAAAA" to make this slower. Maybe I'm less than psyched for chat logs because some of the last ones were bad (sprite^2's talking about incest, vriska being a big fat bully, etc)
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Apr 12, 2016 16:23
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guys, i just got off the phone with hussie, and he agreed to give me one (1) frame of the Super Final Last Flash Animation
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Apr 12, 2016 16:33
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I think if Hussie had drawn out these final updates himself, shooting for them to be as gorgeous as the commissioned art, we'd have had to have the Ultimapause lasting until who knows when. I think that his having commissioned art is a recognition that, at this point, he had to focus on [S]Collide and whatever's coming up tomorrow to hit the 4/13 deadline. Other people can do gorgeous as well (better?); the animations are the part that are unique to him. The artist-drawn panels have had several bits that I regard fondly, and I'm pretty sure a hypothetical ARSENIC who had seen all possible art outcomes would miss them.
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Apr 12, 2016 16:35
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subpar anachronism posted:Crossposting from the weird fanart thread. It's... it's baffling. Where does one get an idea like this even?? Uhhhh well that's something. I've probably spent too much time reading about serial killers but that's definitely based off of the last photo of poor Regina Walters. 
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Apr 12, 2016 16:35
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Freak Futanari posted:guys, i just got off the phone with hussie, and he agreed to give me one (1) frame of the Super Final Last Flash Animation I do not want any Homestuck characters to be 'Topless' but destroying planets is par for the course already.
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Apr 12, 2016 16:41
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I thought of something that simultaneously resolves the two major gripes people had with the Battle of the Becs, those gripes being: 1) What was the point of having Jade in that battle if she didn't end up doing anything?, and 2) Why didn't PM "finish the job" (by killing Jack) after the battle ended? I posit that the answer to both of these questions is that Jade interfering with their battle is the reason why PM didn't kill Jack outright. In other words, although PM "overcame" her Bec-loyalty to Jade by punching her in the snout (to establish superiority), Jade's interference still had a significant enough emotional effect on PM that PM settled for just maiming Jack rather than killing him. When viewed in this light, the thematic importance of the battle - as well as the characters' actions - becomes much clearer.
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Apr 12, 2016 16:43
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Acne Rain posted:I kind of think that this part's being treated like something it's not, it's like the wordless celebration scene in return of the King, and honestly I like seeing all the kids excited and reuniting. I don't see why we need twenty pages of chat logs for "AAAAAA WE DID IT AAAAAA" to make this slower. The thing is, you're totally right about this. If it weren't for the fact that we were coming back after like a year of no updates, then I think this would actually be fairly well received. But it's just a horribly awkward place to step into with as little lead-in as we got.
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Apr 12, 2016 16:57
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Freak Futanari posted:we all know how homestuck will end how could anyone argue that fans finishing the series is a bad thing in the face of this
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Apr 12, 2016 17:30
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To celebrate the final day, I offer this tribute:
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Apr 12, 2016 17:34
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Plom Bar posted:To celebrate the final day, I offer this tribute: holy poo poo
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Apr 12, 2016 17:39
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Plom Bar posted:To celebrate the final day, I offer this tribute: outstanding
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Apr 12, 2016 17:39
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Plom Bar posted:To celebrate the final day, I offer this tribute: mods?
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Apr 12, 2016 17:40
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Toxxupation posted:On a more serious note, I get where people are coming from the anger/criticisms with the fact that direct leadup to the climax is wordless. I don't agree, but mostly because what this means is the climax and whatever attendant resolution afterwards have to be loving perfect. The comic has steadfastly refused to address any one of its legions of dangling plot threads before the climax, considering the act 6 finale was all combat focused, and, in general, poor. The lead-out from the act 6 finale and the lead-in to act 7 has been wordless, when it could've been used as a moment to support, justify, or clarify its own weaker or underdeveloped elements. Instead, it's all vague setup for The Final UpdateTM, putting even more stress on an overburdened finale. See Toxx, I like it when you post like this. I wish you'd do it more. Can we do something like a checklist of these dangling plot threads and thematic aims you have mentioned before? I'd like to see a checklist of things you feel "need" to be adressed if Homestuck to be considered "good", in your opinion. Izzhov mentioned two, and there is still the eternal question "How exactly do we take on Lord English", but I think the rest of the plot is present and accounted for, but then I might be mistaken.
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Apr 12, 2016 17:41
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A tumblr user pointed out that "Alternia" would be the perfect track to end on. I can't argue with that.
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Apr 12, 2016 17:43
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paradoxGentleman posted:See Toxx, I like it when you post like this. I wish you'd do it more. I've done it all the time for literally years.
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Apr 12, 2016 17:44
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Plom Bar posted:To celebrate the final day, I offer this tribute: I'm at a loss for words.
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Apr 12, 2016 17:54
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Who What Now posted:I'm at a loss for words. 
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Apr 12, 2016 17:59
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Plom Bar posted:To celebrate the final day, I offer this tribute: I don't get it. e: Arsenic Lupin posted:A tumblr user pointed out that "Alternia" would be the perfect track to end on. I can't argue with that. I too have thought this for a long-rear end time, it's a perfect end theme. Or alternatively, Lotus Bloom from volume 8 is a fantastic song that has some 'ending' vibes to it as well. Also "Farewell" from Land of Fans and Music 1, although that one's obviously not gonna happen. CidGregor fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 18:01
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Plom Bar posted:To celebrate the final day, I offer this tribute: I hate this. I love this. I hate you Arsenic Lupin posted:A tumblr user pointed out that "Alternia" would be the perfect track to end on. I can't argue with that. I've been thinking this for years
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Apr 12, 2016 18:08
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CidGregor posted:I don't get it. im gonna make you stand at attention while i rip all the goon rank insignias and medals off your uniform
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Apr 12, 2016 18:09
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Plom Bar posted:To celebrate the final day, I offer this tribute: That's not fair you're going to make me choke on my own laughter I can't die yet
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Apr 12, 2016 18:15
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CidGregor posted:I don't get it. I am legit surprised that there isn't an SAclopedia entry for this one. Oh well. I guess sometimes you just have to most past these things and heal.
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Apr 12, 2016 18:15
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CidGregor posted:I don't get it. loss.jpg
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Apr 12, 2016 18:18
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Plom Bar posted:To celebrate the final day, I offer this tribute: Now I'm upset that I didn't think to make that joke....
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Apr 12, 2016 18:22
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Anyways to answer your question, it only needs to address one thing for me to find it personally satisfying, and that's doing right by its characters, most specifically its main four and Karkat. Here's what the loosely defined "main cast" is:
That's thirteen "main" protagonists alone. I have sincere doubts that all, or even most, of the thirteen will receive satisfactory conclusions. In addition, I would argue that there have been characters who are or have been tainted irrevocably (as, due to a confluence of being badly written, under-written, or both there's no realistic possibility of worthwhile closure). Underwritten Protagonists:
Badly Written Protagonists:
I expect all-to-most of these characters to receive unsatisfying or downright nonexistent conclusions to their arcs. Jade's the by-far most damning one of the lot (the alpha kids could burn for all I care, even Roxy's arc is more-or-less done considering she solved her alcoholism and repaired her relationship with Rose), and the only one of the five that I will be honestly broken up over if she doesn't go through some sort of catharsis to conclude her personal story. So that's five of thirteen eliminated right off the bat. I expect (not hope, flatly expect) the other three main characters and Karkat to receive worthwhile conclusions. If that happens, I won't call Homestuck good but I will consider it satisfying. Of the remaining four "protagonists" (Kanaya, Vriska, Terezi, Roxy), I would like Kanaya to conclude her arc satisfyingly, considering I'm a Virgo and she's my favorite non-Karkat troll. I don't expect her to (or expect it to be tied in directly with the quality or lack thereof of Rose's conclusion, which in and of itself is fine). Vriska I'm not concerned about, but also don't much care. I hated Vriska for a very long time but I've recognized that she's the character that Hussie arguably understands the best and writes the most well. Terezi will probably also fall by the wayside, which is probably okay since her big moment of actualization was enabling and planning every moment of the retcon. Roxy, as aforementioned, doesn't really need it - her story is more or less done. The plot, tonal, or thematic issues I can raise and list, but on the other hand I expect all of them to end poorly (especially the middle one, since Homestuck's tone is an unclarified mess that hides behind "irony" almost all the time, and which leaks out and infects the other two issues. Especially theme, since it's very easy to argue that whatever Homestuck's "actual themes" are are actually the opposite because it's a subversion/inversion/deconstruction of the same. I find rigorous themic analysis of Homestuck to be pointless because of the fact that its reliance on cheapening its more effective moments behind the prosaic wall of irony means that there's no greater insights to be gained. You mine as well just psychoanalyze Andrew Hussie himself for all the good themic analysis will do. No, that's best reserved for people like Oxxidation who care most intently about narrative and its attendant structures remaining sound. I can recognize and list the faults with Homestuck's construction, but that's ultimately irrelevant besides as a mental exercise. All I care about is if the characters I've spent the better part of a decade investing in actualize. Everything else I expect to fail on some level.
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Apr 12, 2016 18:23
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Plom Bar posted:I am legit surprised that there isn't an SAclopedia entry for this one.
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Apr 12, 2016 18:27
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paranoid randroid posted:im gonna make you stand at attention while i rip all the goon rank insignias and medals off your uniform Plom Bar posted:I am legit surprised that there isn't an SAclopedia entry for this one. Ok I am aware of loss.jpg but I still didn't really get it until the bit about minimalist interpretations. And even then it's a bit of a stretch. But that might just be my brain viscerally objecting to any sort of cross contamination between Homestuck and the garbage heap that is CAD.
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Apr 12, 2016 18:38
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CidGregor posted:Ok I am aware of loss.jpg but I still didn't really get it until the bit about minimalist interpretations. And even then it's a bit of a stretch. The minimalist/abstract renditions are the best ones. Kind of like an even more elaborate and subsequently aggravating rickrolling.
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Apr 12, 2016 18:42
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theres something delightful and pure about loss. six lines conveying an entire lexicon of meaning.
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Apr 12, 2016 18:49
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Plom Bar posted:The minimalist/abstract renditions are the best ones. Kind of like an even more elaborate and subsequently aggravating rickrolling. They really kind of are. It's always fantastic to have that moment of realization, or to see other people's reactions to that moment of realization. At this point my brain has been trained to immediately look for loss when I see the 4 panel layout. It like some sort of Pavlovian poo poo.
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Apr 12, 2016 18:58
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upd8! Gulp.
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Apr 12, 2016 18:59
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Toxxupation posted:A Long And Also Good Post I think Terezi's in an awkward spot here, because her problem as written (namely, what looks a lot like a case of depression) just isn't something that can be wrapped up in the space available. She did have a great moment of self-actualization with planning the retcon, and with her role in defeating the Jacks with Dave and Dirk, but with the way she's just kind of wandering off on her own at this moment of triumph kind of shows that she hasn't really internalized her own self-worth yet, and still has a long way to go. It'd eat up a lot of time even if she was the only main character; in an ensemble cast I see approximately 0 chance of it being fully addressed. To go full fanfic-mode here, I think the best way to sum up "things are going to get better for Terezi" with the space available at this point would be some good interaction with another character just kind of coming over and encouraging her, except that the people I could buy doing this (Karkat, Kanaya, most of the beta kids) are already very tied up with other people). Actually, just have Aradia fly over, I could accept that even though Aradia is largely not an actual character.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:00
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Edit:^^^^Yeah I have to agree that Terezi feels quite a bit like a loose end. If she had died as part of some heroic effort or moment of self-actualization (Vriska's kind of tainted the idea of a heroic sacrifice but let's just talk in narrative terms here) that might've closed out her character more clearly, but otherwise she's just a tiny bit isolated from the rest of the survivors and doesn't have anything she can do with the realizations Remember Me gave her. Normally using a relationship as a writing crutch for "this character will live happily ever after" can be weak, but I have to say that if this were the original, pre-retcon timeline then her and Karkat getting back together would've been an easy way to signal they've each overcame their personal issues that contributed to splitting them up in the first place. In this timeline I guess it could be her friendship with Vriska, although a lot's still up in the air about Vriska's character and ending. Arsenic Lupin posted:upd8! Gulp. UPDATE indeed! Just a few panels to establish PM and WV are indeed going to throw those rings in, and PM looks determined as gently caress. Although if the next update is a link to a flash or special html page it'll be funny the last "regular" panel update is an angry white sphere with two little angry eyes! And they're holding hands, awwww. Dolash fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 19:04
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Welp. I've got a night shift tonight so I will see you folks tomorrow also edit to say i'm probably more ok than i should be with the possibility that "That's the best loving question anybody ever asked." is the last line of dialogue in this comic forever.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:04
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Between PM and John, this art is really not doing facial closeups any favors.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:05
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You are coming down with me Hand in unlovable hand And I hope you die I hope we both die I like that, at the end, we're being reminded how alien the carapacian pawns really are. With all PM's been through, what she has to show for it are a few shallow scratches on her round ball head. I don't think Calliope is a major character; she and Caliborn are there to illustrate (literally, in Callie's case) the Sburb hero's journey, and what happens when it goes wrong. I agree that Jade got criminally little development.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:06
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nothing like a detailed close-up to remind you that PM is a nonhuman insectile chess person
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Apr 12, 2016 19:11
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i tried to go back and catch up on the 1000 pages of homestuck i hadn't read, but i got bored after like 70 pages, but let it be known that i tried
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Apr 12, 2016 19:12
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Yeah, Calliope is a side character, she says as much herself (when she talks about her role being not that of a hero but a civilian). She's about as relevant as someone like Aradia, or Doc Scratch: characters who are important for parts of the comic and then fade into the background. Her part just happened to be closer to the end. Of course, I guess that could be a misdirection and this Calliope will be vital to the climax somehow...there's still the mystery of Serenity, who it's been hinted is some kind of manifestation of her Muse powers. I think the real clinchers will be whether or not we get a solid wrap on Jake, Jane and Jade, and to a lesser extent Kanaya. These are all relatively major characters who've been a little shortchanged by the narrative and who seem like they're one step (or more!) away from the end of their arcs. Kanaya's the easiest to wrap up for sure, but giving Jake and Jane a satisfying ending seems like a tall order.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:14
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