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zoux posted:Episode ending doesn't have a lot of weight on a Netflix show. If they'd made you wait a week I could see why people thought it was flat but it's kind of absurd to hold all-at-once shows to this network TV formula. Length of time between viewings doesn't have anything to do with it, they're still using episode-to-episode structure and, like chapters in a book, what you choose to break a segment on and with what sense of gravitas affects one's expectations of resolution in subsequent episodes. If they didn't mean for the hole to seem like a big deal then they shouldn't have spent most of an episode building up to it and then ended it with such dramatic import.
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Apr 11, 2016 01:19
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zoux posted:Episode ending doesn't have a lot of weight on a Netflix show. If they'd made you wait a week I could see why people thought it was flat but it's kind of absurd to hold all-at-once shows to this network TV formula. Episode endings are totally meaningless now that we don't have to wait for the beginning of the next one? ....what?
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Apr 11, 2016 01:21
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HIJK posted:Episode endings are totally meaningless now that we don't have to wait for the beginning of the next one? See you're saying it like it's some dogmatic thing when it's not. Or maybe you think they should also construct rising and falling action around theoretical commercial breaks.
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Apr 11, 2016 01:31
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When it's convenient for the argument a person is making, Netflix shows don't take enough advantage of their episodic structure and just expect you to watch them all in sequence. When it's not convenient to the argument, they don't do that and totally work like normal TV episodes.
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Apr 11, 2016 01:46
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Gyges posted:The location was brought up way more in Season 1 and nobody complained then. Pretty sure there was a lingering shot of their planned block blue prints too. Guess they needed Matt and someone else to comment on the location for it to be a real issue. At the end of Season 1 it wasn't even clear that they ever got the property, and people did complain then. They stopped complaining when it turned out that property was important...except they then didn't follow up on it at all.
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Apr 11, 2016 01:48
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I just went and watched it, at the end of the episode the flashlight is sitll in midair and immediately at the beginning of the next episode it hits. It's literally the writers poking fun at the idea of episode cliffhangers, there's not even a scene elsewhere to delay gratification.
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Apr 11, 2016 01:52
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zoux posted:See you're saying it like it's some dogmatic thing when it's not. Or maybe you think they should also construct rising and falling action around theoretical commercial breaks. You said: zoux posted:Episode ending doesn't have a lot of weight on a Netflix show. That's pretty dogmatic. That's a blanket statement. I'm sorry to have to break this to you. Asking a question and then answering it is a satisfying mode of storytelling. In season 1, Nelson v. Murdock asks the question "what is going to happen to the firm" when Foggy walks out on Matt and then throws the sign in the trash. This question is resolved in the finale when Foggy and Matt commit to each other and then put the sign up. This is a very clear example of how to create an arc. In season 1 in general, the overall storytelling is pretty clear. Fisk is using organized crime as a way to control Hell's Kitchen. The audience understood what was and was not significant because the storytelling communicated this clear goal. Everything that the crime lords did was to serve this larger goal. Getting the block of buildings was to pacify the yakuza so that they would help Fisk achieve his goals. In season 2 the Hand is draining the blood out of children...to create zombies...to...get Elektra? In order to control her because she's the Black Sky? I think? And the hole figures into this somehow but I don't know how? Okay....I think. But that's the problem. Season 2 is so goddamn meandering that it's impossible to know what is significant and what isn't. There's no question to ask, there's no arc. That's my beef with Season 2. The Hand storyline doesn't have a clear cut goal until they inform us that they're trying to recruit Elektra as their leader. And then you realize that everything up until that point was totally meaningless because the real story was Elektra getting recruited and everything up until that point was just set dressing and oh gently caress it HIJK fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 01:54
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zoux posted:I just went and watched it, at the end of the episode the flashlight is sitll in midair and immediately at the beginning of the next episode it hits. It's literally the writers poking fun at the idea of episode cliffhangers, there's not even a scene elsewhere to delay gratification. Oh so it's an ironic cliffhanger now, okay.
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Apr 11, 2016 03:08
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McSpanky posted:Oh so it's an ironic cliffhanger now, okay. That's...actually not a bad way of putting it. I mean, I don't see how you think that was playing it straight.
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Apr 11, 2016 03:19
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It must be absolutely miserable to watch TV and need every plot point or mystery wrapped up episodically or within a single season. Then again Dexter had stupid self contained seasons and it went on for loving ever so what do I know people must love that poo poo
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Apr 11, 2016 04:04
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Na'at posted:It must be absolutely miserable to watch TV and need every plot point or mystery wrapped up episodically or within a single season. I don't need everything to be wrapped up and solved every episode like an episode of Scooby Doo, I just want to know what the gently caress the motivations are. Stick shows up to stop a Black Sky from being delivered, a kid is killed for being a Black Sky, the Hand are worshipping Elektra as their new deity for being a Black Sky- why is it that wanting someone to take a moment and say in plain terms what 'Black Sky' means so wrong? Is it just a title for the new leader of the Hand? Is the Black Sky going to lead them to world domination? Will discovering the Black Sky be the key to immortality? If I know what exactly it is that they're doing then I can stop being irritated that I don't feel I know what's happening anymore. Anyway, Matt's ridiculous flip kicks were dumb and took at lot of impact out of the ninja fights.
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Apr 11, 2016 06:38
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My policy is that if something mysterious is introduced but not explained within the same season, I'll operate under the assumption that the writers have no idea what the explanation is and will pull one from their arse when the time is right. And there's nothing wrong with that. Just don't expect anything.
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Apr 11, 2016 07:13
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I think the fact that the hole was itself a holdover (or a hole-dover asdfghjkl; haha) from season 1 could also come across annoying to people. The showrunners might even think they're being clever or enticing by dragging out a mystery multiple seasons, but there's really not all that many instances of that working out very well. For myself though, I didn't really mind the hole 'cuz I thought everything going on above the hole was still really good.
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Apr 11, 2016 07:59
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I feel like the main problem is that what was revealed about what the Hand is up to this season turned out to be really boring, so people are grasping at straws to find something, anything, more interesting about them, because ninjas are cool. Like that they're just seeking the power of immortality is something that a billion villains have done before, and seemingly they've already got it just... they want a better version? Like I kept wondering what was gonna be in that big jar, and then seemingly it's just how they bring people back to life. But the biggest problem is that everything about the Black Sky is just too drat vague. Elektra doesn't seem exceptionally more skilled than Matt or Stick. She doesn't have any supernatural powers. When it was that kid in season one, there was an air of mystery, because Stick was so scared that he killed him before he even got to do anything. We saw Elektra fight plenty of times. She's pretty good at it, but not to the extent that a clan of ninjas should go digging a 40 story hole in the ground to bring her back to life. They revealed too much for it to continue being mysterious not enough for it to be compelling. If there was any stakes set up for what happens if they get the Black Sky or are able to get the drugged kids back or whatever, it would be fine. But there's nothing. It's just The War this and The War that with no hint as to what either side is actually trying to accomplish.
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Apr 11, 2016 08:16
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Begemot posted:
Yeah that's fair
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Apr 11, 2016 13:27
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You're looking at it all wrong, just like Matt did. The hole wasn't important, it was all about the dirt. Precious dirt.
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Apr 11, 2016 14:00
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I hope they open up that twice dead ninja and he's just full of dirt.
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Apr 11, 2016 15:10
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DId everyone miss the part where they found a boxcar full of dirt?
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Apr 11, 2016 15:12
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Yeah that's what was being trafficked to the ninja factory upstate.
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Apr 11, 2016 15:30
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You realize that not being told what the hell is going on or what the real stakes are is exactly what Stick has done to both of them and therefore now we are right there with them and I's probably supposed to make us mad at Stick but nah he's cool.
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Apr 11, 2016 18:18
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Light Gun Man posted:You realize that not being told what the hell is going on or what the real stakes are is exactly what Stick has done to both of them and therefore now we are right there with them and I's probably supposed to make us mad at Stick but nah he's cool. Oh so Stick's the one to blame for Matt's inability to clue in his  friends about the dangerous poo poo that's going on in his life. This basically applied before too but gently caress Stick.
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Apr 11, 2016 18:25
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Light Gun Man posted:You realize that not being told what the hell is going on or what the real stakes are is exactly what Stick has done to both of them and therefore now we are right there with them and I's probably supposed to make us mad at Stick but nah he's cool. Speaking from my perspective it just made me not care about Stick since he was being annoying rather than contributing anything.
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Apr 11, 2016 18:26
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RareAcumen posted:Oh so Stick's the one to blame for Matt's inability to clue in his Nah that's just Matt's fetish for ruining his own relationships in action.
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Apr 11, 2016 18:30
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HIJK posted:Speaking from my perspective it just made me not care about Stick since he was being annoying rather than contributing anything. Definitely. You could just as easily have all his lines been "you don't know anything kid" and the series would be exactly the same.
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Apr 11, 2016 20:48
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Yeah, but I think it works better that way - that Stick is an unreliable narrator/source of information. Hell, pretty much everyone Daredevil might partner with is either unstable or untrustworthy. That's probably for a reason. Notice how Stick relates stories, but when he does, you don't see a flashback scene presented to Daredevil - because DD can't trust it. So he has to rely on Stick's words. We, the viewer, are presented with flashbacks. Big difference.
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Apr 11, 2016 20:52
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Light Gun Man posted:You realize that not being told what the hell is going on or what the real stakes are is exactly what Stick has done to both of them and therefore now we are right there with them and I's probably supposed to make us mad at Stick but nah he's cool. Yes but if you're living it, you're like 'what's going on this is so frustrating I'd better keep going and work hard to solve this mystery'. If you're watching it, you're just 'what's going on... oh gently caress it who cares, bring back the interesting good villains'.
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Apr 11, 2016 21:39
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Netflix is doing a Paris event where Charlie Cox revealed that Defenders shooting will start at the end of the year. Also he said he doesn't know if there's going to be a DD season 3 (sure bud)
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Apr 11, 2016 22:47
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zoux posted:
DD will die at the end of defenders in the Jesus Christ pose.
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Apr 11, 2016 22:53
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site posted:DD will die at the end of defenders in the Jesus Christ pose. He wishes.
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Apr 11, 2016 23:34
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site posted:DD will die at the end of defenders in the Jesus Christ pose. I wish I could find that one page with a priest walking in on Genis'Vell (Captain Marvel) during his insane phase where Genis is up on a cross imitating Jesus and when the priest looks startled and upset Genis just looks at him and goes "What...too cross?". I tried several GIS's for it, Comixology just in case (they have none of his comics apparently) and loads of random Google searches. I failed 
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Apr 12, 2016 01:48
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Man, ya'll are crazy. I loved the Hand/Ninja stuff. Although I will agree that the final episode ended kinda flatly (and Frank should have mowed down 8 bazillion ninjas with that mini-gun)
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Apr 12, 2016 03:29
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BlackJosh posted:(and Frank should have mowed down 8 bazillion ninjas with that mini-gun) I think we can all agree about this part, yes. Maybe that's how the next season will open!
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Apr 12, 2016 05:17
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site posted:DD will die at the end of defenders in the Jesus Christ pose.
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Apr 12, 2016 13:38
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site posted:DD will die at the end of defenders in the Jesus Christ pose. Would it pain you more if he were to walk on water than wear a crown of thorns?
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Apr 12, 2016 14:12
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im upset that they put Frank on a rooftop with a vantage point over the ninja army and then DIDNT use the minigun I guess that would have one upped Daredevil in his own show though
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Apr 12, 2016 20:30
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Zzulu posted:im upset that they put Frank on a rooftop with a vantage point over the ninja army and then If the Punisher wanted to wipe out everyone on the roof, then the minigun would be a great choice. To take out a few hostiles that are a safe distance from DD, a sniper rifle was a better chocie.
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Apr 12, 2016 20:46
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Red posted:If the Punisher wanted to wipe out everyone on the roof, then the minigun would be a great choice. To take out a few hostiles that are a safe distance from DD, a sniper rifle was a better chocie. Hey man, if the Terminator is able to fire a minigun from the fifth floor at a fleet of police cars and not hit a single police officer, I'm sure Punisher could also manage to do something similar. Also keep in mind, the latter walked into a hospital with a SHOTGUN, fired it a whole bunch of times and didn't hit any civilians.
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Apr 12, 2016 21:12
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enraged_camel posted:Hey man, if the Terminator is able to fire a minigun from the fifth floor at a fleet of police cars and not hit a single police officer, I'm sure Punisher could also manage to do something similar. Yeah and he also failed miserably to hit the guy he was deliberately targeting with that SHOTGUN.
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Apr 12, 2016 21:18
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I was as pissed as everyone else at how out of character the hospital shootout was, but if he really wanted to just scare Grotto and never had any intention of hitting him, (like he tells Karen later), then the shotgun is an okay choice, at least in my mind canon he's using birdshot. 
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Apr 12, 2016 21:36
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Rubber buckshot. Honest.
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Apr 12, 2016 22:47
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