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What do the rules say about intentionally throwing a game? For example, before the introduction of ID, if I'm 5-0 up before the last round, and guaranteed top 8 even with a loss, why shouldn't I just fly my ships off the map because my ankles and back are loving killing me, I'm starving and need a sit down and up to three more games still to play, are you kidding me? I don't really see that being a lovely thing to do. Are people ok with IDs being like a reward for people who mathematically are guaranteed a place thanks to great results, or must these people play out the drat round (that is pretty meaningless).
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Apr 12, 2016 16:07
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hoiyes posted:What do the rules say about intentionally throwing a game? For example, before the introduction of ID, if I'm 5-0 up before the last round, and guaranteed top 8 even with a loss, why shouldn't I just fly my ships off the map because my ankles and back are loving killing me, I'm starving and need a sit down and up to three more games still to play, are you kidding me? The issue is that the Roanoke 8 formed a bloc and used ID to keep anyone below the top 8 making a cut into the final brackets in the last round.
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Apr 12, 2016 16:32
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Finster Dexter posted:The issue is that the Roanoke 8 formed a bloc and used ID to keep anyone below the top 8 making a cut into the final brackets in the last round. Reportedly this isn't actually the case. At least one was persuaded to do it as a protest and regretted it, and several others reported the TO basically coming up to them and asking if they wanted to take the ID as if it was a given. For the top two I could see it making sense and being perfectly justified - they were both 5-0, and the only ones with that win record, so there was no question of anyone getting better than them, and it meant that they could skip a match at the end of a long day and not give each other hints as to their list/playstle for the final. But there's something up with the tournament structure when the next six can also make that same calculation. But blame the tournament structure, not the players.
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Apr 12, 2016 16:37
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Edit: to Finster Dexter. They didn't though. They acted independently and rationally. Any individual table that took a draw was guaranteed a place regardless of the other tables. hoiyes fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 16:37
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Just had some fun times and hilarious luck with a triple X build: Wedge with adaptability+, guidance chips and proton torpedoes Luke with veteran instincts, guidance chips and proton torpedoes Wes with veteran instincts, guidance chips and proton torpedoes Awesome alpha strike all at PS 10 Was able to one shot the Inquisitors with a torp, and blew up a bomber with a torp and some fire. On the first run of firing. The rest of his list folded nicely after that.
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Apr 12, 2016 16:42
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I think this exposes problems with the swiss format, if nothing else.
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Apr 12, 2016 16:44
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hoiyes posted:Edit: to Finster Dexter. 1-8 were only playing each other, right? Then, yeah, I suppose you are correct.
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Apr 12, 2016 16:45
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Finster Dexter posted:I think this exposes problems with the swiss format, if nothing else. This is the kind of thing that can happen with too many swiss rounds. The tournament was on the border of 5 and 6 rounds and did six swiss. You don't get huge ID 'cartels' if this goes five rounds.
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Apr 12, 2016 16:53
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Finster Dexter posted:1-8 were only playing each other, right? Then, yeah, I suppose you are correct. The bloc result, as it were, was only possible because there was exactly 8 people separated cleanly from the pack on points, before a cut to 8. If there had been just one more person in 9th with a 4-1 record, then none of the 4-1s would've taken the ID.
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Apr 12, 2016 16:54
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Finster Dexter posted:1-8 were only playing each other, right? Then, yeah, I suppose you are correct. The players in positions 1 and 2 were 5 points ahead of the players in positions 6-8, who themselves were 5 points ahead of 9 onwards. Players 1 and 2 look at this and say 'nobody can ever push us out of the top 8, and our match makes little difference to the overall tournament as it's unlikely that our MoVs will matter regardless of which of us wins, as nobody outside the top 8 can ever get to our level of points even if one of us loses' so they take the ID and go get a burger before the cut. Each matchup of players 3-4, 5-6, 7-8 looks independently at the players below and says 'we can both guarantee staying in the top 8 by taking an ID, that puts us on 26 points, and the maximum anyone below can gain is up to 25. So they each take the ID. It's basically the perfect storm of this tourney structure screwing up - if it had been a smaller cut, or any of the 6-8 players had lost or even mod. won a single match more, then a lot fewer would have been able to make that choice. I don't blame them for doing it; the chance of a national bye is a big deal in the competitive game. I blame the tournament structure for making it the best choice to go get a burger rather than play. But at the same time, I don't know how you fix it except possibly by making IDs not score at all, or even by making the person offering have to give their opponent a bye if they don't agree...
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Apr 12, 2016 16:55
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So I'm considering going to a local tournament tonight, and since my last attempt failed hideously I figured I'd go with something different:quote:Wedge Antilles [R2 Astromech, Juke, Integrated Astromech] (32) How bad does this list look? My idea was that the HWK and Garven could feed evades/focus tokens to Wedge to increase both his survivablity and his lethality, with the Headhunter filling out the rest of the available points. But, I don't fly that often, so this list could also be hideously awful  What do you guys think?
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Apr 12, 2016 16:59
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Your hawk doesn't have a turret? Juke is wasted on Wedge vs AG 0 & 1 ships and when the HWK dies it's useless. You probably don't want to decoy Wedge to shoot later in the round. It's very janky and likely to fall apart very quickly. Funny when it all comes together though.
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Apr 12, 2016 17:08
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Acebuckeye13 posted:So I'm considering going to a local tournament tonight, and since my last attempt failed hideously I figured I'd go with something different: I always think Juke on something that can't natively take an action to pick up an evade on its own is hella risky. It's easy to block or destroy the token source, and then you've wasted 2 points and an EPT slot that's not doing anything.
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Apr 12, 2016 17:09
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hoiyes posted:Your hawk doesn't have a turret? Juke is wasted on Wedge vs AG 0 & 1 ships and when the HWK dies it's useless. You probably don't want to decoy Wedge to shoot later in the round. It's very janky and likely to fall apart very quickly. Funny when it all comes together though. thespaceinvader posted:I always think Juke on something that can't natively take an action to pick up an evade on its own is hella risky. It's easy to block or destroy the token source, and then you've wasted 2 points and an EPT slot that's not doing anything. Yeah, those are good points. I think my biggest problem with writing lists is that I always want to try and come up with some nifty gimmick, without ever taking the time to think about how effective it actually is or how quickly it will fall apart.
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Apr 12, 2016 17:15
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Anybody want to get in some TTS games later? I don't feel like making the half hour drive to my FLGS today, but still want to fly some wangs.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:31
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Finster Dexter posted:the Roanoke 8 Sounds like a Quentin Tarantino flick.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:38
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Strobe posted:Anybody want to get in some TTS games later? I don't feel like making the half hour drive to my FLGS today, but still want to fly some wangs. I could be down.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:39
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I still need to get all the TTS stuff installed and set up, I'm extremely lazy.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:43
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I've been playing TTS with those recommended add-ons, but we just couldn't get the auto movement to reliably work, so we lowered the max height to zero and just started playing with movement sticks using the provided dials, and holy crap, my distance estimation is garbage in this thing. Fun tho.
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Apr 12, 2016 20:34
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I've been watching some TTS tutorials and humming and hawing about getting it. Seems like the longer I wait the more refined and updated the Wang mods become.
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Apr 12, 2016 20:39
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AndyElusive posted:I've been watching some TTS tutorials and humming and hawing about getting it. Seems like the longer I wait the more refined and updated the Wang mods become. The xwing vassal mod is really good.
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Apr 12, 2016 20:41
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nilstryfe posted:I've been playing TTS with those recommended add-ons, but we just couldn't get the auto movement to reliably work, so we lowered the max height to zero and just started playing with movement sticks using the provided dials, and holy crap, my distance estimation is garbage in this thing. Fun tho. If you type the maneuver into the description, no other characters (so "k4" for a 4 speed K, "bl2" for a two bank left, etc) it should execute even if the automated stuff is being finicky.
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Apr 12, 2016 20:53
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I'm up for some TTS if people are playing just now. I tried to join the group but maybe someone needs to approve it?
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Apr 12, 2016 21:07
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Aramoro posted:I'm up for some TTS if people are playing just now. I tried to join the group but maybe someone needs to approve it? Hop in the group chat and I can make sure you're in or whatever. Or anyone, really.
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Apr 12, 2016 21:15
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Strobe posted:If you type the maneuver into the description, no other characters (so "k4" for a 4 speed K, "bl2" for a two bank left, etc) it should execute even if the automated stuff is being finicky. Hmm, I wasn't aware of that - I'll have to give that a go too, when I finally get a proper game in. (Speaking of which, I'll be at work for another 8-9 hours, however once I get back I'll be up for a game. No idea about whether any of you guys will be online/available then, though)
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Apr 12, 2016 23:06
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If anyone is around and up for it, I'm down for a game right now.
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Apr 13, 2016 00:36
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I picked it up because why not, it'll help me practice. I'd like to do some games in the future, so I joined the SAXWING group as Sigma_One.
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Apr 13, 2016 00:37
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Strobe posted:If anyone is around and up for it, I'm down for a game right now. Still looking? Hit me up on BP IRC if you are.
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Apr 13, 2016 00:45
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Wrong thread. Bleep bloop i am a astromech
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Apr 13, 2016 01:16
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I'm thinking about taking a XXX list next tournament, how does it look? Wedge Antilles [Guidance Chips, Adaptability, Proton Torpedoes, R5-K6] (35) Luke Skywalker [Guidance Chips, Lone Wolf, Proton Torpedoes, R2-D2] (38) Biggs Darklighter [Integrated Astromech, Veteran Instincts, R2-D6] (27) The idea is to have Wedge and Biggs together while Luke does his thing.
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Apr 13, 2016 01:18
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Talas posted:I'm thinking about taking a XXX list next tournament, how does it look? Biggs doesn't really need Veteran Instincts. It's kind of a waste of the points, he's better off with a 1 point astromech that helps improve his survivability like R4-D6 or an R5 Astromech. If you really want to get fancy and give him an EPT I'd go with Determination, but that's about it. Every point you put on Biggs is a point that's probably going down in flames, and he doesn't need a better PS to do his thing. Wedge also really wants Predator, like, a lot. My suggestion would be to drop the EPT-bot from Biggs and give him like a generic R5 if you don't have R4-D6, then drop the astromech from Wedge entirely and give him Predator. Luke looks fine as he is.
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Apr 13, 2016 01:27
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My suggestion is a straight swap between Proton Torpedoes and R2-D2 on Luke, with the appropriate change from Guidance Chips to Integrated Astromech.
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Apr 13, 2016 01:32
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Kai Tave posted:Wedge also really wants Predator, like, a lot. My suggestion would be to drop the EPT-bot from Biggs and give him like a generic R5 if you don't have R4-D6, then drop the astromech from Wedge entirely and give him Predator. Luke looks fine as he is. Strobe posted:My suggestion is a straight swap between Proton Torpedoes and R2-D2 on Luke, with the appropriate change from Guidance Chips to Integrated Astromech. 
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Apr 13, 2016 01:39
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Good games, Battuta. Get any insight into how to fly that Biggs at the beginning between those two?
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Apr 13, 2016 03:25
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So last night someone flew Biggs with a ghost. I didn't quite understand it, since normally you want to leash the damage to the big thing first, not visa vrersa. It did beat me (not that it's saying much). the list I flew was a "ghost" with Agent Kallus, Stele (Advanced) and Ep Ace. Epsioon ace died super fast. I crashed a few times with the phantom, not letting me cloak. I tried to focus mostly on Biggs, but I took a lot of hits from the ghost, not being able to do much to arc dodge from the ghost. I'm not so sure about Agent Kallus anymore. I really wanted to love him, and he seems neat, but for 2 points he feels so limited. I can only use it on one enemy, and once it's gone, it's spent. It feels like I'd be better spending those points on a sabataur, int agent or Tactician. Maybe it'd be dickish, but I'm tempted to refuse to play against ghosts (or k-wing TLT lists) in casual play. It's just really boring to play against. I don't really mind a single smaller support ship like the HWK, or a Y-wing with TLT supporting a fleet of arc dodgers. And I fly han solo sometimes, so maybe this is just picking out as not likeing something I don't fly. I don't think I've flown against the falcon, though I have flown against the outrider, and they seem somewhat simualr in style and it didn't feel quite as annoying as the ghost (which I've flown against twice now)., I think particularly because of that double shot with the phantom. Sure the falcon can shoot twice - if the first shot missed. Maybe it is balanced though with the point cost of the phantom to get that second shot, I admit, I'm not a very good pilot anyway.
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Apr 13, 2016 03:53
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The Ghost is not particularly tough to beat, just shoot it a lot. It blows up really fast, and moreover it does so very predictably, you don't have to worry about big statistical swings off green dice. That's why people run Biggs with it, Biggs is one of the only ways to keep it alive a few turns longer. If you're bumping with your Phantom practice a lot! It is vital that you get a cloak every turn, preferably by recloaking with Advanced Cloaking Device after a shot. Strobe posted:Good games, Battuta. Get any insight into how to fly that Biggs at the beginning between those two? Haha, mostly just "make sure Biggs is in range 3". Strobe and I played TTS finally, our wangs clashed fiercely. He ran 10/10/9 Luke/Wes/Wedge, with Wes as debuffer, Luke as unkillable R2D2 closer, and Wedge as predator wrecking ball. No munitions, just old school. I ran the calculation Jan/proton Wedge/Biggs list we talked about a bit upthread. The first game was a loving disaster on my part: I set up all the obstacles in a neat slanted line and then, uh, landed Wedge and Jan on them, repeatedly. I would have played a great game if this game was about ESA comet rendezvous missions. Also I did not handle ranges well at all, and Strobe was able to grab shots on Jan when Biggs fell behind. He timed all his k-turns and regular turns perfectly and I think he had 2 or 3 ships on target every single turn. The second game was really close! (I won this one, spoiler, but if we had to call a winner Strobe clearly had the better MOV over the two). Strobe slow-rolled into the first joust and I was able to guess right to plant Biggs at range 3 while setting up my Wedge for a Jan-amped proton torpedo shot on Goatee Wedge. We merged in, he chewed up my Biggs, my Wedge killed his Wedge, we flew past each other but Jan and Wedge were able to get guns on Wes and kill him. His Luke killed Jan and it came down to a fresh BB8/Predator Wedge against fresh R2D2 Luke closer! I think Strobe and I agree that he lost the fight off a mis-judged 1 green which gave Wedge an unopposed range 1. Luke had to k-turn afterwards to get me in arc and Wedge was able to get in his face with full modifiers for the kill.
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Apr 13, 2016 04:18
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The worst part of that second game is I had the 4k queued up and everything, and psyched myself out. I thought you had the angle and the motive to block the k, and ended up in the spot to explode instead. Valuable lesson learned: better to take the potential for no combat at all and a stress, than getting shot with good mods and not shooting.
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Apr 13, 2016 04:42
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Strobe posted:The worst part of that second game is I had the 4k queued up and everything, and psyched myself out. I thought you had the angle and the motive to block the k, and ended up in the spot to explode instead. Valuable lesson learned: better to take the potential for no combat at all and a stress, than getting shot with good mods and not shooting. Truth.
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Apr 13, 2016 05:00
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Just watching the Stele Enterprises recorded stream of the Roanoke tournament. I take everything back. The worst crime committed at this tournament is the fact that everyone and his dog was playing Palpatine + Aces and holy poo poo is it the most boring thing ever.
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Apr 13, 2016 05:57
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Endman posted:Just watching the Stele Enterprises recorded stream of the Roanoke tournament. The Round 1 video of a Soontir/Carnor list just kinda flying head on into a BBY list whose gimmicks all ignore evade dice more or less was pretty funny.
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Apr 13, 2016 06:13
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