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Ambrose Burnside posted:So I might want to get a production run of widgets machined in the near-mid future- simple things, maybe two or three fairly conservative milling operations from plain ol smallish aluminium blocks (like 2"x2"x1") and only one or two tooling changes, probably 50-100 units to start. Simple enough that I'd design the thing in Solidworks myself. This really is a "how long is a string" bullshit unanswerable question, but verrrrrry approximately, how much would that cost me? Would simplifying my design from "very simple already" cut that cost, or is most of the expense gonna be fixed because of setup n teardown n labour et al for a small run? Can all the operations be done in a single setup or does it need to be flipped or otherwise re-positioned?
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Apr 13, 2016 02:33
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Wandering Orange posted:Can all the operations be done in a single setup or does it need to be flipped or otherwise re-positioned? Single setup.
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Apr 13, 2016 05:19
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Ambrose Burnside posted:Any reason you can't source locally? I'm assuming you need metric sizes? I can ask at McKinnon next time I'm there if they can do metric sizing for brass stuff. Not metric sizes. McKinnon has not returned my email, and I need the metal asap. It drives me mental when companies don't return emails with people trying to give them money.
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Apr 13, 2016 12:27
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Ambrose Burnside posted:Single setup. If it's single setup, the tolerance are pretty wide, and all the tooling needed are fractional inch, and it can be held in a vise then the main time cost is cutting and squaring the stock. It's not going to be like, a hundred bucks, but it's definitely not going to be over 5000. If it's just like, drill and tap 4 holes then it'll probably be at the low end. If it's cool to have 2 ends saw cut let the shop know and it'll go a lot faster though the stock cost may go up. For reference must of the shops I've worked in (mold shops) charge ~$85/hour for labor. Setup fee will be extra for a cnc program, though they might make an apprentice do the job on a manual machine to build character. Samuel L. Hacksaw fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Apr 13, 2016 |
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Apr 13, 2016 13:38
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Q!=E
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Apr 13, 2016 13:46
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Brekelefuw posted:Not metric sizes. Yeah, they just straight-up don't use the email listed on their site, it's frustrating. They don't care because their customers are mostly old-fashioned and 99% just call orders in or physically bring detailed lists to the desk, but dang. I made an inquiry with an American company about their titanium wire and they never got back to me and look at that, I went with a different supplier
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Apr 13, 2016 16:00
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I have always done email business with them before. Now that I know I can get it cheap online, it's less work for me to have it shipped to my door than to leave work early to drive across the city and pick it up. Their (sub $100) loss.
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Apr 13, 2016 18:05
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Oh, whoops, that musta changed- i tried a couple of times a couple years back and they never replied, and when i asked the counter guy he said "nah just call stuff in". Never tried again after that.
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Apr 13, 2016 18:42
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Anyone else think it's curious that AvE has just posted a video relating to the hydraulic press video posted recently in this very thread? They are among us!
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Apr 13, 2016 21:01
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Rapulum_Dei posted:Anyone else think it's curious that AvE has just posted a video relating to the hydraulic press video posted recently in this very thread? Ambrose Burnside posted:So I might want to get a production run of widgets machined in the near-mid future- simple things, maybe two or three fairly conservative milling operations from plain ol smallish aluminium blocks (like 2"x2"x1") and only one or two tooling changes, probably 50-100 units to start. Simple enough that I'd design the thing in Solidworks myself. This really is a "how long is a string" bullshit unanswerable question, but verrrrrry approximately, how much would that cost me? Would simplifying my design from "very simple already" cut that cost, or is most of the expense gonna be fixed because of setup n teardown n labour et al for a small run? It's a 3.25" Diameter toroidal/ring shaped piece of 3/8" PVC sheet with a taper cut on the inside, plus 4 thru holes, and a single tapped 4-40 on the edge of the ring. Price for 1: $124. Price for 3: $98 each. Price for 10: $71 each. Price for 25: $41 each. Price for 40: $32 each. Notice the steep drop at over 10 pieces? That's when they CNC it, rather than have an old timer do it manually. You may want to call around to different shops. Right now in the US, shops in TX/LA are dirt cheap because of the oil prices...
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Apr 13, 2016 21:20
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Seems everyone near me on CL REALLY values their welders. Made a few offers to people, but basically cutting their price in half is a tough pill to swallow even for people who have had same machine up for a while. In other news: Hobart handler 140 for sale at Tractor Supply for $50 off (470 final). Seems to have great reviews and claims to weld up to 1/4". Pretty tempting. Might revisit in a bit.
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Apr 13, 2016 22:12
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Crazyeyes posted:Seems everyone near me on CL REALLY values their welders. Made a few offers to people, but basically cutting their price in half is a tough pill to swallow even for people who have had same machine up for a while. I have a HH140 (along with some Hobart 030 wire and a bottle of C25) and it won't do 3/16" or 1/4" steel on normal residential 120V 15A, it needs a dedicated 20A+ circuit. And God help you if there is anything else on the circuit like my garage where all of the outlets are on the same line, then you're lucky to tack weld some 1/8" together.
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Apr 13, 2016 22:27
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Hobart Handler is good, but get a 190, it runs on 220. Well worth the extra cost... especially if you don't have a stick welder yet.
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Apr 13, 2016 23:46
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Ambrose Burnside posted:So I might want to get a production run of widgets machined in the near-mid future- simple things, maybe two or three fairly conservative milling operations from plain ol smallish aluminium blocks (like 2"x2"x1") and only one or two tooling changes, probably 50-100 units to start. Simple enough that I'd design the thing in Solidworks myself. This really is a "how long is a string" bullshit unanswerable question, but verrrrrry approximately, how much would that cost me? Would simplifying my design from "very simple already" cut that cost, or is most of the expense gonna be fixed because of setup n teardown n labour et al for a small run? If you've got it in Solidworks, upload it to shapeways / imaterialise and similar and see what they quote for laser sintered Al. Additive process can work out more cost effective in some very specific applications and quantities. I'm doing a short run of model locomotive suspension pieces for a local engineer and bronze infused stainless out of iMaterialise placed them at £30 a pop instead of 50+ each for cast / cnc. You can make it cheaper my making it more intricate as you are paying for the material, not the work. So making something hollow or latticed or wireframe or adding loads of lightening cuts makes poo poo cheaper. Draw it on the computer machine, have robots build it for you. Brave new world.
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Apr 14, 2016 00:03
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ReelBigLizard posted:If you've got it in Solidworks, upload it to shapeways / imaterialise and similar and see what they quote for laser sintered Al. Additive process can work out more cost effective in some very specific applications and quantities. I'm doing a short run of model locomotive suspension pieces for a local engineer and bronze infused stainless out of iMaterialise placed them at £30 a pop instead of 50+ each for cast / cnc. You can make it cheaper my making it more intricate as you are paying for the material, not the work. So making something hollow or latticed or wireframe or adding loads of lightening cuts makes poo poo cheaper. t-this is hosed up (thank you I did not consider this)
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Apr 14, 2016 00:25
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Oh and, the whole Royal Armouries collection just went online. The perfect combination historical resource and metalwork porn gallery: https://collections.royalarmouries.org/#/objects 
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Apr 14, 2016 00:28
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Any jewelers in here? I posted this in the jewelry thread but it seems a bit dead.  How difficult would it be to ad 1.5" to this bracelet? The guy who has it is selling it for a hair under scrap price and I was giving serious thought to picking it up till I found out it's only 7.5" and I need a 9".
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Apr 14, 2016 02:16
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ReelBigLizard posted:Oh and, the whole Royal Armouries collection just went online. The perfect combination historical resource and metalwork porn gallery: Turns out Battle-Mages did exist!
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Apr 14, 2016 02:32
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AbsentMindedWelder posted:Hobart Handler is good, but get a 190, it runs on 220. Well worth the extra cost... especially if you don't have a stick welder yet. I agree with your logic, but I don't have access to 220.
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Apr 14, 2016 02:32
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Got some new hammers for work. So far they feel really nice and move metal in a way my other hammers dont 
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Apr 14, 2016 18:23
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Are those handles made of steel? How loving heavy are those?
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Apr 14, 2016 19:37
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Delrin handles and delrin faces. The heaviest one is 2.4oz !
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Apr 14, 2016 20:07
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ReelBigLizard posted:Oh and, the whole Royal Armouries collection just went online. The perfect combination historical resource and metalwork porn gallery: OMG the filters... Use the filters.
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Apr 14, 2016 21:53
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MrPete posted:Adding to the angle grinder safety chat, don't forget to look where the sparks are flying. Or you'll end up setting your crotch on fire and have to cockpunch yourself to try and put them out. AbsentMindedWelder posted:I maintain the position that the angle grinder is the most dangerous tool in my shop. 10,000+ loving RPM... Only thing that spins that fast typically is a woodworking router, which has its own set of hazards, dose not compare to the angle grinder. I cut my left index finger to the bone and even nicked the bone a little bit when an angle grinder WITH A SIDE HANDLE AND SHIELD was in use. I was cutting a long bolt under tension, it pinched the cutoff wheel and in a split second I nearly went from kastein the ten fingered to kastein the nine and a half fingered when it kicked hard and unexpectedly. It felt like the shield whacked me and I didn't realize I'd cut myself badly till I looked and saw blood oozing out of the ends of the cut and a nice bright white bone at the bottom. That was an immediate ER trip. Fortunately the only (small) artery it severed, it cauterized, I didn't cut any tendons or nerves, and it didn't go into the joint, just into the middle of a segment, so after 3 stitches and a few weeks it healed up. That was in 2011 and I still have a nasty ugly lumpy scar to this day. I also injured an eye (fortunately just a spark went into it - not a wire from a wirewheel or a fragment of a blade or anything) and it cost me and my insurance company nearly 6 thousand dollars to fish a tiny rusted fragment of steel out of my cornea (it went 1/3 of the way through!) by the time all was said and done. Wear gloves, use your guards AND SECOND HANDGRIP, keep a very secure grip on both, and keep anything you want unmodified (face, neck, giblets are high priority) out of the plane of the spinning disc. Seriously. Do as I say, not as I do. A birth-control style facemask wouldn't be a bad idea either. Also, when cutting and welding a lot, a good respirator is probably wise. Brekelefuw posted:Got some new hammers for work. So far they feel really nice and move metal in a way my other hammers dont This is my hammer. There are many like it, but this one is mine. (1L widemouth nalgene and Subaru catcon for scale)  Ambrose Burnside posted:In that particular thing, no- anywhere with temper colour was hot-worked, so it was effectively normalized and then let to air-cool. but i also hammered on a lot of it after forming, so the cold-working is gonna come through and not the unequal heating. The oxide layer is super tough, it held up just fine to being hammered on cold- it's ~apparently~ the result of titanium dioxide being partially transparent, so the reflects the depth of the oxide layer as visible light passes through and reflects off the metallic titanium underneath.
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Apr 14, 2016 23:10
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titanium's colours are also super-weird b/c, if you're used to temper colours, you flash through them real quick on the way to glowing and they're kind of irrelevant- with titanium you heat it up to glowing, and -then- you can see the anodization colours cycle through on top of the underlying glow, as the oxide layer continually thickens as you keep the torch on it in an oxidizing atmosphere. i've gotten a piece cherry-to-cold-to-cherry-again and only passed through half the colour spectrum.
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Apr 14, 2016 23:49
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Finished my tube forming jig today. The white form is changeable to whatever curve I want to bend. The tube gets pushed by the form through the black rollers. The rollers are delrin with some bearings press fit in the bottom. Didn't get a chance to prep a tube to test fully, but it should work. The tube in the picture is the shape I want to recreate. Also got to use my 4th axis for the first time to cut the grooves in the rollers.  
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Apr 17, 2016 04:00
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Pretty clever, is the form polycaprolactone?
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Apr 17, 2016 18:00
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TerminalSaint posted:Pretty clever, is the form polycaprolactone? I think so. Commercial name for the plastic is Instamorph.
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Apr 17, 2016 20:24
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thermosetting plastic is some cool rear end poo poo, ive mostly used it for nightmare fixturing (repousse stonesetting in a finished ring, good god) and bespoke softjaws for vises and punch grips and stuff like that but its really good for quick non-marring low-intensity-use jigs from what little fooling around ive done in that regard
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Apr 17, 2016 21:06
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I helped out with a TIG welding class over the weekend. I've been MIG welding for a year, and I know the basics. I saw the shop manager use the TIG welder to assemble a forge, and I thought "that looks pretty easy!" After doing it for two days, I realize it may not be easier, but I certainly enjoy it more. I was able to get a decent bead on a butt weld, but one of the teenage kids in the class was able to do some great work on a small scale. he built some shelf frames out of 1/2" square tubing, and was able to get great looking welds on all 4 sides of his joints. We messed around with welding aluminum in the last hour. Looking forward to practicing more and making this a more useful skill. We're also getting the steel yard educational space cleaned up and working well. The students were pretty happy to walk in to a shop with 5 TIG welders set up and ready. At the end of the class, I had them switch out all the equipment for MIG welders, since we're teaching high schoolers in the morning. I wanted those kids to walk in and be happy to see their space set up and working, too.
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Apr 18, 2016 02:28
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Found an old ESAB miggy 125 welder, capable of 1 or 3-phase operation, 50 bucks.... hmmm. I don't think I need a MIG that much, just for 50 bucks it sounds hard to skip on an ESAB. It's a good model I hear, but proprietary parts make new hoses and such expensive, and just plain not made anymore. But there adapters you can buy online.
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Apr 18, 2016 12:39
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I recently joined a makerspace that has some good lathes and mills, but the cutting tools for general use are some classic tragedy_of_the_commons.txt. What recommendations would people have for endmills and turning tools for the enthusiastic home gamer? Is something like Shars decent for getting a start? Most of what I'm planning on working is mild steel, so I know that means 4 flutes (or more) for endmills and negative rake for inserts, but beyond that I'm not sure where to really start. (It's a lot easier with setup and metrology tools where I can just look for good, used Starrets, B&S, and Mitutoyo stuff)
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Apr 18, 2016 13:17
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Waldstein Sonata posted:I recently joined a makerspace that has some good lathes and mills, but the cutting tools for general use are some classic tragedy_of_the_commons.txt. What recommendations would people have for endmills and turning tools for the enthusiastic home gamer? Is something like Shars decent for getting a start? Most of what I'm planning on working is mild steel, so I know that means 4 flutes (or more) for endmills and negative rake for inserts, but beyond that I'm not sure where to really start. (It's a lot easier with setup and metrology tools where I can just look for good, used Starrets, B&S, and Mitutoyo stuff) A lot of that stuff only matters when you're running volume production and a couple percent difference in tool life adds up to thousands of dollars per quarter. a 1/2" & 3/4" HSS mill, some M42 lathe blanks, and a grinder will carry you far. Tooling is more or less priced by volume so go on msc and mcmaster and shop around for whatever's cheapest, sticking to nice round fractional inches whenever possible. For real learn to grind your own lathe tools and then make a flycutter.
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Apr 18, 2016 14:24
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So, not necessarily a metal question. I'm looking at having someone cut a custom spur gear. It's not going to be under a lot of torque so I'm fine with something like ABS but the shape/size is a little odd. It's an internally toothed spur gear with a 7 inch OD. I was wondering if anyone knew any suppliers. It's for a robotics project. I've found brass gears in that size but they're $200+. I'm looking for something closer to the $40-$50 range
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Apr 18, 2016 16:50
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BedBuglet posted:So, not necessarily a metal question. I'm looking at having someone cut a custom spur gear. It's not going to be under a lot of torque so I'm fine with something like ABS but the shape/size is a little odd. It's an internally toothed spur gear with a 7 inch OD. I was wondering if anyone knew any suppliers. It's for a robotics project. I've found brass gears in that size but they're $200+. I'm looking for something closer to the $40-$50 range How much torque is it actually undergoing? Laser cutting it from acrylic would be the easiest option, I'd bet, you can get a scrap that size for less than $30 depending on thickness.
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Apr 18, 2016 17:44
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Waldstein Sonata posted:negative rake for inserts, To expand upon what IGA said, the reason people use negative rake inserts is because then they can be made with cutting edges on both sides, so you can get (shape)*2 cutting edges on one insert. So a triangular cutter has six edges, etc. It requires a stiffer machine with more horsepower to get the same performance as a positive rake cutter, but you save a few cents/dollars per cutter. As a beginner, and/or a hobbyist, stick with M2 or M42, and grind your own shapes as needed. Only bother with carbide if you're cutting something super hard, or you can buy the inserts dirt cheap.
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Apr 18, 2016 20:05
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BedBuglet posted:So, not necessarily a metal question. I'm looking at having someone cut a custom spur gear. It's not going to be under a lot of torque so I'm fine with something like ABS but the shape/size is a little odd. It's an internally toothed spur gear with a 7 inch OD. I was wondering if anyone knew any suppliers. It's for a robotics project. I've found brass gears in that size but they're $200+. I'm looking for something closer to the $40-$50 range For my wife's robotics project, we made odd-shaped gears using a 3d printer. The PLA is not an ideal material for gears, of course, but it works, and for a low-torque low-speed application you can't beat the price. The next step up is probably cutting your gear out of a slab using waterjet. If you have access to waterjet, and if you can get some scrap metal of the appropriate size, it can be affordable. For both of these options you need to be able to make up the CAD model to feed to the machine, and you probably need extra material and time because there's a high probability that you'll gently caress it up the first time around. If you can recruit an expert to help you out you'll save a lot of time and probably some money, too. Karia posted:How much torque is it actually undergoing? Laser cutting it from acrylic would be the easiest option, I'd bet, you can get a scrap that size for less than $30 depending on thickness. This requires fairly thin acrylic so it depends on how thick the gear needs to be, but yes, it's an option too, if you have access to a laser cutter. Don't ignore wood as a possible material, either. I've seen MDF gears that work reasonably well. It also sounds crazy but if you can accurately draw/plot/mark/etch your gear onto a piece of material, and if you have a lot of time on your hands, you can hand work a piece of plastic, metal, or wood into a pretty accurate gear using hand tools. Drills, files, sandpaper, etc. If you only ever need exactly one of it and if it doesn't have to be accurate to within hundredths of an inch, it's do-able.
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Apr 18, 2016 20:15
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Oh new machining guy, get this book. Everyone into chipmaking, get this book. Not only because it's the best, but because as a 10 year old non-current edition it is cheap as free. Better coverage of fundamentals like workholding and squaring stock than anything else I've seen. http://www.amazon.com/Machining-Tec...ords=0078298601
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Apr 18, 2016 20:28
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You can 3D print it in ABS and there's stronger materials like XT.
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Apr 18, 2016 21:40
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Any special rules for grinding and buffing titanium? Do I need dedicated belts n wheels (I remember vague rumblings about 'contamination')? This is gonna have to evolve into tumbling titanium soon, anybody have any experience with that?
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Apr 18, 2016 21:56
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