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Instead of having one drop 'timer'(not really a timer, the chance that increments up each room to 80% max and drops back down to 1% once you get a drop) that can drop any kind of drop at total random, there should be 3 separate drop chances that all increment up each room-keys, hearts, and ammo. Make them increment slower than the current one so there's not a ton of drops(say, by half), and now you get only slightly more drops but the drops are way way more consistent because each one can only give you a specific thing.
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Apr 14, 2016 06:11
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Table tech stun is pretty great. Stuns normal enemies roomwide for like 2 seconds. Gundromeda strain is amazing too. Lower enemy health overall. Felt like 20-30% at that, maybe more.
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Apr 14, 2016 06:16
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IronicDongz posted:Instead of having one drop 'timer'(not really a timer, the chance that increments up each room to 80% max and drops back down to 1% once you get a drop) that can drop any kind of drop at total random, there should be 3 separate drop chances that all increment up each room-keys, hearts, and ammo. Make them increment slower than the current one so there's not a ton of drops(say, by half), and now you get only slightly more drops but the drops are way way more consistent because each one can only give you a specific thing. I can work with that. The flat % for ammo was my main concern with RNG, but this method seems balanced and fair. I do think that there should be a fail-safe for keys beyond the shop, though. Maybe the rate increases faster for keys if you have none/one?
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Apr 14, 2016 06:16
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The game just doesn't feel like it plays to its strengths. And the weaknesses exacerbate and build on one another. Cool guns and passive item interactions but too stingy on ammo for many weapons. The game rewards exploration with chests but is stingy on keys. Faster paced than Isaac with emphasis on dodging but enemies feel like bullet sponges, making things feel like a slog especially with the starter pistol. Rewards players for perfecting boss fights (Yay!) with a item you probably don't need if you're good enough to perfect it (Boo!) The basic game is great, and the mechanics play pretty well. The potential to be one of the best twin stick or bullet hell games is there. But it's just not as fun as it could be. It's ludicrous that a game about a crying baby collecting household objects and weird artifacts has cooler weapons than a game who's obsession with guns rivals Borderlands.
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Apr 14, 2016 06:26
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Crash_N_Burn posted:Table tech stun is pretty great. Stuns normal enemies roomwide for like 2 seconds. Gundromeda strain is amazing too. Lower enemy health overall. Felt like 20-30% at that, maybe more. All of the table techs feel strong and really fun to use. I think the blank tech is the silliest though if you can get an ammolet or two.
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Apr 14, 2016 06:30
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I think this is a good game that suffers in comparison to Nuclear Throne, which is perhaps the best smash-TV clone of all time. I think it is way better than BOI, but I could never get past the 4-dim shooting.
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Apr 14, 2016 06:33
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:All of the table techs feel strong and really fun to use. I think the blank tech is the silliest though if you can get an ammolet or two.
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Apr 14, 2016 06:34
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Table Tech Money is nice because it instantly creates a lot of cover without you have to cross to it. The actual money part is like, 0.5 casings per table. Definitely sucks that it works against all the other table techs though.
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Apr 14, 2016 06:36
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So many bad design decisions mixed in with the good, you'd almost wonder if the devs did it on purpose to keep players talking bout this game. 
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Apr 14, 2016 07:01
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JVNO posted:It's ludicrous that a game about a crying baby collecting household objects and weird artifacts has cooler weapons than a game who's obsession with guns rivals Borderlands. I wouldn't say this at all, one reason isaac felt so boring to me is that I never felt like I was using a "weapon," just the slightly stat-modified incredibly boring slow, low-fire rate, low-impact, low-damage shot. Very rarely I'd end up with some item that changed it significantly but it never felt fundamentally different to me. Gungeon has a ton of weapons that feel like very distinct items, the big problem is that it doesn't want you to use them most of the time. You are spot on about the game not playing to its strengths though, and that's why I think so many people are complaining very loudly. The artwork is incredible, the game is dripping with personality, and there's a ton of content already implemented that you want to be good. Everything that the game needs to be fantastic is right there, and it's solely held back by bad design, which is what's so frustrating. It's kind of a tragic game right now, and I'm worried that the Git Gud dumbfucks on their forums are going to make sure it stays that way.
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Apr 14, 2016 07:14
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Whats the deal with the red caped bullets? I haven't seen anyone in 30+ runs now. I just want the drat unlock!
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Apr 14, 2016 07:19
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i got two completions in a row today, which is solid proof that the people who complain about no ammo are just bad at video games
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Apr 14, 2016 07:34
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Im glad the game allows you to cheat at Winchesters game when you have the ability to fly.
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Apr 14, 2016 07:58
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DolphinCop posted:i got two completions in a row today, which is solid proof that the people who complain about no ammo are just bad at video games
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Apr 14, 2016 08:01
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Okay, I havent seen a caped bullet for 50 + runs now. Anyone else running into the problem?
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Apr 14, 2016 08:33
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I don't honestly know what enemy you're talking about.
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Apr 14, 2016 08:38
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FrickenMoron posted:Okay, I havent seen a caped bullet for 50 + runs now. Anyone else running into the problem? Did you kill someones past yet?
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Apr 14, 2016 08:38
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Jusupov posted:Did you kill someones past yet? All of them. Ive run into 3 of them so far and let them live but havent seen any more since 50+ runs. Edit: Finally one of those fuckers spawned, only one left now. 
FrickenMoron fucked around with this message at 09:42 on Apr 14, 2016 |
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Apr 14, 2016 08:39
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DolphinCop posted:i got two completions in a row today, which is solid proof that the people who complain about no ammo are just bad at video games I'm at the point where I'm pretty much guaranteed to beat the Dragun on every run. Game still needs more key drops.
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Apr 14, 2016 10:26
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I still havent beat bullet hell. Waiting for a run that gives me Gunther again.
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Apr 14, 2016 10:32
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thehoodie posted:Every time I think I'm having fun playing this game, I come to this thread and remember that I'm not. Yeah this thread is kinda full of whiny babies. I take my not having fun dose right from the source  While there are some legitimately silly design decisions this game is still about 100x more fun than BOI.
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Apr 14, 2016 11:51
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I disagree.
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Apr 14, 2016 11:55
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Are they planning to release any expansions for this one? Or is it game done as is?
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Apr 14, 2016 12:15
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It's almost certainly too soon to tell.
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Apr 14, 2016 12:37
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Criticism of the game is one thing. People are putting forward valid complaints, like high chance of lovely guns early on with no keys to spare, that can be analyzed, discussed and a potential solution can be brought forward. But when you have people crying for "easy mode" because they keep dying on the first level...
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Apr 14, 2016 13:24
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IronicDongz posted:whether you win or lose it's not fun to spend the first 3 floors using just your basic starting weapon on everything but bosses. I hate to have to keep saying this but it's not so much about winning or losing as it is about the pace of the game Yeah. When I play Nuclear Throne, I have fun from the start. The pace is fast, there's tons of poo poo happening constantly and the game is throwing guns at me with both hands. You'd think this would be the case with Enter the Gungeon, which has "gun" in the name, boasts about how many different guns they have and their bullet hell mechanics. Instead the game ramps up insanely slowly, most of the guns you find are boring (seriously how many lame-rear end "shotgun with a different sprite and a 0.1f difference in damage" weapons can you have in a game?) and everything takes forever. It's sad, too, because the potential is there. The game looks gorgeous and once you get a lucky run in and find fun guns, it's tons of fun! Fans posted:Are they planning to release any expansions for this one? Or is it game done as is? Apparently they have said there will be free updates and paid DLC, but I have no idea where and when they said that. So take it with a grain of salt. Blattdorf posted:But when you have people crying for "easy mode" because they keep dying on the first level... What then? I can kill the Dragun on most of my runs and I've killed the past. I'm pretty good at the game, I'd say, and I don't see who it would hurt to add a separate easy mode with more health or something for people who are having difficulty with the game. I honestly don't see where this elitist "you're not good enough to enjoy this video game" attitude many people seem to have comes from. How does it take anything away from others if worse players also get to have fun? Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Apr 14, 2016 |
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Apr 14, 2016 13:36
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Another thing that could fix the key/gun/ammo situation is increasing the max ammo on the majority of the weapons. Some would only need a slight adjustment or none at all, mainly the AoE/multi target ones like explosives and bows, or ones with already very large ammo capacity like the Vulcan Cannon. For the rest, they could use an upwards adjustment in the ballpark of 50-100% more. This would mean you aren't as required to hoard all your ammo for bosses until you find enough weapons to use the poo poo ones/super efficient ones for the rest of the floor.
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Apr 14, 2016 13:42
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Blattdorf posted:Criticism of the game is one thing. People are putting forward valid complaints, like high chance of lovely guns early on with no keys to spare, that can be analyzed, discussed and a potential solution can be brought forward. I haven't seen a lot of easy mode here, it's mostly fair complaints about how the loot system is lovely and stuff is overly damage spongey. The game appears to be about guns that it encourages you not to use due to a lack of consistent, reliable resources. For every monty haul run there's a stingy pauper's run where you scrabble for resources tooth and nail. Even money drops are unreliable - i've had first levels i end up with ~100 shells and others that i barely get over 30. Some difference is fine but the RNG in this is swingy as all hell. The fact that you have one room drop percent that resets after a drop makes it even worse, since that drop may be a worthless heart. I don't see why they can't split it into two drop chances with keys/ammo sharing one, and blanks/hearts the other - in essence a split chance between guns and health (as i consider blanks a health thing, personally) Also the increasing enemy health per level is just flat perplexing. A bullet kin will take 3 shots on chamber 1 and 6 or whatever a couple levels down. It's the same enemy and the same amount of threat - none, why increase the HP?
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Apr 14, 2016 13:42
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I don't really get the complaints about having to use the default gun for the first three levels. I usually have it out for the first level, then use whatever I get from level 2 onward (unless I only get a boss killing weapon on level one, which is rare), and I rarely run out of ammo for all my guns. Running out of ammo on a couple of mediocre guns is fine, as you can always just throw them in a muncher, or sell them, either of which are fairly common to run into. I also haven't had any problems with keys since the last patch, and I've run maybe 15 runs since then.
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Apr 14, 2016 13:43
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As someone who can consistently beat the game, it would probably be more fun if the chests on the first floor came unlocked. No other changes.
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Apr 14, 2016 13:45
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drink_bleach posted:As someone who can consistently beat the game, it would probably be more fun if the chests on the first floor came unlocked. No other changes. This would help quite a bit imo. One floor leeway in resource build up would be great. I think my most fun run in this was when I reluctantly snagged a laser sight on floor 1 and then had shotgun after shotgun (Huntsman, regular shotgun, sawed off, love shotgun), since a shotgun with a laser sight has precisely almost no spread and you can tag a bullet across a room with every pellet. Still the most OP thing i had was the NES lightgun with angry bullets, since it made the duck shot last precisely forever. 2nd floor boss was the gungorgon and the ducks would even persist around looking for her when she dove under the water - so by the time she bit it there was maybe 5 or 6 ducks flying around.
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Apr 14, 2016 13:55
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Yeah, this game got alot better once I cheated in the unlimited keys. I still suck at it but having multiple guns and items made it more interesting each and every run.
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Apr 14, 2016 14:00
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I got a cool synergy with the light gun, an item that reloads one bullet every time you dodge roll, and an item that shoots an extra bullet out behind you whenever you shoot. I was just shooting out ducks, rolling, shooting more ducks, rolling again and the ducks home so the duck fired out the back is just straight double damage. Everything died in a hail of ducks. Getting better at switching between weapons is making a lot of guns way more useful, like the gungeon ant, you can shoot some fireballs out and set everything on fire and switch to another weapon to clean up and when it reloads in your backpack it doesn't switch to the annoying oil shooting mode which makes it a nice pack-killing, ammo-efficient damage over time weapon.
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Apr 14, 2016 14:19
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Blattdorf posted:But when you have people crying for "easy mode" because they keep dying on the first level... Broken Cog posted:I don't really get the complaints about having to use the default gun for the first three levels. I usually have it out for the first level, then use whatever I get from level 2 onward (unless I only get a boss killing weapon on level one, which is rare), and I rarely run out of ammo for all my guns. Running out of ammo on a couple of mediocre guns is fine, as you can always just throw them in a muncher, or sell them, either of which are fairly common to run into. Like, I could use the guns I have on normal enemies early on and get through stuff faster, but I'm risking getting hosed later if I do that. And I know it can happen, because it's happened to me before, and it sucks-so I don't wanna take that risk. LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Apr 14, 2016 |
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Apr 14, 2016 14:26
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lazorexplosion posted:Getting better at switching between weapons is making a lot of guns way more useful, like the gungeon ant, you can shoot some fireballs out and set everything on fire and switch to another weapon to clean up and when it reloads in your backpack it doesn't switch to the annoying oil shooting mode which makes it a nice pack-killing, ammo-efficient damage over time weapon. I'm betting you can do the same thing with the M16 (or whatever that's an assault rifle with underslung grenade launcher) instead of burning three bullets before reloading into grenades again.
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Apr 14, 2016 14:58
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I'm truly converted to "game lacks keys" camp. I did a bullet run and died to dragun and my stats screen showed 8 pieces of trash in my inventory. I need the patch to hit PS4 asap. I also found wings on 2nd floor and tried to drop them so I could drop down the shaft to grab the TV, but I underestimated how far the item would fling when I took them off and they fell down the shaft. 
poemdexter fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Apr 14, 2016 |
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Apr 14, 2016 15:18
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Holy hell the bloody scarf absolutely owns 
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Apr 14, 2016 15:22
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I wish most regular enemies were weaker and the game leaned into its faster pace more. The enemies don't feel too spongey when you're using a decent weapon- except doing so could seriously jeopardize your boss survivability on far too many runs. My best and most fun runs so far have been when the game specifically hands me a gun that's good for bosses, so I just bank it and then have little need to pathologically save ammo for my other guns. Murdering trash mobs is really fun when I'm using crazy guns. There are so many separate small changes that could individually fix most of my gripes. Lower enemy health, or higher ammo count, or more keys or armour hits preventing loss of 'no hit' boss bonus, or more consistent passives that improve the starting pistol, or a shorter first floor or higher casing yields or... I could go on. The point is any one of these changes could go a long way to reducing the monotony. I really dig the bullet hell aspects- it's a real nice uptick in difficulty compared to BoI. But some aspects of the difficulty feel like unfun garbage. And it feels wrong that in a game about cool guns I end up hoping for kick rear end passives instead because at least that way my infinite ammo pistol (that I'm likely using in lieu of other weapons 60% of the time) gets upgraded. Also the weapons could use a bit more variety other than Bow #20 or another shotgun- but I see this as something that'll get addressed by updates and DLC like BoI.
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Apr 14, 2016 15:28
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Any game that has a fun thing that's balanced around the player not doing said fun thing has design problems. Gungeon is definitely a good game but it sucks to feel penalized for using all of the crazy, powerful guns you can find. Also gently caress the Corsair, what a useless piece of poo poo.
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Apr 14, 2016 15:29
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Yodzilla posted:Any game that has a fun thing that's balanced around the player not doing said fun thing has design problems. Gungeon is definitely a good game but it sucks to feel penalized for using all of the crazy, powerful guns you can find. Corsair is a shittier version of the cannonbowler. It's not... terrible, in small cramped rooms TBH a lot of guns don't feel like they're really all that great - anything out of a brownchest is really nothing more than your basic pistol with ammo
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Apr 14, 2016 15:38
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