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Platystemon posted:Turn on the heater to draw some current? I'm pretty sure this is basically how dynamic braking in diesel-electric trains works, they have huge resistor grids on the roof that let them run the motors as generators and then dissipate that massive amount of energy as heat. Assuming the electric heater in a Tesla is just a resistor setup (no reason it wouldn't be, they're incredibly efficient) it's sort of the same thing on a hugely different scale. It's also funny to think about, in an old gasoline car you might have to turn the heater on going uphill in an attempt to stave off overheating while you worked the engine. In an electric car you might have to turn on the heater going downhill to burn power and make room for regenerative braking.
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Apr 14, 2016 04:10
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wolrah posted:It's also funny to think about, in an old gasoline car you might have to turn the heater on going uphill in an attempt to stave off overheating while you worked the engine. In an electric car you might have to turn on the heater going downhill to burn power and make room for regenerative braking. I’ve heard of people in hybrids turning on the A/C and headlights when descending from Mount Washington. Of course with hybrids you can’t necessarily start with a low battery, and even if you could, it doesn’t take long to fill. 
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Apr 14, 2016 04:17
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Obviously the excess heat should be used to turn wood into charcoal for the cookout at the house 
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Apr 14, 2016 04:22
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I like the idea of outfitting a model s with a dynamic braking grid on the roof. Throw away all that regenerative braking power as heat, that'll piss the environmentalists off! Run a huge rear end fuckoff loud fan to cool it too, just like the locomotives.
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Apr 14, 2016 04:25
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Disgruntled Bovine posted:I like the idea of outfitting a model s with a dynamic braking grid on the roof. Throw away all that regenerative braking power as heat, that'll piss the environmentalists off! Run a huge rear end fuckoff loud fan to cool it too, just like the locomotives. Hook up a fog machine, get a bumper sticker that says “My car is literally coal powered”.
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Apr 14, 2016 04:29
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Platystemon posted:Hook up a fog machine, get a bumper sticker that says “My car is literally coal powered”. "I vape"
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Apr 14, 2016 05:41
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Disgruntled Bovine posted:I like the idea of outfitting a model s with a dynamic braking grid on the roof. Throw away all that regenerative braking power as heat, that'll piss the environmentalists off! Run a huge rear end fuckoff loud fan to cool it too, just like the locomotives. How about just putting big aero braking flaps on the roof?
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Apr 14, 2016 08:04
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Don Lapre posted:Does the car work when its being updated? Could be to prevent malicious loving around. No, but I can use the app to start the car and make it drive forwards or backwards (Summon), so they seem to have a high tolerance for possibly-malicious capabilities.
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Apr 14, 2016 11:21
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wolrah posted:I'm pretty sure this is basically how dynamic braking in diesel-electric trains works, they have huge resistor grids on the roof that let them run the motors as generators and then dissipate that massive amount of energy as heat. Assuming the electric heater in a Tesla is just a resistor setup (no reason it wouldn't be, they're incredibly efficient) it's sort of the same thing on a hugely different scale. It does look like Model S has a 6 kW PTC heater, which is a bit surprising since for example Leaf uses heat pump. But I find it curious that you would call it efficient. Sure, a resistor turns 100% of the electricity it draws in to heat, but that's still far less than the 300% a heat pump could achieve. On an electric vehicle we would have better uses than heating for that electricity.
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Apr 14, 2016 12:01
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Saukkis posted:It does look like Model S has a 6 kW PTC heater, which is a bit surprising since for example Leaf uses heat pump. Bulkier and more expensive hardware is one factor, designed by Californians is another. There are many details that Tesla has been criticized for in proper winter conditions. But to be fair with them, a lot of cars that should know better, BMW and VAG in particular, also have cool quirks or fancy features which turn out to be liabilities below freezing.
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Apr 14, 2016 14:27
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Ola posted:Bulkier and more expensive hardware is one factor, designed by Californians is another. There are many details that Tesla has been criticized for in proper winter conditions. But to be fair with them, a lot of cars that should know better, BMW and VAG in particular, also have cool quirks or fancy features which turn out to be liabilities below freezing. But failing to properly prepare for winter conditions is also a German tradition.
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Apr 14, 2016 14:31
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^^^ Niceee Ola posted:Bulkier and more expensive hardware is one factor, designed by Californians is another. There are many details that Tesla has been criticized for in proper winter conditions. But to be fair with them, a lot of cars that should know better, BMW and VAG in particular, also have cool quirks or fancy features which turn out to be liabilities below freezing.
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Apr 14, 2016 15:01
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Saukkis posted:But I find it curious that you would call it efficient. Sure, a resistor turns 100% of the electricity it draws in to heat, but that's still far less than the 300% a heat pump could achieve. On an electric vehicle we would have better uses than heating for that electricity. I wouldn't call near 100% efficiency not efficient though. Don't heat pumps have issues with heating in really low temperatures? I know they're used for home heating in some regions with moderate winters, but here in Ohio it's pretty much all electric or combustion. I'm not really that familiar with them but I'm pretty sure the core concept is roughly a reversible air conditioner and you're effectively heating your house by cooling the outside. Since Tesla uses a liquid cooling system for the motors and batteries I wouldn't be surprised to find there's also a roughly standard heater core setup like most other cars that handles normal heating needs once the car's warmed up and the resistor pack only fires up when it's needed, sort of like an auxiliary heater on a diesel. wolrah fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Apr 14, 2016 |
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Apr 14, 2016 15:42
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mobby_6kl posted:^^^ Frameless windows which stick or at best isolate poorly. Tight space in wheel arches and wheel arch material which collects snow, leading to wheel rubbing against a block of ice. Diesels which don't get the coolant up to operating temps. VW window motors and locks which freeze up and breaks. Off the top of my head, stuff I've heard about. The only German car I've owned was a 1978 Opel Rekord. Poor choke circuit on the carb and pooling water in the passenger foot well seems to be issues they've resolved. Platystemon posted:But failing to properly prepare for winter conditions is also a German tradition. Haha, nice! I click my heels to you.
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Apr 14, 2016 15:54
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wolrah posted:Don't heat pumps have issues with heating in really low temperatures? I know they're used for home heating in some regions with moderate winters, but here in Ohio it's pretty much all electric or combustion. I'm not really that familiar with them but I'm pretty sure the core concept is roughly a reversible air conditioner and you're effectively heating your house by cooling the outside. Yeah, heat pumps do really well when the difference between outside temperature and desired inside temperature is modest, but when it gets truly cold outside they struggle. Don’t get me wrong, heat pumps are great in a lot of weather, but if that’s the only way Tesla had to heat the car, people would be even more right about complaining about Californian design.
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Apr 14, 2016 16:00
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Modern heat pumps can handle sub zero temps now.
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Apr 14, 2016 16:36
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the heat pump in my Soul works pretty well in -10c , and here in the north of Norway heat pumps are a pretty popular heat source in houses. As far as I know they work down to at least -30c.
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Apr 14, 2016 17:05
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Klogdor posted:the heat pump in my Soul works pretty well in -10c , and here in the north of Norway heat pumps are a pretty popular heat source in houses. As far as I know they work down to at least -30c. You've had it for a month now, tell us more! 30 kWh? Normal range at -10? Whereabouts are you exactly? And does it heat without the heat pump if it's crazy cold?
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Apr 14, 2016 17:24
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Ola posted:You've had it for a month now, tell us more! 30 kWh? Normal range at -10? Whereabouts are you exactly? And does it heat without the heat pump if it's crazy cold? well, I had to leave it behind for my easter vacation since the network of chargers around here pretty much sucks, so I havent used it that much. the temperatures have been at or around 0 the last weeks, but the times I've driven it in -10 I've averaged 16.5 kWh/100km on my 100km return trip to/from work. with an estimated range of around 160 km. with preheating both in the morning and when I return from work the draw from the heater is usually 1-1.5kW. I live in Tromsø, and I have to cross a small mountain pass (maybe 400 meters of elevation from sealevel) oh, and I'm pretty sure its 27kW net.
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Apr 14, 2016 17:39
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160 km isn't much for long range travel, even on your commute you have to charge at work right? Can you preheat via mobile or do you have to get in the car to switch it on?
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Apr 14, 2016 19:20
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You can pre-heat from mobile, or if your schedule is regular it can learn when to pre-heat/cool.
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Apr 14, 2016 19:30
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Subjunctive posted:You can pre-heat from mobile, or if your schedule is regular it can learn when to pre-heat/cool. Can the Soul do that? I know the Model S can and that you have one, just making sure we're unconfused.
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Apr 14, 2016 19:37
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I asked something similar in the small questions thread, but maybe it's too EV-specific. If I live in BC, Canada, and I preordered a Model 3... Am I supposed to expect that the cost for this "mainstream EV" will be like 60k CAD or something insane? If it's in like the 45k range (after incentives), I think it'd still be manageable but anything higher than that and I'm worried I'll have to back out. The Model S has a price difference of around 25k between the US and Canada, but it is a luxury car. I'd assume that with a more affordable car the price difference might not be so huge?
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Apr 14, 2016 20:39
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wolrah posted:Don't heat pumps have issues with heating in really low temperatures? I know they're used for home heating in some regions with moderate winters, but here in Ohio it's pretty much all electric or combustion. I'm not really that familiar with them but I'm pretty sure the core concept is roughly a reversible air conditioner and you're effectively heating your house by cooling the outside. Modern residential heat pumps work just fine at -20°C and some models produce more heat than they use electricity even at -30°C. I think they are pretty common in northern Finland. And yes, it is pretty much an air conditioning unit that has been designed to work in both directions. So the concern about increased bulk shouldn't be much of an issue since Tesla already has a heat pump, it would have just required some extra designing. But still, can't say that the Tesla decision was wrong, the performance and success of Model S speaks for itself. But it would be interesting to learn more about their reasoning for not using heat pump. And I still wouldn't call resistors efficient just because they achieve 100%. Is it even possible to create a heater with less than 100% efficiency, unless you use a light bulb in a windowed room.
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Apr 14, 2016 20:39
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Ola posted:Can the Soul do that? I know the Model S can and that you have one, just making sure we're unconfused. Oh, sorry, don't know about the Soul, must have misread. Sorry!
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Apr 14, 2016 20:56
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Vic Boss posted:
Get educated on your import taxes and fees. I wouldn't be surprised if you had some. The price difference of S is big, but perhaps some fees are flat and others are %. If the price turns out bad for you, you have to cancel. It means you have to give up your $1000 preorder. You'll only get $1000 back. Not sure how this translates to CAD.
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Apr 14, 2016 21:59
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Vic Boss posted:I asked something similar in the small questions thread, but maybe it's too EV-specific. Worst case its too expensive and you get your deposit back. For now don't even worry about it.
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Apr 14, 2016 22:04
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Agreed, and sometimes pricing in CAD doesn't make any sense. Like they make it par when our dollar is down, or 20% extra when the dollar is up. So wait until you actually see the car. If it was me, Id get my $1k back, and use it for cheetoes or something, because if you are trying to save money, pre-order means nothing. They aren't going to sell the cheap ones first, and in BC, we don't have the same incentive cap. Ours is just dollar amount total. So if Chevy sells more EV's before the tesla exists, then the pool of incentive money is gone.
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Apr 14, 2016 22:23
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Ola posted:Get educated on your import taxes and fees. I wouldn't be surprised if you had some. The price difference of S is big, but perhaps some fees are flat and others are %. If the price turns out bad for you, you have to cancel. It means you have to give up your $1000 preorder. You'll only get $1000 back. Not sure how this translates to CAD. There should be zero government imposed import duties or taxes due, because of NAFTA, due to the car being built in the US. Randomly applied "we're selling it for this much because we can" markups and currency hedges applied by the manufacturer are a different matter though.
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Apr 14, 2016 23:49
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Okay thanks guys. I'll just try and forget about it until more info's out, but here's hoping I can afford it. First car I've ever given a poo poo about.
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Apr 15, 2016 00:17
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Linedance posted:There should be zero government imposed import duties or taxes due, because of NAFTA, due to the car being built in the US. Randomly applied "we're selling it for this much because we can" markups and currency hedges applied by the manufacturer are a different matter though. I thought I heard something about it not qualifying for NAFTA's non tariffed-ness because the cells being made in Japan caused it to not be be American enough, but I don't have a source on that.
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Apr 15, 2016 14:29
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borkencode posted:I thought I heard something about it not qualifying for NAFTA's non tariffed-ness because the cells being made in Japan caused it to not be be American enough, but I don't have a source on that. That's the case, I believe it's a 6% tariff. The 3's batteries are all supposed to come from the Gigafactory though, AIUI, in which case it'll be fine.
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Apr 15, 2016 14:46
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Ola posted:160 km isn't much for long range travel, even on your commute you have to charge at work right? Can you preheat via mobile or do you have to get in the car to switch it on? I usually have 110 kilometers left when I get to work, so no, I don't have to charge at work (but charging there saves me power at home, so why not.) This is with the aircondition running and everything, I havent really tried driving very range-friendly yet. It beats the leafs at work with a pretty good margin, and I assume I'll be able to squeeze some more range out of it if I bother to try. There's no mobile connectivity in the european soul, the hardware might be there but Kia says they dont have a telemetry centre in europe, or something like that. So the preheating is done via the dash. I can set different times per day of the week, but thats pretty much it. This is not a problem since I leave from home and work at pretty much the same time every day.
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Apr 16, 2016 16:45
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Sounds good!
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Apr 16, 2016 16:53
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I've seen plugs for block heaters in Canadian parking lots. Do people charge off those or just keep their cars from freezing solid?
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Apr 17, 2016 04:09
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They're mostly used to avoid freeze-up, but I know some people who charge off them in some places (like work parking lots).
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Apr 17, 2016 04:13
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http://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-model-3-behind-the-scenes/ Motor Trend got themselves a photo shoot of the Model 3 prototype at the Gigafactory. Their photos don't really show us anything new, but what was interesting is that they had been forbidden to photograph any part of the interior, or to open either trunk (on the grounds that it's not a finished product). It seems safe to assume that the barebones interior with the tacked-on-looking touch screen is in fact just a placeholder. Hopefully this also means that the minuscule trunk is also just a placeholder.
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Apr 23, 2016 03:21
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Given that the guys giving rides at the launch event said that the screen design & placement is the final intention, I don't think that's a safe assumption. They will be revealing the rest at their part two reveal, whenever that is (much closer to launch). Also they were touting the headroom from that full-glass canopy at the back - the reason it's not a hatch-back - but I think there might have been some talk that that's an option? In which case a hardback might not be entirely out of the question (but I assume it's unlikely).
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Apr 23, 2016 14:49
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Hey Y'all, I've been thinking about something quite a bit, so I wanted to pass it by the thread and see what you guys think. So I've had an E-Golf for about a year now. It's an amazing car, sans the low range. Having it for commutes has literally changed my life; it's so fun to drive that it makes the commute bearable, which is saying a LOT. Here's the issue: I feel that having an electric car has made me an rear end in a top hat driver, and it worries me for the future of driving. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not sporting Tesla power, but my commute is 45 minutes of mountain roads, meaning that the E-Golf can just rip it up. An unfortunate side effect of driving electric is that every other car feels like it's covered in molasses. As a direct result of having the electric car, my incidences of passing went WAY up (on single lane roads) because you can just smoke someone going too slow for your liking. I even take pleasure in loving with people who don't get the rules of the road; for instance, at a 4 way stop, if someone goes out of turn when it's my right of way, I like blasting straight up on their poo poo and before they even know it, you're right there, making it obvious that they hosed up. Anyways this isn't about excusing my behavior- far from it, I think the car has brought out the worst in me, and I'm not proud of it. But it's important to understand that before getting this car, I was just a regular guy on his commute. Now looking back over the past year, it is clear that the car changed me, it changed how I drive, and not for the better (even if it is more fun). So my question to the thread is this: do you think that electric cars, when they start gaining serious presence on the roadways, will lead to a more dangerous driving experience? Personally I am straight up scared at putting electric cars in the hands of demographics that could never have one, like teenagers. Oh god, just imagine a teenager with an electric car. Conversely, imagine a senile 85 year old with a Tesla. Scary world we're heading into, and it makes me even more anxious for self-driving cars to make a serious entrance, because the roads ain't getting any safer if this amount of torque is going to get distributed to the masses.
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Apr 26, 2016 04:24
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Taima posted:Anyways this isn't about excusing my behavior- far from it, I think the car has brought out the worst in me, and I'm not proud of it. But it's important to understand that before getting this car, I was just a regular guy on his commute. Now looking back over the past year, it is clear that the car changed me, it changed how I drive, and not for the better (even if it is more fun). There's already cars that perform as well as your car that people already drive. Are certainly plenty of cars that need more attention to drive fast. The problem is the driver, not the car. e: am I to understand that the e-Golf has a godly 200 ft-lb of torque?
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Apr 26, 2016 04:31
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