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Doc Hawkins posted:TempleOS is the Time Cube of programming; Urbit is the Atlas Shrugged. Any "hello world" program written in Urbit instead outputs "Who is John Galt?"
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Apr 14, 2016 02:16
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Abjad Soup posted:I wasn't saying jack poo poo myself, I just googled for "example nock hoon program", went to the first result (which is Yarvin's tutorial/guidebook!), and then grabbed the first piece that wasn't the obscurassembly BS.
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Apr 14, 2016 03:10
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Fututor Magnus posted:Man, I can't pretend to know about this, but isn't the reason that assembly (and low-level PL's like C) isn't functional is because the functional paradigm is far too abstracting to be doing poo poo with the processor? The entire point of assembly is to mirror the internal operations of the CPU, so anything that doesn't do that is an abstraction. This ignores the fact that certain modern CPUs consider assembly & the resulting bytecode to be an abstraction and don't actually operate like that under the hood. This doesn't mean that there haven't been machines tailored to specific languages / language types before, only that general purpose computers don't think like functional programmers. Then again, I think the only people that think like functional programmers are functional programmers. There's a high degree of correlation between that type of thinking and absurdities, such as the relationship between creationist thinking and engineering degrees. If you think you can solve every problem with your toolset, you will / if your favorite tool is a hammer, everything seems like a nail. See also: those loving charts.
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Apr 14, 2016 03:32
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McGlockenshire posted:Then again, I think the only people that think like functional programmers are functional programmers. There's a high degree of correlation between that type of thinking and absurdities, such as the relationship between creationist thinking and engineering degrees. If you think you can solve every problem with your toolset, you will / if your favorite tool is a hammer, everything seems like a nail. See also: those loving charts. I... what?
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Apr 14, 2016 03:39
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Asymmetrikon posted:I... what? "those loving charts", see also: If it's the engineering/creationist thing, google "Salem hypothesis" and pick a source you trust.
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Apr 14, 2016 04:44
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No, it was more the sweeping assertion that "there's a high degree of correlation between that type of thinking (like functional programmers) and absurdities" with no actual anything to back it up. It was a new stupid claim that I hadn't heard yet, so I was a bit taken aback.
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Apr 14, 2016 04:48
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Asymmetrikon posted:No, it was more the sweeping assertion that "there's a high degree of correlation between that type of thinking (like functional programmers) and absurdities" with no actual anything to back it up. It was a new stupid claim that I hadn't heard yet, so I was a bit taken aback. Yeah, sorry, drunkposting a bit and jumped the gun on that thought. It's an observation in similarity of behavior between thought patterns that lead to creationist engineers and personal observations I've made of FP types that begin applying similar thinking to places where it doesn't belong, including the linked materials. It's anecdote and observation, nothing else.
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Apr 14, 2016 04:57
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Frankly, I can't think of a clique in programming/CS that doesn't have the whole 'hammer -> everything nail' problem (OO programmers, FP programmers, kernel developers, OTP people, Pythonistas, you name it.) It might be just that stratification between different 'types' of programmer that's the cause.
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Apr 14, 2016 05:06
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McGlockenshire posted:The entire point of assembly is to mirror the internal operations of the CPU, so anything that doesn't do that is an abstraction. This ignores the fact that certain modern CPUs consider assembly & the resulting bytecode to be an abstraction and don't actually operate like that under the hood. This doesn't mean that there haven't been machines tailored to specific languages / language types before, only that general purpose computers don't think like functional programmers. But no one now has computers with processors built for "functional" assembly languages. So if Nock is even more abstracting than even assembly (when modern machines are considered), that just makes it even more useless than I imagined it to be. Curtis's goal is to have a platform that on run on any modern machine, so it's a loving wonder why he got any VC funding for Urbit. McGlockenshire posted:Yeah, sorry, drunkposting a bit and jumped the gun on that thought. It's an observation in similarity of behavior between thought patterns that lead to creationist engineers and personal observations I've made of FP types that begin applying similar thinking to places where it doesn't belong, including the linked materials. It's anecdote and observation, nothing else. Curtis used to comment on blogs about the trap of mathematicizing things, and specifically criticized the tendency of PL researchers of producing languages that were too abstracting and useless, but thinking that such languages were perfect. He also blathered on (in his own characteristic style; i.e. out of total ignorance) about the perils of quantifying history and anthropology and bullshit like that. But then he goes and creates this poo poo.
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Apr 14, 2016 05:11
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McGlockenshire posted:This doesn't mean that there haven't been machines tailored to specific languages / language types before, only that general purpose computers don't think like functional programmers. And honestly, Lisp Machines aren't that hardware-tailored to Lisp. The MIT CADR and TI Explorer macroinstruction sets are actually relatively conventional, it wasn't until the Symbolics 3600 architecture that things started to really get exotic with 40-bit tagged data paths and things like that. I say macroinstruction set because these were CPUs with writable microcode, which was regularly updated to modify the instruction set for things like GC support. I only claimed they were relatively conventional… If you want to peek at the implementation of a Lisp-oriented CPU, take a look at this Verilog Lisp microcontroller implementation.
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Apr 14, 2016 07:44
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Fututor Magnus posted:Curtis's goal is to have a platform that on run on any modern machine, so it's a loving wonder why he got any VC funding for Urbit. Peter Thiel. Who is using his money the way a nerd billionaire might be expected to, i.e. a million here, a million there on whatever whacky BS takes his fancy (MIRI, Tlon). Functional programmers do have a tendency to try to reinvent the world ground-up, but that's because you need to do that to do FP really. So it will attract people who think like that at all. OTOH it's also true that nerds tend this way anyway. (Sandifer's book addresses the deficiencies of the sort of philosophical work that attempts to construct a comprehensive edifice from first principles, e.g. The Sequences, Unqualified Reservations, etc.) [Let us stress once more that most of the FP world thinks LambdaConf is on loving crack, particularly after that frankly bizarre SJ Time Cube post, and turn out to be quite SJ-friendly when the question actually comes up as in this case.] This nerd tendency is the real point of commonality between LessWrong and neoreaction. There was a nice Tumblr thread on this subject, wherein veronicastraszh provided a cultural background analysis that I think hits the nail on the head. The nerd fixation on the idea that there is one right answer, even when there clearly isn't. (This is why they have an anaphylactic reaction to the very idea of postmodernism.) Sandifer also outlines his minor nerd credentials (STEM background, STEM parents, only diverted to majoring in English by good teachers). He's an English major, but he would be quite capable of a nerd career were it financially necessary. (That's pretty much the direction I went, making no money as a music journalist and contemplating with a shudder an underpaid career in nonprofits before remembering I was good at these computer things and started getting paid by dumptruck.) divabot has a new favorite as of 11:47 on Apr 14, 2016 |
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Apr 14, 2016 11:29
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These people make fun of armchair philosophy, but most of the nonsense on Less Wrong and related places represents the worst excesses of attempted rational thought unmoored from any real relation to everyday life or rigorous justification. It's all the academy of Lagado from Gulliver's Travels and they don't notice it because they've carefully internalized the idea that all those criticisms about angels dancing on the heads of pins and playing word games only ever applies to outgroup members.
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Apr 14, 2016 12:34
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Asymmetrikon posted:Frankly, I can't think of a clique in programming/CS that doesn't have the whole 'hammer -> everything nail' problem (OO programmers, FP programmers, kernel developers, OTP people, Pythonistas, you name it.) It might be just that stratification between different 'types' of programmer that's the cause. Let me tell you about why functional programmers are weird and dumb and why me and my javas are the best 
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Apr 14, 2016 13:03
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Asymmetrikon posted:Frankly, I can't think of a clique in programming/CS that doesn't have the whole 'hammer -> everything nail' problem (OO programmers, FP programmers, kernel developers, OTP people, Pythonistas, you name it.) It might be just that stratification between different 'types' of programmer that's the cause. Are you guys talking about the engineering fallacy? Because as a Sociology student I have like five books about unnecessary automation you could dig.
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Apr 14, 2016 14:48
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divabot posted:Peter Thiel. Who is using his money the way a nerd billionaire might be expected to, i.e. a million here, a million there on whatever whacky BS takes his fancy (MIRI, Tlon). Don't forget Thiel is a pretty right-wing libertarian, and has been involved with things like that idea to park a boat full of cheap foreign programmers in international waters near SF to provide (Read the goonfic collection "In Golden Waters" if you haven't.)
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Apr 14, 2016 17:36
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eschaton posted:Don't forget Thiel is a pretty right-wing libertarian, and has been involved with things like that idea to park a boat full of cheap foreign programmers in international waters near SF to provide Thiel certainly has enough money to do that, what happened to make him not?
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Apr 14, 2016 17:37
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:Thiel certainly has enough money to do that, what happened to make him not? He's not going to put up all the money, that would require commitment. He just threw a token amount at the project like he does with everything else.
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Apr 14, 2016 17:50
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Thiel also hates democracy for giving a voice to women and blacks So basically par for the course for movement lolbertatians
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Apr 14, 2016 19:37
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:Thiel also hates democracy for giving a voice to women and blacks Again, can someone remind me of the difference between libertarians and feudalism?
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Apr 14, 2016 21:56
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Twerkteam Pizza posted:Again, can someone remind me of the difference between libertarians and feudalism? Fewer equine biker gangs.
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Apr 14, 2016 21:58
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Twerkteam Pizza posted:Again, can someone remind me of the difference between libertarians and feudalism? Noblesse Oblige. In theory the feudal lords had responsibilities to the serfs and it was meant to be a relationship that benefited both parties. Libertarians fundamentally don't believe in anything but contractual obligations.
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Apr 14, 2016 22:07
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Twerkteam Pizza posted:Again, can someone remind me of the difference between libertarians and feudalism? Like yeah it wasn't MUCH, but you could expect, as your typical serf in a typical manor, to get a couple meat dinners off your boss per year, plus sundry charity if you got hit by a disaster of some kind, probably. The king would occasionally let you touch him to cure your scrofula.
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Apr 14, 2016 22:08
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Libertarian ideology: worse than feudalism
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Apr 14, 2016 22:21
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McGlockenshire posted:Yeah, sorry, drunkposting a bit and jumped the gun on that thought. It's an observation in similarity of behavior between thought patterns that lead to creationist engineers and personal observations I've made of FP types that begin applying similar thinking to places where it doesn't belong, including the linked materials. It's anecdote and observation, nothing else. I think you're looking in the wrong places, really. I did functional programming at Uni and it was full of math dorks but very much sensible people. Hence why more people have signed that anti-LambdaConf list than have donated to Fahrenheit 1488 or w/e that dumb funding group is called. Please don't let shitsticks like Yarvin colour your view!
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Apr 14, 2016 22:26
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https://twitter.com/rooshv/status/689285148370726913
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Apr 14, 2016 22:30
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Tesseraction posted:I think you're looking in the wrong places, really. I did functional programming at Uni and it was full of math dorks but very much sensible people. Hence why more people have signed that anti-LambdaConf list than have donated to Fahrenheit 1488 or w/e that dumb funding group is called.  When I think FP I think of people like Rich Hickey or Brian Beckman, not Yarvin. It's only to LambdaConf's detriment that they're being funded by a group that has gently caress-all to do with software and everything to do with defending Moldbug.
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Apr 14, 2016 22:38
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THAT'S NOT WHAT A DIALECTIC IS  gently caress's sake DoucheV you can't even make fun of a concept right.
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Apr 14, 2016 22:41
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I am constantly amazed at how Roosh manages to dress himself in the morning. At least his rant about the intolerable tyranny of having to wipe his rear end makes sense with the level of intelligence he displays.
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Apr 14, 2016 22:42
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The Vosgian Beast posted:I am constantly amazed at how Roosh manages to dress himself in the morning. Guess those red pills have mental deterioration as a side-effect.
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Apr 14, 2016 22:47
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Twerkteam Pizza posted:Again, can someone remind me of the difference between libertarians and feudalism? Kings had to deal with the real world consequences of feudalism and wanted to hold on to their power and not die.
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Apr 14, 2016 22:50
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Yeah, kings had to put up or shut up (shutting up by being executed by neighboring feudal lords). What I think a lot of libertarians want is a system where the decentralized autonomous law enforcement organization takes care of all the tyranny for them so they can just freely enjoy the fruits of property forever, including the fruits of knowing this property is THEIRS, not someone else's. This means, of course, that the DROs or whatever would become the kings.
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Apr 14, 2016 22:59
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It is hilarious how many Libertarians don't realize the guys with the guns who 'enforce' the contracts would just become the government.
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Apr 14, 2016 23:05
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Night10194 posted:It is hilarious how many Libertarians don't realize the guys with the guns who 'enforce' the contracts would just become the government. No, but, see, it's voluntary. And furthermore *shits out 80,000 more words*
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Apr 14, 2016 23:09
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Night10194 posted:It is hilarious how many Libertarians don't realize the guys with the guns who 'enforce' the contracts would just become the government. I mean they generally consider that to be the government's sole and single purpose, in most cases they don't want no government whatsoever, they only want a government that does nothing but enforce contracts and property rights.
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Apr 14, 2016 23:47
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:I mean they generally consider that to be the government's sole and single purpose, in most cases they don't want no government whatsoever, they only want a government that does nothing but enforce contracts and property rights. Now to be fair, it would probably not instantly collapse into mayhem, but at some point they'd become kings - because why should you keep taking orders from the boss when you're the one with the gun and there's no competition?
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Apr 14, 2016 23:59
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Tesseraction posted:THAT'S NOT WHAT A DIALECTIC IS https://www.google.com/search?q=problem+reaction+solution
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Apr 15, 2016 01:09
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Ahaha of course David Icke is the source. Powerful intellects with these lads.
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Apr 15, 2016 01:14
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Tesseraction posted:Fahrenheit 1488 
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Apr 15, 2016 08:15
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Night10194 posted:It is hilarious how many Libertarians don't realize the guys with the guns who 'enforce' the contracts would just become the government. sounds like more of an Objectivist thing. Cumslut1895 has a new favorite as of 09:47 on Apr 15, 2016 |
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Apr 15, 2016 09:44
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I found I'd been given a link to a LessWrong sequence, Evaporative Cooling of Group Beliefs. It has a lot of tortured metaphors, but it also has this:Evaporative Cooling of Group Beliefs posted:It's the articulate trolls that you should be wary of ejecting, on this theory—they serve the hidden function of legitimizing less extreme disagreements. But you should not have so many articulate trolls that they begin arguing with each other, or begin to dominate conversations. If you have one person around who is the famous Guy Who Disagrees With Everything, anyone with a more reasonable, more moderate disagreement won't look like the sole nail sticking out. Basically, it's a good explanation for why we can't get rid of Cingulate.
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Apr 16, 2016 05:40
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