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Sloober posted:TBH a lot of guns don't feel like they're really all that great - anything out of a brownchest is really nothing more than your basic pistol with ammo This actually makes me wonder why there aren't alternate not fantastic but maybe a little better/different infinite ammo guns to find to replace the starting ones. That seems like it could fix quite a few issues without altering the balance too much. e: also what's with this game using actual gun manufacturer names? is that allowed now? i seem to remember Counter-Strike going from real names to fake a while back but then there was some court case where it turns out those things aren't protected and now there are real names again Yodzilla fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Apr 14, 2016 |
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Apr 14, 2016 15:53
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Sloober posted:Corsair is a shittier version of the cannonbowler. It's not... terrible, in small cramped rooms Brown chests can drop some really good actives though. Double vision and gun friendship can drop from floor 1 browns and are both gamechangers.
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Apr 14, 2016 15:57
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I'm only happy to get passives. It means the starter pistol I'm using the majority of the time actually improves 
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Apr 14, 2016 16:01
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I know I keep saying this, but infinite keys flat out saves this game from its own mistakes. I've gone from having the same mixed feelings that people rightly keep bringing up to having an absolute blast every single run, consistently. More fun weapons consistently, more items consistently, which also means fun synergies more consistently, instead of spending 60% of your money on keys you can buy more ammo and weapons more consistently, which then means your gun and ammo situation more consistently keeps up with enemy scaling so you don't feel like enemies are as spongy any more, more consistency means you can be confident to just go ahead and use new guns as they drop and get away from plinking at things with the starter pistol basically straight away. It's just great.
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Apr 14, 2016 16:01
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Brown chests can also drop some really good passives, like Oiled cylinder, Hip holster and ammo belt.
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Apr 14, 2016 16:01
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Sloober posted:Corsair is a shittier version of the cannonbowler. It's not... terrible, in small cramped rooms brown chests have some very good guns. the machine pistol and regular shotgun in particular are better than most of the tier two guns. all the rest, even the derringer, still have higher dps than the starting weapons i always open a chest on the first floor, even if it has to be brown, and i start using ammo immediately. running out of ammo makes ammo drops more useful, and it hardly matters anyway since guns and ammo will be coming in much faster than they're spent
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Apr 14, 2016 16:08
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I would be happier with more enemies and less health IMO at lower levels And in the beginning upping the health slightly of all mobs and increasing drop rates
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Apr 14, 2016 16:13
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Also give me the ability for one fun buck to have a random gun at the start at the cost of a health penalty
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Apr 14, 2016 16:14
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The Alien Sidearm is the pauper's Mega Arm, but like the Mega Arm, it is also efficient and good
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Apr 14, 2016 16:17
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lazorexplosion posted:I know I keep saying this, but infinite keys flat out saves this game from its own mistakes. Infinite keys is just cruddy though. Resources provide a great sense of player choice and agency. It's just this game isn't playing into that choice well. Let's consider Binding of Isaac's keys. They're used for lots of things. Stores, item rooms, double key rooms, golden chests. You're guaranteed to encounter multiple of these on each floor. Keys are often in short or moderate supply, especially on hard mode, so I reliably access some of these things, but I often have to think about what I do. The obvious choice is using a key on an item room, sure. But if I have a lot of money, I might gamble on opening the item shop- it will probably have an item I can buy as well as a key, that I can then use on the item room. Or maybe the item room looks like it's next to a secret room, so picking up a bomb from the shop also gets me access. Golden chest? Probably not a good gamble if you only have 1 key, but if you have an item that doubles loot drops or increases luck it might be a bit more tempting- you'll probably get a key or an item from the chest. Secret double locked room? Big investment. It might give me a 4pip die and I get to repeat the floor for even more loot, but I could lose all my keys only to open a room with more golden chests. Am I near the beginning or end of the floor? Beginning or end of the game? And then, of course, there are some great items that remove your worry of keys altogether by giving you a tonne of them, upping your drop rates, or giving you an item that unlocks doors. In each case, my situation determines whether it's a good idea to use the key or not. There is a cost and a benefit to each action and the costs and benefits are weighted differently each time. In Enter the Gungeon, keys are used (mostly) for 1 normal gameplay purpose- opening locked chests. And it often does not give you many to begin with, so there's little strategy beyond 'use the key on your preferred color chest and HOPE it's something good'. And that's going to basically always be my strategy. Even if I want to go to the Oubliette, it doesn't really feel like a choice because it's just a 2 key barrier of entry rather than an organic gameplay mechanic that pops up throughout the game. There's not much choice here, except in the case you have 1 key with two unopened chests on a floor. Edit: Note I'm not saying Gungeon should be more like Binding of Isaac. If I wanted that I'd play Binding of Isaac. I'm just using it to contrast similar mechanics in both games, and how one is fun and adds to the experience where the other is a drag. PoizenJam fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Apr 14, 2016 |
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Apr 14, 2016 16:26
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JVNO posted:In Enter the Gungeon, keys are used (mostly) for 1 normal gameplay purpose- opening locked chests. And it often does not give you many to begin with, so there's little strategy beyond 'use the key on your preferred color chest and HOPE it's something good'. And that's going to basically always be my strategy. Even if I want to go to the Oubliette, it doesn't really feel like a choice because it's just a 2 key barrier of entry rather than an organic gameplay mechanic that pops up throughout the game. There's not much choice here, except in the case you have 1 key with two unopened chests on a floor. Eh, there are some more subtle choices, but you're mostly right. If there is chest but I don't have any keys, I can choose to buy one from the shop to get whatever is in the chest before the boss, or I can fight the boss without the benefit of the chest, in hopes that the boss drops a key so I won't have to spend money on one. I'm sure there are few more examples of this if you're trying to min-max. But I'd agree that the choices are more plentiful in Isaac.
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Apr 14, 2016 16:39
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The_North posted:or I can fight the boss without the benefit of the chest Oh joy, yet another mechanic encouraging me to use my starting pistol instead of awesome guns. But honestly, you make some good points. I was a bit unfavourable in my analysis but I stand by the conclusion. Keys don't really enhance the fun of the game for me, they're a frustrating mechanic to overcome.
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Apr 14, 2016 16:43
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 Why 
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Apr 14, 2016 16:48
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Klaus Kinski posted:Brown chests can drop some really good actives though. Double vision and gun friendship can drop from floor 1 browns and are both gamechangers. I was specifically talking about the guns; there is a lot of brown level ones that are really not any better than your pistol. lowercase r and peashooter being the absolute worst offenders. The fact that passives and actives are in many cases more exciting and useful than a lot of guns is its own problem. I would be thrilled to get a bunch of passives and maybe a gun because at least the passives will affect your basic pistol. Many of my memorable runs relied on passives more than any particularly great gun
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Apr 14, 2016 16:54
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Btw, the devs have confirmed that if you don't find a key on a floor before you reach the shop, it's guaranteed to have one on sale (except if the shop is locked, which I would be fine with them removing), so you should always be able to open at least one chest per floor. Honestly, the game is really generous with the amount of chests and bonus rooms it throws at you, which is why you have the keys to force you to make some decisions. A run with infinite keys is very easy.
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Apr 14, 2016 16:55
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i think a good compromise would be making broken chest rewards much better, like guaranteeing that shooting a chest will drop an item from the next lower tier rather than almost always exploding or dropping junk. that way you would have a reason to want to keep a key even when you have a chance to use it on the off chance that you'll find a better tier chest soon. i found a red muncher once that ate 9 of my guns without any sign of slowing down. i wonder if i was being punked or if there was some super max tier weapon i could have gotten if i had just thrown the rest of my crap in there
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Apr 14, 2016 16:56
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Just picked up this game, I've been having fun. How do you get past doors with a big lock on them? I have a key and everything, but no dice. Is there something I"m missing?
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Apr 14, 2016 16:59
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you've probably found a jail cell, which requires a special yellow key to open. If you haven't found the yellow key by the time you reach the boss of the floor, the boss is guaranteed to drop the yellow key.
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Apr 14, 2016 17:01
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Tried to do the next step of the floor 3 elevator last night. Ended floor 3 with all 4 keys needed but only 162 money out of the 180 needed  Was pretty fun run though, had three table-flipping powers: blank, rocket, and stun. Rooms with a bunch of tables in them were just ridiculous nonsense as I continuously stunned and blew everyone in the room up.
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Apr 14, 2016 17:02
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The Lord of Hats posted:Just picked up this game, I've been having fun. How do you get past doors with a big lock on them? I have a key and everything, but no dice. Is there something I"m missing? The golden locks need a special golden key that's guaranteed to be somewhere on the level, but it might drop from the boss. The silver locks on doors just take regular keys. Press E in front of them.
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Apr 14, 2016 17:02
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how many good players use m + kb? i'm thinking about trying it but comfy couch controller gaming owns.
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Apr 14, 2016 17:04
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Thom and the Heads posted:how many good players use m + kb? i'm thinking about trying it but comfy couch controller gaming owns. the aim assist in this game is so good that there is absolutely no reason to play kb + m if you own a controller
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Apr 14, 2016 17:05
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DolphinCop posted:the aim assist in this game is so good that there is absolutely no reason to play kb + m if you own a controller To elaborate on this, personally I find that while mouse aiming has the potential to be more accurate, the auto-aim is excellent so I rarely find myself missing. Meanwhile, precision movement with an analog stick is a lot better for dodging (for me anyways) than the four-directional WASD. Since a lot of this game comes down to avoiding damage through precise dodgerolling, I'd rather miss a couple bullets and have the movement.
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Apr 14, 2016 17:25
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I'd say controller is easier, but M&K is more fun for me, the whole push a stick in the general direction and hope autoaim takes care of it style of aiming feels vague and crappy. e: also the bloodied scarf would suck with a controller, instead of being gloriously good. lazorexplosion fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Apr 14, 2016 |
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Apr 14, 2016 17:30
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Is there something special you need to do to get the Dungeon Goblin to show up again? I've knocked their helmet off twice and they aren't showing up on any subsequent runs. Is it just really bad luck with RNG or is there something else you need to do to trigger it?
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Apr 14, 2016 17:42
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Last night I had the most crazy over the top powerful run I've seen, due to a rainbow chest on floor 1. I'm pretty sure I had a Jammed Dragun, but I honestly don't know, because I could barely see it. Got Lead God that run. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Da1FM1AJfI8 Black hole gun and BSG + holster + other synergy stuff meant I pretty much cleared the whole game without getting hit.
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Apr 14, 2016 17:46
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Was reading the wiki earlier and noted that if you collect all the pieces of the gunknight armor, your appearance changes and you get instant reload with all of your guns. I didn't think it was actually reasonably possible to get all of them in a single run, but I just did, so perhaps the more pieces you have, the more likely the game is to spawn one of the remaining pieces.
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Apr 14, 2016 17:52
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Is the hunter's dog supposed to be completely worthless? I died somewhere on floor three and never once had it dig anything up for me even after fully clearing the first two floors. I don't see how the hunter could possibly be as good as the other classes with such a finicky perk. Even if they don't want you getting free health or shields very often, it could at least dig up a little bit of money so you feel like you aren't gimping yourself by turning down free molotovs or lock picks.
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Apr 14, 2016 18:14
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I liked the hunter for awhile and it is fun when your dog gets you a lot of stuff, but once I started paying attention to it I was not happy when it went for a floor and a half without getting a single item. I'm increasingly feeling like marine is a much better character. To some extent the dog lets you offset the RNG of getting items, but it only does that by adding another layer of RNG on top of that. Game needs more control behind its RNG, you don't just throw a percentage out there and rely on that alone to give the player all of their resources that are necessary to survive (or in this game's case, to keep it from becoming a boring slog). There needs to be guaranteed ways to get things. Almost everything that is "guaranteed" in gungeon (the shop key thing, the number of chests on a floor, etc) is still gated behind resources that are not guaranteed. Then your chance for an item in a room caps out at 80% so you aren't even guaranteed one then. For a counterexample nuclear throne has guaranteed weapon and ammo chests on every level, weapons have ammo in them, your chance for ammo and health from enemies increases if you are low, and there are so many enemies that there's virtually no way not to get enough to use some weapon or other. In 200 hours of nuclear throne and god only knows how many runs, I can think of maybe 4 times where I actually had no ammo left, and in those cases I had plenty of opportunities to switch to more ammo-efficient weapons, so it was my fault to some extent.
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Apr 14, 2016 18:25
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Pig is the best follower. So has nobody else in the thread got to experience the magic that is GUNther? You need to beat the sorceress mode to unlock it, but it's the best gun in the game bar none.
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Apr 14, 2016 18:31
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Speaking of RNG, is the Hegemony Carbine totally worthless, or did I just somehow manage to kill enough enemies to nearly empty it twice without a single Credit dropping?
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Apr 14, 2016 18:32
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Justin_Brett posted:Speaking of RNG, is the Hegemony Carbine totally worthless, or did I just somehow manage to kill enough enemies to nearly empty it twice without a single Credit dropping? It's your pistol with a larger clip and slightly faster shooting. It really isn't that good, like i mentioned there's a lot of guns that are almost the same as your starting gun.
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Apr 14, 2016 18:39
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Zark the Damned posted:Is there something special you need to do to get the Dungeon Goblin to show up again? I've knocked their helmet off twice and they aren't showing up on any subsequent runs. Is it just really bad luck with RNG or is there something else you need to do to trigger it? 99% sure it's just RNG. You do need to go deeper each time though lazorexplosion fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Apr 14, 2016 |
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Apr 14, 2016 18:43
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DolphinCop posted:i found a red muncher once that ate 9 of my guns without any sign of slowing down. i wonder if i was being punked or if there was some super max tier weapon i could have gotten if i had just thrown the rest of my crap in there I can't remember the break point but when the Evil Muncher is satisfied it gives you This gun . It fires out little blue gunslinger guys that shoot at things. Does a pretty good amount of damage. FrickenMoron posted:So has nobody else in the thread got to experience the magic that is GUNther? You need to beat the sorceress mode to unlock it, but it's the best gun in the game bar none. Tell the bloody game to drop it for me and I will. I have had it unlocked quite a few runs ago. You know, I am not sure why they have the Buster Arm and the Heroine do the exact same things but I absolutely love getting them. That charged shot is fantastic.
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Apr 14, 2016 18:49
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Im pretty sure Gunther is in the highest tier as far as guns go dropwise, so its quite rare. I think last time I got it from perfecting level 3.
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Apr 14, 2016 19:21
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Seriously I've seen the Beholdster once in 3 days. I've had like 50 runs since I got the quest to kill it and almost all of them were Gorgun and a few were Ammoncanda. I've started screenshoting every time I get to the second floor boss just to keep track of how much the game hates me. I've almost got the fourth floor elevator done though so that's cool.
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Apr 14, 2016 19:43
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IronicDongz posted:No one in this thread has been doing that. I've been reading too much Steam forums. Besides, my point isn't that there should or shouldn't be an easy mode. It doesn't bother me, I don't have to use it, more people will be able to enjoy the game. But at the same time it feels as if I'm hearing: "It's the game's fault I'm running into bullets". At some point the game has to present some kind of challenge or it turns into a half-hour long YouTube video.
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Apr 14, 2016 20:23
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MisterFuzzles posted:I can't remember the break point but when the Evil Muncher is satisfied it gives you This gun . It fires out little blue gunslinger guys that shoot at things. Does a pretty good amount of damage. The plasma pistol also does the same thing but worse because it takes longer to charge and I think does less damage.
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Apr 14, 2016 20:30
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https://twitter.com/DodgeRollGames/status/593625936131653632 Heh.
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Apr 14, 2016 20:34
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I think that's a side effect of all Unity 2D stuff, since they just do 3D with basically no 3rd axis.
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Apr 14, 2016 20:51
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