|
Irony Be My Shield posted:Making cake for your son is actually a nice thing to do, though. John and Rose were just projecting ill-will onto their guardians. I actually really liked that Dave's situation turned out to be different to Rose and John's, it differentiated him as a character. in a bad way, yes
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 01:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 00:51 |
|
|
Yeah, Dad fighting John is a stylised representation of a father baking a son a dozen cakes for his birthday. Bro fighting Dave is a stylised representation of a brother putting his younger brother through gruelling, physically punishing ninja training and then hurling him down the stairs. They're both silly concepts, but one is more benevolent than the other.Tunicate posted:As opposed to Jade, who taxidermied her father, or John who uh... whatever happened with his dead dad? When Grimdark Rose and Jack fight, Rose blows up the top of the tower where the bodies are, and I think that's the last we see of them. But this is very abstracted - whereas in the case of Dave we get a single long scene devoted to him hanging out with his brother's body, where he does obliquely talk about his emotions, and they're definitely not straightforward sadness at a loved one's passing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 01:13
|
|
|
Freak Futanari posted:good night buddy... and good luck  here u go roll 1d20 3 times and now i can call you all... a bunch of MURDEROUS CHAFE-GLANDS
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 01:25
|
|
|
A good poster posted:She's seen after Collide here, where she tends to former-Bec-Noir Jack's severed arm. I still can't believe ♠ Slick is dead.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 01:26
|
|
|
Arsenic Lupin posted:I still can't believe ♠ Slick is dead. i can't believe the comic's main antagonist for nearly half it's existence got a pass e: you TWITCHING MUCUS CLOT
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 01:26
|
|
|
Just realized something about the ending: given some close reading, just about every single "How did this happen?" loose end is tied up (other than really minor/forgotten ones like "who flipped the frog switch?"), but just about every single "What happens next?" loose end is left open (barring some small concessions such as Can Town). This is because the What Happens Next stuff is literally outside of the narrative, so we don't get to see it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 01:33
|
|
|
WAR FOOT posted:
thats some pretty good work
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 01:36
|
|
|
OK so it took way longer than I expected and it was almost certainly not the best use of my time, but I re-read from Game Over and am pretty much convinced now that it is the case that Game Over to the retcon was the real climax. In between the retcon and the end, all the conversations do a lot of work in "wrapping up" the characters in the ways I wanted the ending to but basically forgot had already happened because it had been a few months since then. In that light Collide was a ton of fun and brought back what made early Homestuck fun. (Also, like, for real: Jack Noir, disarmed, reverted, utterly defeated... never thought I'd live to see the day. Yeah, he needed to get got, but I'll take it as Jade's good example stepping down PM's drive from "kill" to merely "humiliate.") Act 7 was less jarring although... I still wish there was more to it. I feel like there needs to be a bit more closure. Not even some huge epic thing. Just something to show what really happened in the masterpiece (pretty much still do not believe that Caliborn's rendition of events is accurate, he was missing something), a bit of a "where are they now," I dunno. I'm going to sign onto "they escaped the story, we don't get to see their lives afterward" as being probably correct and making sense but. Eh. I feel better about it now but it still seems incomplete in some way. But uh if you have several hours of free time you want to devote to it, it's pretty rewarding. Act 6 overall was a lot less dense than 1-5 in terms of quality, there was a bunch of tedious bullshit but there was a lot of solid gold and the conversations between Game Over and Collide were great.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 01:37
|
|
|
Izzhov posted:Just realized something about the ending: given some close reading, just about every single "How did this happen?" loose end is tied up (other than really minor/forgotten ones like "who flipped the frog switch?"), but just about every single "What happens next?" loose end is left open (barring some small concessions such as Can Town). This is because the What Happens Next stuff is literally outside of the narrative, so we don't get to see it. I still think there's a big mystery about if Caliborn's masterpiece is canon, and if so, under what circumstances does it happen.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 01:50
|
|
|
mightygerm posted:I still think there's a big mystery about if Caliborn's masterpiece is canon, and if so, under what circumstances does it happen. Other people posted bits and pieces of the answer to this one upthread, but I may as well compile the evidence into a single post. The short answer is that yes, it's canon, it happens a long time in the future, long after everyone's moved to the new universe and the troll characters have died (of old age or otherwise), John warps the 8 kids to fight Caliborn. The evidence: 1) First, we need to address how all of the non-kid stuff got there. We see Caliborn get his eyes/immortality powers in Act 7. Just about everything else (namely: ARquiusprite, Gamzee, the Ring of Void) got there by being sucked into Union Jack's head during Collide. 2) Next, what's the evidence that the kids going to fight Caliborn are post-new-universe? The proof is in this quote: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/ACT6ACT6.php?s=6&p=009312 posted:IT TAKES PLACE IN A FUTURE MOMENT. LONG BEYOND WHEN WE, YOU, OR I HAVE ANY BUSINESS SEEING WHAT HAPPENS. As I established earlier, Homestuck ends with the main characters literally leaving the narrative as they enter their new universe. So, the only point in time that makes sense as "LONG BEYOND WHEN WE, YOU, OR I HAVE ANY BUSINESS SEEING WHAT HAPPENS" is after they enter the new universe. For further evidence, you can also check out this quote: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/ACT6ACT6.php?s=6&p=009320 posted:I CAN TELL THEY ARE PSYCHED ABOUT THIS. LIKE THEY HAVE BEEN PLANNING IT, AND BIDING THEIR TIME, AND NOW THEY THINK THEY ARE STRONG ENOUGH TO OVERTAKE ME This fits nicely with the idea that, from the kids' point of view, this attack has been a long time coming. Likely long enough that the mortal troll characters have died, which explains why they aren't there for the fight.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 02:04
|
|
|
There is still the "what is their actual motive, here" issue.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 02:07
|
|
|
beating up a green nerd
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 02:08
|
|
|
"They left the narrative" is a poor excuse for not showing things, because they cannot, by nature of their status as characters, leave the narrative. No matter how many "retcon" powers John gets.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 02:09
|
|
|
I like to think that Roxy made God Tier slabs for Terezi, Karkat and Kanaya so that the kids didn't have to watch them wither and die. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 02:09
|
|
|
There are multiple characters who just magically know the correct thing to do. It could be as straight-forward as "Rose realized they would need to defeat this rear end in a top hat at some point to prevent him from destroying the universe".
Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Apr 15, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 02:09
|
|
|
WAR FOOT posted:I like to think that Roxy made God Tier slabs for Terezi, Karkat and Kanaya so that the kids didn't have to watch them wither and die. I like to think they all died except Roxy and John
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 02:10
|
|
|
GeneX posted:I like to think they all died except Roxy and John gently caress you buddy Terezi is great
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 02:11
|
|
|
wait, i had something for this
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 02:12
|
|
|
GeneX posted:"They left the narrative" is a poor excuse for not showing things, because they cannot, by nature of their status as characters, leave the narrative. No matter how many "retcon" powers John gets. I dunno, Homestuck's been consistently meta enough that it can pull it off.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 02:12
|
|
|
GeneX posted:I like to think they all died except Roxy and John you FESTERING DOUCHEPOD
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 02:12
|
|
|
GunnerJ posted:There is still the "what is their actual motive, here" issue. I said that all the "How did this happen" threads were tied up, not the "Why did this happen" threads.  There's plenty of possible explanations though. For example: Irony Be My Shield posted:They are multiple characters who just magically know the correct thing to do. It could be as straight-forward as "Rose realized they would need to defeat this rear end in a top hat at some point to prevent him from destroying the universe". Here's another possible way it could have played out: After they enter their universe, someone brings up the fact that they never beat up LE, someone else reminds them Vriska was on the case, they shrug and forget about it and live happy lives for hundreds or thousands of years. After awhile they get super fuckin bored with immortality, so someone suggests they go beat up Caliborn.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 02:15
|
|
|
I guess it's cute if the Plothole not only leads to LE's eventual demise but also is what gave the kids the time to plan the attack on Caliborn in the first place.
Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Apr 15, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 02:16
|
|
|
Izzhov posted:I said that all the "How did this happen" threads were tied up, not the "Why did this happen" threads. Fair enough re: "how, not why," but these motives are just too... handwavey for something that important. eta: what am I saying, this is Homestuck.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 02:18
|
|
|
 I gotta say, Act 7 is growing on me for the same reason the Red Wedding did
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 02:40
|
|
|
I think all the worrying about figuring out the proper timeline and motives to explain how Caliborn's Masterpiece can fit neatly into the plot speaks to one of the most satisfying aspects of the "escaping the narrative" theory for what the ending meant. I like to interpret it that them exiting the story means that they don't have to worry about that sort of thing. Sure they still need to show up for Caliborn's path to becoming LE to be fulfilled, but hey, gently caress Caliborn, that's his problem, he can rig causality his own drat self and have his pointless victory as alpha and omega of his lonely prison. edit: when many of the story's (in the first half at least before things turned into such a mess) are about trying to find meaning when everything's predetermined, refusing to fill in a hole the timeline of the causality ruling villain only seems appropriate. Fantasy Tripe fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Apr 15, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 02:42
|
|
|
GeneX posted:No gently caress it's abuse, if it was real I agree that Dave's situation is so absurd that 180ing into a drama is odd, and tonally inconsistent. But not necessarily a bad thing, funny stories that end up rolling out a dark spin in the latter half are some of my favorite types of stories. I don't think Strider's emo mid-teens retrospective takes away from how funny Act 3/Act 4 were. Act 6 did some realistic teen drama though, through and through, for almost everyone. Consider the fact that Bro was looking Lord English eye-to-eye on the daily and a more sinister take on his character makes sense for the puzzle-half of this comic. The obsession with Saw and all that kinda adds up if you consider a lovely version of Jigsaw is looking back at you all the time.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 02:43
|
|
|
I have a theory about Caliborn's masterpiece, but the only way it works is if there's much more left to the story so it's probably just wishful thinking: The kids leave the narrative, except for Terezi who stays behind to have her own quest for Vriska or whatever. During Terezi's quest she accidentally causes something to go wrong somewhere and Caliborn ends up in Calliope's body. That's how he gets the ring of void, it's the same ring as the ring of life as many people have suspected. Caliborn, still in Calliope's body, returns to the old narrative and the kids follow him. That's when the battle we saw happened, and that's why it was so far away that he shouldn't be able to see it: It doesn't happen in Homestuck, it happens in the sequel to Homestuck: Terezi and her Sprite pal's excellent adventure (placeholder name).
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 02:50
|
|
|
WAR FOOT posted:a bunch of MURDEROUS CHAFE-GLANDS That's amazing, you dancing pity flap.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 02:57
|
|
|
I think Caliborn's masterpiece doesn't happen anymore because of the powers of the retcon juju
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 03:04
|
|
|
I think this Tumblr post is genius and actually explains the ending perfectly. http://not-terezi-pyrope.tumblr.com/post/142820056331/how-lord-englishs-defeat-was-achieved
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 03:11
|
|
|
Arsenic Lupin posted:I think this Tumblr post is genius and actually explains the ending perfectly. http://not-terezi-pyrope.tumblr.com/post/142820056331/how-lord-englishs-defeat-was-achieved Hey so what ever happened to that panel that one person saw ahead of time? Does anyone even remember who it was who saw it so I can at least hit the question mark under their avatar?
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 03:18
|
|
|
Hm. Put it that way yeah it does make sense. But I was just boggling at the anime shennanigans too much. Also Truman Show got there first.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 03:19
|
|
|
SynthOrange posted:Hm. Put it that way yeah it does make sense. MSPaint Adventures - Homestuck Edition: It Was A Jim Carrey Movie All Along
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 03:24
|
|
|
Arsenic Lupin posted:I think this Tumblr post is genius and actually explains the ending perfectly. http://not-terezi-pyrope.tumblr.com/post/142820056331/how-lord-englishs-defeat-was-achieved see, thats a good theory and all, but it just. doesnt make the ending feel any better, or more satisfying... the damage is done to me already, emotionally speaking,
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 03:26
|
|
|
WAR FOOT posted:
"snide chute huffer" isn't on the list, this is literally unusable
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 03:27
|
|
|
Yeah if that's the case, there's a huge difference between what the author intended and what the author made.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 03:27
|
|
|
SynthOrange posted:Yeah if that's the case, there's a huge difference between what the author intended and what the author made. Care to elaborate?
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 03:30
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 03:32
|
|
|
DaveKap posted:If this is true then that means we should expect the entire Epilogue to be about Caliborn. Awesome. nah cause the epilogue isnt part of the story of homestuck
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 03:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 00:51 |
|
|
Ursine Catastrophe posted:"snide chute huffer" isn't on the list, this is literally unusable that's the beauty of the narrative being ours now, you can make your own insult chart, you GOBBLING NOOK PASSAGE.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 03:33
|
|