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Mecha Gojira posted:Two Weapon Opening. Melegaunt's Darkblade. Crit Like You Mean It. Slayer, Draeven Marauder, Rending Gouge, Rain of Blows, Boots of the Mighty Charge, Horned Helm, Deadly Axe, Surprising Charge. Crit like you mean it at level 12. That's critting like you mean it...
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Apr 13, 2016 20:41
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Staves are 2 handed weapons, but 1 handed implements. Is it possible to hold one in your offhand, and attack with an arcane weapon power, like Eldritch Strike, and get dual implement spellcaster bonus damage to it? Dual Implement Spellcaster says it works for any arcane attack power and you're holding an implement in each hand. Same question as above but now say you DONT have implement proficiency in the weapon. Follow up question as well. Does Dual Implement Spellcaster even work for arcane weapon powers? Yukari fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Apr 14, 2016 |
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Apr 14, 2016 19:13
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Yukari posted:Staves are 2 handed weapons, but 1 handed implements. Is it possible to hold one in your offhand, and attack with an arcane weapon power, like Eldritch Strike, and get dual implement spellcaster bonus damage to it? Dual Implement Spellcaster says it works for any arcane attack power and you're holding an implement in each hand. Same question as above but now say you DONT have implement proficiency in the weapon. I can't remember the wording, can you post it?
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Apr 14, 2016 19:23
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thespaceinvader posted:Slayer, Draeven Marauder, Rending Gouge, Rain of Blows, Boots of the Mighty Charge, Horned Helm, Deadly Axe, Surprising Charge. Rageblood Barbarian, Deadly Axe, Jagged Gouge. Charging Rampage, Horned Helm. Begin fishing by 12. Extra fun: hybrid with Cleric. Pick up attacks that allow you to punish with OA's. Melegaunt's Darkblade Fullblade, Heavy Blade Opportunity. Tactical Warpriest PP level 16 lets you straight up mark with an at-will attack and punish with an opportunity.
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Apr 14, 2016 19:27
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Yukari posted:Staves are 2 handed weapons, but 1 handed implements. Is it possible to hold one in your offhand, and attack with an arcane weapon power, like Eldritch Strike, and get dual implement spellcaster bonus damage to it? Dual Implement Spellcaster says it works for any arcane attack power and you're holding an implement in each hand. Same question as above but now say you DONT have implement proficiency in the weapon. I don't have a quote but my instinct is that, if an item doesn't count as an implement for you (meaning you don't have proficiency with it), then it ceases to be an implement and therefore is ineligible for Dual Implement Spellcaster. That being said if you are proficient with staves as implements... just put something in your offhand that you are proficient with. Why does it have to be a staff?
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Apr 14, 2016 19:43
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thespaceinvader posted:I can't remember the wording, can you post it? Dual Implement Spellcaster Prerequisite: Dex 13, any arcane class Benefit: When you use an arcane attack power and you are wielding a magic implement in each hand, you can add the offhand implement’s enhancement bonus to damage rolls. Both of your implements must be usable with this power, and you must be capable of wielding both implements, to gain this benefit. Wording from the Wiki, so not sure how accurate it is.
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Apr 14, 2016 19:43
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You can't make a weapon attack with a stave that's wielded in one hand. It only acts as a weapon if you're holding it in two. Are you saying you want to two-hand the stave and try to get DIS bonuses? Because no, you have to be wielding two implements, one in each hand.
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Apr 14, 2016 19:48
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Yukari posted:Staves are 2 handed weapons, but 1 handed implements. Is it possible to hold one in your offhand, and attack with an arcane weapon power, like Eldritch Strike, and get dual implement spellcaster bonus damage to it? Dual Implement Spellcaster says it works for any arcane attack power and you're holding an implement in each hand. Same question as above but now say you DONT have implement proficiency in the weapon. quote:When you use an arcane attack power quote:and you are wielding a magic implement in each hand quote:you can add the off-hand implement's enhancement bonus to damage rolls. Both of your implements must be usable with this power, and you must be capable of wielding both implements, to gain this benefit. Where I'd say it gets at least contentious is "both implements must be usable with this power". Eldritch Strike isn't an implement power, it's a weapon power. Your pact blade is both a weapon and an implement, so yeah, sure, usable with Eldritch Strike. (But this might also be read this as "it needs to be an implement power" in which case that's the end of it right there. It's debatable at the very least.) Your staff is also a weapon as well as an implement, so it technically also is, but here's the thing that, in my view, cinches it: you have to wield a staff in two hands in order to use it as a weapon. By definition of the thing you're trying to do, you're not doing that. As an implement, it's not usable with Eldritch Strike. Obvious solution: get two pact blades. And hope your DM is tolerant of strict rules-as-written readings because I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to work this way. 
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Apr 14, 2016 19:48
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Or just roll with it because there are far more degenerate things in the game.
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Apr 14, 2016 19:53
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Dick Burglar posted:You can't make a weapon attack with a stave that's wielded in one hand. It only acts as a weapon if you're holding it in two. Are you saying you want to two-hand the stave and try to get DIS bonuses? Because no, you have to be wielding two implements, one in each hand. Take Staff Fighting. Then it works raw, and you can do it all with one staff. It's dumb, but there are WAY more degenerate combos in 4e.
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Apr 14, 2016 19:55
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The only way staves get interesting in 4e is through shenanigans, otherwise it's a pretty awful weapon. Even with shenanigans, I think Clerics are really the only ones who can get anything out of them (weapon and implement attacks, bonuses for using simple weapons, feats like Staff of Travel). Does Staff Fighting's double weapon make the staff a dual implement and thus qualify for Dual Implement Spellcaster?
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Apr 14, 2016 20:31
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I think you could make a case for it, and I'd allow it in my game, but personally I'd much rather dual-wield two different implements for two different sets of enchants. There's a lot of implements that are useful even if you never cast through them.
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Apr 14, 2016 21:07
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Mecha Gojira posted:The only way staves get interesting in 4e is through shenanigans, otherwise it's a pretty awful weapon. Even with shenanigans, I think Clerics are really the only ones who can get anything out of them (weapon and implement attacks, bonuses for using simple weapons, feats like Staff of Travel). It makes it function as two separate staff weapons, so I don't see why not. it's not remotely broken. Staves are a little more interesting with Staff Expertise, mostly for casters though.
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Apr 14, 2016 21:25
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thespaceinvader posted:It makes it function as two separate staff weapons, so I don't see why not. it's not remotely broken. There are also the interesting Sorcerer|Fighter Hybrid Builds that do cool stuff with it as well.
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Apr 14, 2016 21:41
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Arena Fighter is the most hilarious thing to do with Staff Expertise. Note the precise wording of the Arena Fighter's main feature, that any feat that gives bonuses to hit or damage applies to all your arena weapons. Not just the bonuses, the whole feat...
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Apr 14, 2016 23:14
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thespaceinvader posted:Arena Fighter is the most hilarious thing to do with Staff Expertise. Note the precise wording of the Arena Fighter's main feature, that any feat that gives bonuses to hit or damage applies to all your arena weapons. What would you abuse as your other arena weapon? Edit: I didn't read it properly, and so you'd have a really long reach weapon if you already used a reach weapon? Yukari fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Apr 14, 2016 |
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Apr 14, 2016 23:27
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S P I K E D C H A I N
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Apr 15, 2016 00:19
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Ah, yes, 15 ft reach proning as a basic that targets reflex. Good.
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Apr 15, 2016 01:11
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Are there any decent suicide style builds for any class? Like, using my own HP or healing surges for extra damage/conditions?
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Apr 15, 2016 02:35
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There's a few paladin powers that tend to do that plus a blackguard build that damages itself for extra damage (and usually mitigates that damage by building a temporary HP buffer).
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Apr 15, 2016 02:39
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Some barbarian powers do that, too. And technically the vampire can spend surges for damage/attacks, but uh
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Apr 15, 2016 03:00
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Revenants work best when dying, but that's pretty late game. Also, some warlock builds with that at will that triggers more damage if you take damage.
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Apr 15, 2016 04:49
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You also just described rebreathers.
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Apr 15, 2016 04:59
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Rebreathers are beyond gross though, don't do that to a campaign.
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Apr 15, 2016 05:19
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be a rebreather minus the part that keeps you from taking damage and go out in a blaze of fiery, burpy glory
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Apr 15, 2016 06:34
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S.J. posted:Are there any decent suicide style builds for any class? Like, using my own HP or healing surges for extra damage/conditions? Blackguard is probably what you want. With the right Paladin powers they can even be fun to play!
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Apr 15, 2016 08:43
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I think a blackguard/bard hybrid going into the war chanter PP would meet the requirement, gives a source of THP you can spend to power the suicide powers and an interesting range of power selection.
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Apr 15, 2016 09:25
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What ways are there to avoid OAs from casting ranged/area spells in melee range?
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Apr 15, 2016 17:49
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Yukari posted:What ways are there to avoid OAs from casting ranged/area spells in melee range? http://dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Staff_Expertise
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Apr 15, 2016 17:50
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Is that literally it? I was somewhat hoping for a more universal way, since I'm using a heavy blade as a weaponment, don't really have the option of holding a staff.
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Apr 15, 2016 18:11
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Yukari posted:Is that literally it? I was somewhat hoping for a more universal way, since I'm using a heavy blade as a weaponment, don't really have the option of holding a staff.
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Apr 15, 2016 18:17
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Staff Expertise is the easiest option, but there's also stuff like Shadowdance Armor (level 5+, Cloth or Leather) or Shimmering Armor (level 4+, Cloth). If you want something more specific it would help if you mentioned your race and class(es).
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Apr 15, 2016 18:21
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Yukari posted:Is that literally it? I was somewhat hoping for a more universal way, since I'm using a heavy blade as a weaponment, don't really have the option of holding a staff. What class?
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Apr 15, 2016 18:22
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fatherdog posted:You also just described rebreathers. Rebreathers have changed man. They only ever hit themselves in the THP since the Sensate theme came out and made them even MORE broken.
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Apr 15, 2016 18:22
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fatherdog posted:What class? Bard
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Apr 15, 2016 18:37
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Any more details like level, race, equipment, multiclasses and bardic virtue? You can do things such as shifting backwards before making a ranged attack or using your ranged attacks before closing into melee, and if you can teleport then it becomes even easier especially at epic.
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Apr 15, 2016 21:08
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Sorry to just jump into the thread, but ... I've played D&D a bit here and there since 1e as a kid. I was a big fan of 2e, didn't mind 3e and 3.5, and am now in a 4e campaign with a group of Millennials who mostly haven't played anything before 3.5, if they've played at all. I kind of feel like a jerk for complaining, but the current DM - we've been rotating every few levels - absolutely insists that he doesn't want to "cheat" on the dice rolls and treating the whole thing as him vs. us. So he complains when he misses, complains when we hit him, and whines about the party being too strong and how it's no fun for him. Am I crazy to say he's going about this all wrong? I keep telling him to fudge the numbers and he huffs about how he wants to be "honest." I'm at wits' end.
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Apr 17, 2016 04:46
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pookel posted:Sorry to just jump into the thread, but ... What the gently caress? Okay, first of all, he's a lovely RPG'er for approaching any part of the game with that kind of attitude. Second, it's loving fourth edition D&D, the only edition of the game where the math makes any kind of sense! He has all the tools he needs to make encounters as easy or as deadly as he loving wants, with precision! He doesn't need to cheat on the dice rolls for himself or the characters because the game actually loving works, but if he isn't putting any effort into figuring out how the game works, he shouldn't be DMing, flat out. And that goes for any game. It is an incredibly simple matter to make the encounters more difficult if he wants to more adequately challenge the party. Come the gently caress on.
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Apr 17, 2016 04:51
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pookel posted:Sorry to just jump into the thread, but ... You can try asking him WHY he feels you guys are too strong---are fights resolving too quickly for his monsters to wear people down? Are you just getting really lucky hits in? Is the adventuring day not long enough to encourage pacing out daily powers? Is he building the monsters based on bad math / using them from pre-MM3 (where the math is wonky and sometimes things are unfairly hard and sometimes you're fighting pinatas made of damp tissue paper). It might all be his perception, but if it is, just walking through that kinda "find and fix" conversation might be all it takes to get him thinking that no, it's all in his head. Or maybe he does suck. Only time will tell.
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Apr 17, 2016 04:56
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It's all premade adventures - we're going through a book campaign. I don't think that's terrible per SE considering none of us ever played 4e before, but it adds to his insistence on playing it exactly as written even when it's unbalanced. Have I mentioned no one here is an experienced DM? I've played with really good DMs before, but I have never done it myself, and I don't really want to. Still, it would be hard to be worse ..
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Apr 17, 2016 05:12
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