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Which non-Power of the Daleks story would you like to see an episode found from?
This poll is closed.
Marco Polo 36 20.69%
The Myth Makers 10 5.75%
The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve 45 25.86%
The Savages 2 1.15%
The Smugglers 2 1.15%
The Highlanders 45 25.86%
The Macra Terror 21 12.07%
Fury from the Deep 13 7.47%
Total: 174 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
  • Locked thread
MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWuTeR7xCU4

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Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Jerusalem posted:

It's a toss-up between 12 Monkeys and Fear & Loathing for me, but Brazil is wonderful too.


Who will bring down the Federation now? :ohdear:

Bad news on that front;


It's a document fact that the Federation survives right through to the end of the universe :smith:.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!

Wheat Loaf posted:

The first thing I saw Jonathan Pryce in was Tomorrow Never Dies, so I'm afraid that's what I tend to associate him with.

Pryce is one of the only bright spots of that piece of poo poo.

My first exposure to him was the film adaptation of Evita. :(

egon_beeblebrox
Mar 1, 2008

WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.



I watched the old B-movie, First Man Into Space, earlier today, and was delighted to see Roger Delgado pop up in it. It was an OK movie.

ThaGhettoJew
Jul 4, 2003

The world is a ghetto

I've seen this before and had forgotten how spot-on the casting and costuming were. I can just fall in love with Mark Heap and Mackenzie Crook all over again...

Prenton
Feb 17, 2011

Ner nerr-nerrr ner

egon_beeblebrox posted:

I watched the old B-movie, First Man Into Space, earlier today, and was delighted to see Roger Delgado pop up in it. It was an OK movie.

Quatermass 2 is a good one for Surprise Delgado.

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001



Wow, that sucks. He wasn't even that old either. Was looking forward to many more years of B7 audios...he was great in the role right up to the end.

I just realized I only have one full cast audio with Gareth left to listen to (Caged). :(

At least there's still some Liberator Chronicles I can get.


egon_beeblebrox posted:

I watched the old B-movie, First Man Into Space, earlier today, and was delighted to see Roger Delgado pop up in it. It was an OK movie.

Ainley does a great turn in The Land that Time Forgot, starring Doug McClure, as an rear end in a top hat German U-Boat XO.

Astroman fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Apr 15, 2016

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Short Synopsis: The Doctor accidentally ends up the Boss on Celebrity Apprentice UK

Long Synopsis: Four applicants for a job of "Time Traveler's Companion" find themselves scrambling to keep up with a series of tasks that even seem to catch their prospective employer - the Doctor - by surprise.

What's Good:
  • Nothing is as it seems. The entire story is based on multiple levels of deception, some obvious and others less so. The theme remains consistent from start to finish, with people either withholding vital information, allowing others to jump to conclusions, or actively lying. While it means you can't really trust anything that anybody says, it supplies an important context in terms of reminding the listener that there is more below the surface and that nothing should be taken at face value. I'm not a fan of the premise of the episode at all, but I do enjoy how it plays out, with everything nonsensical about it making sense once the listener has all the (currently supplied) information. It's also nice to see where and when they choose to make the Doctor aware of deceptions - some he falls for completely, others he just smoothly goes along with, and he rarely calls anybody openly out on lies even when they're obvious. There's a nice sense that the Doctor is more onto it than most but not infallible. There's also a level of characters jumping to conclusions that are nicely undercut by the Doctor who uses the odd experience he has stumbled on as a chance to instruct and teach. When people start disappearing and an alien is located, the applicants assume it is behind everything and are at a loss when the Doctor asks them why they didn't just ask it. When a missing team is used as evidence to accuse a suspect, the Doctor reveals that they've jumped to conclusions by assuming the team was missing for sinister reasons and not perfectly mundane ones. Basically this is a story that rewards those who do (and punishes those who don't) look beneath the surface. But even that gets turned on its head when another ancillary character given an unusual amount of screen-time is offered a chance to become a major (and recurring) character and just straight up (if politely) rejects the notion - the listeners shouldn't make assumptions either!

  • The threats. Divided into two parts, each part relies on a distinct threat that keeps the applicants (and the Doctor, importantly) busy. These threats are nicely handled, just big enough to be a real worry while also managing to maintain a sense of having been somewhat cobbled together on the fly. People disappearing into thin air seemingly at random creates a nice level of paranoia and then a race against time once the cause is discovered, and the moment of hesitation of one applicant has fatal consequences which in turn kick off the events of the second part. While the first threat ends up being rather easily resolved, the true "threat" came in the lack of information/understanding they had of the situation until they investigated it, and it makes sense that once everything is figured out it becomes relatively elementary to resolve. More difficult to deal with is the second threat - at first an advanced but crude giant robot stomps towards the hotel, easily taken down by a simple trip, but then multiple smaller versions appear and begin repairing the larger one, while a rogue AI (is there any other kind?) begins the process of taking complete control of the planet's computer and electronic systems. This is made possible by a moment's hesitation in the first part of the story, reminding the applicants that their actions have consequences. Again there seems to be a relatively simple solution, but this gets complicated as various characters begin to reveal their deceptions out of their own self-interest. The final threat is made possible by the resolution of this event, which in turn leads to the Doctor finally finding his new companion.

  • The season arc tease. All throughout the story the Doctor seems as much in the dark as everybody else about what is going on. By the end of the story, revelations make him aware that not only was somebody else running him through this maze, but that they were undertaking their own application process in another part of town, having discarded the problematic candidates onto him to keep him busy. Enough information is presented to suggest who the Doctor might be going up against, but not enough to say definitively who that might be. I can think of several characters it might be (and it could be somebody completely new for all I know) and so long as it isn't the Forge or more of the loving Headhunter I'm looking forward to finding out who they are, and more importantly what they're up to.

What's Not:

  • The premise. While I'm a fan of Eddie Robson's writing and enjoyed his take on The Office in Human Resources, I wasn't exactly thrilled at the idea of the Doctor holding auditions for a new companion. Even though the idea is almost immediately and obviously turned on its head by the clear implication (and later explicit admission) that the Doctor is as in the dark as everybody else, having him take on the role of the mentor/judge who lines up the contestants to make misleading statements before pulling the rug out by kicking out a different person than expected just fell flat for me. I'd argue that RTD already did as good a job with pillorying Reality-TV with Bad Wolf as it would be possible to do in Who (and others would argue even that was terrible) and seeing yet another tired "subversion" of the artificial and aggravating plague of reality television that I do my best to avoid in the first place didn't endear this story to me.

  • Needing context. While it's nice that the end revelations put everything that preceded it into context and explains why characters (including the Doctor) acted the way they did, it only means that the frankly baffling and inconsistent actions makes sense at the end of the story. On a first listen, I found myself constantly thinking/saying,"What? Why would they....? That doesn't make any sense...." and it just went on like that until characters would reveal their true intentions/backstories and I'd go,"Oh.... okay." There's a balance that needs to be made between a game-changing revelation and a nonsensical story - you should be able to enjoy a story on its own merits up to the point that new information puts it all into a new context. It's rare (but not unheard of) for a story full of contradictions to be engaging on its own , and this story is unfortunately not one of those rare occurrences.

  • The new companion. The basis of this story by Big Finish was to keep the viewer from knowing who the Doctor's new companion would be following the departure of Sheridan Smith. As a result, they wrote the story so that any of the applicants could feasibly (if not optimally) be the new companion - indeed, all four seem to be based largely on versions of previous companions like Adric, Harry Sullivan, Tegan, Leela etc. But every single one of them is lying/deceiving the Doctor in order to get what they want. This means that once we finally get the new companion, we don't know anything at all about them, they're a complete cipher. We don't know what their personality is like, only the barest sketchy knowledge of their backstory and motivations etc. So it is hard to feel much of anything, either enthusiasm or dread for the person who got the role that this entire episode was about getting. They may turn out to be great, maybe they'll be awful, but based on this story there is no way to know because the new companion is barely seen/heard in this story, just a role that they chose to play in a bid to get the job.

Final Thoughts:

Situation Vacant is designed to introduce a new companion, and though it accomplishes this it does little to endear the listener to them (or to make them abhor them, to be honest). The premise was not one that appealed to me, even as a subversion, and it just didn't suit the Doctor to be put into that "Boss" role. On the plus side, it introduces some neat threats/situations to be dealt with by the Doctor and his applicants, sets up the (presumably) end of season stuff, and has a lot of fun with forcing the characters to approach things with a critical and questioning eye. It's at its best when the Doctor is in teacher mode, and at its worst when he's in "reality show judge" mode. If you're looking for a story that introduces a new companion though, this probably isn't the best starting point since the actual real character only shows up and speaks for themselves in the final few minutes of the audio. It's a perfectly serviceable story and Paul McGann is good in it as usual, but it is far from Eddie Robson's best. It has the lighthearted, comedic tone he does so well, but the basic Reality-TV format he's subverting doesn't have the same bite/fun to it that his version of The Office (itself a subversion of Reality-TV!) had.

Flight Bisque
Feb 23, 2008

There is, surprisingly, always hope.
http://cartoonmuseum.org/exhibitions/future-exhibitions/50174-doctor-who-the-target-book-artwork

I want to go to there. :swoon:

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Jerusalem posted:



Short Synopsis: The Doctor accidentally ends up the Boss on Celebrity Apprentice UK

Long Synopsis: Four applicants for a job of "Time Traveler's Companion" find themselves scrambling to keep up with a series of tasks that even seem to catch their prospective employer - the Doctor - by surprise.


I really liked this one, but that might be because I always like the silly ones. James Bachman does a really good turn here, basically playing Harry Biscuit from Bleak Expectations, who is great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Godsbnt6JjY

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

It didn't quite work for me, but I can't criticize them for trying something a little different (in fact I applaud them for it!)

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

It's on my schedule!

(Literally: I went to add it to my phone calendar, and found its already on there. Thanks, past me!)

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

The_Doctor posted:

Thanks, past me!)

Maybe it was future you! :tinfoil:

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

Have fun!
I could see it now, The_Doctor travelling in a police box planting notes in the past thanks to a suggestion by two California high school students in a phone booth.

Gaz-L
Jan 28, 2009

Wheat Loaf posted:

The first thing I saw Jonathan Pryce in was Tomorrow Never Dies, so I'm afraid that's what I tend to associate him with.

He's wonderfully hammy in that, though. Also in the GI Joe movies. (He plays the PotUS/Zartan in disguise as the PotUS, and is delightful as the latter)

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001


Jerusalem posted:



Short Synopsis: The Doctor accidentally ends up the Boss on Celebrity Apprentice UK

I actually really liked this one. :)

Box of Bunnies
Apr 3, 2012

by Pragmatica
I know it's meant to be quite wretched but I couldn't stop myself from paying threebux for Unbound: Exile while it's on sale this weekend to experience the wretchedness for myself. There's too much good Doctor Who I haven't experienced yet to be purposefully wasting time on bad Doctor Who like this and yet here I am doing these terrible things to myself.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Box of Bunnies posted:

I know it's meant to be quite wretched but I couldn't stop myself from paying threebux for Unbound: Exile while it's on sale this weekend to experience the wretchedness for myself. There's too much good Doctor Who I haven't experienced yet to be purposefully wasting time on bad Doctor Who like this and yet here I am doing these terrible things to myself.

I loathe that Big Finish Audio Play, perhaps more than any other, and that includes Nekromanteia and The Rapture. It's staggeringly misogynistic and classist. Bad show, Briggsy, bad show.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013

Barry Foster posted:

I loathe that Big Finish Audio Play, perhaps more than any other, and that includes Nekromanteia and The Rapture. It's staggeringly misogynistic and classist. Bad show, Briggsy, bad show.

It's a shame, because at its heart it's got quite a clever set of ideas -- what if the Doctor went into hiding, a self-imposed exile where she has to give up the adventuring and generally stay under the radar. What if, instead of being pulled back into the life of adventure because innocents are in danger -- AKA the way these stories always go -- what if she went to great and damaging lengths to deny her own history?

Exile was sold on being a bawdy sex-change comedy, but it's also a story about the Doctor as alcoholic and possible schizophrenic. She experiences delusional spells (a trait strangely common among the Unbound Doctors), and there are moments when you can sense parts of the Doctor's earlier adventures peaking in around the edges of the script, in ways that suggest we're seeing a character who's losing their mind. Plus, casting Arrabella Weir as a working class Doctor means that you've got a good basis to explore and challenge some of the built-in assumptions about the character. Why is the Doctor (nearly) always an eccentric, upper-middleclass Edwardianite? How is that an essential part of their characterization?

Just look at the play's best scene if you want to see what Exile could have been -- the sequence where Weir drunkenly communes with a static playing television. It's the middle of the night, the character is blackout drunk, and she's hallucinating a vision of her former life, but she's also detected an alien message hidden among the whitenoise. Okay, I haven't heard the play in years, but I remember the sequence being spooky, sad and interesting. At least, taken on its own.

However, the entire thing decides to bill itself as the broadest possible comedy, and ends up being basically rubbish. (And, yeah, sexist and classist). Still inherently braver and better than Full Fathom Five or He Jests At Scars, though. The only thing good about that last one is Michael Jayston's performance and the (gorgeous) score.

FreezingInferno
Jul 15, 2010

THERE.
WILL.
BE.
NO.
BATTLE.
HERE!
I kind of like He Jests At Scars, if only because it answers the question of "what if the Valeyard won Season 23" with "The show gets further bogged down with old continuity references and lots of violence and then gets cancelled".

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001


Open Source Idiom posted:

Exile was sold on being a bawdy sex-change comedy, but it's also a story about the Doctor as alcoholic and possible schizophrenic. She experiences delusional spells (a trait strangely common among the Unbound Doctors), and there are moments when you can sense parts of the Doctor's earlier adventures peaking in around the edges of the script, in ways that suggest we're seeing a character who's losing their mind. Plus, casting Arrabella Weir as a working class Doctor means that you've got a good basis to explore and challenge some of the built-in assumptions about the character. Why is the Doctor (nearly) always an eccentric, upper-middleclass Edwardianite? How is that an essential part of their characterization?

Just look at the play's best scene if you want to see what Exile could have been -- the sequence where Weir drunkenly communes with a static playing television. It's the middle of the night, the character is blackout drunk, and she's hallucinating a vision of her former life, but she's also detected an alien message hidden among the whitenoise.

:stare:

This sounds bad, like Torchwood bad or Walking Dead Comics That I've Never Read But Heard About Carol's Arc bad, and I will be avoiding this like the plague.

cargohills
Apr 18, 2014

I don't remember anything particularly awful from The Walking Dead comics.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

cargohills posted:

I don't remember anything particularly awful from The Walking Dead comics.

The Governor is pretty terrible.

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS
Also a baby getting shotgunned to death.

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001


Walking Dead Comic Spoilers:

quote:

Tensions start to rise between Carol and Tyreese when Michonne is introduced, and Carol begins to fear Tyreese will be attracted to her. Carol tries to ignore Tyreese and Michonne's friendship for some time and simply just brush it off as nothing, until she witnesses Michonne performing oral sex on Tyreese in the prison gymnasium. Initially, this led to her to think that she had to try and compete with Michonne for his affection, so when they were in bed she shamefully and tearfully attempted to give him oral sex as well. She openly expressed how she couldn't bring herself to do such a degrading act and broke down into tears.

quote:

On one occasion, she passionately kisses Rick when he attempts to console her. She proposes the idea of a polygamous or plural relationship between him, Lori, and herself. Her reasoning being that since the normal rules of society no longer apply, they can live however they want, raise their children and provide each other with security and comfort in this nightmarish world. He rejects her idea. Visibly hurt, she goes to Lori and attempts to propose the polygamous relationship to her, only be to shot down a second time.

I read that and I'm like "nope, I'll just stick with the show."

egon_beeblebrox
Mar 1, 2008

WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.



Finally watched "Death of the Doctor" and thought it was pretty cute. I like Jo a lot, and I thought RTD did really well with 11. Too bad he didn't write an episode of Who when Smith was the Doctor

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Yeah I would have really liked an RTD penned 11 story under Moffat. It would be neat just to see how he'd work within somebody else's constraints, and also just because it'd be nice to see him write a story without having to worry about all the extra stuff that comes with being the showrunner.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

Astroman posted:

Walking Dead Comic Spoilers:



I read that and I'm like "nope, I'll just stick with the show."

The first one more-or-less works in context. The second one is actually a thing that happens on the show.

Believe me, there's so so so much bad storytelling and characterization in TWD comics that neither of your examples rate.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer
The main problem with The Walking Dead in any format is it's a parade of unending horror and degradation and there's only so long you can watch people go through bad things with no end in sight. Night of the Living Dead works because it's a movie and it ends.

cargohills
Apr 18, 2014

I think it's pretty good.

computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP

Maxwell Lord posted:

The main problem with The Walking Dead in any format is it's a parade of unending horror and degradation and there's only so long you can watch people go through bad things with no end in sight. Night of the Living Dead works because it's a movie and it ends.

That's the overall issue with comic books. You basically have to acknowledge that you're dealing with a character archetype, because if even half of the stuff any of these characters did in the last 20 years is "canon" then it becomes incredibly silly.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

by Fluffdaddy

computer parts posted:

That's the overall issue with comic books. You basically have to acknowledge that you're dealing with a character archetype, because if even half of the stuff any of these characters did in the last 20 years is "canon" then it becomes incredibly silly.

Some characters wear this well. Superman works fantastically as an anthology-style hero due to his more detached narrative. Batman is mostly the same.

They're both mythic figures who can easily change and shift with the times, and can work with stories that totally ignore their continuity just as well as they can stories that acknowledge and embrace them.


The Punisher, on the flip side, makes absolutely zero sense if you think of him in any kind of logical, narrative way. Dude has been Black, an Angel, a Frankenstein Monster and I think he might have been Iron Man once, all in the same continuity and the same life time. And much like Charles Bronson, the longer his story goes on, the sillier and sillier it becomes.

cargohills
Apr 18, 2014

I don't think TWD is really all that comparable given that it's still one continuous story.

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.
My problem with the Walking Dead comic is that the art is garbage (after issue 6 or 10 or whenever the original artist left) and the story is boring as poo poo. And I say this as someone who kept up with it until Negan showed up. His intro is when I had to step back and cut that turd loose.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

Yeah the new artist loving sucked poo poo in comparison to the old one.

It's less that and, as usual with Kirkman, he relies more and more on gimmicks and "awesome poo poo" over good storytelling. TWD was and is at its best when it routes back to its main theme - moral relativism is an essential tenet of the post-apocalypse, and that all that separates the heroes from the villains is a bare half step, a tiny little push in either direction. Negan (who isn't a good character), at his best, was the epitome of that - basically Rick, but a little more sociopathic, a little less forgiving and a little more selfish. There's no room for black and white after everyone dies - only shades of grey.

But then, you know, Michonne cuts off a billion more heads with her thousand-folded hanzo steel as Rick and his crew are crack shots with infinite ammo, invalidating every decent storytelling decision Kirkman makes.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

by Fluffdaddy
Could be worse.


Could be Invincible.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
Laughing my rear end off at "the new artist" in reference to the guy who has drawn 145 issues of the Walking Dead without missing a beat. Tony Moore probably hasn't drawn that many comics in his entire career.

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.

Rhyno posted:

Laughing my rear end off at "the new artist" in reference to the guy who has drawn 145 issues of the Walking Dead without missing a beat. Tony Moore probably hasn't drawn that many comics in his entire career.

Quality over quantity. Jim Lee might make deadlines no problem, but I'll take Frank Quitely or JH Williams over him any day, delays and all. Boring art in a visual medium should be a punishable offense.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

Big Mean Jerk posted:

Quality over quantity. Jim Lee might make deadlines no problem, but I'll take Frank Quitely or JH Williams over him any day, delays and all. Boring art in a visual medium should be a punishable offense.

Jim Lee doesn't make deadlines either.

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Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.
That's even more shameful then. Boring art that can't hit shelves on time.

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