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The smart footballers end up dragging themselves out of being working class and living comfortably off their capital, a great example of this would be Robbie Fowler who became a property magnate. On the other end of the spectrum you have Paul Gascoigne.
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Apr 15, 2016 15:24
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JFairfax posted:Class is a social construct anyway, who are you to tell me that I am not a member of the aristocracy? how inbred are you?
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Apr 15, 2016 15:24
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Jose posted:how inbred are you? well my father is from Somerset...
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Apr 15, 2016 15:26
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There's also a cultural divide between people who are economically working class but who have a greatly varying live experience because of differences in pay. Someone just scraping by is in a distinctly different position from someone on £50k a year. Both are working class and both should share political interests but the latter is probably not going to identify with the former and vice versa, and the former may justifiably see the latter as the enemy if their wealth disparity causes them to vote against the interests of the poorer worker.
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Apr 15, 2016 15:26
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LemonDrizzle posted:If someone on £75k is neither working nor middle class, what class are they? It's a good question, but not one I'd pretend to be able to properly answer. They are certainly better off than the breadline workers, and better off than the occasion luxury crowd, but they don't fit into a meaningful definition of 'middle' class - I suppose you could consider them middle and the 6-figurers the upper class with the inherited-wealth millionaires being an entire tier unto themselves, but even then that makes them the 'middle' of a group of four. Basically this whole division system is bullshit. There's people who work, and people who sit on a pile of money like Smaug. Some of those people work directly for Smaug (like those in the finance industry) and those way at the bottom who show that trick-up economics is real as their hard work earns more money for Smaug.
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Apr 15, 2016 15:27
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In the fairly recent past it was highly possible for the upper working class to buy into things like share deals from national asset privatization or buy to let properties, which allowed a chunk of the working class to become middle class by benefiting from capital income too. Ostensibly this was to create a 'democracy of shareholders' but all it did in reality was give the existing middle class and a chunk of the top of the working class a jump into being 'self made' Tory voters and now they're pulling that ladder up because there's nothing left to do that with again.
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Apr 15, 2016 15:32
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Total Meatlove posted:People wrongly equate someone being in a wheelchair with total lower body paralysis, make pisstaking video about the match last night where some in the disabled section at Anfield jumped up to celebrate Oh, I know exactly why they would post that today. Because, you know, there was a cover up going to the highest levels of the Belgian government regarding the Heysel stadium disaster and, to date, nobody has been brought to justice.
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Apr 15, 2016 15:46
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The Belgians are also nonced up to the max in the higher echelons, Marc DeTreux was most likely part of a pedo ring that served Belgian elites.
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Apr 15, 2016 15:48
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OwlFancier posted:I still think that relationship to the means of production is the best definition of economic class, and should inform your politics, and that combining that with money is a reasonable way to define cultural class, and can be used to inform who you think is a oval office. its the only definition that can actually be defined
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Apr 15, 2016 16:00
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This book has an excellent discussion of social class in England and how it has almost nothing to do with how much money you've got http://www.amazon.co.uk/Watching-En...ing+the+english It's great and everyone should read it
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Apr 15, 2016 16:00
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Trin Tragula posted:This book has an excellent discussion of social class in England and how it has almost nothing to do with how much money you've got Ooh, cheers for this. I'll put it on my backlog. I ought to start reading it by *checks backlog* August 2019. So many boooooks
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Apr 15, 2016 16:05
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Trin Tragula posted:This book has an excellent discussion of social class in England and how it has almost nothing to do with how much money you've got
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Apr 15, 2016 16:15
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Miftan posted:My job and university are both in London and right now I'm dependent on my job for my visa anyway. We are very strongly considering moving to the Greater Manchester area once I'm done. My partner is adamant we have nothing to do with Birmingham but I've never been there. Manchester is cool and good and I miss living there sometimes. 
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Apr 15, 2016 16:16
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Oberleutnant posted:Class and class are not synonymous, and observations of the niceties of English behaviour don't cover both. Still a good book about the social distinctions of class in the UK (if not the economic ones)
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Apr 15, 2016 16:21
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Phew, that antifa discussion a few pages back was a doozy, huh? Didn't realise I shared this thread with so many big, tough boys!
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Apr 15, 2016 16:22
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I would pay money for an antifash pinup calendar. "Darren, 25 from Swansea kicks an EDL member in the shin wearing nothing but his steel toes."
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Apr 15, 2016 16:23
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Economic definitions of class dont really cut it these days, concepts of cultural capital need to be taken into account as well as economic capital.
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Apr 15, 2016 16:28
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Eh, I disagree. Cultural capital takes a pretty massive back seat to economic concerns. You can't eat charm, you're still hosed if you lose your job whether you're on £100k or £15k.
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Apr 15, 2016 16:30
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yeah I think cultural capital is only really relevant in that it can help people to acquire financial capital
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Apr 15, 2016 16:33
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OwlFancier posted:I would pay money for an antifash pinup calendar. Albert sports his favourite slinky, silk briefs as he ponders how to defeat the enemy and their nebulous, evil plans. Basil toys with his bulge as he stamps on the head of his subhuman foe, engorged with the inarguably righteous violence of a frustrated male. Are Albert or Basil fash or antifa? Makes u fink.
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Apr 15, 2016 16:40
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if youre on 100k for any appreciable length of time you aren't hosed if you lose your job unless youre really really poo poo with money
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Apr 15, 2016 16:41
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if the anti fascists stick to beating the poo poo out of fascists id ont give a gently caress if theyr thugs
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Apr 15, 2016 16:43
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XMNN posted:if youre on 100k for any appreciable length of time you aren't hosed if you lose your job Well no, I wouldn't be, because I compulsively hoard money because I really hate not having a buffer. But most people I know simply expand their expenditures to meet their income. And I can't really blame them because that's what seems to make them happy, but they need to keep their jobs to keep their lifestyle, they could probably start selling things to meet their mortgages but they'd be pretty hosed pretty fast after a little while.
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Apr 15, 2016 16:44
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OwlFancier posted:Eh, I disagree. Cultural capital takes a pretty massive back seat to economic concerns. You can't eat charm, you're still hosed if you lose your job whether you're on £100k or £15k. I dont mean like that I mean completely in defining class distinctions a la Bourdieu's ethnographies of France, its also why I'd say the traditional working, middle, upper class isn't really descriptive enough these days.
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Apr 15, 2016 16:48
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Apr 15, 2016 16:49
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OwlFancier posted:Well no, I wouldn't be, because I compulsively hoard money because I really hate not having a buffer. yeah that's covered under "really really poo poo with money" although tbf "sort of averagely poo poo with money" probably works too i have absolutely zero (0) sympathy or class solidarity with someone who gets paid five times what i do and then spends at least what i make in a year on luxurys and ends up skint because they couldn't be arsed putting any of it aside XMNN fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Apr 15, 2016 |
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Apr 15, 2016 16:50
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It's not very surprising when you live in a society geared completely towards consumption, that getting more money simply results in more consumption. It is perhaps the greatest evidence of your commonality that spending behavior does not necessarily change when you increase the amount of money involved, people spend everything they earn, they just have more expensive vices.
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Apr 15, 2016 16:52
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The academic paper that this all came from was really good and interesting and was rather misrepresented by the press.
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Apr 15, 2016 16:56
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social class has always felt very reductive/simplistic (sometimes patronising) to me, that's why I'm only interested in economic class
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Apr 15, 2016 17:02
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Good avatar material though.
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Apr 15, 2016 17:02
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I prefer Class As
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Apr 15, 2016 17:02
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Eggs?
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Apr 15, 2016 17:04
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Guavanaut posted:Good avatar material though. He is aware.
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Apr 15, 2016 17:05
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Guavanaut posted:Eggs? Cake
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Apr 15, 2016 17:06
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JFairfax posted:Cake OwlFancier posted:He is aware.
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Apr 15, 2016 17:11
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Phoon posted:social class has always felt very reductive/simplistic (sometimes patronising) to me, that's why I'm only interested in economic class I think its important to look at as things like what is consider say good taste for example and who gets to define this is a further way to oppress the working class via symbolic violence.
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Apr 15, 2016 17:11
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StoneOfShame posted:Economic definitions of class dont really cut it these days, concepts of cultural capital need to be taken into account as well as economic capital. Sure they do, the good old fashioned proletariat/bourgeoisie one works just as well. The idea that people aren't culturally "working class" only applies if you're either looking at greater detail at social factors viz a viz class identity or you're actively trying to sabotage class solidarity.
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Apr 15, 2016 17:27
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XMNN posted:if the anti fascists stick to beating the poo poo out of fascists id ont give a gently caress if theyr thugs They usually do other cool stuff like handing out supplies to local rough sleepers, helping with eviction resistance, helping out other left wing groups, putting on punk gigs and left wing events etc. It's like they're the opposite of fascists. Anti-fascists if you will.
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Apr 15, 2016 17:30
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Sure they do, the good old fashioned proletariat/bourgeoisie one works just as well. The idea that people aren't culturally "working class" only applies if you're either looking at greater detail at social factors viz a viz class identity or you're actively trying to sabotage class solidarity. Or if you are trying to understand how cultural factors are used to strengthen the established class hierarchy.
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Apr 15, 2016 17:34
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Blacknose posted:They usually do other cool stuff like handing out supplies to local rough sleepers, helping with eviction resistance, helping out other left wing groups, putting on punk gigs and left wing events etc. It's like they're the opposite of fascists. Anti-fascists if you will. that's all a bonus but if literally the only thing they did was fight violent racists in the street because they enjoy it that would actually be pretty ok and positive imho because violent racists seem p bad, to me
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Apr 15, 2016 17:39
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