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Beeez posted:Daenerys honestly makes more sense as a villain at this point in the story. I find it interesting how differently D&D seem to view Daenerys and Stannis when the two characters are actually rather similar. Both are obsessed with getting what's "rightfully" theirs after feeling put upon by their siblings and living in their shadows their entire lives. Their interest in justice at times seems to serve these ends as well, in that both Stannis and Daenerys do many things that seem to reinforce their self-image and further their self-serving ambitions while acting like it's all just how it's "supposed" to be. well the obvious problem is I have never liked Show dany. In the books she is a decently well rounded character, who rises despite her young age and abusive sibling to actually do poo poo. she makes retarded mistakes but those can be attributed to the fact that she is like 15 and is naive as gently caress about politics and is basically has good advisers. Show dany is basically used as Tit and rear end fodder for the first season and makes drogo love her because she does cowgirl. then she kinda just gets lucky. the only times she ever does anything smart is when she gets the unsullied and tricks and burninates that one rear end in a top hat. Then she goes to meerren and fucks the entire place up and never listens to anyone while D&D kill of all the likable people surrounding her. It doesn't help that emilia clarke cant act that well (she was loving terrible in terminator gensys) I guess what annoys me is that everyone pays for their mistakes/fuckups, except for dany (and ramsay) Robb and the starks die because of gently caress ups, Tywin dies because he was a lovely father, eddard died because he was idiot and to noble, joffery died because he was a oval office, sansa got raped for ratings, and stannis dies because he burns his daughter alive. and what happens to dany. She gets lost i guess. In the books at least poo poo was alot more dire. in the show. not so much. I mean season 6 looks like she will finally face some consequences for being a retard. but i doubt that. my guess is drogon wills swoop in, eat the current kar and all the dathroki will bend the knee. then tyrion will do all the political foot work while dany gets railed by 2nd Dario. On stannis, Book stannis is much better then show stannis. I am just annoyed how rushed his end was. yeah he was a piece of poo poo, but i wanted to see him become more of a piece of poo poo. at least book stannis had ethics and poo poo. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Apr 15, 2016 |
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Apr 15, 2016 19:25
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Stannis would make the best king, fact.
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Apr 15, 2016 19:34
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Mortabis posted:Stannis would make the best king, fact. As monstrous as he is, yeah he would. Robb would have been alright, but he didnt want to be king of the 7, just of the north and he was more pushed into it. Joffery was poo poo, and would have made the mad king look like jesus if he had lived long enough. tommen while blameless is just a puppet. and dany is just meh. and hign chance of insanity. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Apr 15, 2016 |
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Apr 15, 2016 19:36
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Mortabis posted:Stannis would make the best king, fact. "Here is your daily portion of gruel, given by the mercy of King Stannis. Now report for your 16-hour shift in the mines!" E: VVV Considering how well Tyrion did as Hand, I'd agree, but the populace wants a king they can adore and cherish and while we the viewers/readers love Tyrion the people hate him. He'd kick rear end as Hand to a figurehead king like Tommen. WampaLord fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Apr 15, 2016 |
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Apr 15, 2016 19:37
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WampaLord posted:"Here is your daily portion of gruel, given by the mercy of King Stannis. Now report for your 16-hour shift in the mines!" that would have happend under any of them. maybe not dany, but her experiments with enlightenment haven't been working so well. Id want tyrion to be king. "Also off with your hand for not referring to his majesty full title of King stannis of Houses Baratheon, First of His Name, King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm." Tywin was a good hand too. terrible father, but smart as gently caress. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Apr 15, 2016 |
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Apr 15, 2016 19:42
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I think Tyrion post-ASoS would be a terrible king. He has given into most of his worst impulses and seems more concerned with vengeance and taking Casterly Rock than anything else. Of course, in the show that's mostly untrue, but in the books I think he'd make a bad king at this point.
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Apr 15, 2016 19:50
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Beeez posted:I think Tyrion post-ASoS would be a terrible king. He has given into most of his worst impulses and seems more concerned with vengeance and taking Casterly Rock than anything else. Of course, in the show that's mostly untrue, but in the books I think he'd make a bad king at this point. He' still be head and shoulders (heh) over the rest of them though. A drunken lech with a penchant for whores? Robert wasn't that bad so Tyrion won't be either.
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Apr 15, 2016 19:52
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Dapper_Swindler posted:"Also off with your hand for not referring to his majesty full title of King stannis of Houses Baratheon, First of His Name, King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm." "Don't blame me, I voted for Renly!" - said as I am whipped towards the mines.
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Apr 15, 2016 19:53
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Tyrion is an adept administrator when he actually tries. He is often hampered by the selfishness of others and his own predilections toward his family. People said this already, but the king as a simple figurehead works because ASoIaF is still a world where people are prejudiced against dwarfs. The people will never love him, which isn't a necessary requirement for Hand, but it is for the King.
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Apr 15, 2016 19:55
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Solice Kirsk posted:He' still be head and shoulders (heh) over the rest of them though. A drunken lech with a penchant for whores? Robert wasn't that bad so Tyrion won't be either. Robert was only ok because he had Good hands(until nedd) all he did was drink, gently caress, hunt, and yell at cersie. which makes me wonder, why didnt cersie have tyrion killed years ago.
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Apr 15, 2016 20:02
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I like the idea of Dany becoming a villain in the end. Somewhere I recall reading a fan made conclusion to the series which basically ends with Dany on the iron throne, one of her advisers informs her that the people in King's Landing are rioting, and the series closes with her informing her adviser to "burn them, burn them all".
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Apr 15, 2016 20:12
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Didn't want Jamie to cut off the sweet dick supply.
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Apr 15, 2016 20:13
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Dapper_Swindler posted:Robert was only ok because he had Good hands(until nedd) all he did was drink, gently caress, hunt, and yell at cersie. Robert didn't actively gently caress the kingdom up and start wars though. His biggest crime was getting massively in debt because of all the lavish tournaments and feasts he liked to hold. But in all, he kept the peace and didn't actively gently caress with his people. I actually like show Stannis better than book Stannis. Stephen Dillane brought a lot of charisma to that role. In the books Stannis is written as so thoroughly unlikeable that you wonder why anybody ever follows him. I feel like GRMM went a bit overboard with that. Dillane balances out Stannis' demeanor by having enough personal magnetism that you can see why soldiers would follow him into battle and why people would respect if not love him. Of course D&D hosed his story up badly unfortunately.
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Apr 15, 2016 20:16
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What did Tyrion do that was so exceptional during his stint as Hand (which tbh basically amounted to being in charge of King's Landing and not much else) other than building the chain and finding better use to the wildfire Cersei ordered? It seems like most of his time was spent plotting against his sister or alienating Lannister allies on court.
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Apr 15, 2016 20:23
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Ginette Reno posted:Robert didn't actively gently caress the kingdom up and start wars though. His biggest crime was getting massively in debt because of all the lavish tournaments and feasts he liked to hold. But in all, he kept the peace and didn't actively gently caress with his people. And it's theorized by some that even Robert's lavish lifestyle wasn't what actually bankrupt the kingdom, it was Littlefinger who scammed his way into making the economy of King's Landing completely reliant on him to function.
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Apr 15, 2016 20:28
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emanresu tnuocca posted:What did Tyrion do that was so exceptional during his stint as Hand (which tbh basically amounted to being in charge of King's Landing and not much else) other than building the chain and finding better use to the wildfire Cersei ordered? It seems like most of his time was spent plotting against his sister or alienating Lannister allies on court. Tyrion's stint as the Hand is mostly impressive in comparison to how much Cersei is loving things up before hand. Tyrion isn't a mastermind during his time, but the position of the Hand can almost be described as 'don't gently caress everything up' so its ok. We do know that Tyrion is actually pretty competent when he is motivated though, because its a A Thing that his father made him 'Master of Sewers' or something at the Rock out of spite, and we're told he actually did a great job managing the role because he was hoping to actually get somewhere with Tywin. But he didn't, so he stopped caring and starting drinking and being an rear end.
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Apr 15, 2016 20:32
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Dapper_Swindler posted:Robert was only ok because he had Good hands(until nedd) all he did was drink, gently caress, hunt, and yell at cersie. and risk what happens when Tywin finds out who killed his son, no matter how much he hates him?
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Apr 15, 2016 20:32
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Ashcans posted:Tyrion's stint as the Hand is mostly impressive in comparison to how much Cersei is loving things up before hand. Tyrion isn't a mastermind during his time, but the position of the Hand can almost be described as 'don't gently caress everything up' so its ok. Tyrion doing a great job with the sewage doesn't in any way qualify him to rule a kingdom. Hot pie is also competent when he's properly motivated. I think a lot of the hype comes from Tyrion being a sympathetic character whom we mostly experience from his own POV, if you think about some of the poo poo he's done without always giving him the benefit of the doubt that stems from knowing his motivations it's pretty easy to see that he didn't do himself many favors in court and got into many altercations (particularly with Joffrey) he could have easily avoided had he not been so obsessed with trying to one up everyone and send zingers and death threats all day long, imo he actually proved himself to be a rather good military tactician but a somewhat incompetent politician.
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Apr 15, 2016 20:41
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Ashcans posted:Tyrion's stint as the Hand is mostly impressive in comparison to how much Cersei is loving things up before hand. Tyrion isn't a mastermind during his time, but the position of the Hand can almost be described as 'don't gently caress everything up' so its ok. Along with this, he is brutally efficient at finding out any of the weak links within the organization he is managing. Other than that, his biggest accomplishment was removed from the show, but it would be his foresight to build a giant chain to trap the navy that was on its way to invade King's Landing.
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Apr 15, 2016 20:42
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I think Tyrion's not bad as a politician in the sense that he used his power as Hand to its full potential, something Ned notoriously did not do except for the one time where he nearly made Tywin into an outlaw and enemy of the crown, which would have forced Robert to actually deal with the Lannisters. But on the other hand(no pun intended), he let his self-loathing and fragile ego control him too much, making himself into the perfect patsy for Littlefinger's plot against Joffrey.
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Apr 15, 2016 20:50
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Tyrion doing a great job with the sewage doesn't in any way qualify him to rule a kingdom. Hot pie is also competent when he's properly motivated. His altercations with Joffrey were needed though. Even though Joffrey grew to despise him over them, Tyrion's biggest and most important role in his time as hand is keeping Joffrey and Cersei from completely loving everything up. Consider some of the dumb poo poo that they did even while Tyrion was there. That's that whole riot that happens and Joffrey and his retinue are so clueless and cowardly that they leave Sansa behind and she almost gets raped and killed until Tyrion sends the Hound out to retrieve her. There is also the whole Joffrey trying to strip Sansa and beat her in front of his court which Tyrion puts a stop to. Probably other poo poo I'm not remember off hand as well. Tyrion is an effective hand if only because he keeps Joffrey in line which no other person in the realm except Tywin has proven able to do.
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Apr 15, 2016 20:54
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Ginette Reno posted:Robert didn't actively gently caress the kingdom up and start wars though. His biggest crime was getting massively in debt because of all the lavish tournaments and feasts he liked to hold. But in all, he kept the peace and didn't actively gently caress with his people. true. The problem with show stannis is you never really see a good side of him except for a few movements. you only hear about from davos, and somewhat from Nedd. I think Dillane does a great job depsite obviously not giving poo poo. I guess my problem is you never really see the "lawful good" stannis that everyone describes. probably because he doesn't exist at least in the show. I dont mind that Show stannis is dead. I just feel like dropping all the poo poo in 15 min span is retarded. Ginette Reno posted:His altercations with Joffrey were needed though. Even though Joffrey grew to despise him over them, Tyrion's biggest and most important role in his time as hand is keeping Joffrey and Cersei from completely loving everything up. I think the issue is every lannister except tyrion and tywin is an idiot. and all of them a broken and hosed up in some way. Cersie is smart with politics, but she doesn't have much forsite and she uses mostly to protect her kids and gently caress over people she doesn't like. Jamie just wants to be loved and viewd as honorable knight because He did the right thing in a society that only likes the appearance of doing the right thing.
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Apr 15, 2016 21:24
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Kevan was capable. Not quite like his brother of course but still very competent. Tywin was an idiot in his own way that was just as destructive as anything Cersei had done. Had Tywin actually fully accepted Tyrion and recognized his innate abilities.. The only real time Tywin and Tyrion were working towards Lannister goals without getting into each other's poo poo resulted in them breaking Stannis' massive army/navy and making an ally of the Tyrells who were previously a major threat. This allowed them to enjoy a secure position in King's Landing and time for Tywin to consider his options and ultimately conspire against Robb which broke the north as well. onemillionzombies fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Apr 15, 2016 |
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Apr 15, 2016 21:31
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onemillionzombies posted:Kevan was capable. Not quite like his brother of course but still very competent. True. Tywin only cared about his legacy and keeping the family going. which deep down he knows he has failed. His twins are loving around with each other(which he denighs to himself) and his daughter birthed a barely controllable monster and his youngst son is misshapen dwarf that killed his wife.
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Apr 15, 2016 21:50
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I have not been keeping up with info on season 6 but holy poo poo that second trailer as soon as I saw the screen shot of the Targ soldier seriously implying there will be a substantive flashback. I'm sure its been discussed to death, but is that Mel in Mereen? Also Arya going all Daredevil with Stick training.
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Apr 15, 2016 22:18
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She's a different red priestess.
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Apr 15, 2016 22:31
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They cast at least two red priestesses for Meereen.
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Apr 15, 2016 22:40
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Season 3 is On Demand right now. Holy poo poo, Kissed by Fire is such a great episode. Shireen and Davos 
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Apr 16, 2016 01:41
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Tyrion is clever and able to accomplish what he sets out to do, despite difficult opposition, and he lacks malice or contempt or utter indifference for the common people, which makes him potentially a better ruler than any of the other options. Stannis, book Stannis especially, is a piece of poo poo human being, and would be an even worse king, no matter what any of you say. The man literally outlawed laughing at feasts. Laughing at feasts. Not to mention brothels on his island, and the only reason he didn't outlaw them kingdom wide is because the rest of the small council laughed him out of the room when he suggested it. He's a lot like Joffery in the fact that he thinks he is king by divine right (despite participating in a rebellion himself), and just assumes that everyone else will accept that fact as unquestioningly as he does. Anyone who doesn't is obviously a traitor to be executed without a second thought. He would not last a year as king without an full scale rebellion. Maybe they could call it the laughing rebellion?
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Apr 16, 2016 02:19
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Lloyd Boner posted:She's a different red priestess. Ah okay. She really looks like Mel, so it's easy to get confused based on the quick clip. Though it looks like they're doing what I assumed and use Bran to get the flashbacks. Though who are the soldiers that are at the steps to Baelor's sept? Their leader is wearing blue and white feathers, but the only house that has those colours is Arryn and I doubt they'd be going with Jaime to assume to challange the High Sparrow.
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Apr 16, 2016 02:21
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twistedmentat posted:Ah okay. She really looks like Mel, so it's easy to get confused based on the quick clip. Though it looks like they're doing what I assumed and use Bran to get the flashbacks. I thought the one with the really stupid hat was Mace Tyrell, who has a very good reason to be there.
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Apr 16, 2016 02:25
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twistedmentat posted:
Lycus fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Apr 16, 2016 |
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Apr 16, 2016 02:25
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I would argue Stannis' belief that he must be King isn't because of what he believes to be "divine right", because he pretty clearly isn't very religious when he starts his campaign against the Lannisters, but by legal right. Eventually, of course, he comes to buy into the Lord of Light stuff more and starts to think he's Azor Ahai and justifies his actions that way, but the reason for his pursuit of the throne is based more on the laws of man than it is on divine right, at first. And while I think he's more self-serving than he'd like to admit, he's got a point. The laws of succession are meant to safeguard the realm from being totally "every man for himself", with the crown constantly changing hands between whoever happens to be strongest at the time. Had Renly won, he'd establish a dangerous precedent about that, and his justifications are pretty faulty. The rebellion against Aerys happened because he violated the social contract between him and his vassals, murdering the Lord of a Great House and his heir without a trial after his idiot son kidnapped the daughter of said Great House who was already betrothed to the Lord of another Great House. Renly's attempt at taking the throne from his brother, on the other hand, is predicated on Stannis being an unpleasant person with a smaller army, which aren't valid reasons to overthrow the rightful king and appoint oneself king in his place.
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Apr 16, 2016 02:39
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Holy poo poo, the Jaime/Brienne/Pod commentary on episode 2 in season 5 is hilarious.
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Apr 16, 2016 02:48
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Yeah, I guess legal right is more accurate than divine right, but the point is that to him it's a simple fact, and not supporting this simple fact, in his mind, is just as absurd as someone claiming the sky was red. His attitude about it reminds me of that scene in S1 with Joffery, where Cersei is trying to explain that asking a conscripted northern army to invade and sack the north is a really bad idea, and Joffery is just like  "I'm not asking. I'm their king." like that puts the whole matter to rest.
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Apr 16, 2016 02:51
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counterfeitsaint posted:Yeah, I guess legal right is more accurate than divine right, but the point is that to him it's a simple fact, and not supporting this simple fact, in his mind, is just as absurd as someone claiming the sky was red. His attitude about it reminds me of that scene in S1 with Joffery, where Cersei is trying to explain that asking a conscripted northern army to invade and sack the north is a really bad idea, and Joffery is just like I agree, that's one of his big flaws. At least during ASoS/season 4 he realizes he needs to think more about his obligations to the realm as king and less about everyone else's obligations to him.
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Apr 16, 2016 03:09
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counterfeitsaint posted:I thought the one with the really stupid hat was Mace Tyrell, who has a very good reason to be there. Okay, that makes complete sense. Though isn't the house colours for Tyrell Green and Gold? Odd he's wearing Arryn colours. There's lots of good clues in heraldry, like Davos clearly on Bear Island, and Brianne in Riverrun. Looks like Stark banners among the others fighting Boltons.
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Apr 16, 2016 04:20
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I'm doing a re watch of Season 1 right now since I haven't seen it since I first watched it a couple years back. I am really confused regarding Vary's motivations. He is overhead by Arya conspiring in the dungeon about how they are waiting for when the time is right for the Targayans to cross the Narrow Sea and return to conquer the 7 kingdoms. But in that same episode Varys tries to have Dani assassinated. And considering in Season 5 how Varys openly supports Dani, and makes it clear that he has all along, why the gently caress did he try and have killed? So were the writers at this point planning on eventually introducing fake-Aeagon? Because nothing about Varys in the show makes any sense at all.
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Apr 16, 2016 04:29
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I'm doing a re watch of Season 1 right now since I haven't seen it since I first watched it a couple years back. I am really confused regarding Vary's motivations. He is overhead by Arya conspiring in the dungeon about how they are waiting for when the time is right for the Targayans to cross the Narrow Sea and return to conquer the 7 kingdoms. But in that same episode Varys tries to have Dani assassinated. And considering in Season 5 how Varys openly supports Dani, and makes it clear that he has all along, why the gently caress did he try and have killed? So were the writers at this point planning on eventually introducing fake-Aeagon? Because nothing about Varys in the show makes any sense at all. Wasn't Viserys still alive at that point? I thought he was the one that Varys and Illyrio were backing in the dungeon scene. So Dany would not have mattered at the time. I don't remember.
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Apr 16, 2016 04:35
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I'm sure they didn't have what they were gonna do with the fAegon stuff worked out back then, but regardless, Viserys was still alive when Varys sent the assassin and Dany wasn't at all special yet (no dragons).
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Apr 16, 2016 04:36
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