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Xoidanor posted:What, you can't stand a female character having a spine? Actually female spine injury is my fetish.
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Apr 15, 2016 22:03
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Fighting Trousers posted:Gotta say I'm pleased with the fact that evil, ALIE-ified Raven agreed with my assessment of Bellamy's character flaws. ALIE/Raven's strip downs of the cast really worked because the characters are really well defined and fleshed out. Everything she said hit because its all stuff we've seen play out and have figured out on some way or another but which hasn't been laid out like that because no one's as big of an rear end in a top hat as the AI. Its a testament to the writing and character development, really. Sober posted:Pretty sure Harper and Miller were part of the original 100. I know what you mean but it's sorta nice to have a bunch of background-ish characters still with us through it all. Yeah, I was just joking about how they disappeared this episode. But I agree, I like having a couple of tertiary characters who aren't main cast members but still have some real background and history to them. Makes for a fuller world. They're not just extras walking around in the background or "redshirts" randomly filling out ranks. So when they get lines and stories they actually feel like actual people. Even if its just to die. I never felt anything about Bellamy's girlfriend dying because she really just showed up to die. I'm a big fan of Harper and Miller and every time they get lines I worry its time for them to be sacrificed to Wanheda, the death god.
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Apr 15, 2016 22:15
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I got the sense that Raven was just letting it fly, heh, and even ALIE was a little taken back by the savage insults she was laying down.
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Apr 15, 2016 22:38
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jfood posted:I got the sense that Raven was just letting it fly, heh, and even ALIE was a little taken back by the savage insults she was laying down. Ha, right, I was expecting her to say something like "Tune it down a notch, are you crazy". The Alie actress and the director have nailed the ambiguous performance to such an extent that I can't tell if any given nuance in her performance is a masterful bit of characterization, or actually just an artefact of poor acting.
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Apr 15, 2016 22:42
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ALIE has this weird, aloof body language that always has me wondering. I totally saw what you guys saw and it looked like ALIE was taken aback by what Raven was saying or that it was having an effect. I read it as ALIE is basically a child learning new things all the time and observing the world. She's spent most of her "life" secluded from humans so this whole thing is a whole new barrage of information about humans, emotions, and relationships. Like she may have genuinely not known that all that stuff would hurt or get to them. This is an AI who killed the entire world because she thought it was the right move. So the idea that humans would be riddled with guilt and shame and anger and grief over all this poo poo were all new experiences for her that she was taking in for the first time. She just wanted Raven to do something to rile them up but Raven's the one who knew this poo poo would work.
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Apr 15, 2016 22:49
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Makes sense, her command may have been something along the lines of "break them psychologically", and she didn't know ahead of time what sort of uninhibited (and counterproductive to her purposesú stream of invectives it would unleash. It reinforces the idea that she may actually think she's being a genuinely good influence on humanity. Then again - she actually managed to manipulate many people into submission without any apparent problems, so the idea that she had didn't know what she was dabbling in is suspect.
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Apr 15, 2016 22:57
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It's the same dynamic as the AIs in Person of Interest, where one AI is made to rule humanity and make decisions for them, and the other is made to co-exist and learn from them (only executed infinitely better than POI), so it makes sense that the human elements like emotional manipulation and forced compliance are foreign to Alie-1.
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Apr 15, 2016 23:05
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I wish there was more of an insight into the City of Light. As it stands, we have seen nothing of it. I guess the idea is for the audience to have no clear concept of Alie, but I think she would work better as a character - not necessarily a human character, but a character of its own kind. Right now it's too easy to hate her for her to be a fully realized villain, imho.
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Apr 15, 2016 23:27
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steinrokkan posted:Makes sense, her command may have been something along the lines of "break them psychologically", and she didn't know ahead of time what sort of uninhibited (and counterproductive to her purposesú stream of invectives it would unleash. It reinforces the idea that she may actually think she's being a genuinely good influence on humanity. Well, she knows that "I can take away your pain" is a selling point which could just be a basic AI calculation that "pain" is a bad thing that people try to get rid of and makes them unhappy. Or could be something Jaha or someone else like her creator taught her. But she also didn't realize that taking away people's painful memories might cause them to reject her like Raven did because she couldn't process the idea that "love" is worth some "pain." So she was stopped up by what amounts to her either being unable to understand or just not understanding at the time the complicated balance of human emotions. So maybe she tells Raven "we need to find out where you are or get you free, so do something to try to get them to make a mistake" but she doesn't really get that what Raven uses as a way to do that is to prey on their guilt, shame, and grief because those are all things ALIE just doesn't understand and may never have even experienced through one of her puppets. I don't think ALIE was genuinely taken aback or upset by Raven's viciousness. I just think she may not have expected it or fully understood it. Like, when Raven's berating someone there's always someone else sitting there listening and sympathizing. But ALIE's just standing there seemingly trying to process and understand it all. The thing is, ALIE isn't brilliant or infallible or anything. We've seen a bunch of situations where Raven or Jaha or in this episode Clarke had to explain something to her and she had to take a second to process it. Raven only stopped fighting after Clarke said "if Raven dies you'll never get the AI". ALIE stopped for a second and gave that inquisitive, child like look at Clarke like she hadn't really considered the idea that by killing Raven she might be angering Clarke enough to be vindictive and never give her what she wants. She didn't anticipate the reaction Jasper had where he wanted to destroy the AI to punish ALIE. Or, you know, maybe ALIE CAN have emotions and she's developing her moral compass with stuff like this. We don't know much about what she's capable of and we knew even less about the second AI and how it affected Lexa and the other Commanders.
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Apr 16, 2016 00:04
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Xoidanor posted:Well that, and, Jaha is crazy. Yeah, let's not forget how crazy-prophet Jaha was BEFORE he met ALIE, when he went on walkabout from Camp Him with Murphy and the Redshirts. And how he didn't give a poo poo when the Redshirts ate it.
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Apr 16, 2016 00:37
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And Jaha was kind of a totalitarian dick even before he suffered brain damage in space and started hallucinating poo poo.
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Apr 16, 2016 00:44
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STAC Goat posted:And Jaha was kind of a totalitarian dick even before he suffered brain damage in space and started hallucinating poo poo. Only Jaha could make a genocidal AI more evil.
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Apr 16, 2016 00:54
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Its what I think makes it pretty interesting. Its both conceivable that Jaha is such an insane totalitarian zealot that he's 100% complicit with all of this and thinking for himself... or that as crazy as Jaha is he would have drawn the line at torturing Raven to submit or having Raven kill herself to coerce Abby to submit if he was ALIE-less. And there's really only one way we'll know for sure the answer and I'm fairly confident we'll get a very good scene where Abby, Kane, and Co "free" Jaha expecting him to be on their side only to be shocked to discover he's a monster.
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Apr 16, 2016 01:01
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Foul Ole Ron posted:Only Jaha could make a genocidal AI more evil. It's also the other way around. Titus explicitly said that the AI magnifies the qualities that the host already possesses. That's why he was so worried about whats-her-name becoming commander. So if someone has a tendency towards totalitarianism, like Jaha did, then with the AI they become REAL totalitarians. Old Jaha would never have condoned torture. New Jaha encouraged ALIE to do it.
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Apr 16, 2016 01:33
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What is Alie's endgame? Have they said and I just missed it? I couldn't figure out why Niylah looked so familiar all of a sudden and I realized she's Dale Bozzio on the 100. Suuuuuper glad they didn't kill her off.
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Apr 16, 2016 02:47
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End game is Second Life: Apocalypse Edition.
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Apr 16, 2016 02:55
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Lindsey Morgan (Raven) is just a beast of an actress, goddamn. She just kills it every time. Also, ALIE: "we'll have to kill them all"  Uh, have you even met Genghis Clarke yet you fuckin AI bitch? Good luck.
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Apr 16, 2016 03:01
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One obvious difference between ALIE 1.0 and ALIE 2.0 is that the former's chip can be ingested, whereas the latter's chip has to "choose" the host. I wonder if this is because there's only one 2.0 chip, and it wants to make sure it doesn't settle down inside a loser, or if there's another reason they haven't touched on yet.
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Apr 16, 2016 03:05
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pahuyuth posted:Lindsey Morgan (Raven) is just a beast of an actress, goddamn. She just kills it every time. I feel like we're watching the start of something great with her. enraged_camel posted:One obvious difference between ALIE 1.0 and ALIE 2.0 is that the former's chip can be ingested, whereas the latter's chip has to "choose" the host. And yet somehow the "key" chips they ingest still end up at the back of the neck.
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Apr 16, 2016 03:14
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It looks like they dissolve into the bloodstream and then excrete themselves out as circuitry. The Commander chip had those tentacle things instead.
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Apr 16, 2016 03:19
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Kwyndig posted:It looks like they dissolve into the bloodstream and then excrete themselves out as circuitry. The Commander chip had those tentacle things instead. Still, you ingest it and it ends up at the back of your neck, the same place the C Chip was.
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Apr 16, 2016 03:21
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I don't think the 2.0 chip "chooses" a host, the assembly of eligible Nightbloods is supposed to end up with the most worthy being chosen to lead. I imagine that over time this has degenerated into the Nightbloodbath where "the strongest" survives to lead. That's what the Grounders value - strength. For all we know installing the Flame in the new Commander is done via them swallowing it. I do wish Clarke would stop taking it out of its case and showing it off to everyone. It's priceless! And she's putting her grubby fingers all over something that will probably be jammed into someone's body without being cleaned! 
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Apr 16, 2016 03:23
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enraged_camel posted:One obvious difference between ALIE 1.0 and ALIE 2.0 is that the former's chip can be ingested, whereas the latter's chip has to "choose" the host. I'm pretty certain we'll find in time that all the "flamekeeper" stuff is a big pile of superstitious mumbo-jumbo bullshit that has built up over the years. In the one flashback Becca said something to the effect of that she was designing 2.0 to learn from people and how they think, so it wouldn't make cold logic decisions like "the problem is too many people, so let's wipe them out" like 1.0 did. (Considering that Jaha was involved in his share of cullings as leader of the Ark, it makes sense that he'd find a kindred spirit there.) You can see the difference between them in the way that Clarke was able to sway its philosophy from "eye for an eye" to "be the better person" as opposed to Alie 1.0 who seems to be more of the mind of "what can I do to ensure maximum control." As for why there's only one 2.0 chip, Alie 2.0 seems to be entirely contained in the chip rather than 1.0 which has a mainframe that uses humans as its dumb terminals. raditts fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Apr 16, 2016 |
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Apr 16, 2016 03:27
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hollylolly posted:I don't think the 2.0 chip "chooses" a host, the assembly of eligible Nightbloods is supposed to end up with the most worthy being chosen to lead. I imagine that over time this has degenerated into the Nightbloodbath where "the strongest" survives to lead. That's what the Grounders value - strength. it's her tiny chip girlfriend that lives in her boobs and she's proud of her
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Apr 16, 2016 03:31
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Rhyno posted:Still, you ingest it and it ends up at the back of your neck, the same place the C Chip was. Well, yeah, the easiest way into the brain is through the base of the spinal cord, (or the ocular cavity  ) but you don't want to actually stick a bunch of microprocessors into the brain and potentially harm all that delicious gray matter. So instead you build your computer (or implant it) at the back of the neck, where you can get at it if something goes wrong, and it extends microthin wires into the brain from there to actually read and interface with all the lovely electrochemical activity. The only thing on the back of your neck is a bit of muscle and some subcutaneous fat to protect your spine anyway.
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Apr 16, 2016 03:41
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hope and vaseline posted:the 100 have only been on the ground for about half a year. All of these events have taken half a year to transpire. That's a lot of trauma. ... wait. What?! The dropship landed on the ground just six months ago?! That sounds insane. How long ago did Skaikru go through arkfall? (Arkfall? Or groundfall? I feel like "arkfall" might be from Defiance, instead)
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Apr 16, 2016 05:14
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Season 1 took place in 29 days, going from the 100 wiki http://the100.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline
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Apr 16, 2016 05:17
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Arkfall is indeed from Defiance, but I'd say it's pretty appropriate here since it's literally what happened. 
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Apr 16, 2016 05:48
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raditts posted:I'm pretty certain we'll find in time that all the "flamekeeper" stuff is a big pile of superstitious mumbo-jumbo bullshit that has built up over the years.
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Apr 16, 2016 05:51
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steinrokkan posted:How much more spinal surgery will Raven go through in this goddamn show Or how much bullshit in general Heart condition Fell from the sky Got shot by Murphy Wide-awake surgery Got the whole death by thousand cuts started on her Drilled by the Mountain Men Debilitating leg pain Mentally tortured by an AI Taken over by AI Wrists slit Broke arm The most recent spinal surgery Raven is hardcore. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Apr 16, 2016 |
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Apr 16, 2016 12:29
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I'd laugh and laugh if, in the last five minutes of the series finale, Raven's heart condition finally catches up with her and she keels over and dies, without warning.
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Apr 16, 2016 12:35
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:That poo poo with Raven was horrifying I felt like Eliza Taylor's (Clarke) acting was real disappointing, and I guess I have to blame the writing because she was loving amazing in season 2. Her freakouts at RavenALIE and with the "It's LEXA!" moment just rang real hollow for me. CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Octavia laying the verbal smackdown on Bellamy was nice. Please die horribly Bellamy. CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:You too Jasper. No one cares about your whiny poo poo and the girlfriend you knew for like a week. pahuyuth posted:Lindsey Morgan (Raven) is just a beast of an actress, goddamn. She just kills it every time.
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Apr 16, 2016 14:30
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Alie taunting everyone was loving hilarious. Dropping some serious truth bombs.
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Jasper's been an awful and useless character ever since his ~girlfriend~ died.
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Apr 16, 2016 14:32
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Boris Galerkin posted:Jasper's been an awful and useless character ever since his ~girlfriend~ died. She literally melted into boils in his arms. Show some respect! 
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Apr 16, 2016 14:56
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Can't wait to see Monty kill his mommy a second time.. this time when he helps Clarke genocide the City of Light with a giant EMP.
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Apr 16, 2016 18:31
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VagueRant posted:I felt like Eliza Taylor's (Clarke) acting was real disappointing, and I guess I have to blame the writing because she was loving amazing in season 2. Her freakouts at RavenALIE and with the "It's LEXA!" moment just rang real hollow for me. Clarke has been kinda sidelined this season. Granted, in universe it was her own choice, because she walked away from her people and went to wander the Earth like Caine (not Kane). But yeah, she's been stuck in the B plot for awhile.
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Apr 17, 2016 04:16
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Astroman posted:Clarke has been kinda sidelined this season. Granted, in universe it was her own choice, because she walked away from her people and went to wander the Earth like Caine (not Kane). But yeah, she's been stuck in the B plot for awhile. It's clearly a D. Boob joke.
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Apr 17, 2016 04:20
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VagueRant posted:Absolutely! Have we figured out if that's officially her doing the ALIE voice yet? It didn't sound dubbed this episode. That's definitely her. She's just using a GA accent.
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Apr 17, 2016 04:38
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Seeing Monty make the impossible choice was cool especially after seeing people take the easier choice earlier in the season. My girlfriend pointed out that Raven only apologized to Jasper after she was rescued. Possibly she didn't feel sorry about raking clarke and bellamy over the coals. The City Of Light looks pretty nice. I like Jaha's character, I love characters who are completely committed to an ideology that is entirely foreign to me, but is consistent and basically sensible.
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Apr 17, 2016 05:27
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VagueRant posted:I liked what was being said, but I thought the reactions were terrible writing. The better, subtle way to play it would be to have the characters suffer it in silence, let the actors react on their faces. Instead we got "SHUT UP! YOUR SUPER OBVIOUS PLAN TO GET UNDER OUR SKIN IS TOTALLY WORKING!" They could have avoided almost all of their problems in this episode by just gagging Raven and putting a loving blindfold over her eyes.
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Apr 17, 2016 05:44
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