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A majority of the complaints I've heard about Doom multiplayer can be distilled to "This isn't exactly like Quake 3". Yeah, I can see the arguments against loadouts and other modern conventions but "You can't even memorise the map and camp out the RL spawn" isn't a legitimate complaint to me. The limited number of weapons you can carry is an odd choice though.
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Apr 15, 2016 14:56
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The loadout/maps being barren of powerups is odd because the feel and mechanics are very much like an arena shooter where map control is like 90% of the gameplay, but there's no reason to control the map outside of KOTH so it's just sorta shooting rockets at each other until someone falls over.
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Apr 15, 2016 15:10
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nexus6 posted:Yeah, I can see the arguments against loadouts and other modern conventions but "You can't even memorise the map and camp out the RL spawn" isn't a legitimate complaint to me. It kinda is a legitimate complaint because area control was the strategic element behind arena shooters. That's how they work.
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Apr 15, 2016 15:56
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i made a lil vid about the new DOOM beta, please enjoy  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qFpiuOWRzU
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Apr 15, 2016 16:02
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RyokoTK posted:Do this. It's a really dumb map. I read about how the torches on the winding corridor are shortcuts on some difficulty settings and just noclipped through those. I'm playing this to work my way up to UV skill level in general, not to learn how to speed run. I'm perfectly content with being a HNTR speedrunner if anything.
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Apr 15, 2016 16:22
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F.E.A.R. Extraction Point is pretty blah, but it does have a goddamn amazing minigun weapon. Frankly, if you get the minigun right in a game then you're at least guaranteed some fun no matter what.
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Apr 15, 2016 16:25
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Mr. Flunchy posted:F.E.A.R. Extraction Point is pretty blah, but it does have a goddamn amazing minigun weapon. This but with shotguns. Any game with a weak-rear end shotgun is a game I don't want to play.
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Apr 15, 2016 16:44
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Arivia posted:I read about how the torches on the winding corridor are shortcuts on some difficulty settings and just noclipped through those. I'm playing this to work my way up to UV skill level in general, not to learn how to speed run. I'm perfectly content with being a HNTR speedrunner if anything. Speaking of which, it is kinda annoying that so much of the Doom speed running community is focused on Ultraviolence and occasionally Nightmare. For the original IWADs at least, there can be major changes in map flow due to thing placement in the other difficulties.
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Apr 15, 2016 16:58
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nexus6 posted:A majority of the complaints I've heard about Doom multiplayer can be distilled to "This isn't exactly like Quake 3". Its an FPS where you can spawn with the 2 best weapons in the game already in your inventory. That's insanely moronic. Halo 4 literally JUST made that mistake, was a colossal flop both in eSports and casual PvP as a result, and Halo 5 completely reversed the decision because they saw how unpopular it was. How could Doom be so blind to do exactly the same stupid thing? Halo is even more mainstream and closer to COD than Doom is, and it didn't work in Halo, how is it going to work in Doom? That makes no sense. It has way more flaws beyond "its not a quake 3 clone". Its not a terrible game completely, it looks okay and it moves pretty fast on PC, but it does have a bevy of terrible, TERRIBLE design decisions that sound like they were dictated on high by the publisher. Things like burn cards don't belong in Doom at all.
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Apr 15, 2016 17:02
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All these complaints about the Doom MP Beta are legit complaints, but isn't the whole point of the beta to find and report imbalances and issues? It's a beta, people. Now, if they go ahead and ignore everyone, and ship it as is, then that's loving retarded.
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Apr 15, 2016 17:10
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They made some changes between the closed and open betas, like controls for FOV, damage numbers and announcer volume, taunting on the post-game screen etc. based on feedback. I don't exactly think they're going to completely rip out the loadout system and replace every map with DWANGO5 MAP01 a month out from release, but they aren't deaf.
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Apr 15, 2016 17:15
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I don't really hate loadout systems after playing Splatoon for so long. It turns out that you don't necessarily have to have pickups on a map (or even more than one weapon in your possession at a time) for an online shooter to be very good.
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Apr 15, 2016 17:20
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Mogomra posted:All these complaints about the Doom MP Beta are legit complaints, but isn't the whole point of the beta to find and report imbalances and issues? It's a beta, people. The point of a 'beta test' as originally intended was to find bugs and also to improve balance and issues, yeah. However, since around 2010 the term "beta" has been completely corrupted by the game industry. It doesn't mean 'beta test' in the software engineering sense anymore. Publishers have jumped all over the fact that most gamers started to find out about beta testing and get involved, and now it is 100% a marketing gimmick. By the time the "public beta" begins, all beta testing is already done and the game is on its way to going gold. "beta" is now the term for "demo".
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Apr 15, 2016 17:26
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BattleMaster posted:I don't really hate loadout systems after playing Splatoon for so long. It turns out that you don't necessarily have to have pickups on a map (or even more than one weapon in your possession at a time) for an online shooter to be very good. Not at all, but the thing is Splatoon is so different as a shooter compared to literally the entire industry you can't compare it that directly. Splatoon is genius, the kind of original poo poo I wanna see more of, and one of my favorite shooters of last year hands down. Things splatoon does: Emphasize mobility. You have two entirely different forms, one of which can't shoot but can walk on walls (if those walls are pre-painted) Emphasize territory control. You have to paint surfaces to walk on them and painting floors speeds you up and damages enemies. Emphasize objectives over kills. Kills are NEVER worth points in splatoon. There are no frags even recorded by the game for a stat screen or anything. Everything is about turf war or zone control or rainmaker. These things combine to make a game that is completely, completely different than an arena shooter mentality. So yes, loadouts can be good... if you're making an entirely different game. Slapping loadouts into an arena shooter however is really loving stupid and doesn't work. You see this kind of "Game A + feature of Game B = Better game!" mentality all the time, and it almost never works out. Games that really do great original things (Halo 1, TF2, Splatoon, etc.) spend years in development and testing iterating on the ideas until they find what works best. If you're going to do something wild and mixed up like that, you need that long development time and experimentation and willingness to toss out stuff that doesn't work. Taking one type of game and slapping on features from another type almost never works as-is.
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Apr 15, 2016 17:30
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Elliotw2 posted:What ads have you been seeing, because everything but a little bit of "oh yeah, we're having a demo I guess" has been about the single player. The multiplayer kinda feels like it was just tacked on because idiots complained that Wolf:TNO didn't have any multiplayer. There have been released five MP trailers so far. That in itself wouldn't be so bad, if there was any new footage of SP part, and there's none. Even on upcoming PAX East only MP will be shown. Maybe I'm biased, but I distinctly remember that five years ago DNF was promoted in the last weeks before release with only multiplayer mode, and the SP footage was either old (demo) or heavily edited and doctored (trailer). It only later was clear why - there wasn't anything to show what hasn't been already shown.
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Apr 15, 2016 18:01
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laserghost posted:There have been released five MP trailers so far. That in itself wouldn't be so bad, if there was any new footage of SP part, and there's none. Even on upcoming PAX East only MP will be shown. Let's keep the conspiracy theories at bay, and we'll see in May, that's right Heavy Metal's really rappin, that's what's happenin. DNF's campaign actually had a lot of variety and had plenty to show, but hey that's society you know the game has notoriety.
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Apr 15, 2016 19:20
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Heavy Metal posted:Let's keep the conspiracy theories at bay, and we'll see in May, that's right Heavy Metal's really rappin, that's what's happenin. DNF's campaign actually had a lot of variety and had plenty to show, but hey that's society you know the game has notoriety. I like the idea of the guy in the avatar spitting out this fire.
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Apr 15, 2016 20:13
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I'm enjoying the Doom multiplayer. It has that casual popcorn feel and it constantly throws stuff at you to unlock, you can just goof off and play and not take things too seriously. Doom multiplayer is the cool place to hang out. You can find most of the cool people there. In Doom multiplayer you can just chill and do whatever and totally relax. "Take it easy" is the Doom multiplayer motto, for example, that's how laid back it is there. Show up if you want to have a good time. Another good reason to show up is if you want to hang out with friends.
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Apr 15, 2016 22:40
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On the topic of heavily-scripted corridor shooters that everyone seems to be weirdly obsessive about... ( )A Russian chap bought a copy of Half-Life 2: Raising The Bar on eBay that turned out to be a publisher's proof with 100 more pages than the released version, featuring a bunch of previously-unseen concept stuff.    Thankfully, the guy plans to properly scan all these "missing pages" so that the internet at large can pour over them, speculate wildly and occasionally nonsensically, and build their own half-broken interpretations for Garry's Mod.
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Apr 16, 2016 10:55
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Segmentation Fault posted:I'm enjoying the Doom multiplayer. It has that casual popcorn feel and it constantly throws stuff at you to unlock, you can just goof off and play and not take things too seriously. Doom multiplayer is the cool place to hang out. You can find most of the cool people there. In Doom multiplayer you can just chill and do whatever and totally relax. "Take it easy" is the Doom multiplayer motto, for example, that's how laid back it is there. Show up if you want to have a good time. Another good reason to show up is if you want to hang out with friends. BYOBFG?
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Apr 16, 2016 12:12
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nexus6 posted:Yeah, I can see the arguments against loadouts and other modern conventions but "You can't even memorise the map and camp out the RL spawn" isn't a legitimate complaint to me. This hurt more to read than "spamming combos."
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Apr 16, 2016 12:25
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MOMMMMMM tell him to stop camping the rockets!!!!!!!! stop CAMPING!!! its not even a real strategy!!!!
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Apr 16, 2016 14:43
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK6L_I5C6bE
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Apr 16, 2016 14:51
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I pretty vividly remember the bad ammo situation in that game. It was pretty tough for 9-year-old me because I always ran out of pretty much everything.
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Apr 16, 2016 15:06
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laserghost posted:BYOBFG? I appreciate this 
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Apr 16, 2016 16:25
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RyokoTK posted:MOMMMMMM tell him to stop camping the rockets!!!!!!!! Why is that the only kind of gameplay some would want? I don't think that's essential to an enjoyable multiplayer FPS. My fav ever is the Action mod (Action Half-Life, Quake 2 etc) where you pick a loadout (way back in the 90s even) and go out there and kill fools. Akimbo pistols, handcannon, grenade, get out there. Memorizing the spawns on all the maps and going right for the rocket launcher is something some will find essential and miss, and others will not find essential and not miss. I think guy made a fair point. Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Apr 16, 2016 |
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Apr 16, 2016 18:10
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Even ActionHL had some pickups. It was one of my favourite mods too. The Specialists is similar, you even had weight limitations and a bigger arsenal but tried to be too serious while AHL was all goofy with movie characters and silly dodging.
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Apr 16, 2016 18:33
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Action Quake and HL had great deathmatch modes where there was only one of each special weapon and item on the map that didn't respawn while someone was holding it. It worked incredibly well because of how powerful the pistols and knives were. I was bummed when everyone started playing the loadout mode instead.
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Apr 16, 2016 18:42
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Guillermus posted:Even ActionHL had some pickups. It was one of my favourite mods too. ActionHL also had different modes, some had pickups some you just picked your stuff. I generally played the ones where you pick your stuff. Though you could pick up somebody else's weapon and drop a weapon if you wanted. And it would be cool if Doom ends up having more modes, I definitely need a free-for-all DM at least. Maybe they'll throw in a retro mode with weapon spawns for people looking for that. Just saying, even though I love classic arena DM, I actually do find it cooler to start with the rocket launcher. That way all your play time is spent getting better at using it, and everybody is having relatively even matches. I'm just less interested in the aspect of gun spawns, but I can dig that some prefer it.
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Apr 16, 2016 18:43
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I've never really played any Action mod, except briefly with Action Doom (both the original mod and the sequel)... Is that the same sort of thing? Also, goddammit, when are we going to schedule some online shenanigans with this thread? 
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Apr 16, 2016 19:17
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I beat Quake 2. I dunno, that was pretty awesome. I might skew more toward the original Quake, but outside of the surprisingly lousy-feeling chaingun (it had the killing power, but it lacked the "oomph", honestly) and weak rocket launcher (kind of criminally so), I had a ton of fun with that one. If Doom 4's single player is only as good as that, it'll be fine. (I admittedly have my doubts, given impressions of the MP, but that's a different team, so who the hell knows.)
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Apr 16, 2016 19:20
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For all its problems, Quake II is still a classic Id game, with the same mechanics, controls, and overall gameplay design as Quake. I doubt Doom 4 single player will have any of those inherent advantages.
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Apr 16, 2016 21:11
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:I've never really played any Action mod, except briefly with Action Doom (both the original mod and the sequel)... Is that the same sort of thing? The "real" Action mods were influenced by John Woo movies as far as I know. Lots of dual pistols, jumping, rolling, etc.
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Apr 16, 2016 21:34
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i don't have a problem with the loadouts if there weren't weapons that both hit an irritating nega-balance of "too weak" to be satisfying as what they are and too powerful to start with as loadouts because nobody uses ANYTHING OTHER THAN THOSE TWO WEAPONS basically in the loadouts they should put a nailgun and a single barreled shotgun in place of the rocket launcher and super shotgun, put them instead in the "Power Weapon" rotating pickup grab bag, make them more powerful, allow you to rocket jump, and bring back speed sliding
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Apr 16, 2016 21:38
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And that's Scythe done, on UV to boot. With lost souls and arch-vile resurrections presumably included, GZDoom said the final kill total for MAP30 was 1,107/1,107. It only took like 1 hour and 15 minutes on the timer, for the prized SUCKS rating. Never done anything that big, never done anything with that much infighting. It felt a lot like slowly tracing the map for puzzle pieces to fit together for various effects, alerting groups of enemies and then dragging them together. When I triggered the cacodemon horde in the main hall, it was terrifying and yet frustrating to see 100 of them pour in from all corners. When I realized I could take them to go fight the cyberdemons on ice side, I developed a huge grin. Lots of play like that. It was a lot of fun, though. I don't want to do it again right now, but I can definitely see the appeal of slaughtermaps like that, adding a new puzzle layer to the game and watching it interact while you do some fancy footwork. I like the architecture of slaughtermaps, so I'm definitely going to give some more a try in the future. MAP30 was large enough that I thought midway through "I should play something nice and small after this, just to take a break." Play Scythe for a break from Scythe? 
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Apr 16, 2016 21:44
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:basically in the loadouts they should put a nailgun and a single barreled shotgun in place of the rocket launcher and super shotgun, put them instead in the "Power Weapon" rotating pickup grab bag, make them more powerful, allow you to rocket jump, and bring back speed sliding
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Apr 16, 2016 21:55
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Mordja posted:Yeah, exactly. Loadouts work when you're basically choosing between a slew of similarly powered pistols and assault rifles, or if it's something like Battlefield where different classes have specific roles. In a supposedly old school shooter like Doom, flattening out the damage makes previously valuable, special weapons feel underpowered and unsatisfying. Quake Live  Man the LG in that game just depresses me. They nerfed it to death and then they compounded the damage by adding the HMG which is basically a version of the original Q3A LG that is simultaneously easier to use and less satisfying.
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Apr 16, 2016 22:00
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Arivia posted:Slaughtermap stuff This was how I felt after I beat Go 2 It for the first time. I still haven't tried any of the popular slaughter wads like Sunder, but beating Go 2 It and the secret map in Valiant showed me slaughter maps can be ennoyabke
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Apr 16, 2016 22:01
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Monster Infighting is the best mechanic from Doom that criminally never caught on.
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Apr 16, 2016 22:13
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khwarezm posted:Monster Infighting is the best mechanic from Doom that criminally never caught on. For extra fun, use a DEH or BEX that disables monster infighting immunities, such as how barons of hell can't projectile attack hell knights and vice versa.
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