|
Are you a This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| homeowner |
|
39 | 22.41% |
| renter |
|
69 | 39.66% |
| stupid peace of poo poo |
|
66 | 37.93% |
| Total: | 174 votes | ||
|
Sadly that's actually just a standard rape defense tactics. See also:quote:Defence witnesses told the court of interactions they had seen between the defendant and both of the complainants during the period of the alleged abuse. quote:COMPLAINANT #1 (Suppressed) The contradiction between witnesses seeing her ask for a back massage and one complainant's account including asking for a back massage disprove that the defendant ever put her in a compromising situation. Like, this is obviously not the summation of evidence the jury has dealt with, but you win a sexual assault defense by gaslighting the gently caress out of the complainants until they get something wrong or admit that at some point in the past there was a consensuality to their interactions which therefore is evidence against their complaints because obviously any rational person would immediately remove themselves from being in an uncomfortable position with a person who holds power, either directly or indirectly, over them by dint of their personal relationship or position in the community. Such an argument makes perfect sense to someone who has not been molested.
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2016 04:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 22:17 |
|
|
Stuff has really embraced the click bait style headlines even for serious and grim stories: "Man left steaming after boiling water tipped over head by colleague GRAPHIC CONTENT" Making a joke over a serious assault that could leave someone disfigured??
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2016 04:40
|
|
|
90% of the gifts MPs record in the register of pecuniary interests are sports tickets but Nikki Kaye lucked outquote:Hon Nikki Kaye (National, Auckland Central)
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2016 04:55
|
|
|
Ghostlight posted:Sadly that's actually just a standard rape defense tactics. See also: I mean I have no stake in this either way just curious about what you think
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2016 05:16
|
|
|
Two Finger posted:So he did it then? I think it's more a case of "This one situation means that the claims never happened". A lot of the reasoning from the defense seems to go "Well they didn't appear like normal victims so it means they can't be". Throw in the fact that massages were asked for at least once means that the girls were asking for it, which is a common judgement by the older and more conservative/religious individuals in the population.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2016 05:39
|
|
|
This is very relevant. http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/archive/national-news/338586/Courts-fail-child-sex-abuse-victims quote:* Though some jurors had accurate knowledge about sexual abuse of children, many believed common misconceptions. Ninety-two per cent of defence lawyers used these myths as the mainstay of their case, using claims that the child did not report the alleged offences straight away, or still had a close relationship with their abuser, or that they had retracted their allegation as proof they were lying. Rest is good too.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2016 05:48
|
|
|
As I said, I don't have access to the full range of evidence, but generally the problem with sexual abuse cases like this is that they are, by nature, generally a private crime; and as such, the quickest and easiest way to defend them regardless of the truth of the accusation is to simply hammer the complainants until that doubt is introduced through natural human error, whether through stress, waiting a year to get your case heard, or whatever. Personally, in the absence of an actual defense other than "how could he have abused her, these people saw nothing and one time she asked him to touch her but now she said he also bad touched her", I'm inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to the accuser simply because that doubt is so easy to produce in a courtroom at a time, and in front of people, far separated from the event in question. Traumatised people will get things just as wrong as liars, even more so when put under the stress of examination. Based on the Herald story he seems to have been acquitted on the basis of a) victims wouldn't be near their abuser, which is patently false especially if he's in a position of authority over them even more so if that position is being related (I forget if that detail has been released); b) victims said he forced them into compromising positions but people saw them ask for a massage once, which is not actually an inconsistency because there's no mention of whether it was prior to the abuse; the reported abuse was over a period of time so if he was abusing them he must have been playing it off like it wouldn't happen again or giving them assurances he understood it was inappropriate; or they had no actual control over whether or not they were around him because they were employed or related, and they were just trying to push through the abuse hoping he would simply stop. Sexual predation is simply not as cut and dried as that. The predator is relying on the trust of their environment and the fear and shame of their prey to cover their activities, and if they get into court that exact same uncritical environment and lack of immediate action by the victim is entered as a priori evidence against the accusations.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2016 05:55
|
|
|
Ghostlight posted:or they had no actual control over whether or not they were around him because they were employed or related Considering the ages the abuse covered I'm going to rule out employment.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2016 06:00
|
|
|
What a disgrace
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2016 07:24
|
|
|
If you're a cop and an MP, you can sexually assault your stepchildren and get away with it
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2016 07:27
|
|
|
Ghostlight posted:As I said, I don't have access to the full range of evidence, but generally the problem with sexual abuse cases like this is that they are, by nature, generally a private crime; and as such, the quickest and easiest way to defend them regardless of the truth of the accusation is to simply hammer the complainants until that doubt is introduced through natural human error, whether through stress, waiting a year to get your case heard, or whatever. Personally, in the absence of an actual defense other than "how could he have abused her, these people saw nothing and one time she asked him to touch her but now she said he also bad touched her", I'm inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to the accuser simply because that doubt is so easy to produce in a courtroom at a time, and in front of people, far separated from the event in question. Traumatised people will get things just as wrong as liars, even more so when put under the stress of examination. What's more is that the actual process of going through the trial can be very traumatic for the complainants, precisely because they get hammered by the defence attorneys like this. I think the whole way we handle sexual abuse cases in court is way more punishing on the innocent party than the guilty (whether its the alleged abuser or the victim)
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2016 08:10
|
|
|
that most people have a poor understanding of human behaviour is a big argument against the jury as an institution imo
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2016 08:40
|
|
|
Exclamation Marx posted:If you're a cop and an MP, you can sexually assault your stepchildren and get away with it and more so if your stephildren don't remember a traumatic event from two years ago completely accurately and consistently
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2016 09:53
|
|
|
Exclamation Marx posted:If you're a cop and an MP, you can sexually assault your stepchildren and get away with it I'm pretty sure if you're an MP and also a cop you can literally get away with daylight murder of a child in a crowded mall.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2016 10:00
|
|
|
focal ischemia posted:that most people have a poor understanding of human behaviour is a big argument against the jury as an institution imo Ditto democracy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2016 10:10
|
|
|
BARONS CYBER SKULL posted:I'm pretty sure if you're an MP or a cop you can literally get away with all kinds of sex crimes in New Zealand Examples include John Key and 4/5 cops who raped Louise Nicholas.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2016 10:20
|
|
|
door.jar posted:Examples include John Key and 4/5 cops who raped Louise Nicholas. You guys are weirdly determined to paint pony-tail pulling as a sexually motivated crime.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2016 04:55
|
|
|
Vulpes posted:You guys are weirdly determined to paint pony-tail pulling as a sexually motivated crime. Here we go...
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2016 04:57
|
|
|
Vulpes posted:You guys are weirdly determined to paint pony-tail pulling as a sexually motivated crime. You think Key would have pulled a male waiter's ponytail?
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2016 05:53
|
|
|
Ghostlight posted:Here's a list of non-creepy non-perv non-molesting reasons an older man might repeatedly engage in pulling the ponytails of women of varying ages:
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2016 05:57
|
|
|
Vulpes posted:You guys are weirdly determined to paint pony-tail pulling as a sexually motivated crime. A guy in a position of authority continuing to touch a woman for months after being asked to stop is sexual harassment. Hope that helps.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2016 06:14
|
|
|
Vulpes posted:You guys are weirdly determined to paint pony-tail pulling as a sexually motivated crime. It's not weird to describe the world accurately and without bias.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2016 07:21
|
|
|
In addition to the salient points above, John's a fuckin' creep.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2016 07:27
|
|
|
WarpedNaba posted:In addition to the salient points above, John's a fuckin' creep. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2016 07:34
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2016 07:44
|
|
|
Broadband is becoming a utility folks
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2016 14:46
|
|
|
I used to read cheeseontoast all the time  http://thespinoff.co.nz/11-04-2016/i-will-come-forward/
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 02:43
|
|
|
Ratios and Tendency posted:I used to read cheeseontoast all the time Yeah, reading that, and about that caretaker Robert Burrett (who had some of my highschool friends stay overnight at his house), and the whole Prominent New Zealander thing... it's been pretty grim.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 04:01
|
|
|
Surprise not surprising.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 04:01
|
|
|
Ratios and Tendency posted:I used to read cheeseontoast all the time article posted:Later that night, Allison opened Facebook in a browser tab. Riveting prose I must say.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 04:11
|
|
|
It's actually a really good piece of writing and journalism tbh Like it invokes just the right amount of nostalgia for those early internet days to realise how those women had that ruined for them by this pedo
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2016 07:11
|
|
|
"Kids need to know the value of work" - The father of an art student, and a DJ.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2016 07:38
|
|
|
Chalupa Joe posted:"Kids need to know the value of work" - The father of an art student, and a DJ. Then clearly they do know the value of work: it is that it doesn't really matter if you have rich parents.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2016 08:03
|
|
|
Art is hard, if you are devoted. I've worked with abattoir workers who are lazier than my muso mates, farm workers who are lazier than my art school mates, and software engineers lazier than road workers. Obviously the reverse applies as well, I've known some preeeeety lazy musos....
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2016 08:15
|
|
|
Chalupa Joe posted:"Kids need to know the value of work" - The father of Fixed. Occupation has no relevance.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2016 08:19
|
|
|
Also I am not so sure kids should necessarily have to become completely intimate with the value of work - why? What's the point? I am sure compared to ww2 vets, or people who workes 80 hour weeks for scrip back in the day we all sound like entitled whiney babies. As long as they can operate in the environment they find themselves who cares if they seem a little entitled. Saying that the internet is a human right sounds entitled, but it makes for a better society.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2016 08:40
|
|
|
I'm kinda thinking that "You're rich, that's like cheating at life!" is going to be a very vocal theme for the rest of the century.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2016 08:40
|
|
|
Being born rich is like the idkfa cheat code.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2016 09:23
|
|
|
Given how I never hear about rich people getting mugged in the street or strung up from the lampposts, you might as well kick in iddqd. Oh, and considering how they use the justice system, idnoclip.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2016 09:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 22:17 |
|
|
WarpedNaba posted:I'm kinda thinking that "You're rich, that's like cheating at life!" is going to be a very vocal theme for the rest of the century. Don't be #wealthist2025
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2016 10:12
|
|