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CapnAndy posted:Hey Booster, how was DC during the 90s? Oh my Goooood, what's wrong with his ffffaaaccceeee!!!! Is this the era when Rob Liefeld came to prominence? Lurdiak posted:Both were like trail mix with razor blades and used syringes mixed in with the tasty bits. Right so it's no good switching to DC to try and get more out of the 90s.
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Apr 18, 2016 21:07
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If you can find old Wizard books from the '90s I recommend getting them. They are hilarious in hindsight. There's nothing like cracking open a random Wizard from 1993 and going "What the gently caress was I living through at the time?"
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Apr 18, 2016 21:07
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Lurdiak posted:You know Tarot: Witch of the Black Rose?
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Apr 18, 2016 21:07
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X-O posted:Shi is not surprising. How you've been aware of comics at all for any period of time and not been unfortunately exposed to Lady Death is a surprise. No, neither were Image. Wildstorm?
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Apr 18, 2016 21:10
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zoux posted:Wildstorm? Lady Death was a Chaos Comics thing at the time. I think she's with Avatar now? Which makes sense. Shi I have no clue. It was an even smaller company than Chaos I think.
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Apr 18, 2016 21:18
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Ultragonk posted:Oh my Goooood, what's wrong with his ffffaaaccceeee!!!! Is this the era when Rob Liefeld came to prominence? DC had a fantastic 90s output: Morrison's JLA Chase Mark Waid's Flash the back half of Suicide Squad Moench/Kelley Batman Dixon/Nolan Detective Messner-Loebs Wonder Woman Kingdom Come Sandman Hitman Flex Mentallo Nightwing Doom Patrol Scare Tactics Starman L.E.G.I.O.N. Green Lantern: Mosaic Ostrander/Mandrake Spectre The Batman Adventures/Batman & Robin Adventures/Gotham Adventures (the DCAU line) Ennis' Hellblazer redbackground fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Apr 18, 2016 |
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Apr 18, 2016 21:18
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CapnAndy posted:I thought Lady Death doesn't actually get naked, she just constantly wears that outfit to make her fanboys think she's gonna at any given second? Well, you can't sell porn to adolescents if the characters don't wear at least token clothing. zoux posted:Wildstorm? Lady Death was Chaos!, and Shi was... some other forgotten company? Wildstorm was still an Image imprint at the time.
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Apr 18, 2016 21:18
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Pretty glad I wasn't reading comics in the 90s as an impressionable teen.
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Apr 18, 2016 21:20
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redbackground posted:DC had a fantastic 90s output: It always seems like Batman is a safe bet.
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Apr 18, 2016 21:20
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Wizard's letter pages did Twitter call outs from creators better in the '90s than Twitter does today.  EDIT: Here's the letter Larsen is responding to. 
X-O fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Apr 18, 2016 |
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Apr 18, 2016 21:23
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X-O posted:Lady Death was a Chaos Comics thing at the time. I think she's with Avatar now? Which makes sense. Shi I have no clue. It was an even smaller company than Chaos I think. This indicates she started at Crusade Comics. http://comicbookdb.com/issue.php?ID=15086 Eventually also ended up at Avatar. http://comicbookdb.com/title.php?ID=10836 Which obviously led to this in 2006:  There were so many variant covers. http://comicbookdb.com/title_covergallery.php?ID=9395 (19 variants of the "preview" issue, 20 variants of issue #0.)
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Apr 18, 2016 21:24
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Batman comes out of the 90s looking very good. Knightfall is remembered today as a critique of violent extreme 'updates' of classic characters, you had the Robin and Nightwing solo series, Oracle debuts in the 90s, No Man's Land was extremely good and gave us Cassandra Cain Batgirl, etc. Superman not so much, but it was a good decade for Batman.
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Apr 18, 2016 21:25
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redbackground posted:DC had a fantastic 90s output: That's like 2% of their output.
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Apr 18, 2016 21:26
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Uthor posted:That still happens, you know. I just picked up Spider-Gwen on Wednesday and was uber confused at what was going on until I got to the end and noticed it was part two in a crossover with Silk and Spider-Woman. I'd say this one's on you, given the recap pages plus the blatant trade dress to alert you to the crossover. The SPIDER-WOMEN title might actually be bigger than the book's title on the cover. X-O posted:Lady Death was a Chaos Comics thing at the time. I think she's with Avatar now? Which makes sense. Shi I have no clue. It was an even smaller company than Chaos I think. I believe LD's self-published now, I think in the same deal that gave Dynamite the other Chaos IPs..
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Apr 18, 2016 21:27
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Gaz-L posted:I'd say this one's on you, given the recap pages plus the blatant trade dress to alert you to the crossover. The SPIDER-WOMEN title might actually be bigger than the book's title on the cover. Well, dammit. Now I'm more annoyed that my shop gave me the J. Scott Campbell cover instead of the regular one! http://comicbookdb.com/issue.php?ID=359839 (I don't have a problem with Campbell, I just don't like getting variant covers as a rule.)
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Apr 18, 2016 21:32
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I want to know who here actually owns a comic starring LD's labelmate Purgatori.
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Apr 18, 2016 21:37
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redbackground posted:I want to know who here actually owns a comic starring Purgatori. Wow, there's a name I've thankfully not heard in forever.
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Apr 18, 2016 21:39
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Travis343 posted:Batman comes out of the 90s looking very good. Knightfall is remembered today as a critique of violent extreme 'updates' of classic characters, you had the Robin and Nightwing solo series, Oracle debuts in the 90s, No Man's Land was extremely good and gave us Cassandra Cain Batgirl, etc. Superman not so much, but it was a good decade for Batman. Even secondary titles like Legends of the Dark Knight and Shadow of the Bat ranged from okay to great depending on the storyarc/creative team.
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Apr 18, 2016 21:40
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redbackground posted:I want to know who here actually owns a comic starring LD's labelmate Purgatori. Oh they turned Lords of Acid CD art into a comic book, huh.
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Apr 18, 2016 21:52
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So when did it all start to get better towards the end of the 90s, or sooner/later?
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Apr 18, 2016 22:40
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Purgatori just had a new mini series like one year ago. I believe Dynamite owns all the Chaos characters except for Lady Death who is own by a company called Boundless that solicited a book called "Jungle Adventure - a series in the spirit of Sheena!" which ended up being loving pornography. That right there is the reason we will never carry anything that company publishes again.
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Apr 18, 2016 22:40
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Ultragonk posted:So when did it all start to get better towards the end of the 90s, or sooner/later? Like, as a single example: Kingdom Come, the definitive takedown of everything wrong with the 80s and 90s? 1996.
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Apr 18, 2016 22:56
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Ultragonk posted:So when did it all start to get better towards the end of the 90s, or sooner/later? In the extremely broadest sense, probably when Marvel rolled out the Ultimate line, but again nothing set in stone.
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Apr 18, 2016 22:59
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Madkal posted:In the extremely broadest sense, probably when Marvel rolled out the Ultimate line, but again nothing set in stone. Marvel Knights and the Ultimate line were the two initiatives at Marvel that really pushed them away from the 90's.
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Apr 18, 2016 23:02
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X-O posted:Wizard's letter pages did Twitter call outs from creators better in the '90s than Twitter does today. Larsen's on the money about the co-creator credit and all, but he's a dunce complaining about Brock's origin. Does he think it's dumb that Doom kicked Reed out of his room for telling him that he screwed up his calculations? Eddie Brock is a self-absorbed, petty, angry and irrational person. He is a bad guy. poo poo happened and rather than take any blame himself (and to be fair, while his hands weren't completely clean, he was still a victim of circumstance), he figured, "Well, that wouldn't have happened if Spider-Man hadn't screwed it all up." It's not logical, but it's a very real and honest reaction for a supervillain origin. It's like blaming a piece of furniture for stubbing your toe or blaming the traffic lights for you being late." I could have been on time for work, but the jackass in front of me took forever before he could make a left turn... but ignore the fact that I left home at the last second." Or more seriously, misogynists who beat or blame women for their own shortcomings. Honestly, when I saw Simpson on Jessica Jones, despite the character he was supposed to be, I came out of it thinking, "That is genuinely the best adaptation of Eddie Brock that I've ever seen." Which isn't a complimenting thing to say about one of my favorite comic characters, but I never found him fascinating because I thought he was a saint. It's never been brought up, but Eddie Brock's origin is the perfect counter to Peter Parker's. They each made a comparatively minor mistake based on personal gain that ended in a murderer destroying their lives. Rather than focus on the murderer, one goes, "This is all my fault!" and becomes a guilt-ridden hero while the other says, "This is all that guy's fault!" and becomes a villain and/or half-assed vigilante who lives the fact that he never learned his lesson.
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Apr 18, 2016 23:27
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I for one am just glad to know that Superman could bend adamantium.
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Apr 18, 2016 23:32
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Dismiss the 90's at your peril, Ultragonk!
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Apr 18, 2016 23:35
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Gavok posted:Larsen's on the money about the co-creator credit and all, but he's a dunce complaining about Brock's origin. Does he think it's dumb that Doom kicked Reed out of his room for telling him that he screwed up his calculations? Eddie Brock is a self-absorbed, petty, angry and irrational person. He is a bad guy. poo poo happened and rather than take any blame himself (and to be fair, while his hands weren't completely clean, he was still a victim of circumstance), he figured, "Well, that wouldn't have happened if Spider-Man hadn't screwed it all up." Speaking of Venom's origins and anti-hero flailings, I know it isn't really supported by the text, but I always felt that Eddie turning into an obnoxious wisecracker and trying his claw at superheroism were parts of Parker rubbing off on him via the symbiote. Someday someone at Marvel might make the mistake of letting me explore that in a story.
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Apr 18, 2016 23:41
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Gavok posted:It's never been brought up, but Eddie Brock's origin is the perfect counter to Peter Parker's. They each made a comparatively minor mistake based on personal gain that ended in a murderer destroying their lives. Rather than focus on the murderer, one goes, "This is all my fault!" and becomes a guilt-ridden hero while the other says, "This is all that guy's fault!" and becomes a villain and/or half-assed vigilante who lives the fact that he never learned his lesson. As much as I've read about Venom over the years I never really looked at him like that. That's a very interesting viewpoint. Travis343 posted:I for one am just glad to know that Superman could bend adamantium. An entire thread could be made around the ridiculous questions asked and answers given in Wizard's letter pages.
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Apr 18, 2016 23:48
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Teenage Fansub posted:Dismiss the 90's at your peril, Ultragonk! What do you like from the 90s?
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Apr 18, 2016 23:52
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Ultragonk posted:What do you like from the 90s? redbackground posted:DC had a fantastic 90s output: These are all solid books. Also just check out everything Vertigo published in the 90's.
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Apr 19, 2016 00:04
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Vertigo published a LOT of poo poo in the 90's.
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Apr 19, 2016 00:12
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As I remember things, '90s DC was actually great, with some glaring exceptions. It's'90s Marvel that you have to pick carefully through. Also, depending how you want to look at it, the Comics Nineties begin in either 1987 (near the beginning of the speculator boom, crossovers becoming A Thing, sex/violence Not For Kids comics start bleeding into the mainstream) or '93 (collapse of the speculator bubble, Maximum Carnage, Deadpool, Cable's first ongoing, the multiple unfunny Justice Leagues). They end around '97-98. The worst of it doesn't last very long, all told.
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Apr 19, 2016 00:31
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Ultragonk posted:So when did it all start to get better towards the end of the 90s, or sooner/later? Most of the things that were representative of the poor decisions of the 90s were undone by the late 90s. Spider-man was Peter Parker again. Batman was Bruce Wayne again. Superman was alive again. Holographic and foil covers went the way of the dodo. Most of the "extreme" characters were slowly left behind and forgotten. Those that survived are either favorites of guys who were reading comics during this time and who they loved enough to bring back, or characters that never really left and got good stories and good writers to keep them around. Related, what's the worst Spider-man story? Clone Saga (1994), Sins Past(2004), or One More Day(2007)?
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Apr 19, 2016 03:37
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CzarChasm posted:Related, what's the worst Spider-man story? Clone Saga (1994), Sins Past(2004), or One More Day(2007)?
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Apr 19, 2016 03:40
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redbackground posted:Chapter One Not even a question, this is it.
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Apr 19, 2016 03:42
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I think the clone saga would have been fine if it was about half as long. I really liked Ben Reilly. Plus Kaine managed to turn into an amazing character who's book was taken from us too soon.
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Apr 19, 2016 03:42
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CzarChasm posted:Most of the things that were representative of the poor decisions of the 90s were undone by the late 90s. Spider-man was Peter Parker again. Batman was Bruce Wayne again. Superman was alive again. Holographic and foil covers went the way of the dodo. Most of the "extreme" characters were slowly left behind and forgotten. Those that survived are either favorites of guys who were reading comics during this time and who they loved enough to bring back, or characters that never really left and got good stories and good writers to keep them around. The Superman is dead storyline was only a year, and it was pretty obvious that he was going to be back even when he died. The whole point of the Batman not being Bruce Wayne storyline was just how important it was that Bruce was Batman.
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Apr 19, 2016 03:43
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I'd agree that Chapter One is the worst. Though I tend to forget about it more often than not. Then for me it's a tossup between Sins Past and the whole spider totem bullshit.
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Apr 19, 2016 04:02
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redbackground posted:Chapter One Lurdiak posted:Not even a question, this is it. X-O posted:I'd agree that Chapter One is the worst. Though I tend to forget about it more often than not. Then for me it's a tossup between Sins Past and the whole spider totem bullshit. Never even heard of this before. So they just went and updated all the classic Spider-man stories because...It's easier than writing new stories? It would be a jumping on point for new readers? Computers didn't exist in the original stories and those are a key element to his origin?
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Apr 19, 2016 04:43
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