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So the tariffs will continue on foreign exports at exuberant rates, social inequality between different races and classes will never be addressed, corruption will continue to soar, the population will continue to swell towards unsustainable levels, the Amazon continues to get chipped away, new Presidents will seek trade wars with the rest of the hemisphere, and nationalists will continue to get dissapointed at international sports events, eh? Looks like a swollen, rotting banana of a republic if I ever saw one!
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Apr 18, 2016 21:17
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Grouchio posted:So the tariffs will continue on foreign exports at exuberant rates, social inequality between different races and classes will never be addressed, corruption will continue to soar, the population will continue to swell towards unsustainable levels, the Amazon continues to get chipped away, new Presidents will seek trade wars with the rest of the hemisphere, and nationalists will continue to get dissapointed at international sports events, eh? Yeah, we're pretty much part of the Americas.
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Apr 18, 2016 21:20
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Dias posted:Yeah, we're pretty much part of the Americas.
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Apr 18, 2016 21:22
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Edir Macedo will run for President and guide Brazil to a golden age, god willing. This post was funded by the Igreja Universal do Reino de Deus
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Apr 18, 2016 23:05
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:i live on a somewhat affluent neighbourhood and they are sending loving fireworks and hollering I'm surprised by this thread, because this is the kind of stuff (celebrating the impeachment) that I'd expect from brazilians posting on an american forums. But hey I guess this shows how out of touch I am with everything around me.
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Apr 19, 2016 00:46
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Also, ALSO, I recently did a Brazil political quiz and scored with policies most comparable with the PT, Commies and Socialists in that order. So why the gently caress is the PT run by the likes of loving Rouseff and Lula!? 
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Apr 19, 2016 00:50
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Grouchio posted:Also, ALSO, I recently did a Brazil political quiz and scored with policies most comparable with the PT, Commies and Socialists in that order. So why the gently caress is the PT run by the likes of loving Rouseff and Lula!? What do you think they've done that is incongruous with the PT?
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Apr 19, 2016 00:54
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Badger of Basra posted:What do you think they've done that is incongruous with the PT?
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Apr 19, 2016 00:57
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Grouchio posted:Horrendous amounts of corruption that could only be seen as maintaining the lovely class status-quo? Isn't that in theory everything they're against? Hell, I'm starting to see Chavez's ghost as the Latin Bernie Sanders. First of all, what the gently caress does that even mean. Second of all yeah but reality is different from your party's political program when you're not in office. They didn't improve tax progressivity either but that's not because they don't want to. Also Dilma hasn't even been personally implicated in any of this corruption. If she had actually done anything, it would have come out by now.
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Apr 19, 2016 01:00
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Grouchio posted:So the tariffs will continue on foreign exports at exuberant rates, social inequality between different races and classes will never be addressed, corruption will continue to soar, the population will continue to swell towards unsustainable levels, the Amazon continues to get chipped away, new Presidents will seek trade wars with the rest of the hemisphere, and nationalists will continue to get dissapointed at international sports events, eh? do you know the history of the term "banana republic"?
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Apr 19, 2016 01:00
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Badger of Basra posted:First of all, what the gently caress does that even mean. GhostofJohnMuir posted:do you know the history of the term "banana republic"? The origin refers to countries in Latin America dependent on selling bananas to the US starting in the 10s and 20s as their main export, right? quote:Banana republic or banana state is a pejorative political science term for politically unstable countries in Latin America whose economies are largely dependent on exporting a limited-resource product, e.g. bananas. It typically has stratified social classes, including a large, impoverished working class and a ruling plutocracy of business, political, and military elites. This politico-economic oligarchy controls the primary-sector productions to exploit the country's economy. So wouldn't that describe Brazil quite well right now? Grouchio fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Apr 19, 2016 |
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Apr 19, 2016 01:05
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Grouchio posted:Then what the hell is going on? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_d_etat Negostrike fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Apr 19, 2016 |
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Apr 19, 2016 01:09
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Grouchio posted:So wouldn't that describe Brazil quite well right now? Uh, no? Like maybe 25% of that relates to Brazil.
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Apr 19, 2016 01:11
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:Has the US pronounced anything on the issue? You'd think Hillary would say sometuing about a female president being ousted, eh? well actually https://theintercept.com/2016/04/18/after-vote-to-remove-brazils-president-key-opposition-figure-holds-meetings-in-washington/ quote:
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Apr 19, 2016 01:15
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Badger of Basra posted:First of all, what the gently caress does that even mean. I don't know but if there's some kind of brazilian political right bingo I'm sure Grouchio scored some mad points with this
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Apr 19, 2016 01:32
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Symbolic Butt posted:I don't know but if there's some kind of brazilian political right bingo I'm sure Grouchio scored some mad points with this
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Apr 19, 2016 01:36
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I have zero idea what that statement is supposed to mean. Is it an insult to Bernie Sanders? To Hugo Chavez? To both?
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Apr 19, 2016 01:38
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https://thump.vice.com/pt_br/track/eduardo-cunha-desde-1991-esperando-ser-preso
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Apr 19, 2016 01:43
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Grouchio posted:I'm a Sanders supporter. Why would I identify as right-wing to anybody? brazilian right-wing people mention Hugo Chavez for no reason with a drop of a hat
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Apr 19, 2016 01:46
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Symbolic Butt posted:I'm surprised by this thread, because this is the kind of stuff (celebrating the impeachment) that I'd expect from brazilians posting on an american forums. But hey I guess this shows how out of touch I am with everything around me. I saw a lot of that on /pol/ but i just trolled the threads by calling temer and cunha zionist shills
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Apr 19, 2016 01:52
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Symbolic Butt posted:brazilian right-wing people mention Hugo Chavez for no reason with a drop of a hat
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Apr 19, 2016 01:55
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For reals, I thought Tiririca had left a long time ago.
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Apr 19, 2016 02:36
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Grouchio posted:The origin refers to countries in Latin America dependent on selling bananas to the US starting in the 10s and 20s as their main export, right? They were dependent on selling banana's because large American fruit trading companies took political and economic control of said countries backed by the threat, and occasionally the action, of the US military. It's not an appropriate label for Brazil in 2016.
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Apr 19, 2016 03:00
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Symbolic Butt posted:I'm surprised by this thread, because this is the kind of stuff (celebrating the impeachment) that I'd expect from brazilians posting on an american forums. But hey I guess this shows how out of touch I am with everything around me. You're looking for The Guardian comments.
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Apr 19, 2016 03:03
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HardDisk posted:For reals, I thought Tiririca had left a long time ago. Tiririca the illiterate clown??? please tell me he isn't involved in Lava Jato. Not Tiririca 
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Apr 19, 2016 03:17
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SexyBlindfold posted:Tiririca the illiterate clown??? please tell me he isn't involved in Lava Jato. Not Tiririca AFAIK nope, but he voted "yes" for the impeachment, which is bad enough. Oh well...
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Apr 19, 2016 03:50
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SexyBlindfold posted:Tiririca the illiterate clown??? please tell me he isn't involved in Lava Jato. Not Tiririca He isn't, somebody told the feds that was offered something like R$500000 in kickbacks and Tiririca went apeshit telling everybody to gently caress off A lot of people mocked him back then but he has a spotless participation record, much better than a lot of our ~~political luminaries~~
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Apr 19, 2016 03:51
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My father hates Lula, Dilma and the Pt with the blazing fury of a thousand sons. He'd disown me if he knew I actually think PT is way too moderate. So he's been salivating for the impeachment for months now. After the vote yesterday? His joy is gone. "It was like the worst aspects of a soccer game riot and an evangelical faith-healing cult. I felt ill." He told me on skype just now. I guess it finally dawned on him what 'his' side stands for, and he doesn't know where to go. He can't go left because he's been conditioned for a lifetime to despise the commies, and can't join the wave because he's an educated, agnostic person. so he's just spent, frustrated, and worried.
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Apr 19, 2016 04:01
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Grouchio posted:Horrendous amounts of corruption that could only be seen as maintaining the lovely class status-quo? Isn't that in theory everything they're against? Hell, I'm starting to see Chavez's ghost as the Latin Bernie Sanders. Saying the PT practice horrendous amounts of corruption is very big stretch. Some people PT did get involved on the schemes (like Senator Delcidio do Amaral) but they were not the most involved in corruption by a long shot. PT former allies like PMDB and PP did most of the corruption that is now being brought to light by the Lava Jato Operations. The lower house president, Eduardo Cunha, is by far the most corrupt one. If you think Dilma is now suffering because she is involved in corruption you are getting the picture upside down. Dilma is being booted from the presidency by the corrupt politicians from parties that were allies until recently precisely because she refused to help them cover up their corruption or to take part in corruption herself. Eduardo Cunha, for example, started his crusade against Dilma because she fired some of people he controlled at Furnas that were stealing public money there and funelling it towards him,
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Apr 19, 2016 04:02
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Grouchio posted:Then what the hell is going on? lol this guy Now, I know you guys don't study Latin American history, but there are significant and massive differences within political frameworks and political structures that, compared to the somewhat straightforward way the US history is often seen and presented, it makes for a terribly complex and shades-of-gray type of narrative. The Worker's Party (PT) is basically paying the price for being elected on the premise of being different than everybody but doing the same poo poo while trying to do a minimum of social transformation, which, in Brazil, causes massive loving reactions. You would be surprised that, while this party engaged in corrupt behavior, it managed to fight hunger in a level never before seen. Another example: Getúlio Vargas, while a dictator that ordered arrests and torture against many different political factions, created some of the most effective and long lasting advances in social issues back in the 30s and 40s, such as women's suffrage, a complete set of labor laws and a national economic program which sought to bring a full industrialization process in Brazil. What happened to PT was that Dilma is a pretty loving awful political operator that got seriously loving blindsided by a terribly loving awful economic moment which, while trying to keep the boat steady, went to hug the policies of the liberal right (liberal in the sense europeans and us use) and basically threw the popular base of the party to the wind, while never getting the actual heartfelt support of a broad coalition to push for economic measures. With her popularity tanking due to austerity measures and the lovely economic outlook, her lack of support among the legislative branch and her insistence to defend the investigations against politicians in the Lava Jato case - because everything indicates that she is a basically honest person - the government got itself in a shitstorm and the opposition banded together thanks to her catastrophic popularity to make her GTFO.
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Apr 19, 2016 04:16
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I...had been looking at this the wrong way the entire time. Things just got worse for Brazil, and all this time (since the World Cup) I had been rooting for Dilma to get kicked out. I need to read more Latin American history.
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Apr 19, 2016 04:23
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Grouchio posted:I...had been looking at this the wrong way the entire time. Things just got worse for Brazil, and all this time (since the World Cup) I had been rooting for Dilma to get kicked out. I need to read more Latin American history. If it helps, you are not alone. So many of my friends who were marching wearing yellow and green (because if you are against corruption, the CBF's logo is just the thing you want to wear over your patriotic heart!) are getting a bit freaked out.
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Apr 19, 2016 04:34
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Kanthulhu posted:Saying the PT practice horrendous amounts of corruption is very big stretch. Some people PT did get involved on the schemes (like Senator Delcidio do Amaral) but they were not the most involved in corruption by a long shot. PT former allies like PMDB and PP did most of the corruption that is now being brought to light by the Lava Jato Operations. The lower house president, Eduardo Cunha, is by far the most corrupt one. dont kid yourself. PT's political campaigns, just like everybody else's, were financed pretty much by grafts and bribes paid by construction firms with government contracts, and it's preposterous to think that a political creature like lula (or even dilma, an inexperienced as she is) was unaware of what his campaign treasurer was doing. btw, delcídio was a minister under itamar franco during the transition period before FHC and was nominated a director of petrobras under FHC. if you really want to learn about PT corruption you should research about the late 90's PT mayorships in the são paulo state interior, plenty of shady trash, fuel and public light deals that were used to funnel money to the party. Again, nothing original, everybody did it back then (and it's only slightly better now). The majoritary PT faction (AUNL - the one that lula, dirceu and others are from) is just the same corrupt poo poo that policywise is less lovely. but yeah, in the corruption olympics, PT is a secondary power, PMDB is like if the USA and Soviet Union could compete under the same flag.
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Apr 19, 2016 04:40
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I frankly find it hard to believe that Dilma and PT in general weren't partaking in corrupt activities if somebody as high up as the lower house president is apparently the most corrupt guy in the country. I know corruption, I live in loving Venezuela, and the way it works is that somebody higher than you is looking the other way while you do something you shouldn't. Dilma can feign ignorance all she wants but by not doing anything to stop corruption she's a conspirator to the crime. While yeah, Brazil could do with a purge of every single public officer it has much like Venezuela does, seeing corruption as something that doesn't bleed through party lines is kind of naive.
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Apr 19, 2016 09:03
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To get elected and stay in power and implement its project, PT bought the support of a whole lot of corrupts, including politicians, capitalists, big landowners etc. They bought those people and payed for it with public money, either in cash (stolen cash) or public jobs in the government, state companies (like petrobras...), contracts. This allowed then to have the support they needed in congress and in the elections and nearly endless funds for massive campaigns (there are a lot of proof already that Dilma's campaigns were fueled with money stolen from the government through petrobras and Belo Monte and other means). Everyone does that around here? Maybe. But they surely did it anyway, and in a very impressive scale, and has been doing it for more than a decade. If you dont know this yet, your are very deluded. And if we know, Dilma knew too. And Lula, of course. And Dilma's rejection has nothing to do with a reaction against her social programs like someone said above. These were mostly implemented by Lula and Lula is our most popular president in history. Dilma's rejection comes from failing to keep these programs, from failing to keep her campaign promises, from the very dire economic situation we are sinking in and from the widespread notion that this government is corrupt to the bones (which is correct). That's why she is currently unpopular with most of the poor, the middle class, and the rich. Its only the leftist middle class (mostly college students, artists, journalists etc) that remains in her side (which seems to be the case of most brazilians in SA). What just happened here, in a nutshell: PT lost control over a good chunk of these politicians they used to have on their payroll (Cunha, specially), and these started to conspire and act against Dilma. And then lost support from the population (for failing miserably and playing too dirty, even for our standards), which prompted the rest of its allies to change sides too Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Apr 19, 2016 |
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Apr 19, 2016 13:12
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A guy can dream, but the impeachment presents a huge opportunity for PT to capitalise on its time out of power, trim the dead weight, and come back during the election with big ideas. Especially if Cunha et al proceeds with any kind of "mãos limpa" pardon scheme that most proimpeachment Brazilians, at peak naivety, claim is complete fiction and simply couldn't happen. The only problem is how they'd fund any future campaign at this point. What I don't understand is why PT gets the lion's share of the idealist young leftist support these days when PSOL is a thing. Are PSOL lovely in some ways or is it simply the lack of revolutionary iconography?
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Apr 19, 2016 13:41
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hoiyes posted:What I don't understand is why PT gets the lion's share of the idealist young leftist support these days when PSOL is a thing. Are PSOL lovely in some ways or is it simply the lack of revolutionary iconography? I don't know if it is any of those things or not, but it could also be some kind of a bandwagon mentality. I.E. "PSOL or any other the far left parties aren't going to win anyway and PT seems left enough and can actually win, so I'm going to vote for PT".
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Apr 19, 2016 13:57
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PSOL is pretty good and they have some decent names around the country for the city elections happening later in the year, it is just that they have a very small presence in the houses and the federal sphere, so they don't really show up in these conversations.
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Apr 19, 2016 14:06
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ZearothK posted:PSOL is pretty good and they have some decent names around the country for the city elections happening later in the year, it is just that they have a very small presence in the houses and the federal sphere, so they don't really show up in these conversations. Yeah, I mean this makes sense for the general population, but small presence isn't a problem for young idealists, who usually would flock to the most left party regardless of size. Maybe it's an intergenerational fight thing. A lot of them seem very preoccupied with the dictatorship so they take up with the historical opposition, PT. It would explain the invocation of Dilma as symbol also. People are obsessed with labels, and I guess PSOL doesn't really come with the whole pre-packaged "PUC Comunista" shtick that PT does.
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Apr 19, 2016 14:16
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Politicians and parties fall fr their mistakes, not their sins, Elias. Calling PT's level of corruption abnormal is remarkably blinkered, especially since the main reason the president is being ousted is because she refused to play ball with one of the vilest politicians in Congress. Crooked campaign financing is something that has been with us since the new regime started; local magnate Mario Garnero, owner of Brasilinvest, describes running Caixa 2 (illegal financing) for Tancredo Neves' presidential run right out of the military regime's twilight in his book Jogo Sujo ("Dirty Game") and the only repercussion he got came not from the law, but rival politicians who wanted the cash instead, and started blocking his projects on flimsy excuses. Right after Tancredo died, his successor Jose Sarney started a 'massive' railroad project to connect the north and south of the country ("Ferrovia Norte-Sul') that barely laid any track but was instrumental is creating a war chest for PMDB's candidates that no one else could match, and securing their grip on the Legislative Houses early on. Fernando Henrique's entire government was predicated on the alliance with figures like Antonio Carlos Magalhães, former appointed (not elected) governor during the dictatorship and up to his eyeballs in graft with the OAS company, which was headed by his son-in-law. ACM actually bugged the results panel of the Senate in order to learn how everyone was voting during secret meetings, so he could tell who was voting as bribed and who had taken the money and voted against him anyway. Two guesses as to whether he lost his mandate, and the first one doesn't count. Let's not forget the whole rush for approving the Re-election ammendment, a naked crooked deal in which everyone suddenly changed their minds after Fernando Henrique's heir apparent, Luis Eduardo Magalhaes (ACM's oldest son) fell dead while getting in shape to run for president. Given the short deadline, they had to buy every petty soiled congressperson under the sun, including infamous un-punishable huckster Paulo Maluf. Just look at what happened to the old PFL party the moment it was removed from the government's udder. It went from being the core technocratic vote-herding party besides PMDB to a minor presence, its numbers poached by the nascent evangelical block. Let's be clear here: PT is crooked. It would be so even if it had not ejected every last 'radical' back in 2002 to pacify the media (fat lot good it did). But if it had played footsie with Eduardo Cunha and saved his corrupt henchmen as he required, Dilma would still be in power, with the same congressmen who invoked God and family to oust her singing her praises instead. If it had a figure like former Attorney General Geraldo Brindeiro, who killed hundreds of corruption probes in the 90s while the media looked the other way, it would still be in power. (No hyperbole here. Of all 626 probes that came his way during his tenure, only 60 were investigated. That's 9% for you.) Dilma fell because her government was weakened by the economic shitshow and the opposition saw an opportunity. Nothing more, nothing less. Anyone leveling the same charges at a PSDB government would be laughed out congress and tarred and feathered in the media. Hell, Sao Paulo governor Geraldo Alckmin (PSDB) was being hailed as a bold leader for his water rationing program last time i was there...after his mismanagement of the drought caused said rationing in the first place. Golden boy Aecio Neves' name poppped up in seven separate accounts by interrogated crooks cutting deals with the investigation, and nothing is going to happen to him. And that's not even mentioning Temer and Cunha. If corruption is the motivator here, there are sure a ton of slam-dunk cases being tossed aside. I don't see anyone seriously defending campaign reforms, or a larger constitutional congress. The other side has just been away from the teat for too long, and there are a lot of things to loot: the Pre-Sal fields, access to new international vultures like Goldman Sachs (whose local dealer is already being tapped for a ministry), you name it.
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Apr 19, 2016 14:21
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