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Seriously though, all of these detachments and formations and datasheets are confusing as gently caress even for veteran players and it's just not the right way to build a ruleset. GW is out of their minds with this poo poo and I hope the next edition wipes the slate clean but the chances of that happening are approximately zero. There's like a 90% chance that it'll be Age of the Emperor. 10% chance that the convoluted bullshit stays the same or gets even worse.
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Apr 19, 2016 16:42
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Apr 19, 2016 16:46
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Are people seriously defending the 'free rapid fire ID gun dude for only $30' ITT?
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Apr 19, 2016 16:46
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Apr 19, 2016 16:48
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Anyone who rolls with a Knight list and thinks people should treat them like a 'normal' list and are unreasonable for differentiaring can gently caress right off as they're everything wrong with this hobby. Run Knights, but dont get mad if people don't want to play you.
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Apr 19, 2016 16:48
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I like the formation and the flexibility, for one thing it's given us back 'Stealer Cults. But yeah, the implementation does resemble the product of a design strategy written on cardboard by a hobo in a bin.
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Apr 19, 2016 16:49
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Apr 19, 2016 16:51
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Phyresis posted:Seriously though, all of these detachments and formations and datasheets are confusing as gently caress even for veteran players and it's just not the right way to build a ruleset. GW is out of their minds with this poo poo and I hope the next edition wipes the slate clean but the chances of that happening are approximately zero. There's like a 90% chance that it'll be Age of the Emperor. 10% chance that the convoluted bullshit stays the same or gets even worse. It totally needs a teardown and rewrite, but I don't trust GW to do it. They had their chance with AoS and blew it.
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Apr 19, 2016 16:59
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Well let me put on my optimist/delusional/apologist hat real quick... maybe they just punted on Age of Sigmar so that they could focus on the game that actually makes them money? Maybe they wanted to discontinue Fantasy altogether but this compromise lets them extract value out of their remaining stock while trickling out new models that some people inexplicably purchase. HAHAHAHAHAHA yeah right
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Apr 19, 2016 17:02
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TKIY posted:Are people seriously defending the 'free rapid fire ID gun dude for only $30' ITT? It was a 30th anniversary model available in limited numbers for one day. I genuinely don't care. I would care about someone using the rules without the model. Mine will arrive in the post tomorrow. Lord Twisted posted:Anyone who rolls with a Knight list and thinks people should treat them like a 'normal' list and are unreasonable for differentiaring can gently caress right off as they're everything wrong with this hobby. Run Knights, but dont get mad if people don't want to play you. There's a slight difference between individuals preferring not to fight that army and saying "these are the new rules, you're excluded." Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Apr 19, 2016 |
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Apr 19, 2016 17:04
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Nice meltadown, everyone.
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Apr 19, 2016 17:10
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You want to see a meltdown? You want a loving meltdown? *leaves Finecast in a car*
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Apr 19, 2016 17:13
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I peeked in the fantasy thread rq and it's pretty funny stuff. Spearchukkas should be stronger the blacker they are, what do you mean that's racist??? Poor richyp: richyp posted:Serious-post: lilljonas posted:Ok. Sit down, take a deep breath, and listen. Yeah man that's how we all felt. Like we thought something was missing. Nope, that's how it is. The mind boggles. Elfface posted:Don't forget that if you're massively outnumbered you can also choose to have a single unit survive until the end for victory. Like the ones that can bury themselves for most of the game. Holy loly, I forgot about the burrowing things. This whole quote is hilarious though. Not making fun of you Fantasy guys at all, this whole situation is the essence of tragicomedy. Are you guys excited to see GW's vision for the future of 40k? I know I am!
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Apr 19, 2016 17:16
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It's already happening to 40k. That's what these masssive formation releases with free units attached are leading too. Anyway, I broke on 40k back during NOVA when I realized I couldn't keep up with the ridiculous new releases and that in order to be competitive you MUST invest into constantly updating the army. That's what it takes to win tournaments, actual money investment. It's not about playing well anymore, it's about being the most up-to-date and finding the most ridiculous combination/loophole and dialing that to 11.
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Apr 19, 2016 17:27
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E: Inexplicable DP
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Apr 19, 2016 17:27
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I do like that GW really embraced "Do whatever you want! Have fun! Bring your whole army to the table if that sounds like a cool thing! Ignore the rules if you want!" in the book, because I'm more about having fun and drinking beer than being super competitive, and if you're playing with a buddy then by all means you should invent your own scenarios and try out really wacky unbound army lists and stuff. But they kinda tossed the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to balance, its like they really just threw their hands up and said "gently caress it, poo poo's too complicated" Like, Fantasy getting rid of points isn't because lists without points are somehow more balanced, its just GW sucks at trying to find the appropriate points cost for balance and simply doesn't care anymore. Gapey Joe Stalin posted:You want to see a meltdown? You want a loving meltdown? 
Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Apr 19, 2016 |
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Apr 19, 2016 17:30
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Boon posted:It's already happening to 40k. That's what these masssive formation releases with free units attached are leading too. You realize the constant model churn had been going on since, I dunno, forever? Every time a new codex comes out regardless of Formations people find the best thing and buy for it for tournaments. It's a given that people with more money than sense do this, as they do it in every other game too. It's not that strategy and skill don't play into it--I spent exactly $0 on models for my GT this year and had a solid record at the end. Formations may have accelerated it a bit but it's always been there and likely will be in just about every game with army updates.
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Apr 19, 2016 17:38
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PierreTheMime posted:You realize the constant model churn had been going on since, I dunno, forever? Every time a new codex comes out regardless of Formations people find the best thing and buy for it for tournaments. It's a given that people with more money than sense do this, as they do it in every other game too. It's not that strategy and skill don't play into it--I spent exactly $0 on models for my GT this year and had a solid record at the end. Formations may have accelerated it a bit but it's always been there and likely will be in just about every game with army updates. nice meltadown
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Apr 19, 2016 17:38
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I liked formations when it was the apoc ones and you bought the units and paid some points to make them their formation. That was cool.
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Apr 19, 2016 17:43
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PierreTheMime posted:You realize the constant model churn had been going on since, I dunno, forever? Every time a new codex comes out regardless of Formations people find the best thing and buy for it for tournaments. It's a given that people with more money than sense do this, as they do it in every other game too. It's not that strategy and skill don't play into it--I spent exactly $0 on models for my GT this year and had a solid record at the end. Formations may have accelerated it a bit but it's always been there and likely will be in just about every game with army updates. i bought a whole new army to best general a gt what now fight me
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Apr 19, 2016 17:45
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Phyresis posted:I peeked in the fantasy thread rq and it's pretty funny stuff. Never really played Fantasy just bought the box for some Elves to paint (it was cheaper than buying the separate models I think) a few years ago. I was seeing if anyone would come to defend AoS. quote:Are you guys excited to see GW's vision for the future of 40k? I know I am! The future of 40k is 30k isn't it? i.e. remove all those pesky non-marines from the game.
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Apr 19, 2016 17:49
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Sure, you they CALL Imperial Knights their own faction, but we know the truth. They're a single unit. They treat different wargear options as if they were different unit types, then put them into a book. The new renegade knights showed you could do that entire book on one page. So Oldhammer is just removing a few units rather than one whole faction if you ask me. 
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Apr 19, 2016 17:50
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Remove Nids imo. Put them out of their misery
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Apr 19, 2016 17:52
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7th is pretty great other than some missions being broken turds and the gobs and gobs of formations, detachments and other DLC detritus.
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Apr 19, 2016 17:53
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I realize that people who know all the latest rules and have the latest stuff will have a slight edge (if their opponent is unfamiliar). I also realize that it's always been like this and that 40k was never balanced. However, it's the scope of it now. The disparity is huge and the amount of time and money investment necessary is unprecedented if you want to be a top player. The meta, so to speak, is unlike it's ever been. Let's look at this for example. Can an Ork army, even with a new and powerful codex, ever be expected to compete in a tournament setting where the 'Imperial faction' has and can do anything it wants with no real weaknesses to speak of simply because of the vast combinations it's capable of? The guy that won the Adepticon GT - he had what, 5 flavors of SM? Can Orks, Tyranids, Necrons, etc... ever be realistically expected to be able to combat that? Honestly, if I had to pick out hte singular problem with 40k, it's the massive growth of the 'Imperial Faction' I think it's more the idea of a special snowflake model with game changing ability that everyone and their brother will convert and use the rules for with no equivalent for other factions just because VVV Boon fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Apr 19, 2016 |
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Apr 19, 2016 17:53
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I like formations. Obviously you've got the stupid overpowered ones, but I really like the ones that let you do neat things (Retaliation Cadre for instance, paradropping Battlesuits is really appealing to me. Or weird thematic ones like the Electro-Priest formation in Cult Mech). I just hope GW realises to tone it down a bit, go for the more thematic formations over the "lol free poo poo everywhere ones" (Also, still don't see the fuss about the Anniversary Marine. It's one gun on a regular Marine. Maybe should have had a small points cost, still not the biggest threat in the world.)
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Apr 19, 2016 17:55
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Such is the power of the Emperor of Mankind. Bask in His glory and repent, for His justice is swift and merciful.
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Apr 19, 2016 17:56
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Zaphod42 posted:Battle brothers means you fight next to each other against shared enemies. Genestealer cults don't convince space marines to fight along side 'nids, they just show up as a scouting party and create a psychic beacon to tell the rest of the fleet "there's food over here". Don't see how that would possibly count as battle brothers. Genestealer cults inject Tyranid DNA in people and make them work towards Tyranid ends. I've read books where they did it to humans, Tau and Space Marines, presumably they could do it to Orks and Eldar too.
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Apr 19, 2016 17:57
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wait 30k doesnt have Tau right?
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Apr 19, 2016 17:57
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Boon posted:Let's look at this for example. Can an Ork army, even with a new and powerful codex, ever be expected to compete in a tournament setting where the 'Imperial faction' has and can do anything it wants with no real weaknesses to speak of simply because of the vast combinations it's capable of? The guy that won the Adepticon GT - he had what, 5 flavors of SM? Can Orks, Tyranids, Necrons, etc... ever be realistically expected to be able to combat that? At the Flying Monkey GT this last weekend, there were only two Imperium armies in the top ten (9 and 10). Orks came in at #6. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/197uoIYJvSVb9Hv8RGzEy9NwwrhvLXWVA_XSpNNV1g4A/edit#gid=0 edit: Necrons at #5 and #8
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Apr 19, 2016 17:58
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Phyresis posted:Such is the power of the Emperor of Mankind. Bask in His glory and repent, for His justice is swift and merciful. you seriously got some bug in your rear end huh? Anyway, how are The Eldar Prism tanks? I like they way they look and wonder if they are useful.
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Apr 19, 2016 17:59
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Here's 500 more pictures from the Flying Monkey GT courtesy of our TO, Troy. From Friday Night's Beerhammer through Saturday Night's Painting Competitions. https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6wchi2Keyt2Um91aHF0REk5UUU&usp=sharing Not sure where Sunday's pictures and awards are. I'll poke around.
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Apr 19, 2016 18:02
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Hihohe posted:you seriously got some bug in your rear end huh? Begone, foul heretic. Your words have no power here. My armor is contempt. My shield is disgust. My sword is hatred. IN THE EMPEROR'S NAME, LET NONE SURVIVE.
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Apr 19, 2016 18:03
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Your sickness has but one cure, and I shall deliver it. FOR THE EMPEROR!
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Apr 19, 2016 18:07
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boom boom boom posted:Genestealer cults inject Tyranid DNA in people and make them work towards Tyranid ends. I've read books where they did it to humans, Tau and Space Marines, presumably they could do it to Orks and Eldar too. Sorta, but those people would then become part of the genestealer cult. Ghosar Quintus already has lots of first-generation mostly-human genestealers; those are what you're talking about. No part of that means that a Hive Tyrant would fight alongside a Space Marine Captain, ever. Under any circumstance pretty much. It'd be pretty sweet if they put out some Tau or Eldar genestealer models, but that's not the same thing as making them full battle brothers as factions. I wouldn't mind Genestealers getting their own full sub-codex even. And like I said, genestealers could be allied with the Imperium, that's cool. But Tyranids overall shouldn't be allied with anybody.
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Apr 19, 2016 18:07
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Hihohe posted:
They're cool. Like the other good parts of the Eldar codex, they're fun to play without being egregiously overpowered or too weak to be worth while.
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Apr 19, 2016 18:07
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Tuxedo Jack posted:At the Flying Monkey GT this last weekend, there were only two Imperium armies in the top ten (9 and 10). Orks came in at #6. Wait, are you anecdotally disputing me on this one? Look at the results across the board - Adepticon, LVO, and NOVA, and whatever else you want to look at. Dominated by SM of any flavor, then Eldar, then a couple of Daemon, Necron, Tyranids and Tau. Necrons are a powerful army, but they aren't very flexible in comparison to Imperial or Eldar armies. Tyranids have one build and one build only that's seen over and over (flying Hive Tyrant with that FW shrouded guy and some spores for non-troop troops).
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Apr 19, 2016 18:08
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ACCEPT OUR DOMINION. REAP OUR MALEDICTION. WELCOME TO OBLIVION.
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Apr 19, 2016 18:08
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Boon posted:Wait, are you anecdotally disputing me on this one? Look at the results across the board - Adepticon, LVO, and NOVA, and whatever else you want to look at. I'm saying not a lot of people brought Space Marines to this GT, and the meta was really weird. I'm saying that taking SM is not an auto-win.
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Apr 19, 2016 18:10
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7th Edition is an incomprehensible mess that rewards unhealthy buying habits in pursuit of profit at the expense of the company's long-term health.
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Apr 19, 2016 18:11
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