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Cythereal posted:Nope, but she will leave the party with all her gear after the point of no return in Suldanessellar if she doesn't like you enough. And if Imoen's in the party, Chloe takes Imoen with her due to her magnetic demigoddess lesbian kensai personality. That's just pathetic. Who the gently caress would actually use that mod?
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Apr 20, 2016 15:28
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Cythereal posted:Nope, but she will leave the party with all her gear after the point of no return in Suldanessellar if she doesn't like you enough. And if Imoen's in the party, Chloe takes Imoen with her due to her magnetic demigoddess lesbian kensai personality. Somebody was comparing BG1NPC Project companions commenting on events to this? 
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Apr 20, 2016 15:31
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Woolie Wool posted:Somebody was comparing BG1NPC Project companions commenting on events to this? Even in the modding community, Chloe is infamous. She and Saerileth are usually the two examples held up as "Modders, DO NOT DO THIS." Kavak posted:That's just pathetic. Who the gently caress would actually use that mod? Did I mention she has 25 Dex out of the box and is a Kensai? And not just any Kensai, she trained with the true Kensai, a mystical clan who welcomed her into their ranks. IIRC, she also cutscene-kills Anomen if you romance her because Anomen is just that homophobic and a rapist (according to the mod).
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Apr 20, 2016 15:36
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Cythereal posted:
Are we absolutely sure this isn't a joke? I want to download this mod just to leave her to rot in Irenicus' Dungeon.
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Apr 20, 2016 15:42
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I feel so... sensual Anyway I got mad about avenger's being bugged and started over. I'm going to go berserker and try to solo the game with the Sword of Berserking as long as I can. Wish me luck.
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Apr 20, 2016 15:46
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Kavak posted:Are we absolutely sure this isn't a joke? Chloe was one of the very first NPC mods, back before the modding community for the games coalesced, and I have never heard of anyone unironically liking her. At least in my case, the first NPC mod I made, I made while I was in high school and I know it's awful-to-mediocre writing, and way WAY too special. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Apr 20, 2016 |
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Apr 20, 2016 15:49
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Kavak posted:Are we absolutely sure this isn't a joke? She'd probably appear in the final battle instead of Irenicus, at level 99 with 100 magic resistance and -20 THAC0 and AC, considering everything else said about this mod.
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Apr 20, 2016 15:49
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Cythereal posted:Chloe was one of the very first NPC mods, back before the modding community for the games coalesced, and I have never heard of anyone unironically liking her. That would explain a lot. Since you seem familiar with the mod scene, what's the overall impression of the Imoen Romance Mod? Are most folks skeezed out? Do people argue that it's not technically incest? Do people defend parts of the mod not related to sister-loving?
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Apr 20, 2016 16:02
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Kavak posted:That would explain a lot. I'm not too in touch with the modding community anymore - I made two NPC mods (Darian and Valerie), and am off-site friends with the primary admins of Spellhold Studios and Gibberlings 3, who are currently badgering me to go back and finish Valerie's BG2 component, so my finger on the community's pulse isn't up to date. That being said... Most folks prefer to not acknowledge that the Imoen Romance exists, and it's usually the third after Chloe and Saerileth on the list of bad examples in the modding community, both for the subject matter and for a lot of the really bad writing and deeply sketchy parts of the mod (you can rape Imoen). However, the Imoen Romance has a small but very vocal and dedicated fanbase who tend to go wherever the mod is being publicly lambasted in the modding community to defend it.
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Apr 20, 2016 16:09
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I have a confession to make: Back in January I downloaded the Romance Mod to look at it in NearInfinity. According to the site a new team took over at some point so I don't know how much of the original version that got posted about here way back when is still in there (A lot of the dialogue seems to be there, but I think and really, really hope it's junk data), but there were two parts I did like: Jaheira's reaction to the whole thing (ERGH, ICK, BLEARG) and a part in Throne of Bhaal where the spirit of Imoen's mother is summoned by the Solar to tell her story. If I could somehow excise that from the rest of the mod, I would, because it was actually nice character development.
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Apr 20, 2016 16:23
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The new team made an effort to clean things up, that much I know, but I've no idea how much work they actually put in doing so. I do know that one of my friends in question was approached about helping code it, and she did until she hit the "here's an option to rape Imoen" scene, at which point she said nope and handed everything back with instructions to never speak to her again.
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Apr 20, 2016 16:26
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Cythereal posted:The new team made an effort to clean things up, that much I know, but I've no idea how much work they actually put in doing so. I do know that one of my friends in question was approached about helping code it, and she did until she hit the "here's an option to rape Imoen" scene, at which point she said nope and handed everything back with instructions to never speak to her again. Good for her.
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Apr 20, 2016 16:28
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Kavak posted:Good for her. If it's any consolation, for a long time I was a staff member at SHS (and might still be, even though I haven't been there in over a year), and we developed an unofficial set of criteria for shooting down mod NPC ideas at a glance even before we started really looking at the character: 1. No rape, of or by the NPC. 2. No underage characters. 2a. For God's sake no romance with underage characters. 3. No incest. 4. No Bhaalspawn. 5. No stats above natural limits for the race. 6. No forcing dialogue options or actions for the player (do-this-or-I-leave is fine, as long as you have the option to say no, bye). 7. No killing Bioware NPCs. 8. No unique class/kit. 9. No spoiling plot events (i.e. knowing that Yoshimo is working for Irenicus or that Imoen is a Bhaalspawn). 10. No personal items stronger than anything the player can reasonably obtain (nothing as powerful as the ring of gaxx or carsomyr, for example, much less anything stronger).
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Apr 20, 2016 16:42
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Cythereal posted:If it's any consolation, for a long time I was a staff member at SHS (and might still be, even though I haven't been there in over a year), and we developed an unofficial set of criteria for shooting down mod NPC ideas at a glance even before we started really looking at the character: So, how many did you have to shoot down?
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Apr 20, 2016 16:44
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e X posted:So, how many did you have to shoot down? All of them for sure.
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Apr 20, 2016 16:48
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e X posted:So, how many did you have to shoot down? I'd say... twenty or thirty? The really bad ones tended to pop up in the mod ideas subforum and get shouted down before they applied for hosting/a subforum for the mod.
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Apr 20, 2016 16:48
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Unless someone makes a Planescape dev approved Dak'kon, Morte, or Nordom follower mod I don't think I'm ever going to touch one. On another topic, is the Unseeing Eye quest worth the trouble if I just want the Gauntlets of Dexterity in the ghoul den? Having to use Carsomyr means giving up a good deal of AC in the long run, and the only thing I'd use with a shield at this point is Crom Faeyr.
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Apr 20, 2016 16:54
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Cythereal posted:If it's any consolation, for a long time I was a staff member at SHS (and might still be, even though I haven't been there in over a year), and we developed an unofficial set of criteria for shooting down mod NPC ideas at a glance even before we started really looking at the character: This is a good list. You could argue that Edwin's amulet violates rule 10, but since the universe shits on Edwin 24 hours a day he never really gets the mary sue stink about him.
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Apr 20, 2016 16:57
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Also both Coran and Kagain violate rule 5. Not that I disagree with the rule, though.
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Apr 20, 2016 17:10
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Kavak posted:Unless someone makes a Planescape dev approved Dak'kon, Morte, or Nordom follower mod I don't think I'm ever going to touch one. AC is irrelevant in the long run. By mid BG2, no one should be using shields at all. A couple points of AC can't compare to more attacks/benefits from an off-hand weapon.
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Apr 20, 2016 17:18
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Mzbundifund posted:This is a good list. You could argue that Edwin's amulet violates rule 10, but since the universe shits on Edwin 24 hours a day he never really gets the mary sue stink about him. Technically his necklace is is supposed to be an inelegant workaround to giving him the Red Wizard class kit because the devs didn't want to give the player access to it as well. Although I don't see the point really, just give it to the player.
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Apr 20, 2016 17:32
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Boogle posted:Technically his necklace is is supposed to be an inelegant workaround to giving him the Red Wizard class kit because the devs didn't want to give the player access to it as well. Although I don't see the point really, just give it to the player. What does the Red Wizard class consist of? Mechanically I mean. Just more spells per day? I was going to say it would be kind of hard from a lore perspective to justify giving a red wizard subclass to the protagonist, but this is the same game that let you be a Cleric of Talos or grow up in a library while also being a Barbarian, so whatever!
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Apr 20, 2016 17:58
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Cythereal posted:7. No killing Bioware NPCs. Because now I wonder how common that is. I know Tsujatha does it to Korgan, and apparently Chloe murders Anomen (I'm beginning to think I missed a whole lot of terrible poo poo when I had Chloe in my party), but there are probably more.
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Apr 20, 2016 18:05
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Wizard Styles posted:That's about straight up killing them, not dueling, right? Yes. It's a rule against what the modding community calls cutscene-killing, killing an NPC by straight mod fiat and usually in a dialogue that the player has no input on, for example a dialogue option that ends with (Mary Sue slits Anomen's throat in a single, lightning-fast strike with a grace that belies its ferocity), and when the dialogue prompt ends Anomen is dead and probably chunked. Red Wizards in the tabletop for reference, are super-specialists: they give up an additional school of magic of their choice in return for even more bonus spells of their chosen specialty. Perhaps more importantly in the tabletop, Red Wizards are capable of participating in circle magic, which lets multiple mages pool their abilities to cast more powerful spells than any of them could alone.
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Apr 20, 2016 18:13
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I can't find any reference to a Red Wizard kit in 2e, just a 3e prestige class. Was the superspecialist stuff from the flavortext rather than from a defined class or kit?Or did Bioware start cribbing from 3e again? insanityv2 fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Apr 20, 2016 |
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Apr 20, 2016 18:16
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insanityv2 posted:I can't find any reference to a Red Wizard kit in 2e, just a 3e prestige class. There's a Red Wizard kit in Wizards and Rogues of the Realms. (1995) Dual-specialization (including two specialty spell slots a level) is included there; circle magic isn't. Circle magic is in the 3e FRCS prestige class, but it's not in Baldur's Gate anyway so it's irrelevant to this conversation. edit: There's a a different Red Wizard kit in Spellbound (also produced in 1995), with similar dual specialization rules. That source makes mention of Thayan circle magic, although where the rules for it are I'm not sure. Arivia fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Apr 20, 2016 |
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Apr 20, 2016 18:37
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Cythereal posted:IIRC, she also cutscene-kills Anomen if you romance her because Anomen is just that homophobic and a rapist (according to the mod). I never understood the massive hate for Anomen. He's not THAT bad of a character and he improves immensely when you complete his personal quest.
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Apr 20, 2016 19:10
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Anomen is arrogant, which is a characteristic human beings hate. Also his stats start poor for his class, so most people don't keep him around long enough to see the end of his character arc. I agree I like how he develops, I just wish the game made a more concerted effort to change his dialogue after his personal quest - he'll occasionally have lines that are pretty inconsistent. In my mind he's far less annoying than Heir'Dalis, who is also super arrogant and smug but never develops as a character. Edwin is also really arrogant, but he's so cartoonishly over the top it wraps around to being funny.
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Apr 20, 2016 19:31
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Mzbundifund posted:Anomen is arrogant, which is a characteristic human beings hate. Also his stats start poor for his class, so most people don't keep him around long enough to see the end of his character arc. I agree I like how he develops, I just wish the game made a more concerted effort to change his dialogue after his personal quest - he'll occasionally have lines that are pretty inconsistent. Edwin also has the insanity gimmick that makes him amazing.
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Apr 20, 2016 19:33
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Washout posted:Edwin also has the insanity gimmick that makes him amazing. Without Edwin an evil party wouldn't be as satisfying, his comments (and Viconia's reactions) are hilarious!
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Apr 20, 2016 19:35
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Mzbundifund posted:Anomen is arrogant, which is a characteristic human beings hate. Also his stats start poor for his class, so most people don't keep him around long enough to see the end of his character arc. I agree I like how he develops, I just wish the game made a more concerted effort to change his dialogue after his personal quest - he'll occasionally have lines that are pretty inconsistent. Baldur's Gate also has a huge fanbase with women, many of whom resent that Anomen is their only romance choice in unmodded BG2, and that colors a great deal of the backlash against him even from women who don't mind or even like him but don't like that he's the only love interest they have without mods.
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Apr 20, 2016 19:48
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Cythereal posted:Baldur's Gate also has a huge fanbase with women, many of whom resent that Anomen is their only romance choice in unmodded BG2, and that colors a great deal of the backlash against him even from women who don't mind or even like him but don't like that he's the only love interest they have without mods. I often wonder what the scrapped Haer'Dalis romance would've looked like, his love triangle with Aerie and CHARNAME petered out as well. I suppose Valygar would've made for an interesting romance as well! Vichan fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Apr 20, 2016 |
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Apr 20, 2016 20:16
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Vichan posted:I often wonder what the scrapped Haer'Dalis romance would've looked like, his love triangle with Aerie and CHARNAME petered out as well. I suppose Valygar would've made for an interesting romance as well! And an interesting further note on Haer'Dalis: he was originally proposed as a bisexual love interest, and would have beaten Sky and Silk Fox (unless you count Juhani's almost completely cut kinda-sorta relationshiop) to the punch for the first LGB love interest in a Bioware game, and one of the earliest LGBT characters in modern computer gaming period.
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Apr 20, 2016 20:25
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Vichan posted:I often wonder what the scrapped Haer'Dalis romance would've looked like, his love triangle with Aerie and CHARNAME petered out as well. I suppose Valygar would've made for an interesting romance as well! Cythereal posted:Baldur's Gate also has a huge fanbase with women, many of whom resent that Anomen is their only romance choice in unmodded BG2, and that colors a great deal of the backlash against him even from women who don't mind or even like him but don't like that he's the only love interest they have without mods.
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Apr 20, 2016 20:27
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So should pick up Siege of Dragonspear? I think I got about maybe 25 to 35 more hours left. On Durlags tower in Chapter 5. Unsure how much longer I have.
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Apr 20, 2016 20:47
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What level should I be before attempting Durlags Tower? 6/7? edit: Managed to pick up the Two-handed Sword of Berserking. Once I had it I immediately used Rage and one shotted the priest. I'm assuming Berserk and Rage stack? Sephiroth_IRA fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Apr 20, 2016 |
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Apr 20, 2016 20:48
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Regarding NPCs: That underage "no-no" got me thinking. I think a well developed orphan that you first help out and then wants to come along with you and sees you as his father/mother that was killed could make some interesting story. (And maybe be a fresh kind of NPC if you make him/her a pacifist at first, maybe only good for picking pockets and finding traps or something, then later developing in some sort of "daggers only" (swords are too heavy) thief)
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Apr 20, 2016 20:52
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I'm wrapping up Durlags but it's really seems I don't have much more advancing. Minsc needs something like 70k and I think is level8
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Apr 20, 2016 20:55
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Crip Towe posted:Regarding NPCs: That underage "no-no" got me thinking. I think a well developed orphan that you first help out and then wants to come along with you and sees you as his father/mother that was killed could make some interesting story. There was in fact a mod NPC with exactly this idea. Like most NPC mods, the project died halfway through development because they kept writing it and not coding it. The "No underage NPCs" rule might as well have been called "Saerileth's Rule."
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Apr 20, 2016 20:56
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Cythereal posted:There was in fact a mod NPC with exactly this idea. Like most NPC mods, the project died halfway through development because they kept writing it and not coding it.  Saerileth's rule, I can very well understand  There are a lot of mods out there that are questionable to disturbing at times.
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Apr 20, 2016 21:00
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