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RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

What is the trick to getting great chaos fire orb to aim at a human being and not five feet above their head when locked on?

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Digital_Jesus
Feb 10, 2011

stand directly next to their right foot.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Lotish posted:

Get to Wolnir (the boss) then break the bridge from his side and climb down.

Important thing to note is that between the player dying and respawning, the skeletons apparently repair the bridge. As I found out when I ran back there to avoid being shelled by artillery only to discover my "ladder" back up was gone.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


the pursuer wasn't supposed to be chasing you and his name in japanese has nothing to do with pursuit.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

alf_pogs posted:

okay so here's some stupid lore stuff.

ds3 is the opposite of dark souls 1. instead of running through an old age of fire coming to an end, we're running through an age of dark coming to an end. instead of collecting humanity to maintain our form, we collect embers. humanity is the PC maintaining darkness in an age of fire; embers are them maintaining light. the player character is constantly searching for balance. so this time around instead of being a chosen undead, we're summoned as an unkindled.

the real tell of this is the mighty darksign rising as the dark sun over lothric. the things floating through the sky aren't trees: they're abyssal creatures, similar to those you fight in the abyssal covenant in ds2. men of pus are all over the place, and even the dragons in the area are infected by the influence of the abyss. it'd also explain why there's an entire religion set up to worship 'The Deep', and why the knights of Farron are a weird sort of semi-religion; they're fighting back to maintain order while the abyss keeps creeping in.

the big question for me is: where is the firelink shrine? my guess is that it exists outside the rest of the game's time period, although why i don't know. when you give the firekeeper her eyes back, she talks about seeing an endless age of dark, spotted with tiny enticing flames. the assumption is that she's seeing into a future age of dark, but she may as well be describing lothric as it is.


anyways i don't know. i love this game and i'm very much enjoying the usual nonsense lore mystery times.

I don't think the Age of Dark is coming to an end, I think it's finally starting to take hold. Normally when the Dark began to creep in someone would just relight the Flame lickety-split and drive it back again, but now the fire's grown so dim that the Abyss' influence has made itself known in more dramatic, pervasive ways. That's driven home in the Link the Fire ending, where the flame is weak, the Lords are all passed, and the Darksign in the sky still hasn't been banished.

The "angels" (which are creepy as hell) seem to be the new, undying form humanity will take when the flame finally goes out, which is why so many of the High Wall Hollows worship their larval tree forms.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Digital_Jesus posted:

stand directly next to their right foot.

lol

Soft Shell Crab
Apr 12, 2006

homeless poster posted:

i know this was a minute ago, but every boss having the same general pattern (phase 1 i do this / phase 2 i do this) is not better design.

Dark Souls 4: Now every boss has two lives.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!


So, any consensus on what this area is yet? I zoomed in as far as I possibly could and I still can't tell. It sorta looks like Irithyll but I don't know if that counts as a valley or not. What path through the game sends you off in that direction?

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice

alf_pogs posted:

okay so here's some stupid lore stuff.

the big question for me is: where is the firelink shrine? my guess is that it exists outside the rest of the game's time period, although why i don't know. when you give the firekeeper her eyes back, she talks about seeing an endless age of dark, spotted with tiny enticing flames. the assumption is that she's seeing into a future age of dark, but she may as well be describing lothric as it is.

Here's how I see it:

We know from the DaS1 opening cinematic that "with fire, came disparity". In an age of dark, when the fire is almost entirely put out, distinctions like life and death, past and future, and geographic separation like Lothric and Irithyll fade away (but are not completely lost as long as embers of the fire remain). There's multiple Firelink Shrines because the distinction between "what is", "what was", "what will be", and "what could be" is weakening. Combined with the extremely cyclical nature of everything in the Dark Souls universe, you start getting things like multiple copies of Firelink Shrine, or Andre still being here (because his role in history is to forge weapons for a future lord of cinder, and it isn't terribly important whether than future lord is the chosen undead or the unkindled one). It's also why Ornstein simultaneously died to the chosen undead in Anor Londo, died to the bearer of the curse in Heide's tower of flame, and died in the Archdragon Peak after looking for the Nameless King.

In an age of fire, things take much firmer shape, back by the personality and force of will of the lord of cinder. While geographical distinctions have started to break down in DaS2, as of course has the disparity between life and death, we don't see the temporal nonsense that, in a sense, defines DaS1 and DaS2, because Vendrick had done such a good job at forcing the world to follow his will. You can see this in the wildly different shape the Kiln of the First Flame has in DaS2, where it's a throne rather than a bonfire, because Vendrick's much more concerned with kingship than fire.

As for the vision the Fire Keeper sees, that's almost certainly just a reference to the ending you get in response to that dialogue, where you put out the flame utterly, rejecting the traditional choice between an age of fire or an age of dark--you let the world revert back to the world of mist, filled with archtrees and everlasting dragons, but because everything in the world is cyclical, eventually those tiny embers in the distance will reignite the first flame and everything will start over again. Or at least that's how I see it.


On an entirely separate lore note, it feels weird that the Abyss is depicted as so much more inanimate in this game, at least from the item descriptions and dialogue I got on my first playthrough. In DaS1, the Abyss was spread by Kaathe and Manus, two specific, animate beings. In DaS2, it was spread by the fragments of Manus, Nashandra in particular. In this game it just sort of feels like a rising tide that inexorably envelops everything unless stopped by the first flame, without that personal touch.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Actually I guess I'll just use Forbidden Sun and just use an extra ashen estus flask for all my murder needs. Is Chaos Storm any good? I only have four slots.

ShadowMar
Mar 2, 2010

HERE IS A
GRAVEYARD
OF YOU!


RBA Starblade posted:

Actually I guess I'll just use Forbidden Sun and just use an extra ashen estus flask for all my murder needs. Is Chaos Storm any good? I only have four slots.

chaos storm sucks for pvp based on my testing at least. i even tried camouflaging myself next to a lever and got guaranteed hits on the host and it was still poo poo. this was with the pyromancy boosting rings and the fire clutch ring fyi

in pve you'll just get stunlocked by enemies repeatedly

chaos fire orb is still the best pyromancy.

ShadowMar fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Apr 22, 2016

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Do I have a bad level/weapon rank combination for covenant invasions? The only way I'm able to invade is with the red eye orb. I'm at 74/+10 (well, +5 boss weapon). I did the entirety of NG+ High Wall and Undead Settlement embered without getting a single invasion.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

double post

StrangeAeon
Jul 11, 2011


I feel like I'm missing on so much in this game, though I try to be as diligent as possible while exploring.

Also, I occasionally find a note saying "Try Gesture" or something similar. Any idea what this is about?

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice

cheetah7071 posted:

Here's how I see it:

We know from the DaS1 opening cinematic that "with fire, came disparity". In an age of dark, when the fire is almost entirely put out, distinctions like life and death, past and future, and geographic separation like Lothric and Irithyll fade away (but are not completely lost as long as embers of the fire remain). There's multiple Firelink Shrines because the distinction between "what is", "what was", "what will be", and "what could be" is weakening. Combined with the extremely cyclical nature of everything in the Dark Souls universe, you start getting things like multiple copies of Firelink Shrine, or Andre still being here (because his role in history is to forge weapons for a future lord of cinder, and it isn't terribly important whether than future lord is the chosen undead or the unkindled one). It's also why Ornstein simultaneously died to the chosen undead in Anor Londo, died to the bearer of the curse in Heide's tower of flame, and died in the Archdragon Peak after looking for the Nameless King.

In an age of fire, things take much firmer shape, back by the personality and force of will of the lord of cinder. While geographical distinctions have started to break down in DaS2, as of course has the disparity between life and death, we don't see the temporal nonsense that, in a sense, defines DaS1 and DaS2, because Vendrick had done such a good job at forcing the world to follow his will. You can see this in the wildly different shape the Kiln of the First Flame has in DaS2, where it's a throne rather than a bonfire, because Vendrick's much more concerned with kingship than fire.

As for the vision the Fire Keeper sees, that's almost certainly just a reference to the ending you get in response to that dialogue, where you put out the flame utterly, rejecting the traditional choice between an age of fire or an age of dark--you let the world revert back to the world of mist, filled with archtrees and everlasting dragons, but because everything in the world is cyclical, eventually those tiny embers in the distance will reignite the first flame and everything will start over again. Or at least that's how I see it.


On an entirely separate lore note, it feels weird that the Abyss is depicted as so much more inanimate in this game, at least from the item descriptions and dialogue I got on my first playthrough. In DaS1, the Abyss was spread by Kaathe and Manus, two specific, animate beings. In DaS2, it was spread by the fragments of Manus, Nashandra in particular. In this game it just sort of feels like a rising tide that inexorably envelops everything unless stopped by the first flame, without that personal touch.

Actually, rewatching the endings, I now have no idea, but I don't think what I posted here is actually right. The world before the first flame was very specifically gray, not dark, and "dark" is the word used repeatedly by the firekeeper when you extinguish the flame. I assumed that extinguishing the flame represented the "third choice", beyond the two that existed in DaS1, but maybe the lord of hollows ending is the actual third choice? It's all very confusing.

ACES CURE PLANES
Oct 21, 2010



Might as well ask again:

Is there anyone on PS4 willing to part ways with their Gotthard Twinswords and/or Drang Twinspears? I'm thinking of doing a gimmick build but they lock those waaay too late for my taste and I want to actually fight some NG bosses with them. I don't know what I could offer but I'd be glad to give something if possible.

Meowywitch
Jan 14, 2010

Fight for all that is beautiful in the world

What're some good spots to Mound Make at? Just any boss in level range?

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007

A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!

cheetah7071 posted:

On an entirely separate lore note, it feels weird that the Abyss is depicted as so much more inanimate in this game, at least from the item descriptions and dialogue I got on my first playthrough. In DaS1, the Abyss was spread by Kaathe and Manus, two specific, animate beings. In DaS2, it was spread by the fragments of Manus, Nashandra in particular. In this game it just sort of feels like a rising tide that inexorably envelops everything unless stopped by the first flame, without that personal touch.

Well if you kill Yuria she mentions Kaathe so he might still be around. Though he was more about bringing an Age of Dark than spreading the Abyss, which seems to be an separate thing.

Anyway I'm guessing Londor will be a DLC area we go to so that will probably answer some questions. I hope Kaathe is a boss so we can see what the "body" of a primordial serpent is, that kind of thing always bugs me. gently caress you Diglett.

RatHat fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Apr 22, 2016

CRAYON
Feb 13, 2006

In the year 3000..

The PvP after Pontiff is super active why do Darkmoons have to ride the bench? :(

HnK416
Apr 26, 2008

Hot diggity damn!
Sooooo...anyone else unnerved by the courtyard full of what seem to be dead giants that make weird creepy sounds right outside the Pontiff area?

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


RatHat posted:

Well if you kill Yuria she mentions Kaathe so he might still be around. Though he was more about bringing an Age of Dark than spreading the Abyss, which seems to be an separate thing.

Anyway I'm guessing Londor will be a DLC area we go to so that will probably answer some questions. I hope Kaathe is a boss so we can see what the "body" of a primordial serpent is, that kind of thing always bugs me. gently caress you Diglett.


there are statues of the primordial serpents in the archives.

Stick Figure Mafia
Dec 11, 2004

So this happened. Some late game location spoilers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iimHZKo5Iao

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!

HnK416 posted:

Sooooo...anyone else unnerved by the courtyard full of what seem to be dead giants that make weird creepy sounds right outside the Pontiff area?

They're snoring. Smack one of them. :ssh:

Elman
Oct 26, 2009

The Moon Monster posted:

Do I have a bad level/weapon rank combination for covenant invasions? The only way I'm able to invade is with the red eye orb. I'm at 74/+10 (well, +5 boss weapon). I did the entirety of NG+ High Wall and Undead Settlement embered without getting a single invasion.

I beat the game at 97 and a friend did it at 93, maybe you're just underleveled?

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


this game was so good it's unfair. there's nothing else to play. gently caress video games.

Meowywitch
Jan 14, 2010

Fight for all that is beautiful in the world

Oh I see you use the Red Orb for Mound Makers

Now I'm successfully ruining people's day in Farron Keep

Elman
Oct 26, 2009

RatHat posted:

Well if you kill Yuria she mentions Kaathe so he might still be around. Though he was more about bringing an Age of Dark than spreading the Abyss, which seems to be an separate thing.

(DS1) We know a serpent is behind what happened in Oolacile, though.

It does kinda seem like the Abyss is Humanity/the Dark Soul out of control, while Chaos is the Flame out of control. But Kaathe seems pro-Abyss either way :shobon:

Digital_Jesus
Feb 10, 2011

Elman posted:

I beat the game at 97 and a friend did it at 93, maybe you're just underleveled?

Finishing NG between 75-95 seems about right depending if you're A) Farming Souls as a SunBro or B) How long you had Shield of Want equipped.

I finished NG+ somewhere around SL135.

I'd expect to finish NG++ sometime around 160ish?

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


Elman posted:

(DS1) We know a serpent is behind what happened in Oolacile, though.

It does kinda seem like the Abyss is Humanity/the Dark Soul out of control, while Chaos is the Flame out of control. But Kaathe seems pro-Abyss either way :shobon:


the character that was the primordial man is also father of the abyss so it does follow.

Orv
May 4, 2011

CJacobs posted:



So, any consensus on what this area is yet? I zoomed in as far as I possibly could and I still can't tell. It sorta looks like Irithyll but I don't know if that counts as a valley or not. What path through the game sends you off in that direction?

I'm not 100% but that looks like the reverse of the skyline you see of Peak from Irythll. Though the altitude absolutely doesn't make sense for that.

Ceramics
May 26, 2014

Groovelord Neato posted:

this game was so good it's unfair. there's nothing else to play. gently caress video games.

the trick is just to play it again. and again. and again.

Lucas Archer
Dec 1, 2007
Falling...
I was sunbroing in the Cathedral and a host went on the elevator to the left of the bonfire, and somehow got to a ladder which lead up into the rafters. Search as I might, I cannot replicate the hosts path. How the hell do I get up there?

In other news, this game is amazing.

YoshiOfYellow
Aug 21, 2015

Voted #1 Babysitter in Mushroom Kingdom

And that's playthrough 2 beaten with my luck build character in under half the time it took my first character. :toot:

Anri's Straight Sword is cool but I don't know that I'd ever build around it again... although the Man-Grub's Staff supposedly can outdamage other sorcery catalysts if built for by about 12~18% if the fextralife wiki report is to be trusted. Something I may consider experimenting with later. Though it's still a hugely gimmicky build that doesn't leave you with very many weapon options since the hollow infusion really doesn't hold a candle to Anri's unless maybe you infused a large rear end sword that could go above 400 AR on its own... in which case you'd still be better off just taking the STR build for that anyways.

Who knows! Figuring out weird build poo poo is half the fun of this series.

Orv
May 4, 2011

Lucas Archer posted:

I was sunbroing in the Cathedral and a host went on the elevator to the left of the bonfire, and somehow got to a ladder which lead up into the rafters. Search as I might, I cannot replicate the hosts path. How the hell do I get up there?

In other news, this game is amazing.

The second door shortcut from Cathedral back to Cleansing Chapel has a second door by it, which leads to an elevator, which leads to a ladder, which leads to suffering.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

Elman posted:

(DS1) We know a serpent is behind what happened in Oolacile, though.

It does kinda seem like the Abyss is Humanity/the Dark Soul out of control, while Chaos is the Flame out of control. But Kaathe seems pro-Abyss either way :shobon:


It's also important to remember

The Dark Soul/Humanity is just as much a part of the Flame as anything. The Dark is defined by the First Flame. In the Age of Ancients, the birth of the First Flame created both.

Possibly why Kaathe has abandoned the plan of letting the Fire fade.

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy
yeah I'm eager to hop back in and want to try a pyromancer, a lucklord, and a giant greatsword dude which for some reason i've never done in a previous game but got the bug to do so now because guts cosplay is stronger than ever

Caesar Saladin
Aug 15, 2004

Lucas Archer posted:

I was sunbroing in the Cathedral and a host went on the elevator to the left of the bonfire, and somehow got to a ladder which lead up into the rafters. Search as I might, I cannot replicate the hosts path. How the hell do I get up there?

In other news, this game is amazing.

after you go up the elevator you'll end up in a little room with some fireball guys, you can walk along the edge of the building next to some wooden planks

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


Ceramics posted:

the trick is just to play it again. and again. and again.

the first playthrough is always the best tho.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

I finally figured out how to get to the prison tower bonfire above the Church. I need to watch The Last Crusade again.

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Chip McFuck
Jul 24, 2007

We droppin' like a comet and this Vulcan tried to Spock it/These Martians tried to do it, but knew they couldn't cop it

I got this really strange bug on ps4 today where my blood meter kept building instead of going down after being hit once by an enemy that caused bleed. It would even proc multiple times, starting over from zero after filling all the way. Restarting the game seems to have fixed it but for a while I was all :psyduck: trying to figure out what was happening.

Edit: this wasn't the leech guys by the way, it was an npc invader.

Chip McFuck fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Apr 22, 2016

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