|
prequel racism could have been worse. watto's head was the original Neimodian head design. they were originally sneaky space jews and not space chinamen
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 18:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 01:07 |
|
|
Neurolimal posted:Millenials are not deserving of intense scorn, and a film saying "millenials should be hopeful and push for change" is not declaring their superiority over you. It's very likely that every single poster in this thread is a "Millenial" so I don't really know what you're going on about.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 18:37
|
|
|
HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:It's very likely that every single poster in this thread is a "Millenial" so I don't really know what you're going on about. BotL thinks that a film regarding Millenials is inferior and boring and that showing them in a positive light means that the film is saying they are "superior" to BotL. I am saying that this is insane. As a millenial who has actually lived a rough lower-class life, it's incredibly eyeroll-worthy when they go "lololol middle class techies cellphones" because of a single word. BotL might as well throw in a pumpkin spice latte joke, go the full stale mile.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 18:40
|
|
|
Tezzor posted:repeatedly, especially in The Phantom Menace, Lucas notes a scene on screen and says "this scene is really good" or "I like this scene," and then goes on to explain that what he likes about the scene is that it has all digital characters or they made a pan shot out of two non-pan shots or they composited a shot out of many different shots. This is not an exaggeration. These are the only scenes he specifically notes as being good, and not because they have good acting or characterization, but because they have some visual effect he likes I mean, are they good scenes though? Suggesting that Lucas may like certain scenes due to their visuals isn't particularly damning or shocking. Also, BravestOfLamps, if TFA isn't exciting, the prequels certainly aren't either. Exciting is a bad yardstick.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 18:43
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:BotL thinks that a film regarding Millenials is inferior and boring and that showing them in a positive light means that the film is saying they are "superior" to BotL. I am saying that this is insane. As a millenial who has actually lived a rough lower-class life, it's incredibly eyeroll-worthy when they go "lololol middle class techies cellphones" because of a single word. BotL might as well throw in a pumpkin spice latte joke, go the full stale mile. What he's mocking is the whole idea. What the gently caress is a Millenial?
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 18:43
|
|
|
Slugworth posted:I mean, are they good scenes though? Suggesting that Lucas may like certain scenes due to their visuals isn't particularly damning or shocking. Not particularly. Off the top of my head, the scenes he notes as so good are Jar Jar talking to Boss Nass, a pan from some characters standing next to a pod to cp3o and r2 also standing next to a pod, and CGI Jabba and friends
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 18:45
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:Han has never been a mentor before, and its clear from posters ITT that its possible to miss that Han is being Rey's surrogate father figure. Additionally, I'm not sure why this scene must be controversial to be effective, impactful, interesting, or exciting. Again, you've lost sight of your own argumentation. I said that TFA softens anything potentially controversial. Now your saying that it doesn't need to be controversial. Neurolimal posted:Jakku is not the entirety of the film. None of it has the tension or interest of ANH, of which it is a remake. It doesn't have the uncomfortable tension of Luke being carjacked by "ethnics," or being stopped by the police for questioning, or the horror of the trash compactor (the equivalent in TFA even has Rey watching things through the comforting distance of security cameras). It actually prefers to move just straight to kinetics. It's decent, but there's nothing there that just rewatching the old movies doesn't offer except a vague sense of the story being continued. Neurolimal posted:Perhaps you should just say "I''m [thing]" instead of hoping someone reading right now is going "YEAH! Right on sister!". Millenials are not deserving of intense scorn, and a film saying "millenials should be hopeful and push for change" is not declaring their superiority over you. You clearly wish to place me in some category so that you can figure out what to think about me. Don't you think this is rather hypocritical for someone who claims to value innovation and progress? Youv'e said that the movie is about the new generation (progressive energetic millenials) overcoming the old one (racist Baby Boomers), and specifically noted that the old generation is supposed to be inferior. This is arguing for superiority. And it's not even about millenial struggles. Finn is a child soldier of a pseudo-Nazi regime., which isn' the Miileniale experience. Rey is a working class person eking out an existence in the Third World, which isn't the MIllenial experiece. The closest thing in the movie to a Millenial, ironically enough, is Kylo Ren. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Apr 22, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 18:45
|
|
|
Slugworth posted:I mean, are they good scenes though? Suggesting that Lucas may like certain scenes due to their visuals isn't particularly damning or shocking. Another director who was obsessed with visuals, but faced criticism for unsatisfying characters, is Stanley Kubrick. I'm curious to hear Tezzor's opinion of 2001 or Barry Lyndon.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 18:49
|
|
|
HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:What he's mocking is the whole idea. What the gently caress is a Millenial? It's been said twice, someone between 18-35. It's about as specific a term as Gen Xer or Baby Boomer or Greatest Generation. BravestOfTheLamps posted:Again, you've lost sight of your own argumentation. I said that TFA softens anything potentially controversial. Now your saying that it doesnt' need to be controversial. "in addition" does not mean "instead of". quote:None of it has the tension or interest of ANH, of which it is a remake. It doesn't have the uncomfortable tension of Luke being carjacked by "ethnics," or being stopped by the police for questioning. It actually prefers to move just straight to kinetics. It's decent, but there's nothing there that just rewatching the old movies doesn't offer except a vague sense of the story being continued. In Jakku there's no authoritative tension because the authority does not fear them. The tension comes from when those grifting the citizens (Unkar) decides to try to rob our protagonists. The falcon scene is exciting because of how much energy and freedom available after the prior setup of a constricting, desolate world. If you felt no tension or excitement from Finn's fight with Kylo, then you already made up your mind prior. quote:Youv'e said that the movie is about the new generation (progressive energetic millenials) overcoming the old one (racist Baby Boomers), and specifically noted that the old generation is supposed to be inferiior. This is arguing for superiority. This is an argument for the superiority of new, progressive beliefs. Not the superiority of the people inherently, but of what they believe. Starkiller would have collapsed even if it had been the Resistance building it. quote:And it's not even about millenial struggles. Finn is an oddly-written child soldier of a pseudo-Nazi regime., which isn' the Miileniale experience. Rey is a working class person eking out an existence in the Third World, which is isn't the MIllenial experiece. Rey works a dead-end job, earns a low amount of pay, returns to her dilapidated old house, eats artificial foodstuffs, and plays with her toys. She's resigned to her situation and only finds enjoyment from escapist fantasies. Her world is ravaged by the mistakes of the prior generations' ideals and decisions. Finn is someone who has accepted the status quo instead of being resigned to it, and changes when he discovers the immense damage the status quo causes. He stops being a cog in First Order. quote:The closest thing to a Millenial, ironically enough, is Kylo Ren. That's not ironic at all. He absolutely is a member of the new generation, hence being Han and Leia's son. He struggles with the expectations placed upon him, and finds solace in the "easy, correct" way that his grandfather's regressive ideals offered. He's a young republican. E: quote:You clearly wish to place me in some category so that you can figure out what to think about me. Don't you think this is rather hypocritical for someone who claims to value innovation and progress? I'm interested in figuring out why you hate millenials. I went with the most obvious one on this dead ol' forum. Sorry for being wrong. I'm not interested in categorizing you, I'm interesting in discussing with you. That is why I'm annoyed by your attempts to score points over having a discussion on this subject. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Apr 22, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 18:55
|
|
|
Basebf555 posted:Barry Lyndon. That's all I have to say about this.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 18:57
|
|
|
Jar Jar's battle scenes "were inspired by the comedy of Buster Keaton." Keepin it fresh, George. You sure there were no vaudeville routines you could have incorporated. I hear that president Coolidge needs to be taken down a peg
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 19:00
|
|
|
Tezzor posted:Jar Jar's battle scenes "were inspired by the comedy of Buster Keaton." Keepin it fresh, George. You sure there were no vaudeville routines you could have incorporated
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 19:02
|
|
|
Tezzor posted:repeatedly, especially in The Phantom Menace, Lucas notes a scene on screen and says "this scene is really good" or "I like this scene," and then goes on to explain that what he likes about the scene is that it has all digital characters or they made a pan shot out of two non-pan shots or they composited a shot out of many different shots. This is not an exaggeration. These are the only scenes he specifically notes as being good, and not because they have good acting or characterization, but because they have some visual effect he likes I'm having a hard time figuring out why this is an egregious commentary or why someone might assume it is exaggeration.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 19:03
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:This is an argument for the superiority of new, progressive beliefs. Not the superiority of the people inherently, but of what they believe. Starkiller would have collapsed even if it had been the Resistance building it. "I want to leave Nazis/ISIS" and "Nazis/ISIS must be stopped" aren't uniquely progressive beliefs. quote:In Jakku there's no authoritative tension because the authority does not fear them. The tension comes from when those grifting the citizens (Unkar) decides to try to rob our protagonists. The falcon scene is exciting because of how much energy and freedom available after the prior setup of a constricting, desolate world. If you felt no tension or excitement from Finn's fight with Kylo, then you already made up your mind prior. TFA has all the basic tension of an action adventure movie. What it doesn't have SW's willingness to be weird and transgressive, like with Luke getting carjacked by flamboyantly ethnic thieves. This is one of the fundamental strengths of the previous movies. Neurolimal posted:Rey works a dead-end job, earns a low amount of pay, returns to her dilapidated old house, eats artificial foodstuffs, and plays with her toys. She's resigned to her situation and only finds enjoyment from escapist fantasies. Her world is ravaged by the mistakes of the prior generations' ideals and decisions. Finn is someone who has accepted the status quo instead of being resigned to it, and changes when he discovers the immense damage the status quo causes. He stops being a cog in First Order. Do you think that a soldier originally kidnapped to the Lord's Resistance Army as a child and a 24-year old Indian junkyard worker both represent the Millenial experience? The closest representative of the millenial experience in the seems to be the Nazi/ISIS terrorist. If that's so, TFA takes a rather dim view on millenials. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Apr 22, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 19:04
|
|
|
When Buster Keaton wanted a gag where half a house dropped on him, mother fucker dropped half of a house onto himself, using only the divine art of math to make sure he was standing in the spot where the open window would land on him. Pure art.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 19:04
|
|
|
Danger posted:I'm having a hard time figuring out why this is an egregious commentary or why someone might assume it is exaggeration. I was under the impression that people disputed the idea that Lucas was an emotionless nerd who was only interested in what cool stuff he could make on his computer. If this is not the case you're right that it's not a relevant argument
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 19:09
|
|
|
BravestOfTheLamps posted:"I want to leave Nazis/ISIS" and "Nazis/ISI must be stopped" aren't particularly new or uniquely progressive beliefs. It's more than that; he's not just some random Nazi who's had enough, he's explicitly shocked by the results of his governments' actions. His first mission stepping outside his privileged (by comparison) bubble has shattered his worldview. I've genuinely met a number of friends with a similar experience with neo-conservatism/liberalism. quote:It has all the basic tension of an action adventure movie. What it doesn't have SW's willingness to be weird and transgressive, like with Luke getting carjacked by flamboyantly ethnic thieves. I'm fine with the film not having flamboyant thieves, thank you. I thought we were supposed to be upset that it references beats from ANH? It has the tension that I just described (for me, again, this is all subjective opinion, both of our posts are), and having Rey's lifeline decide to try to kill her has plenty of tension and excitement; at this point you know that she can't stay on Jakku anymore, and are curious about how she'll escape. quote:Do you think that a Ugandan child in the Lord's Resistance Army and a 22-year old Indian junkyard worker both represent the Millenial experience? The Millenial experiece If the Lords Resistance Army was about to invade the US, and the child soldier just escaped to the US, and the Lords Resistance Army had a history of ruling the US before...yes? You understand how bizarre this stretch of yours is, right? quote:The closest representative of the millenial experience in the seems to be the Nazi/ISIS terrorist. If that's so, TFA takes a rather dim view on millenials. Kylo shows that the new generation are not inherently good (which makes your superiority tangent especially bizarre), and that not every person can be like Finn and Vader. He works as Rey's counterpart and to contrast with Finn's own personal experience.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 19:16
|
|
|
Lucas says that Jar Jar's battle scene is there to show him turning the tide of battle. Then later when we cut back to Jar Jar they're losing but he's turning the tide of battle again!! Except they still lose. Lucas later says that while Jar Jar didn't change the outcome of the battle, he effected it. Which, I guess is true for some values of "effect." What if like a butterfly flapped its wings in Tokyo man. Later after Qui Gon dies and Obi Wan is cornered, and Anakin, Padme and Jar Jar are all surrounded by droids, he says "this is the lowest point, where all these characters could die." Only the character we hate the most could possibly die here because you made it a prequel you idiot
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 19:18
|
|
|
Tezzor posted:Lucas says that Jar Jar's battle scene is there to show him turning the tide of battle. Then later when we cut back to Jar Jar they're losing but he's turning the tide of battle again!! Except they still lose. Lucas later says that while Jar Jar didn't change the outcome of the battle, he effected it. Which, I guess is true for some values of "effect." What if like a butterfly flapped its wings in Tokyo man. Later after Qui Gon dies and Obi Wan is cornered, and Anakin, Padme and Jar Jar are all surrounded by droids, he says "this is the lowest point, where all these characters could die." Only the character we hate the most could possibly die here because you made it a prequel you idiot Its good that you're getting all of this out. The stress of keeping it in was probably detrimental to your health.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 19:25
|
|
|
*checks calender* Tezzor u have to wait for Meltdown May before u start posting inane nerd poo poo in here
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 19:27
|
|
|
Padme and her guards are in a hallway battle with battle droids, taking cover behind a pillar. She and her security chief make everybody run across the hallway so they can break a window and use their grapple hooks to ascend to the level above them. Except there was a window right next to them they didn't need to cross the field of fire to get to. Lucas says that he could never make the actors all ascend at the same speed on their grapple hooks. Uh. How about one cylinder with all their ropes attached, which is then rotated. I mean I'm not a triple secret genius with a billion dollar effects company behind me or anything, but that's how I would do it. I guess he could have been lying to make himself seem stupider much like Yoda and several of my animes
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 19:31
|
|
|
"Ascension guns!!!" scene was silly. My eight-year old at the time daughter thought it owned, though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 19:33
|
|
|
MrMojok posted:"Ascension guns!!!" scene was silly. My eight-year old at the time daughter thought it owned, though. The reason for that is the movie is made for 8 year olds.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 19:36
|
|
|
Tezzor, did you watch The Clone Wars? If so, what did you think of it?
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 19:37
|
|
|
GlitchThief posted:Tezzor, did you watch The Clone Wars? If so, what did you think of it? I did, and, eh. Some good stuff, some bad stuff, some really bad stuff, nothing standout.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 19:41
|
|
|
e: nm
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 19:42
|
|
|
Raxivace posted:When Buster Keaton wanted a gag where half a house dropped on him, mother fucker dropped half of a house onto himself, using only the divine art of math to make sure he was standing in the spot where the open window would land on him. I heard they had to nail his shoes to the ground to make sure he didn't move because the clearance between his head and the window frame was less than two inches.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 19:42
|
|
|
TFA has all the basic tension of an action adventure movie. It simply doesn't have the fantasy weirdness of Star Wars. If it tries appealing to Millenials, it does so by softening the basic characters of Finn and Rey. ll goes back to your reading being extremely dull. The movie is about an ex-child soldier and a Third World scrap dealer fighting Nazi ISIS, and all you can read into it is that it's about how Millenials escape their dead-end lives by fighting Republicans. Do you not get how facile this reading is? And it's not your fault. The movie is dull. It really does turn the story of an ex-child soldier and Third World scrap dealer into pap. Your reading is correct: The Force Awakens is dull.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 19:46
|
|
|
BravestOfTheLamps posted:TFA has all the basic tension of an action adventure movie. It simply doesn't have the fantasy weirdness of Star Wars. If it tries appealing to Millenials, it does so by softening the basic characters of Finn and Rey. It's got quite a bit of weirdness in it, actually. Everything else in this chunk is extremely subjective. quote:l goes back to your reading being extremely dull. The movie is about an ex-child soldier and a Third World scrap dealer fighting Nazi ISIS, and all you can read into it is that it's about how Millenials escape their dead-end lives by fighting Republicans. When you apply bizarre readings on individual characters that manage to be both asinine and dull (oh poo poo guys, its world war...TWO!) while also making no sense beside the rest of the movie, sure. I personally don't find an inspiring movie about disaffected youth rising up and pushing for change against stagnating centrism boring, but to each his own. quote:Do you not get how facile this reading is? And it's not your fault. The movie is dull. It really does turn the story of an ex-child soldier and Third World scrap dealer into pap. World War 2 has been covered a million times. I'm sorry that the dusty ol' spirit possessing you wanted to watch the good ol' days (this time instead of a soldier shooting arrows at nazis, its one of 'em dames! With a STAFF!). I hope you manage to give the film a chance after your upcoming exorcism quote:Your reading is correct: The Force Awakens is dull. Nope. All the annoying objective attitude, with none of his amusingly abstract readings.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 20:02
|
|
|
The plot of The Force Awakens is that a soldier defects from space Nazi ISIS and ropes in a Third World scrap dealer/polymath to escape and eventually fight Nazi ISIS who want to eliminate an ancient religion. The reason this sounds inaccurate (but is true) is because the movie isn't as weird and exciting as its premise. ANH, in contrast, is just as exciting as the premise makes it sound like: a farmboy and monk from an alien desert fight space fascists. TFA is dull because it's very safe despite its bizarre premise. You're going into tangents about World War 2 for no reason. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Apr 22, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 20:14
|
|
|
You know, you can just say "I didn't find this interesting." That's a thing you can do.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 20:16
|
|
|
It's really too bad all that Mary Sue crap came out around the time of the film for many reasons, but specifically because it overshadowed how great Daisy Ridley was. Repeated viewings doesn't cool my opinion, she really is phenomenal, incredible range, likable and totally believable. Best performance in any Star Wars film, IMO. Ford was great in 4, 5 and 7 but he never was called on to demonstrate half the depth or breadth of emotion she was
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 20:17
|
|
|
Youtube has taught a whole generation of kids that feigned outrage and piece-mealy reaction are an adequate substitute for simple truth and accuracy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 20:32
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Youtube has taught a whole generation of kids that feigned outrage and piece-mealy reaction are an adequate substitute for simple truth and accuracy. What the gently caress are you talking about?
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 20:36
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Youtube has taught a whole generation of kids that feigned outrage and piece-mealy reaction are an adequate substitute for simple truth and accuracy. It could be worse, they could have unleashed twitter on you like your sister.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 20:36
|
|
|
BravestOfTheLamps posted:The plot of The Force Awakens is that a soldier defects from space Nazi ISIS and ropes in a Third World scrap dealer/polymath to escape and eventually fight Nazi ISIS who want to eliminate an ancient religion. This is, again, entirely subjective. Not everyone wants to watch World War 2: This Time Hitler Is Gray And Has No Nose. quote:You're going into tangents about World War 2 for no reason. I have quite a reason for it: your idea of interesting, bizzare, unique is another World War 2 film. It's funny because that's exactly what I said in a response to Cnut earlier today: a lot of the people uninterested in TFA wanted/expected another movie about historical events. It's worth harping about because its' one of the few instances where you've actually shown your tastes and opinion outside of saying "TFA isn't good".
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 20:55
|
|
|
RBA Starblade posted:Tezzor Still RIght But Should Still Really Dial It Down I Mean Really
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 21:02
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:This is, again, entirely subjective. Not everyone wants to watch World War 2: This Time Hitler Is Gray And Has No Nose. Neurolimal posted:I have quite a reason for it: your idea of interesting, bizzare, unique is another World War 2 film. Where are you getting this stuff from? I said that A New Hope is exciting, and that TFA is dull doesn't live up to its premise about a defector from the Nazi ISIS soldier escaping and fighting them. You're criticizing TFA as "another World War 2 film". BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Apr 22, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 21:08
|
|
|
BravestOfTheLamps posted:Where are you getting this WW2 stuff from? Because it's more fighting-Nazi's crap, which is incredibly played out. "this time they're insurgents!" is both intellectually insulting and insultingly lazy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 21:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 01:07 |
|
|
Neurolimal posted:Because it's more fighting-Nazi's crap, which is incredibly played out. "this time they're insurgents!" is both intellectually insulting and insultingly lazy. You think TFA is intellectually insulting and insultingly lazy? Because the movie is about fighting Nazi insurgents. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2016 21:12
|
|