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BravestOfTheLamps posted:You think TFA is intellectually insulting and insultingly lazy? Your personal reading is that it's about fighting Nazi's. That you've gone the PT Hating route of assigning the film an imagined goal and declaring that goal failed does not make you the arbiter of intent or subjective opinion.
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Apr 22, 2016 21:13
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Neurolimal posted:Your personal reading is that it's about fighting Nazi's. That you've gone the PT Hating route of assigning the film an imagined goal and declaring that goal failed does not make you the arbiter of intent or subjective opinion.  
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Apr 22, 2016 21:14
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Fascists are in TFA. TFA is not about beating fascism (or, at the very least, specifically fighting fascism). That's my personal opinion and reading of the film.
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Apr 22, 2016 21:15
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- "The Force Awakens is a movie where a soldier defects from fascists insurgents and then fights them" - "Nuh-uh!"
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Apr 22, 2016 21:21
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GlitchThief posted:What the gently caress are you talking about? I'm talking about the 'liveblogging'(?), for example, of the prequel commentary tracks - riffing on individual statements without a coherent thesis. It's that bad debate tactic of line-by-line quoting, creating an entire new worldview in response to each because you've already lost track of what you were initially objecting to.
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Apr 22, 2016 21:21
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Youtube has taught a whole generation of kids that feigned outrage and piece-mealy reaction are an adequate substitute for simple truth and accuracy. thanks granddad. i also think they should pull up their pants and stop listening to all the rap crap and the hippety hop
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Apr 22, 2016 21:22
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:- "The Force Awakens is a movie where a soldier defects from fascists insurgents and then fights them" The Producers has nazis in it. The main characters aim's align with humiliating the nazi on a large public scale. It is not a World War 2 film, nor is it about beating fascists.
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Apr 22, 2016 21:22
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I'm talking about the 'liveblogging'(?), for example, of the prequel commentary tracks - riffing on individual statements without a coherent thesis. Who do you blame more, Mike or Joel?
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Apr 22, 2016 21:24
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I'm talking about the 'liveblogging'(?), for example, of the prequel commentary tracks - riffing on individual statements without a coherent thesis. There was a coherent thesis, which was the claim that George Lucas was intentionally creating ethically complex films as a critique on whatever is in fact a lie propagated by pompous idiots, substantiated by nothing and contradicted consistently again and again; and that it is possible to read them as possessing moral depth, in the same way it is possible to read Plan 9 as a comedy - that is, as the unintentional result of incompetence.
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Apr 22, 2016 21:26
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Neurolimal posted:The Producers has nazis in it. The main characters aim's align with humiliating the nazi on a large public scale. It is not a World War 2 film, nor is it about beating fascists. Okay. Now, do you realise that I was not arguing that TFA should be a WW2 film?
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Apr 22, 2016 21:29
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Neurolimal posted:Fascists are in TFA. TFA is not about beating fascism (or, at the very least, specifically fighting fascism). That's my personal opinion and reading of the film. That's not a reading, that's saying "It's not this". TFA is about setting the stage to justify fighting fascism again, because it's aspiring to be like the OT and the OT was about fighting fascism.
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Apr 22, 2016 22:12
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I think they (correctly) assume nobody gives a poo poo anymore about stuff like that, but it should be a crime not to have a DVD commentary on a big release, in my opinion. I care about it though.  I like learning how movies are made.
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Apr 22, 2016 22:13
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Tezzor posted:There was a coherent thesis, which was the claim that George Lucas was intentionally creating ethically complex films as a critique on whatever is in fact a lie propagated by pompous idiots, substantiated by nothing and contradicted consistently again and again; and that it is possible to read them as possessing moral depth, in the same way it is possible to read Plan 9 as a comedy - that is, as the unintentional result of incompetence. The fundamental problem you're having is that, even though you assumedly know full well that you are not talking to George Lucas, you are nonetheless actung as though you are talking to George Lucas. Instead of proving that anything I (and others) have written is false, on a philosophical level, you have consistently retreated into the assertion that George Lucas is a bad man. But "is George Lucas a bad man?" was never the question. You are not talking to George Lucas, or to his 'agents'. You are talking to something far more powerful.
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Apr 22, 2016 22:37
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Cnut the Great posted:I have to admit, that would certainly be a bold direction to take the series in. But it's weird to me that after so many years of people clamoring for a new set of movies that would be "respectful" of the OT (unlike the hated PT was), everyone now seems to be on board for a trilogy which nukes all the OT heroes' accomplishments while rewriting the narrative so that they were never even positive accomplishments in the first place: Han and Leia are actually a disaster as a couple, Luke isn't actually the new hope the galaxy needed, replacing the Empire with a New Republic was actually a fool's errand all along, etc. I don't mind Han Solo and Princess Leia being a coupling that doesn't work for life, that seems realistic and relatable to me. Certainly less strange than "everyone in the galaxy has some weird amnesia about events that occurred 20 years ago that were major both on a personal and galactic scale and also these people were once really really really stupid" The new Republic got 30 years of relative peace, that seems pretty good. Better than the timeline of the EU, anyway. Luke as the New Hope destroyed the death star, toppled the Emperor and the Empire, redeemed his father. That's pretty good, too. He hit a major setback in re-establishing the Jedi, but will presumably eventually succeed there as well. Surely even with the Kylo speedbump this is a no more convoluted heroic destiny than "Anakin Skywalker will destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force by turning evil and killing all the Jedi and then killing the guy he should have just killed like 30 years earlier while dying Tezzor fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Apr 22, 2016 |
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Apr 22, 2016 22:37
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The fundamental problem you're having is that, even though you assumedly know full well that you are not talking to George Lucas, you are nonetheless actung as though you are talking to George Lucas. Could you rephrase this in the form of a bunch of letters cut out from magazines
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Apr 22, 2016 22:38
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computer parts posted:That's not a reading, that's saying "It's not this". It's a part of my reading. The fascist aspect is not as important to the conflict as the opposition to progress.
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Apr 22, 2016 22:51
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Okay. You were suggesting that the concept in your head was more interesting than what we recieved. I would beg to differ, in that we have an utter glut of films about eccentric characters murdering nazi soldiers. This does not mean that I consider TFA dull, however, because I do not share your opinion on what the concept behind TFA is.
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Apr 22, 2016 22:55
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Neurolimal posted:It's a part of my reading. The fascist aspect is not as important to the conflict as the opposition to progress. Uhh...
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Apr 22, 2016 22:55
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Uhh... the overall opposition to progress*. First Order are bad for more than just "they are jackboots".
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Apr 22, 2016 22:59
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Neurolimal posted:You were suggesting that the concept in your head The concept is the plot summary of The Force Awakens. Neurolimal posted:I would beg to differ, in that we have an utter glut of films about eccentric characters murdering nazi soldiers. This is the plot of The Force Awakens. Neurolimal posted:the overall opposition to progress*. First Order are bad for more than just "they are jackboots". They are also insurgents who want to wipe out a religion. Nazi ISIS.
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Apr 22, 2016 23:01
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The concept is the plot summary of The Force Awakens. If you want to boil it down and refuse to read into it, sure. Personally I think that's a boring way to watch films.
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Apr 22, 2016 23:03
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Neurolimal posted:If you want to boil it down and refuse to read into it, sure. Personally I think that's a boring way to watch films. The First Order im TFA don't represent the Establishment, unlike the Empire in the OT, so your reading falls immediately apart. Millenials fight Republicans who are also Nazi and ISIS? e: The problem is that the plot summary is the most interesting thing about the movie. Reading it as a fable of Democrats vs Republics, aside from being supreme partisan hackery, requires ignoring most of the movie. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Apr 22, 2016 |
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Apr 22, 2016 23:06
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The First Order im TFA don't represent the Establishment, unlike the Empire in the OT, so your reading falls immediately apart. It's not reliant on fighting "The Establishment". My reading is not Democrats vs. Republicans.
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Apr 22, 2016 23:22
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Neurolimal posted:It's not reliant on fighting "The Establishment". So it's just a story of political partisanship where Republicans/conservatives are fascist insurgents and Democrats/leftists are a military group supported by the UN? First, it's not about that, and second, that's just hackery.
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Apr 22, 2016 23:33
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:So it's just a story of political partisanship where Republicans/conservatives are fascist insurgents and Democrats/leftists are a military group supported by the UN? Democrats aren't leftists. the "UN" doesn't actually endorse them (and in a deleted scene is even hinted at wanting to kill Leia.
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Apr 22, 2016 23:49
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Oh no, Tezzor is back. People who hate the prequels and think them some kind of cinematic abomination are all insane. Not liking them, sure. Even people who like the prequels think they're flawed movies. But hating them? Thinking of them as some fo the worse movies ever? No. Not in a universe where Adam Sandler and Rob Schneider exists. I mean, it's been loving 17 years. Can't you jsut go "Welp, they disappointed me, weren't what I want." and loving move on with your life?
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Apr 22, 2016 23:56
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So. The movie is about how Millenial self-actualization is possible through armed struggle with Republicans, who are genocidal doctrinaire authoritarians, but it's not about fighting fascists, and not about how a defector from a fascist insurgency and a Third World worker fight said fascist insurgency. That is one dumb reading. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Apr 23, 2016 |
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Apr 22, 2016 23:59
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Neurolimal posted:Democrats aren't leftists. the "UN" doesn't actually endorse them (and in a deleted scene is even hinted at wanting to kill Leia. That scene is not in the film. They secretly support the Resistance in the film.
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Apr 23, 2016 00:02
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MonsieurChoc posted:People who hate the prequels and think them some kind of cinematic abomination are all insane. Not liking them, sure. Even people who like the prequels think they're flawed movies. But hating them? Thinking of them as some fo the worse movies ever? No. Not in a universe where Adam Sandler and Rob Schneider exists. Sorry chump. This thread might've pulled the wool over your eyes in regards to the PT but the rest of have the ability to think critically. The prequels are trash. You are deluding yourself if you think otherwise. Accept this and move on with your life.
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Apr 23, 2016 00:13
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Tezzor posted:Could you rephrase this in the form of a bunch of letters cut out from magazines Putting things as simply as possible? The form of your argument is an attempt to 'hurt the feelings' of a series of decade-old audio recordings, in a performance akin to the great Eastwood/Chair debate.
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Apr 23, 2016 00:18
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Commentary track notes: Ep2, Watto is talking to Anakin while flies buzz around him. "Ben Burtt: 'Years ago we recorded a bunch of flies buzzing around a pile of horse dung here at the ranch' IT WAS CALLED THE PHANTOM MENACE, OWWWNED"
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Apr 23, 2016 00:18
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cargohills posted:That scene is not in the film. They secretly support the Resistance in the film. Plenty of readings in this thread are based off of the original script materials for the OT and PT. a cut scene is more substantial.
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Apr 23, 2016 00:21
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Yaws posted:Sorry chump. This thread might've pulled the wool over your eyes in regards to the PT but the rest of have the ability to think critically. The prequels are trash. You are deluding yourself if you think otherwise. Accept this and move on with your life. You don't need to hate a series of movies for over a decade. It's okay not to hate something.
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Apr 23, 2016 00:21
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:So. Indeed it is, which is a good thing nobody supports that reading you've made off of retarding your own terrible reading.
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Apr 23, 2016 00:22
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ILM man says Grievous having 4 arms was a pain to animate a realistic fight so that's why he lost 2 of them almost immediately.
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Apr 23, 2016 00:25
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Yaws posted:Sorry chump. This thread might've pulled the wool over your eyes in regards to the PT but the rest of have the ability to think critically. The prequels are trash. You are deluding yourself if you think otherwise. Accept this and move on with your life. They're clearly not trash. Maybe you're misremembering and you're actually thinking of Deuce Bigalow?
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Apr 23, 2016 00:26
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Young Van Helsing being the worst movie I have ever seen doesn't make Attack of the Clones any better. By the way don't watch Young Van Helsing.
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Apr 23, 2016 00:29
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My reading off the movie is that it's a rather hollow story about fighting a fascist insurgency. Your reading is that it's about "the new generation decisively trouncing old-generation ideas and tactics" where "Conservatives blow up the liberal-controlled white house, then the leftists usurp the conservatives" and breaking "out of the murderous civil war re-enactment group". That is to say, you're saying that TFA is about fighting a bunch of Republicans cosplaying as Nazis. You're beginning to convince me that TFA is really dumb. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Apr 23, 2016 |
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Apr 23, 2016 00:29
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Several animators wondered why they just didn't make a couple of trooper outfits instead of just animating all of them. Some say they meant to ask George this but didn't. Others basically say Lucas mumbled something and wandered off
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Apr 23, 2016 00:29
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The director of photography had to set up the shots without knowing what the city outside the windows would look like
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Apr 23, 2016 00:30
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