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What RPG has the worst Necron factor? As in they pull out some Final Boss out of nowhere, who's apparently worse than the guys fought up until now, and he's a god or the embodiment of hate or some other bullshit. There was that Zemus guy you barely know in FF4 who becomes Zeromus, there's the stupid Catalyst from the end of Mass Effect, there's the utterly atrocious Rogue Galaxy which I don't want to remember, and there's the end of Golden Sun: TLA where you don't face off any villain and instead fight some random dragon for no apparent reason. It really undermines a good story when the writers try to make the antagonist sympathetic by saying" Demons made him do it" without laying the groundwork. The Emperor in Star Wars exists to show that Vader answers to someone even worse, and to give Vader the possibility of redemption. There was no point for Necron to be in FF9. He appears in the last 20 minutes, has no ties to any of the cast, isn't mentioned again after his defeat, and only seems to exist to make to your evil cross-dressing brother look less bad. As mediocre as the Witcher 2 was, I appreciate that the ultimate-final-boss-guy was just dude with the same skills as me, and he wasn't terribly interested in fighting, so I had the option to tell him to piss off.
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Apr 23, 2016 15:56
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lol nvm
Motto fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Apr 23, 2016 |
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Apr 23, 2016 16:34
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Clarste posted:Developing good graphics is expensive, but no one takes you seriously if you're releasing for an obsolete console. I for one welcome our ugly RPG brothers. i dont mind ugly games with good gameplay but that looks awful and also there is no excuse for such a lovely ui
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Apr 23, 2016 16:59
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Inspector Gesicht posted:What RPG has the worst Necron factor? As in they pull out some Final Boss out of nowhere, who's apparently worse than the guys fought up until now, and he's a god or the embodiment of hate or some other bullshit. There was that Zemus guy you barely know in FF4 who becomes Zeromus, there's the stupid Catalyst from the end of Mass Effect, there's the utterly atrocious Rogue Galaxy which I don't want to remember, and there's the end of Golden Sun: TLA where you don't face off any villain and instead fight some random dragon for no apparent reason. in the classic XBOX 360 game BLUE DRAGON the final boss is the bad guy's pet
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Apr 23, 2016 17:02
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Strange idea: an "isometric" realtime rpg with parkour traversal, dialog trees and supposedly a fair amount of flexibility in how you can approach and solve quests. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHdReMjE32w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBgUOrceF5o
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Apr 23, 2016 17:14
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the reveal trailer looks great but the 23 minute one is kidna ehh. he just kinda runs through closed security checkpoints without anyone caring, beats up people in the middle of the city without a care (and dies and respawns halfway throughout the fight!) and the combat looks kinda boring. well, i guess they still got time to work on gameplay
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Apr 23, 2016 17:29
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Oh hell, they have a subtitle in the name. Banking on a sequel, maybe.
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Apr 23, 2016 17:36
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Yeah the trailer is real cool. Hopefully they still have time to improve stuff.
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Apr 23, 2016 17:39
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babypolis posted:in the classic XBOX 360 game BLUE DRAGON the final boss is the bad guy's pet You learn about it earlier in the game, though! Like, one cutscene! I'm gonna say LUCIFER from Star Ocean 3 because I can't stop complaining about that game. Also I just played the FFIII Remake and I've always heard how Xande was the firs tFF villain with "some depth." I once told a guy in an argument elsewhere about why FFVII was good and significant that Sephiroth was the first FF villain with sympathetic motivations. We got a whole flashback to his downfall and everything. He wasn't just an evil shithead from the get-go. His counter was "Nope, Xande did it first." Xande didn't do loving poo poo. He appeared right before the Cloud of Darkness did and died right before he/it appeared. Thatis not a villain with depth or a character. That was a character with one or maybe two lines of dialogue saying "yeah, he has his reasons' and then nobody gave a gently caress about said reasons and we stabbed him in the face. Xande and COD are both pretty much Zemus.
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Apr 24, 2016 02:26
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NikkolasKing posted:Xande didn't do loving poo poo. He appeared right before my Butt of Darkness did and died right before he/it appeared. Thatis not a villain with depth or a character. That was a character with one or maybe two lines of dialogue saying "yeah, he has his reasons' and then nobody gave a gently caress about said reasons and we stabbed him in the face.
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Apr 24, 2016 05:05
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Panic! at Nabisco posted:What? The game tells you Xande's motivations at length when you're talking with Doga and Unei; he was given the gift of mortality by Noah, went "this is a pretty lovely gift," and lost his mind and went full nihilist because he was terrified of the idea of death, which was totally new to him. This isn't exactly ultra-deep, but neither is Sephiroth, who went nuts because he found out he was created from Jenova and thought he was an Ancient. I don't know how you define "at length" because it was more like a couple sentences. They explained what each of his disciples got and then Xande got pissy and that's it. I don't consider a couple text boxes equivalent to a whole hour-long flashback dedicated pretty much entirely to characterizing Sephiroth and following him as he lost his mind. It wasn't perfect - like I said, I consider him the first FF villain they actually tried to explain or make sympathetic so naturally it had problems. But it was innovative for the time.
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Apr 24, 2016 06:32
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NikkolasKing posted:I don't know how you define "at length" because it was more like a couple sentences. They explained what each of his disciples got and then Xande got pissy and that's it. Wait wait wait. Did you just saying "characterizing" and "Sephiroth" in the same sentence without the words "complete lack of"? Also a couple lines of text in an NES era RPG may as well have been an hour long cutscene. You can derive more sympathy for Xande's motivation from the small bit you're given than the entirety of the FF7 script for Sephiroth. He's a complete non-entity.
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Apr 24, 2016 07:18
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Gibbo posted:Wait wait wait. He expresses confusion about his mother, disdain for Hojo, a yearning to discover why he's always felt "different." He laughs, he rages, he nearly cries.... That hour is spent seeing the cold, aloof supersoldier and peeling away the layers until he out-and-out loses it because he just can't handle what he thinks is the truth about his origins. I always liked Cloud's line "what about MY sadness?" It's telling that even Cloud can see Sephiroth , in spite of his maniacal laughter, is really just broken and depressed after all he read. All of this would mean he has a "character' I would think. If you don't think he's a particularly compelling character, fine by me. I would even agree with you because of some terrible inconsistency going on between Flashback Sephiroth and Normal Sephiroth. But he definitely has a very active personality. edit: RareAcumen posted:Yeah you literally never encounter Sephiroth outside of a flashback until you're at the end of the game. Better to just think of it as an avatar of Sephiroth you repeatedly run into. It was definitely Sephiroth speaking to you through varous puppets. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Apr 24, 2016 |
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Apr 24, 2016 07:46
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Motto posted:lol nvm What are they even saying here? Gibbo posted:
Yeah you literally never encounter Sephiroth outside of a flashback until you're at the end of the game.
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Apr 24, 2016 07:51
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RareAcumen posted:What are they even saying here? Some dude managed to get access to the Persona site and mess around with what was written there.
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Apr 24, 2016 07:57
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Inspector Gesicht posted:there's the end of Golden Sun: TLA where you don't face off any villain and instead fight some random dragon for no apparent reason. Uh the Wise One brought out that Dragon because he wanted to "test" the party to see if they had the strength to light the Mars Lighthouse and restore alchemy to the world. And then, because the Wise One is a dick, it turned out the Dragon was Felix, Jenna, and Issac's transformed parents. Oops! Then the Wise One goes and punks Alex.
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Apr 24, 2016 08:19
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NikkolasKing posted:He expresses confusion about his mother, disdain for Hojo, a yearning to discover why he's always felt "different." He laughs, he rages, he nearly cries.... That hour is spent seeing the cold, aloof supersoldier and peeling away the layers until he out-and-out loses it because he just can't handle what he thinks is the truth about his origins. I always liked Cloud's line "what about MY sadness?" It's telling that even Cloud can see Sephiroth , in spite of his maniacal laughter, is really just broken and depressed after all he read. I just played through this section in my PS4 FF7 run through and you're pretty much right. It actually does a good job showing Sephiroth going from famous aloof super soldier to existential crisis nightmarish breakdown burn-down-the-world villain, especially given story telling quality at the time of original release. Complete with discovering a monster being bred in a mako reactor and losing his cool, barricading himself in a library while stacks of books pile up, etc. It might be hackneyed but they put in the effort to give him motivation as a villain and actually give him a character.
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Apr 24, 2016 10:56
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Yeah, Sephiroth's characterization wasn't the best ever, but it was certainly there. The game spends like an hour humanizing him quite a lot and then he dies, after which he becomes this totally alien Jenova hybrid thing that bears little to no resemblance to who he was before, during, and after going insane. Because he died.
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Apr 24, 2016 11:00
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I just realized that Kuja and Xande have pretty much the same motivations. I wonder if that's just another callback FF IX does or if it were unintentional and Square are just unoriginal when coming up with motivations for their antagonists.
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Apr 24, 2016 11:51
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Inspector Gesicht posted:What RPG has the worst Necron factor? As in they pull out some Final Boss out of nowhere, who's apparently worse than the guys fought up until now, and he's a god or the embodiment of hate or some other bullshit. There was that Zemus guy you barely know in FF4 who becomes Zeromus, there's the stupid Catalyst from the end of Mass Effect, there's the utterly atrocious Rogue Galaxy which I don't want to remember, and there's the end of Golden Sun: TLA where you don't face off any villain and instead fight some random dragon for no apparent reason. There's Yu Yevon at the end of FFX but nobody ever remembers him because by that point your party is usually strong enough to annihilate him in one hit. FFX is kind of odd in that the final boss both thematically and in terms of difficulty is Jecht, and the rest with the aeons plays out like an extended epilogue.
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Apr 24, 2016 11:56
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exquisite tea posted:There's Yu Yevon at the end of FFX but nobody ever remembers him because by that point your party is usually strong enough to annihilate him in one hit. FFX is kind of odd in that the final boss both thematically and in terms of difficulty is Jecht, and the rest with the aeons plays out like an extended epilogue. Yu Yevon is a bit diffreent because for a long while in FFX you get the sense that there's something up in the world and there's more to the "Sin Destroys Everything" than at face value. Yu Yevon isn't given a name till quite a ways in, but by that point it isn't surprising because the party should've known something was up in the world. I assumed the Necron thing was for bosses with very little foreshadowing, which I would not say is what Yu Yevon was.
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Apr 24, 2016 13:07
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Yu Yevon was an important part of the plot, specifically the reveal that Sin was a summon and that the church was corrupted. He wasn't a constant presence in the story like Jecht, but he was definitely part of it. To me, his trivial boss battle actually felt more like the very end of FF7 where Cloud just Omnislashes his internal Sephiroth in a scripted battle. I mean, it wasn't scripted, but the idea was just that you were finishing off this pitiful shell of a thing that was ultimately responsible for all your problems but no longer had any power over you. To be fair, I think Necron was supposed to be like that too (the embodiment of the inevitability of death that drove most of the characters' motivations), it just made no sense at all and was a bit of a challenge so it was more annoying. Clarste fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Apr 24, 2016 |
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Apr 24, 2016 13:27
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The last boss of Suikoden 2 ended up being some giant magical wolf that sort of appeared in one cutscene prior when the game had done an amazing job of building up all these really cool antagonists throughout that could have been cooler final bosses, though to be fair every Suikoden did this.
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Apr 24, 2016 14:13
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Wasn't Necron just Stronger Better Soul Cage or was that just a theory? I don't really remember.
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Apr 24, 2016 14:25
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Verranicus posted:The last boss of Suikoden 2 ended up being some giant magical wolf that sort of appeared in one cutscene prior when the game had done an amazing job of building up all these really cool antagonists throughout that could have been cooler final bosses, though to be fair every Suikoden did this. You do end up fighting almost every antagonist in the game at one point or another at least, just not as the final battle (unless you count the duel against Jowy which is the final battle in the alternate endings).
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Apr 24, 2016 14:42
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Inspector Gesicht posted:What RPG has the worst Necron factor? As in they pull out some Final Boss out of nowhere, who's apparently worse than the guys fought up until now, and he's a god or the embodiment of hate or some other bullshit. There was that Zemus guy you barely know in FF4 who becomes Zeromus, there's the stupid Catalyst from the end of Mass Effect, there's the utterly atrocious Rogue Galaxy which I don't want to remember, and there's the end of Golden Sun: TLA where you don't face off any villain and instead fight some random dragon for no apparent reason. Probably the original Phantasy Star, it literally had no point to exist other than to have a second stage final boss.
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Apr 24, 2016 14:43
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Kanfy posted:You do end up fighting almost every antagonist in the game at one point or another at least, just not as the final battle (unless you count the duel against Jowy which is the final battle in the alternate endings). Yeah, but they never have the cool human villains as the final boss in Suikoden games. You either kill them off earlier and then magical runebeast appears or you fight them after in a dumb little duel. Luca Blight should have been the final boss of that game, somehow, he ruled.
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Apr 24, 2016 14:51
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Getting in my Vita copy of Stranger of Sword City tomorrow (thanks NISA store!). Digging the art style from the screenshots. Also apparently it's getting a Steam version in June with custom portrait support
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Apr 24, 2016 16:51
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a medical mystery posted:Wasn't Necron just Stronger Better Soul Cage or was that just a theory? I don't really remember. That's just a theory to answer the question of "where the hell is everyone and what happened after Kuja used Ultima?" General idea is Kuja killed them all and they got stuck in some sort of limbo and Necron was the "spiritual" manifestation of the Iifa Tree that they could now see since they too are spirits. But who knows. Others think Kuja destroyed the crystal and let Necron out. I never bought that theory, though. His attack was on the party, not the crystal.
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Apr 24, 2016 16:56
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NikkolasKing posted:That's just a theory to answer the question of "where the hell is everyone and what happened after Kuja used Ultima?" When his attacks were all gigantic explosions is it so hard to believe there was collateral damage? Not saying I buy the theory, but that seems a strange reason to discount it.
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Apr 24, 2016 17:17
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FanaticalMilk posted:Probably the original Phantasy Star, it literally had no point to exist other than to have a second stage final boss. Dark Falz does have a point to exist in the story, but you're right in that there really isn't any lead up to him at all. I think in PSG1 there's a couple of throwaway lines throughout the game hinting at there being something up, but that's about it. But also to be fair, PS1 is a Master System game and there's extremely little story progression of any sort throughout it.
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Apr 24, 2016 17:37
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FF7 might be the most overhyped game in history, but in my mind the developers did a good job at taking full advantage of the new tech that the PS1 offered and presented a very gritty story, albeit flawed and poorly translated. Some NES/SNES JRPGs had it's heartfelt moments, but the presentation left almost everything to the imagination. FF7 was the first time that we saw a combination of music and graphics that could really convey the full weight of a serious moment in the narrative. I'm not even talking about the obvious scenes like Aerith dying or Seto's tears or whatever. Stuff like president Shinra in his loft listening to classical music as he overlooked the destruction of a sector was simply not something that could be done well with lesser tech. FF7 took those moments and ran with them. Sephiroth was a fantastic villain because up until the nibelheim flashback sequences he was essentially the unseen swamp creature and you learned about him through his reputation and the horror left in his wake. Then you got to see his human side and the grief that drove him to madness through the trauma of Tifa and Cloud. When you finally catch up with him in the present, he is so far gone that he has essentially transformed (been reborn) into evil incarnate -- the default villain of every JPRG -- but the difference is at that point you intimately know the 'why' and 'how'.
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Apr 24, 2016 17:40
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Ff7 owns and I'm sick of people dismissing it as OVERRATED Like, it's still awesome, gently caress off with that
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Apr 24, 2016 17:47
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I think it told a much more focused story than most other FFs and was super ambitious but good lord it's a hard game to look at now. Im glad it is getting a remake now. I also hated everything to do with Red XIII but I'm not sure how much of a gaming sacrilege that is.
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Apr 24, 2016 17:50
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I like how it looks
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Apr 24, 2016 17:56
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Red XIII is a cool dog/lion thing, what's not to like?
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Apr 24, 2016 17:58
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I like Red XIII trying really hard to pass off as a human on the boat.
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Apr 24, 2016 18:09
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Verranicus posted:The last boss of Suikoden 2 ended up being some giant magical wolf that sort of appeared in one cutscene prior when the game had done an amazing job of building up all these really cool antagonists throughout that could have been cooler final bosses, though to be fair every Suikoden did this. That wolf thing is the incarnation of the True Beast Rune. Every final boss in the series follows this pattern, except for suikoden 4 but that game is garbage and doesnt count
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Apr 24, 2016 18:12
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lol yeah that owns
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Apr 24, 2016 18:12
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I liked Red XIII a lot and he was a child character done well, because him being very young was actually a surprise when you found out. He tries very, very hard to be Adult and Wise and it's cute 
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Apr 24, 2016 18:16
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