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Chuck Boone posted:Maduro gave a speech today from Margarita island and he went on a rant about the opposition being "fascists" and how he was ready to hit them with "Christ's whip". ...intergalactic?  Self-parody, or what? Unless he's admitting to be the Kylo Ren to Chavez's Vader.
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Apr 23, 2016 04:28
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ecureuilmatrix posted:...intergalactic? They've referred to Chavez as the "Galactic Commander" before.
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Apr 23, 2016 06:23
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fnox posted:They've referred to Chavez as the "Galactic Commander" before. I'm starting to think your leaders are less heinously corrupt and incompetent and more actually insane.
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Apr 23, 2016 06:27
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Kavak posted:I'm starting to think your leaders are less heinously corrupt and incompetent and more actually insane. Every time I open a newspaper it's a magical adventure, I'm always surprised by the government's ability to procure misery. Every time you think they couldn't do worse, they go ahead and prove you wrong. On a rather pertinent note, if the referendum procedure isn't completed by next week the government would have quelled basically all legal methods for Maduro to exit the presidency, other than of course, his resignation. If the referendum takes place next year, which is why the CNE has been stalling all this time, Aristobulo Isturiz would complete the remaining 3 years of Maduro's tenure.
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Apr 23, 2016 06:39
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I looked up the video (the bottom one) and the intergalactic bit was clearly meant to be a joke. Maduro may believe a lot of stupid things. Aliens being out to get him doesn't seem to be one of them. beer_war fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Apr 23, 2016 |
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Apr 23, 2016 07:09
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Chuck Boone posted:Maduro gave a speech today from Margarita island and he went on a rant about the opposition being "fascists" and how he was ready to hit them with "Christ's whip". Does he actualy believe this poo poo? I want to feel like its ted cruz like thing and he isn't actually that retarded. he just puts on show to make people underestimate him or some poo poo. or in cruz's and Maduros case, get partisan retards to think they truly believe the bullshit.
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Apr 23, 2016 07:21
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fnox posted:
Can't he just say "no, chavez and Bolivar came to me in dream and he said i can't be thrown out ever, so gently caress you" Who would even stop him
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Apr 23, 2016 07:24
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beer_war posted:I looked up the video (the bottom one) and the intergalactic bit was clearly meant to be a joke. It's still a profoundly stupid thing to say. Also, the "intergalactic" bit is arguably the least troubling part of that whole rant. Dapper_Swindler posted:Does he actualy believe this poo poo? I want to feel like its ted cruz like thing and he isn't actually that retarded. he just puts on show to make people underestimate him or some poo poo. or in cruz's and Maduros case, get partisan retards to think they truly believe the bullshit. I think he really does believe that there's an "economic war" being waged against Venezuela by essentially everyone who doesn't like him. I also think that he must be playing that angle up, while at the same downplaying his own/Chavismo's responsibility in creating the crisis. I'm generally a really firm believer in the saying, "never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity", but I think that above all else Maduro is an extremely corrupt leader who is being propped up by a group of even more corrupt people. This can help explain some of the more ridiculous things that he says, since I think that he's in "say anything to stay in power" mode more than a regular politician might be.
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Apr 23, 2016 14:33
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The Supreme Court is now working on a ruling which would curtail the powers of the National Assembly going forward. The ruling would require the Assembly to do a countrywide popular consult before passing any laws, as well as requiring the approval of the executive branch before submitting them to a discussion. Furthermore, the ruling would also remove the faculty of the Assembly to strip their own members of parliamentary immunity through a simple majority vote, the time limit for parliamentary sessions, the ability for the Assembly's president to suspend a deputies right to speak if he doesn't adhere to protocolary rules, and many other small modifications. This ruling essentially renders the National Assembly completely powerless and enables PSUV deputies to endlessly filibuster each session. The real kicker is that the Supreme Court is claiming that this ruling is due to a petition that the opposition coalition made in order to modify the debate rules of the Assembly, which is true. The thing is, that petition was made all the way back in 2011 in response to the then President of the National Assembly, Diosdado Cabello, not allowing opposition deputies to speak whenever he felt like it. The Supreme Court justices have a fine-tuned sense of irony. Labradoodle fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Apr 23, 2016 |
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Apr 23, 2016 15:05
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I'd be a terrible dictator, because if I were ruling Venezuela I'd be too ashamed to even continue the farce at this point. It's really astonishing to me that there isn't more rioting to force an end to this awful stagnation. As an outsider, it's really depressing to watch a once functioning country slide into failed state status.
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Apr 23, 2016 16:07
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The government has succeeded in sapping the energy out of people, the will to fight, that's what happens when you have to spend 12 hours on a line at a supermarket for the possibility of getting a small bag of rice. But we won't get rid of the PSUV through legal means no matter what Ramos Allup and the other members of the MUD say, people are gonna have to take the streets and some are gonna get killed by the government forces but that's the price to pay if we don't want to turn into North Korea.
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Apr 23, 2016 16:20
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Chuck Boone posted:It's still a profoundly stupid thing to say. Also, the "intergalactic" bit is arguably the least troubling part of that whole rant. so he is like erdogan.
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Apr 23, 2016 17:22
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El Hefe posted:The government has succeeded in sapping the energy out of people, the will to fight, that's what happens when you have to spend 12 hours on a line at a supermarket for the possibility of getting a small bag of rice. I think south america/ the US will step in if it gets North Korea level of dictatorship/poverty like. at least covertly.
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Apr 23, 2016 17:24
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Dapper_Swindler posted:I think south america/ the US will step in if it gets North Korea level of dictatorship/poverty like. at least covertly. Absolutely, this is a new refugee crisis in the making. Do Venezuela's neighbors have any plans for what happens if the state totally fails?
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Apr 23, 2016 17:29
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Dapper_Swindler posted:I think south america/ the US will step in if it gets North Korea level of dictatorship/poverty like. at least covertly. As far as I am aware of, USAID actually tried to help during the 2014 riots and it backfired terribly. The colectivos have been at it hardcore too so nobody wants to go out just to catch a bullet just yet. Ultimately, what the government wants is a violent revolution that they can easily quell and use it to fuel their political campaign like what they tried so hard to do with the 2014 riots. They've got us pinned against the wall until the outside world decides to help and by that I mean...Everyone, not just the US.
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Apr 23, 2016 18:14
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fnox posted:As far as I am aware of, USAID actually tried to help during the 2014 riots and it backfired terribly. The colectivos have been at it hardcore too so nobody wants to go out just to catch a bullet just yet. I think that it's a combination of the opposition leadership being reticent and the memory of what happened in 2014 when a lot of prominent leaders decided to disavow the protests and wait for elections. Right now there are still students detained from those days, on top of Lopez, Ledezma, and a few other political leaders, but we've still got guys like Capriles and Falcon practically campaigning to be the opposition nominee if presidential elections do happen. Capriles in particular turned out to be such a loving disappointment, he genuinely seems to care about his constituents, but at the same time, he seems utterly reticent to back any party other than his own. The thing right now is that there are a lot of small protests going around, but no one in the opposition wants to be the one to take say "gently caress these guys, let's go out and protest until they take us seriously" because the government has so skillfully sold their narrative of people exercising their right to protest as an affront to the constitution or whatever line they're parroting these days. To be honest I don't know if even massive protests would do the trick because in a best case scenario they would only precipitate a political transition to an outright military government which might cooperate with opposition members to restore a semblance of governability and take rational economic measures. I don't see these guys just waking up one day and saying "Well, poo poo. It looks like people are really pissed now, we better pack our bags and go into exile". Maybe I'm completely wrong though, but who the fucks knows? Every time I think I understand what's going on this country throws me a curve ball. Labradoodle fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Apr 23, 2016 |
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Apr 23, 2016 19:14
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The refugee crisis is sort of already happening for middle class, where I live I have never heard so much Spanish being spoken, and it isn't Spanish tourists but Venezuelans coming here
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Apr 23, 2016 19:22
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So here's a question: if the PSUV was turfed tomorrow, is it actually possible to fix Venezuela in the short or medium term? The flight of the middle class and all its associated human capital as well as the degradation of productive capital over the last decade make it seem to me that even if you had proper governance, there is no guarantee that Venezuela would bounce back any time soon. From the outside, it looks like the damage that has been done to Venezuela will linger and be felt for at least a generation, if not longer.
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Apr 23, 2016 19:56
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Gorau posted:So here's a question: if the PSUV was turfed tomorrow, is it actually possible to fix Venezuela in the short or medium term? The flight of the middle class and all its associated human capital as well as the degradation of productive capital over the last decade make it seem to me that even if you had proper governance, there is no guarantee that Venezuela would bounce back any time soon. From the outside, it looks like the damage that has been done to Venezuela will linger and be felt for at least a generation, if not longer. Venezuela's probably going to be feeling a fair bit of pain for quite a while even with a leadership change, yeah. There will definitely be a benefit to better leadership, but a lot of that will be in not continuing to make things worse and seeing incremental improvements rather than suddenly everything being great, especially if oil stays cheap. I'm not an expert on Venezuela or anything, but the history of other countries suggests to me that the worse the current crisis gets, the more likely the next leaders will try to coast by on not being quite as bad as the other guys while probably partaking in a decent amount of corruption themselves and/or turning to infighting as soon as the leadership they unified to oppose is gone. The worst case scenario is that today's opposition ends up holding the bag for the disaster they're going to inherit, and that nostalgia for the current regime (probably not Maduro so much as Chavez) ends up paving the way for round 2 later on, in the same way that the disaster of the Yeltsin years in Russia promoted Soviet nostalgia and paved the way for Putin. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Apr 23, 2016 |
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Apr 23, 2016 20:32
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Gorau posted:So here's a question: if the PSUV was turfed tomorrow, is it actually possible to fix Venezuela in the short or medium term? The flight of the middle class and all its associated human capital as well as the degradation of productive capital over the last decade make it seem to me that even if you had proper governance, there is no guarantee that Venezuela would bounce back anytime soon. From the outside, it looks like the damage that has been done to Venezuela will linger and be felt for at least a generation, if not longer. Someone else will probably be able to provide a better answer to this question, but I'll give it a shot. The main issue right now is that the PSUV don't seem concerned with tackling any of the underlying issues of the crisis we're currently facing from any angle, their actions seem to be aimed solely towards preserving their own status quo and keeping in line with their discourse at the expense of everything. To put things simply, the biggest five crises at the moment are lack of food, medicine, water, electricity, and public safety. As far as food and medicine are concerned we could probably see short-term improvements if a new government were to lift exchange rate and price controls, streamline the current draconian importing processes, and dedicate their depleted resources to designing more effective subsidies to families with limited incomes. Those first three steps would enable private enterprises to import products for the few people who could afford free market prices, take away the incentive of reselling mafias, and provide a little breathing room to the populace. The next step would be implementing effective subsidies that don't rely on price controls, which given our current rate of inflation only serve to incentivize black markets. For example, the government has currently capped the price of coffee at Bs600 per kilo, but you won't find it at that price unless you queue up on the day you're allowed to buy it. Entrepreneurial Venezuelans will, on the other hand, sell a half kilo to you at Bs2500 any time you want, which is the price I paid last week because coffee is the one thing I can't live without. A lot of coffee then makes it's way either to the national black market or gets smuggled through the border where it can be sold for hard currency. That currency then gets exchanged for bolivares at such a beneficial rate that the individuals involved can endlessly repeat this process and enrich themselves as long as they can find coffee. We can replace the coffee in this example with any other product you like, such as gasoline, and the result remains the same. Furthermore, as far as medicine is concerned, the government has outright refused international aid due to the fact that the Assembly decreed a humanitarian crisis on this issue. There are literally hundreds of people dying each month all over the country due to lack of access to medicines that shouldn't be hard to find, lack of equipment in hospitals, and electricity shortages. Simply accepting humanitarian aid would save lives here, but the government won't do it because it stands in contrast of their assertions of being a "revolutionary potency". As far as water and electricity go we're hosed in the short term. Whether the country collapses due to lack of electricity depends solely on the weather at this point. In the medium term, a competent government could increase the current ridiculous rates for both of these services and reinvest that money on infrastructure. The scale of the crisis will probably require the involvement of private firms in order to make it that far, though. To give you an idea, electricity is currently so cheap here that there has been a huge boom of Bitcoin farms in the country, for which the owners pay a pittance. Finally, as far as public safety is concerned, I really don't know whether any decent inroads could be made without incurring in severe human rights violations on the short term. The problem here is manifold: there is an entrenched culture of absolute impunity, judicial corruption, not enough jails, far too many guns on the street, etc. The scale of criminality inside the country is absolutely out of control. Every day there is news of murdered policemen, military officers, and even the bodyguards of high-ranking government members. On a couple of occasions during the past few months, entire cities have been unofficially shut down for criminal gangs to mourn the falling of their leaders and the government has chosen to turn a blind eye to it. We're not even talking about small no-name towns here, but major cities such as Maracay and the island of Margarita. Beyond that, we delve into murkier territory, such as how to dismantle the entrenched corruption networks in a state that employs over two million people, or almost a tenth of the habitants of the country. Then there's is the glaring issue that the country has long put all its eggs in the oil basket, and has nearly no savings, but despite of this, most political parties (including the opposition in its entirety) insist on telling people that the state can indeed afford to pay for everything. Would a new government bite the bullet and tell people that the state cannot afford to provide them with the quality of life that they have been promised for decades on the back of oil revenues or simply continue to indebt us even further? Would an opposition government even be able to afford that risk considering the possibility of chavismo to ride a populist wave back into power? Who the fucks knows. Labradoodle fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Apr 23, 2016 |
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Apr 23, 2016 20:42
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fnox posted:As far as I am aware of, USAID actually tried to help during the 2014 riots and it backfired terribly. The colectivos have been at it hardcore too so nobody wants to go out just to catch a bullet just yet. I am gonna sound like a dick, But how many leftists still defend the awfulness of PSUV/chavez and maduro. I mean i know they do.(bornio jim) But is it as widespread as it was in as it was back in the bush era days? where every celebrity and hipster would sing praises about how amazing they were. Because that would make a regeme change/coup/at worst case "intervention" more difficult.
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Apr 23, 2016 20:45
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U.S intervention (particularly in the western hemisphere, look at Honduras or Haiti) has universally led to violence, poverty and misery. Seeing as how the government is dragging their feet with the current crisis and that the opposition's economic plan would result in bloodshed and poverty, the future obviously lies with Venezuela's revolutionary popular collectives to provide aid and increase self sustainability.
Borneo Jimmy fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Apr 23, 2016 |
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Apr 23, 2016 21:07
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Borneo Jimmy posted:U.S intervention (particularly in thes western hemisphere, look at Honduras ir Haiti) has universally led to violence, poverty and misery. Seeing as how the government is dragging their feet with the current crisis and that the oppositions economic plan would result in bloodshed and poverty, thhe future obviously lies with Venezuelas revolutionary popular collectives to provide aid and increase self sustainability. We certainly don't need or want U.S intervention and we certainly need to be more self sufficient and cut our dependence on oil but the thing is the PSUV have proven to be the most corrupt and incompetent political entity this country has ever seen and that's saying quite a lot.
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Apr 23, 2016 21:14
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Borneo Jimmy posted:U.S intervention (particularly in thes western hemisphere, look at Honduras or Haiti) has universally led to violence, poverty and misery. Seeing as how the government is dragging their feet with the current crisis and that the opposition's economic plan would result in bloodshed and poverty, the future obviously lies with Venezuela's revolutionary popular collectives to provide aid and increase self sustainability. But America didn't intervene in Honduras.
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Apr 23, 2016 21:21
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Dapper_Swindler posted:I am gonna sound like a dick, But how many leftists still defend the awfulness of PSUV/chavez and maduro. I mean i know they do.(bornio jim) But is it as widespread as it was in as it was back in the bush era days? where every celebrity and hipster would sing praises about how amazing they were. Because that would make a regeme change/coup/at worst case "intervention" more difficult. It's a matter of lack of information and selective deafness. Most leftists I know that supported Chavez can't really do the same for Maduro because he's a terrible face to rally under. The dude is a total dumbass, whereas Chavez was a lot of things, including charismatic and manipulative, but never dumb. Not only that but the situation is so loving dire in Venezuela that using its government to support your arguments about socialism or whatever is a terrible idea. Yeah, four hours a day of power cuts plus random cuts at any point for any amount of time sounds peachy!
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Apr 23, 2016 21:23
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Hugoon Chavez posted:It's a matter of lack of information and selective deafness. Most leftists I know that supported Chavez can't really do the same for Maduro because he's a terrible face to rally under. The dude is a total dumbass, whereas Chavez was a lot of things, including charismatic and manipulative, but never dumb. I know a few on twitter who still do but mostly its people like jimmy or first world rich hipsters. either way the entire Venezuela thing is just depressing and much like every other crisis in the world right now, probably wont have a happy ending. 
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Apr 23, 2016 21:38
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Dapper_Swindler posted:I am gonna sound like a dick, But how many leftists still defend the awfulness of PSUV/chavez and maduro. I mean i know they do.(bornio jim) They do, but only people who have no idea what's been going on in Venezuela for the past five years (especially last two). If anyone says something positive about Veneuzela's government, ask them who the president is, and they'll probably say "Chavez or something like that?". Also Sean Penn, because loving Sean Penn. Do any Latin Americans still defend it? Like do you think there is even a single middle class Venezuelan actually still support Maduro? PS I think Borneo Jimmy is trolling this thread. His other recent posts outside here are fairly sane.
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Apr 23, 2016 22:57
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STAY AWAY MR OBAMA http://www.el-nacional.com/politica/Alcalde-Carabobo-prohibe-Obama-municipio_0_835116496.html quote:The mayor of the Carabobo state's Diego Ibarra municipality, Rafael Ruíz, has declared Barack Obama Persona Non grata. Seriously guys stop sending your president in undercover missions to Venezuela, WE WILL NOT BACK DOWN WE WILL NOT BE DEFEATED. He probably just wanted some Arepas.
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Apr 23, 2016 23:12
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On a different subject from my regular venting, I thought I'd try my luck here to see if anyone has any helpful leads. One of my best friends is a brilliant electrical engineer who's currently about to lose his job since Schlumberger is bailing out of the country (alongside Halliburton) and while I'm a pro at freelancing, I've got no clue where a proper professional could turn to in order to find a new job. Do any of you know which are the best places where he could upload his resume or otherwise look for a new job overseas?
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Apr 24, 2016 00:25
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Talking about losing jobs: ten thousand people lost their job at Polar after they shutdown beer production Another win for socialism
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Apr 24, 2016 00:38
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El Hefe posted:Talking about losing jobs: ten thousand people lost their job at Polar after they shutdown beer production You've got that right! Polar is a bourgeois company. The PSUV just cleansed Venezuela of those imperialist jobs!
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Apr 24, 2016 00:55
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Hugoon Chavez posted:STAY AWAY MR OBAMA You seem like a nation of Idi Amins, but with Spanish flair.
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Apr 24, 2016 06:00
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Borneo Jimmy posted:U.S intervention (particularly in the western hemisphere, look at Honduras or Haiti) has universally led to violence, poverty and misery. Seeing as how the government is dragging their feet with the current crisis and that the opposition's economic plan would result in bloodshed and poverty, the future obviously lies with Venezuela's revolutionary popular collectives to provide aid and increase self sustainability. wait when did Jimmy begin denouncing Maduro this is a sea change here, people
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Apr 24, 2016 06:04
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ronya posted:wait This would've been a nice sight to behold if he hadn't also mentioned so casually the whole thing of the "Revolutionary" Collectives being the key of our future, with no regards that's essentially wishing to doom us into a Second Caudillistic Era...
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Apr 24, 2016 07:22
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I think all nations ruled by armed "revolutionaries" have universally ended up as failed states anyway, look at Cambodia, Uganda. Not that Borneo Jimmy is trying to make a point at all, after all I think going for an anarcho-communist system would be actually one of the few things left to do that would make things worse, that or burning books and cutting off the internet.
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Apr 24, 2016 07:40
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Dapper_Swindler posted:I am gonna sound like a dick, But how many leftists still defend the awfulness of PSUV/chavez and maduro. I mean i know they do.(bornio jim) But is it as widespread as it was in as it was back in the bush era days? where every celebrity and hipster would sing praises about how amazing they were. Because that would make a regeme change/coup/at worst case "intervention" more difficult. I remember the previous Venezuela thread around election time was full of people who at least thought the PSUV would be the lesser of two evils. Nowadays it's pretty much just the odd true believer 100% committed to "the cause". Those people are hopeless and pretty much nothing we or the PSUV say or do will change that. Saladman posted:PS I think Borneo Jimmy is trolling this thread. His other recent posts outside here are fairly sane. If he is, he's playing the loooong con. Guy has been around these threads for years and years. beer_war fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Apr 24, 2016 |
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Apr 24, 2016 08:19
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So the TSJ did something hilariously despotic this Friday. Not only they disobeyed their own announcement that they weren't going to work on Fridays, but the reason WHY they did what they did was because of a case introduced by the opposition to the Constitutional Chamber 5 years ago. They pretend to have the National Assembly forced to have every single decision they take be subject to popular vote, which will mean an obvious delay in its ability to act. They also need to ask the Executive branch for permission to do anything. Every day I'm more convinced that there is no legal way to get these loving fools out of the government.
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Apr 24, 2016 17:54
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fnox posted:So the TSJ did something hilariously despotic this Friday. Not only they disobeyed their own announcement that they weren't going to work on Fridays, but the reason WHY they did what they did was because of a case introduced by the opposition to the Constitutional Chamber 5 years ago. They pretend to have the National Assembly forced to have every single decision they take be subject to popular vote, which will mean an obvious delay in its ability to act. They also need to ask the Executive branch for permission to do anything. There is no legal way in Venezuela. You are a dictatorship, with rule via executive fiat. You are on the path towards becoming Liberia. Watch Firestone and the Warlord sometime to see what that would look like.
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Apr 24, 2016 18:09
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The TSJ also "suspended" diplomatic immunity so expect them to start getting arrested soon!
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Apr 24, 2016 18:13
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El Hefe posted:The TSJ also "suspended" diplomatic immunity so expect them to start getting arrested soon! so when are they going to go full isolationist and become the "hermit kingdom" of south america? Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Apr 24, 2016 |
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Apr 24, 2016 18:54
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