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The only time the Jedi are portrayed in a good light is when Luke throw's down his light saber at the end of RotJ.
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Apr 23, 2016 20:08
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Toilet Mouth posted:It seems like everyone who goes in depth on the prequels, for or against (including the RLM reviews), agrees that the Jedi are hypocritical and get duped by Palpatine at every turn, and generally just made to look stupid. It's just factually what happens in the film. What are we arguing about? Strange as you might find it, that was actually what he set out to do. He failed incredibly; leading to our irrational idiot protagonists.
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Apr 23, 2016 20:10
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Yaws posted:The only time the Jedi are portrayed in a good light is when Luke throw's down his light saber at the end of RotJ. There's that time two of them try to peacefully end a large scale interplanetary trade dispute and protect a political target from repeated assassination attempts.
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Apr 23, 2016 20:17
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AndyElusive posted:There's that time two of them try to peacefully end a large scale interplanetary trade dispute
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Apr 23, 2016 20:24
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multijoe posted:Unironic use of the term 'Millenial' should be a bannable offence imo It's appropriate to defend the movie using marketing terms, because the movie is shot through with marketing. Analysis of generations is vacuous because the notion of generations is vacuous, an appeal to the same mystical motivation for history as astrology. It's as meaningful to say that Rey is a first trine, probably a dragon, but Finn is, it goes without saying, a monkey. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Millenials are between 17 and 35 years old. That's a cogent point IMO. What can you tell me about their spending habits?
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Apr 23, 2016 20:27
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Elfgames posted:I thought George was the bullying Ur-tyrant who always got what he wanted and his staff and actors were afraid of him and he never compromised anything. George wasn't really a "tyrant" who forced people to do what he wanted, it's more that nobody ever really pressed in questioning him or asserting themselves out of fanboyism, lack of confidence and/or careerism even when they had obvious reservations. I could make a list as long as my previous one, of guys mildly complaining about having to act in featureless rooms or how ideas seem bad or made no sense, with an equal one-entry long list of people who criticized George and he changed something: Natalie asked George for more to do in ep 2 and he added her to the end fight sequence. Rick McCallum's entire gimmick on the commentary tracks could be summarized as "I privately thought this thing was bad or we spent too much time on it but George was right again!!" Tezzor fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Apr 24, 2016 |
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Apr 23, 2016 20:28
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Nothing is ever 'exactly what you envision'. That would require the power of god. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8q5I_ziWEs
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Apr 23, 2016 20:31
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Yaws posted:Nah, they were trying to strong arm the Trade Federation. Bully them into submission. There's really no evidence of this except from a deliberately cynical reading; and according to George, as a matter of fact in these scenes specifically, the Trade Federation are "evil" and the Jedi are "good guys" and "the guardians of peace and justice."
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Apr 23, 2016 20:32
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Tezzor posted:There's really no evidence of this except from a deliberately cynical reading; and according to George, as a matter of fact in these scenes specifically, the Trade Federation are "evil" and the Jedi are "good guys" and "the guardians of peace and justice." why do you send knights to a trade dispute?
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Apr 23, 2016 20:33
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Yaws posted:Nah, they were trying to strong arm the Trade Federation. Bully them into submission. The Trade Fed placed a blockade on Naboo and then invaded them in response to a decision made by the Galactic Senate. In hindsight it was a good idea to send in Jedi since the Neimoidians tried to gas chamber them. Elfgames posted:why do you send knights to a trade dispute? Why does having a laser sword and mind tricks mean someone can't peacefully negotiate? AndyElusive fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Apr 23, 2016 |
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Apr 23, 2016 20:37
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The trade federation were criminals (and rich capitalist criminals at that if that makes your politics feel better) who were actively and currently engaged in the prosecution of a criminal act, and the Jedi were there in an officially sanctioned action in their legal professional capacity. Even if the Jedi actually showed up and immediately captured the yellow menace by force and hauled them away that would be a perfectly acceptable action for a police force to undertake
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Apr 23, 2016 20:38
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Elfgames posted:why do you send knights to a trade dispute? Why send police to investigate a possible hostage situation
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Apr 23, 2016 20:39
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It's funny to hear a bunch of guys who pretend to be marxists on the internet whining that a democratic government would do something as gauche and corrupt as using a mild implicit threat of force to gain compliance from a militarized capitalist monopoly engaging in a criminal act
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Apr 23, 2016 20:42
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Tezzor posted:Strange as you might find it, that was actually what he set out to do. He failed incredibly; leading to our irrational idiot protagonists. You appear to think that George Lucas is literally retarded.
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Apr 23, 2016 20:45
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Jedi, even in the PT, are shown to be highly political and philosophical; theres no reason Qui-Gon couldn't also be an infamously skilled negotiator (who knows how the mind trick works? Could gently caress up their brains, or it could just inhibit feelings of pride and hostility, or could just be a fruity arm flick Qui-gon likes to do) If Jedi are notorious strongarm thugs, they're pretty drat bad at that if they sit in a room for an hour, drink potentially lethal substances, and stare out an easily destroyed window.
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Apr 23, 2016 20:47
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Tezzor posted:It's funny to hear a bunch of guys who pretend to be marxists on the internet whining that a democratic government would do something as gauche and corrupt as using a mild implicit threat of force to gain compliance from a militarized capitalist monopoly engaging in a criminal act Who also practice slavery and mind control of their own.
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Apr 23, 2016 20:48
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cargohills posted:You appear to think that George Lucas is literally retarded. perhaps if George Lucas were not real, it would be necessary to invent him
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Apr 23, 2016 20:49
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The Trade Federation being 'bad' does not automatically make the Republic 'good'. I know this is a tricky level of nuance, but
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Apr 23, 2016 20:51
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cargohills posted:You appear to think that George Lucas is literally retarded. All I need to believe is two things: 1. The characters in the prequels act like blind weirdo idiots, which is not apparently in dispute by either critics or apologists. 2. That the dozens of clear and unambiguous statements by everyone involved in the films that they were creating and playing these characters as Good Guys tricked and betrayed by Bad Guys are not an elaborate ruse to trick me.
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Apr 23, 2016 20:52
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The Trade Federation being 'bad' does not automatically make the Republic 'good'. It makes it all the more important to show the republic being bad. These are the first scenes in the film we are talking about here. Slavers try to gas negotiators trying to end a disastrous and life-threatening blockade. Who are also moments away from invading.
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Apr 23, 2016 20:53
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Duel at Coruscant Temple: A Star Wars Story. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN7xAfNONJY
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Apr 23, 2016 20:56
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Tezzor posted:All I need to believe is two things: 1. The characters in the prequels act like blind weirdo idiots, which is not apparently in dispute by either critics or apologists. 2. That the dozens of clear and unambiguous statements by everyone involved in the films that they were creating and playing these characters as Good Guys tricked and betrayed by Bad Guys are not an elaborate ruse to trick me. Good guys aren't always right, and bad guys aren't always wrong. <insert joke about prequel apologists always being wrong here>
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Apr 23, 2016 20:56
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Neurolimal posted:It makes it all the more important to show the republic being bad. These are the first scenes in the film we are talking about here. Slavers try to gas negotiators trying to end a disastrous and life-threatening blockade. Who are also moments away from invading. Correct: the Trade Federation is bad. The point is that the Republic is also bad, as shown in all the films.
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Apr 23, 2016 20:57
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I am willing to be fair and note something that disagrees with my own interpretation: George does say that the Republic is actually "corrupt," which is interesting as it's something we are never shown and is told to us solely by Palpatine and Dooku who both say it in a naked attempt to manipulate someone who doesn't know a lot about it.
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Apr 23, 2016 20:58
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We're shown they're corrupt when an invasion of a world is countered by the invading force saying "nah, we're not doing that" and everyone being ok with it.
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Apr 23, 2016 21:01
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Tezzor posted:Strange as you might find it, that was actually what he set out to do. He failed incredibly; leading to our irrational idiot protagonists. This is why Tezzor isn't worth engaging with. Earlier in the thread he was arguing vehemently that George Lucas was an idiot for saying in a DVD commentary that Mace was wrong to try to assassinate Palpatine and that Anakin was right to prevent him from doing so, and that it was this confused blurring of good and evil that made Anakin susceptible to inventing rationalizations for his own evil actions. Now Tezzor is arguing that George Lucas is actually an idiot who tried to portray a virtuous Jedi Order completely without flaws or failings, and simply failed at it. Tezzor demonstrably doesn't believe a word of anything he's saying.
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Apr 23, 2016 21:01
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Tezzor posted:I am willing to be fair and note something that disagrees with my own interpretation: George does say that the Republic is actually "corrupt," which is interesting as it's something we are never shown and is told to us solely by Palpatine and Dooku. The Republic uses a slave army to commit genocide against the wookie people, onscreen.
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Apr 23, 2016 21:02
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Correct: the Trade Federation is bad. The point is that the Republic is also bad, as shown in all the films. The Republic has ended all wars through democratic representation and has lasted for a thousand years and all republic worlds we see look like fantasy utopias. If not for one guy with dark magic manipulating everybody, everything would be fine.
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Apr 23, 2016 21:02
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The Republic uses a slave army to commit genocide against the wookie people, onscreen. The Republic is fighting alongside the wookies against separatist invasion forces and the other alternative to using the clone army is either surrender to the separatists or draft real people with families
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Apr 23, 2016 21:03
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Correct: the Trade Federation is bad. The point is that the Republic is also bad, as shown in all the films. This is not presented in the scenes discussed; the original description was of jackboot thugs intimidating the slavers. This is, if not objectively, strongly suggested to not be tge case in the scenes themselved. Especially when said 'thugs' flee the base of operations after fart gas and stick robots.
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Apr 23, 2016 21:04
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Tezzor posted:The Republic has ended all wars through democratic representation and has lasted for a thousand years and all republic worlds we see look like fantasy utopias. If not for one guy with dark magic manipulating everybody, everything would be fine. Coruscant is nothing like a utopia.
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Apr 23, 2016 21:05
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computer parts posted:We're shown they're corrupt when an invasion of a world is countered by the invading force saying "nah, we're not doing that" and everyone being ok with it. Well, they sent two negotiators to rectify the situation, which they ultimately did. You can argue that the republic did not do this, bu5 the jedi order are effectively a branch of government, and the person unwilling to interfere with the invasion is voted out. By the republic.
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Apr 23, 2016 21:06
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when you really think about it, SMG and his followers are like the Jedi Order, Tezzor is a sith lord, and the rest of us are just normal folks dexter jester and aunt beru
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Apr 23, 2016 21:07
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Tezzor posted:The Republic has ended all wars through democratic representation and has lasted for a thousand years and all republic worlds we see look like fantasy utopias. If not for one guy with dark magic manipulating everybody, everything would be fine. The system is ripe for a dark magic man to come take advantage of everyone. The Republic is a big pussy waiting to be hosed.
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Apr 23, 2016 21:07
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MonsieurChoc posted:Duel at Coruscant Temple: A Star Wars Story.
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Apr 23, 2016 21:08
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And I still stand by my (long ago in this thread) argument that the clones are not slaves, but an entirely new alien race joining the republic. This does not hold up when considering TCW, but within the PT alone I believe it holds.
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Apr 23, 2016 21:08
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The best part of the prequels is Weid Al singing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEcjgJSqSRU
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Apr 23, 2016 21:08
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PBS Newshour posted:when you really think about it, SMG and his followers are like the Jedi Order, Tezzor is a sith lord, and the rest of us are just normal folks dexter jester and aunt beru I'm elan sel'sabagno, would you like to buy some death sticks?
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Apr 23, 2016 21:10
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When you think about it, a lot of TFA makes more sense if Snoke is actually a reborn Aunt Beru.
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Apr 23, 2016 21:10
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The soldiers in the The Clone Wars are literally two slave armies fighting at the behest of their evil masters (who turn out to be the same person).
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Apr 23, 2016 21:11
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