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blugu64
Jul 17, 2006

Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face?

Wasabi the J posted:

The only thing I never want to skip before a movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1NKoMNy5bY

Pretty sure this has been discussed before but that's probably a scanimate intro which are all pretty badass
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ispW6-7b2sA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4WYf2RxUJE

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GOTTA STAY FAI
Mar 24, 2005

~no glitter in the gutter~
~no twilight galaxy~
College Slice

Buttcoin purse posted:

I hear that if you just buy a cheaper, no-name brand player, they don't honor the "you can't skip this" flag.

Yeah, region-free players from overseas don't give a gently caress about UPO flags. Grab a cheap one on eBay and say goodbye to all the unskippable bullshit that plays every time you try to watch a DVD that you own legally.

i would so download a car, are you serious, how is that even a question

Pilsner
Nov 23, 2002

DVDs, talk about obsolete.

Rip/download that poo poo and play the file on a good media player.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

GOTTA STAY FAI posted:

i would so download a car, are you serious, how is that even a question
http://www.thingiverse.com/search?q=car

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


This is amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-BvMcqEc98&hd=1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eidophor

:science:

Gynocentric Regime
Jun 9, 2010

by Cyrano4747

blugu64 posted:

Pretty sure this has been discussed before but that's probably a scanimate intro which are all pretty badass
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ispW6-7b2sA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4WYf2RxUJE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiDsLRQg_g4

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos
This was the first racing game I owned

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH7iMzEHOxg

You played it using one of these:



It was intense

Keiya
Aug 22, 2009

Come with me if you want to not die.

And now you could literally hold the equivalent of everything but the lamp and color wheel in the palm of your hand. That's kind of insane.

peter gabriel posted:

This was the first racing game I owned

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH7iMzEHOxg

You played it using one of these:



It was intense

The Atari 2600 is a beautiful machine in how much people managed to force it to do. It was designed, originally, to play pong variants.

Nah, screw that, we're going to fake a 3d perspective in a racing game.

Grumbletron 4000
Nov 30, 2002

Where you want it, bitch.
College Slice

Magnus Praeda posted:

I imagine the salesman when these first came out just saying something like, "... sure, so what you're gonna do is you hold the CopyWand® in your hand and just hold the paper you're copying with your other hand as you pull the CopyWand® across. Then with your other other hand you pull the copy out like this..." :haw:

Whips out dick and starts scanning at the root. Scanner runs out of paper.

Code Jockey
Jan 24, 2006

69420 basic bytes free
That Eidophor presentation is fascinating. I can't even begin to wrap my mind around how that works.

Keiya posted:


The Atari 2600 is a beautiful machine in how much people managed to force it to do. It was designed, originally, to play pong variants.

Nah, screw that, we're going to fake a 3d perspective in a racing game.

I went to a great presentation on game design for the Atari 2600 at Magfest this year. The presenter discussed how developers had so little to work with, but made some really interesting games with it. The depth ended up being in the subtle tweaks between "modes" of the same game - sometimes even simple changes radically changed play style. It changed my perspective entirely on the 2600.

The presenter also discussed how someone went about fixing the problems with E.T. for the 2600, namely collision issues and I want to say AI problems? To do this, the programmer shaved pixels off of one of the enemy sprites, because doing so gave them just enough room to tweak the other things the way they needed to.

That blew my mind.

Buttcoin purse
Apr 24, 2014

Code Jockey posted:

The presenter also discussed how someone went about fixing the problems with E.T. for the 2600, namely collision issues and I want to say AI problems? To do this, the programmer shaved pixels off of one of the enemy sprites, because doing so gave them just enough room to tweak the other things the way they needed to.

There's a nice write-up at http://www.neocomputer.org/projects/et/ It goes into the actual machine code, but there are also some explanations, e.g.:

quote:

Why people accidentally fall in to the wells

The myth: A lot of people blame poor collision detection for this problem. That is simply not true. The collision detection in E.T. is perfect. There are no bounding boxes like in more modern games. Collision detection happens at the pixel level. You can't get any better than that. If you fall in to a well, it's because your player character visually overlaps it.

The actual problem: We don't want pixel-perfect collision detection!

The reason that people so easily fall in to wells is that they don't expect to fall when, for example, E.T.'s head overlaps a well. After all, his feet are clearly on solid ground!

E.T. uses a weird perspective not well suited for pixel-perfect collision detection. It's an overhead view, but we see E.T. and the other characters from the side. An article on tvtropes.org calls this "Three Quarters View" and describes it as a "tilted bird's eye view perspective".

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Just because the collision detection works as designed doesn't mean the design isn't poor! :bahgawd:

AlphaKretin
Dec 25, 2014

A vase to face encounter.

...Vase to meet you?

...

GARVASE DAY!

To be fair I think that's what they're trying to say.

To be unfair you don't need to cite tvtropes to explain that.

beato
Nov 26, 2004

CHILLL OUT, DICK WAD.

peter gabriel posted:

This was the first racing game I owned

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH7iMzEHOxg

You played it using one of these:



It was intense

I had a 2600 and always wanted that game. My first racing title wasn't until a bit later on the C64. Also, coincidentally, a night driving game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f969-nyklk

Keiya
Aug 22, 2009

Come with me if you want to not die.
It may well not be coincidence. The reason the Atari 2600 one is at night is because they can show just the reflective markers on the sides and imply the road and fields around it, it wouldn't surprise me if the developers of Night Racer were similarly (though to a lesser extent) cheating by not managing trees around the road when it curves, and such.

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


Code Jockey posted:

That Eidophor presentation is fascinating. I can't even begin to wrap my mind around how that works.

I mean, who even comes up with a contraption like that? And how?

Here's a semi-related video showing how mineral oil is affected by high voltage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwVi-Lf1zBw

KozmoNaut has a new favorite as of 11:53 on Apr 21, 2016

Truck Stop Daddy
Apr 17, 2013

A janitor cleans the bathroom

Muldoon

KozmoNaut posted:

I mean, who even comes up with a contraption like that? And how?

Here's a semi-related video showing how mineral oil is affected by high voltage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwVi-Lf1zBw

That eidophor video was super-interesting! I'd never even thought about early video projection before...

Resident Idiot
May 11, 2007

Maxine13
Grimey Drawer

peter gabriel posted:

This was the first racing game I owned

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH7iMzEHOxg

You played it using one of these:



It was intense

No, you used one of these IIRC:



The difference was the paddles would only let you spin so far in one direction, while the driving controller let you keep spinning in the same direction as much as you wanted (or possibly the other way around - 1978 was a *long* time ago).

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

AlphaKretin posted:

To be fair I think that's what they're trying to say.

To be unfair you don't need to cite tvtropes to explain that.

Quoting tvtropes is especially odd when there's plenty of good wikipedia articles over the subject. If it was a tv-show I could kinda understand referencing tv-tropes but its a game?

Anyways its just an isometric projection anyways. Pretty sure E.T. isn't even proper three quarters; its either isometric or oblique.

Interesting to read that ET did pixel-perfect calculation. But yeah, in an oblique perspective that's explicitly what you DO NOT want. They'd be better off using a bounding box (limited to the feet region) or even just comparing the bottom row pixels and ignoring the rest.

mostlygray
Nov 1, 2012

BURY ME AS I LIVED, A FREE MAN ON THE CLUTCH

mobby_6kl posted:

Speaking of obsolete tech, I'm typing this post right now on the update of the original PS2 MS Natural:



The only downside is with the messed up cursor keys but I got used to it after 16 years. Otherwise it keeps working fine (and feels pretty good for a rubber dome system) so I never get the motivation to shell out a Grant or two for a new keyboard.

That used to be my favorite years ago. It does have a better feel than it should. The nice thing was that you could pull the key caps really easily, disassemble the keyboard and chuck everything but the electronics in the dishwasher or just scrub them in the sink. Do that every 6 months and they last forever. Also, pop off the F1 key. You can still press it with a pen if you need to, but you don't have to deal with that incredibly irritating distraction of popping up the "Help" dialog.

Now I'm all about my Northgate Omni Key 101. It's old and tired and there's no Windows key. The "N" key needs to be replaced but I suck at soldering. It likes to double sometimes. It uses Alps switches, White I believe, but they could be Blue. I've never taken it apart. You need a key cap puller to avoid breaking them and they've been out of business for many years.

It's kind of like an IBM with buckling springs, but without the weight and a little firmer feel. You can still irritate everyone in the room with your keyboard that sounds like a Selectric. That's what's most important.

Mine looks way more worn and gross than the pretty one below. Someday I'll get a cap puller and clean it properly.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS

Zaphod42 posted:

Quoting tvtropes is especially odd when there's plenty of good wikipedia articles over the subject. If it was a tv-show I could kinda understand referencing tv-tropes but its a game?

Anyways its just an isometric projection anyways. Pretty sure E.T. isn't even proper three quarters; its either isometric or oblique.

Interesting to read that ET did pixel-perfect calculation. But yeah, in an oblique perspective that's explicitly what you DO NOT want. They'd be better off using a bounding box (limited to the feet region) or even just comparing the bottom row pixels and ignoring the rest.

Yeah, but ask yourself “what’s the lazy option”? Pixel‐by‐pixel checks aren’t the computationally easiest, or the best for player satisfaction, but they are easy to write.

As you said about the perspective, it’s ordinary. The “but objects are seen from side‐on” part comes from bad artists or poor communication with the artists. It’s not novel, it’s just poo poo.

Antifreeze Head
Jun 6, 2005

It begins
Pillbug

Buttcoin purse posted:

There's a nice write-up at http://www.neocomputer.org/projects/et/ It goes into the actual machine code, but there are also some explanations, e.g.:

This is a strange article for reasons beyond citing TV Tropes. It basically says ET is a great game, so long as you are willing to bust out the hex editor and make these 78 easy changes!

Keiya
Aug 22, 2009

Come with me if you want to not die.
ET was ambitious (it's basically a proto-Zelda in terms of exploration!), rushed, and over-produced. It's far from 'the worst game ever made', but it sure wasn't amazing enough to sell all those cartridges.

Wanamingo
Feb 22, 2008

by FactsAreUseless

No, Odo! :ohdear:

Gromit
Aug 15, 2000

I am an oppressed White Male, Asian women wont serve me! Save me Campbell Newman!!!!!!!

Platystemon posted:

Yeah, but ask yourself “what’s the lazy option”? Pixel‐by‐pixel checks aren’t the computationally easiest, or the best for player satisfaction, but they are easy to write.

As far as I recall, the Atari 2600 has specific registers that would track when a player sprite hit a missile sprite (and everything that moved on the 2600 was one or the other?), so unless you wrote your own routines all collision detection would be pixel-perfect as that's what the hardware supported natively. And with the amount of RAM available for your code, you had better have had an amazing reason to burn bytes on rolling your own.

e: and now I've read some of that E.T. link, a collision fix for it was only 20 bytes or something, so not bad at all.

Gromit has a new favorite as of 06:35 on Apr 22, 2016

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos

Gorbash posted:

No, you used one of these IIRC:



The difference was the paddles would only let you spin so far in one direction, while the driving controller let you keep spinning in the same direction as much as you wanted (or possibly the other way around - 1978 was a *long* time ago).

We only had the ones with the tennis rackets on :negative:

Humphreys
Jan 26, 2013

We conceived a way to use my mother as a porn mule


mostlygray posted:

Now I'm all about my Northgate Omni Key 101. It's old and tired and there's no Windows key.

I remember back in the win95 days removing my windows key because alt and ctrl were used in a lod of the games I played. I was just wondering 'Who the hell even uses the windows key these days?" a few minutes ago, then caught myself pressing winkey and typing cmd as a shortcut. Also showed a work experience kid last week the wonders of winkey+tab if you have multiple programs open. Blew his mind.

Shift + Delete was another good one.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Humphreys posted:

I remember back in the win95 days removing my windows key because alt and ctrl were used in a lod of the games I played. I was just wondering 'Who the hell even uses the windows key these days?" a few minutes ago, then caught myself pressing winkey and typing cmd as a shortcut. Also showed a work experience kid last week the wonders of winkey+tab if you have multiple programs open. Blew his mind.

Shift + Delete was another good one.

Just tried winkey+tab and fn+tab.

Nothing :saddowns:

Karasu Tengu
Feb 16, 2011

Humble Tengu Newspaper Reporter
Look at this nerd still on Windows 7, it's ctrl+win+tab for you.

Croccers
Jun 15, 2012
No it's Winkey + Tab, but I think you need to have Aero on and it takes a second or three to notice the first time.

Humphreys
Jan 26, 2013

We conceived a way to use my mother as a porn mule


Croccers posted:

No it's Winkey + Tab, but I think you need to have Aero on and it takes a second or three to notice the first time.

Oh - oops yeah I forgot it was only if you have aero turned on. 6 screens of windows layered over each other and tabbing through looks great, and all windows go back to their original location.

Because it's a Friday night here, I'm drunk and now looking up fast typing and watching stuff on stenography.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAkkTtsPKOA

EDIT: hahah this is a thing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9EXEpjSDEw

well why not
Feb 10, 2009




Collateral Damage posted:

:spergin:

For a rubber dome keyboard, the MS Natural 4k is pretty good, and the great ergonomics make up for it. You can't really blame the keyboard for poo poo like AltGr-8 to get a [, awkward key combos are just as bad on a straight keyboard because the scandinavian key layout is awful for coding purposes.

That said it's not without its flaws. Rubber dome keys. It's extremely wide, so your mouse ends up in an unergonomic position. The extra function keys serve no purpose (except the calculator key which is brilliant), and the zoom jog must be the most useless thing ever put on a keyboard. It rests on just six small rubber feet, which eventually lose their stickiness and cause the keyboard to start sliding around on the desk.

The Sculpt was unfortunately one step forward and two steps back. While the keys are arguably better, the ergos of Sculpt aren't as good as the 4k, they hosed up the arrow keys and Insert block, and the function keys are atrocious.

If I were to dream up the perfect keyboard, it would be a MS Natural 4k but wireless, with high quality mechanical keys and the numeric keypad lopped off to a separate unit. Remove the dumb zoom jog and replace it with a trackpoint nub. Also give it larger, more durable rubber feet.

end :spergin:

This is similar to what you're describing, except scissor keys:

http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Erg...csubtag=WC30274

I used a 4k every work day for the last 4 - 5 years. It is battleworn and a bit tattered on the 'leather' wrist portion. Other keyboards now feel small and uncomfortable. I'm ok with the mac wireless model I use at home, but I don't do a lot of typing on it.

There's many upsides and downsides to this weird keyboard:

Other people flat out refuse to use it, meaning my computer is secure and if I'm working with another dev, I control the speed of what we're doing - so if there's something to be entered in, I get to do it and ask questions, rather than watch someone punch in code.

The split layout is definitely more ergonomic. I had wrist pain and it basically evaporated once my 4k showed up. I can't guarantee it'd work for everyone, but it works for me.

The media keys are fine (it lacks a next/prev) and the calculator button is a godsend. I don't understand the little joystick at all - I tried to map it to browser scroll, but it really wants to zoom. I suppose that's fairly 'accessible'.

It's wired, which means no batteries to be replaced. I hate wasteful batteries and rechargeable are silly.

The 'leather' surface is pretty comfy, but quickly changed appearance under goonsweat in a hot office. More reason for people to avoid using it, I guess. Cleaning the entire board is no small task.

It's loving challenging to use. Really, the learning curve is a month of regular use. I still hit the wrong keys (the number row is particularly bad - off the top of my head, I couldn't tell you where the spllit is. Is it between 6 & 7 or 7 & 8 ?

If it died tomorrow I'd order a Sculpt to try and a 4k to use if that sucks. I've actually thought about buying a stockpile of 4ks, in case they're discontinued.

ZenMaster
Jan 24, 2006

I Saved PC Gaming

peter gabriel posted:

We only had the ones with the tennis rackets on :negative:

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

well why not posted:

This is similar to what you're describing, except scissor keys:

http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Erg...csubtag=WC30274

Collateral Damage posted:

The Sculpt was unfortunately one step forward and two steps back. While the keys are arguably better, the ergos of Sculpt aren't as good as the 4k, they hosed up the arrow keys and Insert block, and the function keys are atrocious.
The function keys were the killer for me. They're very stiff membrane type keys, and I work daily in applications that make quite heavy use of the function keys, so having them an afterthought like they seem to be on the Sculpt doesn't cut it. Also I hate the non-standard position and layout of the arrow and navigation key blocks.


well why not posted:

The split layout is definitely more ergonomic. I had wrist pain and it basically evaporated once my 4k showed up. I can't guarantee it'd work for everyone, but it works for me.

It's loving challenging to use. Really, the learning curve is a month of regular use. I still hit the wrong keys (the number row is particularly bad - off the top of my head, I couldn't tell you where the spllit is. Is it between 6 & 7 or 7 & 8 ?
I had the same issue. Years of using a straight keyboard had hosed my wrists pretty badly, but since I got the Ergo 4k I rarely feel anything.

For me I adapted to it in a little under a week of regular use. Starting out with decent touch typing skills probably helps a lot though. The only thing I really had to retrain was that I used to hit B with my right index finger.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe
Microsoft 4000 > * except perhaps that Kinesis thing.

This was posted by Jeff "Discourse" Atwood in 2005:

http://blog.codinghorror.com/keyboarding-microsoft-natural-ergonomic-4000/

which is why it's so weird that he ended up creating this:

http://blog.codinghorror.com/the-code-keyboard/

poo poo, I know this is an OEM where you just slap on the name and poo poo, but go the extra goddamn mile and at least make it a split keyboard like the 4000.

IMHO the fact we know wrist pain is a thing I'd say any non-split or non-curved layout is obsolete and just there because it's so drat cheap.

TITTIEKISSER69
Mar 19, 2005

SAVE THE BEES
PLANT MORE TREES
CLEAN THE SEAS
KISS TITTIESS




Any love for the Datadesk SmartBoard?

boar guy
Jan 25, 2007

Wilford Cutlery posted:

Any love for the Datadesk SmartBoard?

I used to train cops and firemen how to fill out their online timecard using one of those. I liked it fine but I think they had lots of problems.

Light Gun Man
Oct 17, 2009

toEjaM iS oN
vaCatioN




Lipstick Apathy
I've got a family member who only likes keyboards with the split spacebar / backspace key. That poo poo is uncommon as gently caress and I had a hell of a time finding her a new one a couple years ago.

Only one I know that has it right now is the Microsoft Sculpt Comfort Desktop.

Keiya
Aug 22, 2009

Come with me if you want to not die.
Just get them one of these, no one can screw up on those.

(They're actually very useful for environments where you might have to type something while wearing thick gloves, and apparently also in education and motor-impaired individuals.)

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Buttcoin purse
Apr 24, 2014

Light Gun Man posted:

I've got a family member who only likes keyboards with the split spacebar / backspace key. That poo poo is uncommon as gently caress and I had a hell of a time finding her a new one a couple years ago.

:barf: I think I threw out quite a few of these, I think they came with Compaq PCs in the early '90s.

I suppose it makes sense, the spacebar probably doesn't really need to be that big, but oh well it's not what I'm used to, and I didn't feel the need to change just because Compaq thought I should.

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