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Dapper_Swindler posted:so when are they going to go full isolationist and become the "hermit kingdom" of south america? As soon as South America, China, etc drop all support for the regime, maybe? Since South America has been electing center-right governments across the board over the past couple years, I can't imagine their few good, regional international relationships won't turn sour. And China seems to have gotten tired of their relationship recently too. Does the Venezuelan government still have any significant international friends who are supporting it? The more I read the more it looks like everyone has cut them off or is weaning them off. E: Lol, it looks like the US is their biggest trading partner*? And that the US has a substantial trade -deficit- with Venezuela? *this doesn't count all the illegal trade of subsidized through Colombia, which must be absolutely massive. Saladman fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Apr 24, 2016 |
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Apr 24, 2016 20:10
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Cuba, Bolivia, Ecuador and Nicaragua. Basically all the countries which have governments that got cheered on by the people who used to cheer on Chavez in these threads.
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Apr 24, 2016 20:25
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btw I wonder why OPEC are still a thing, they never seem to agree on anything and they seem completely powerless and without influence, these days Saudi Arabia just do whatever the U.S tell them or whatever they think its best for them while the other members get hosed.
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Apr 24, 2016 20:34
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El Hefe posted:btw I wonder why OPEC are still a thing, they never seem to agree on anything and they seem completely powerless and without influence, these days Saudi Arabia just do whatever the U.S tell them or whatever they think its best for them while the other members get hosed. I think they're mostly hoping that production at non-OPEC countries will manage to fall low enough for them to have market control again.
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Apr 24, 2016 20:38
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Cliff Racer posted:Cuba, Bolivia, Ecuador and Nicaragua. Basically all the countries which have governments that got cheered on by the people who used to cheer on Chavez in these threads. arnt most of those countries in deep poo poo too. especially Nicaragua? I mean gently caress, didnt the circlejerk known as ALBA fall flat on its face.
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Apr 24, 2016 21:12
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Dapper_Swindler posted:arnt most of those countries in deep poo poo too. especially Nicaragua? I mean gently caress, didnt the circlejerk known as ALBA fall flat on its face. Bolivia is... fine. Probably. Right now. 2020 could be a bit exciting, when Morales' term runs out. We all know how Cuba's doing.  Ecuador just got pretty mauled by an earthquake. Other than that, though, it's really gotten its feet under it in the last decade or so.  There might be some moderate storms on the international lending horizon, hopefully they won't sell too much of the country to keep the bankers happy.Nicaragua is considerably less fine. None of them really have buckets of money to spend keeping Venezuela afloat.
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Apr 24, 2016 21:48
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Yup, doesn't seem like it. But boy did we give them a bunch of loving money for free, though.
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Apr 24, 2016 21:59
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I think the general passivity in the face of the erosion of human rights in Venezuela is the worst thing to have happened in Latin America this side of having the entire continent covered in military juntas. The entire point was to not revert to this crap. It's extremely disappointing and leaves me feeling sad any time anyone mentions any sort of regional body.
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Apr 24, 2016 22:21
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Labradoodle posted:On a different subject from my regular venting, I thought I'd try my luck here to see if anyone has any helpful leads. One of my best friends is a brilliant electrical engineer who's currently about to lose his job since Schlumberger is bailing out of the country (alongside Halliburton) and while I'm a pro at freelancing, I've got no clue where a proper professional could turn to in order to find a new job. Do any of you know which are the best places where he could upload his resume or otherwise look for a new job overseas? Come to Norway, we're always looking for engineers (although the oil crash has dampened that somewhat). Tell your buddy to check out https://www.nav.no So, uh, I never did that effortpost on my archaeological fieldwork in Pto. Ayacucho in August (and we returned in February-March for a second round). Our university, however, has a short write-up and video here Edit: I'd be happy to answer any questions about our research Vlex fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Apr 24, 2016 |
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Apr 24, 2016 22:32
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Ghost of Mussolini posted:I think the general passivity in the face of the erosion of human rights in Venezuela is the worst thing to have happened in Latin America this side of having the entire continent covered in military juntas. The entire point was to not revert to this crap. It's extremely disappointing and leaves me feeling sad any time anyone mentions any sort of regional body. Human rights are extremely important when right-wing governments violate them and are a tool of the CIA when left-wing governments violate them.
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Apr 24, 2016 22:53
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Here my fellow venegoons can find out at which time to expect their power to go out http://mppee.gob.ve/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/PLAN-DE-ADMINISTRACION-DE-CARGAS.pdf I get it at 4am until 8am this Monday so fun
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Apr 25, 2016 05:33
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El Hefe posted:Here my fellow venegoons can find out at which time to expect their power to go out
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Apr 25, 2016 07:22
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El Hefe posted:Here my fellow venegoons can find out at which time to expect their power to go out I'll tell my Mom.... No, wait, she lives in Caracas, nevermind!
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Apr 25, 2016 07:53
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Labradoodle posted:Where no one will buy from you because they won't be able to afford your prices even if you sold them at face value. Even if you sold your beers at $1 buck a pop that'd still be a little bit over a tenth of a Venezuelan's monthly wage. For example, I just had a beer at a place near my home and when the bill came I was surprised to find it cost Bs500 (freaking Zulia beers, I take back what I said earlier), which is approximately 1/20th of a monthly wage. I could've had a cheaper beer at like Bs200-300 but I didn't think it'd be that expensive. That's fine, I can just trade the beer for cheap gas 
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Apr 25, 2016 10:30
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according to news, there was no bread nor wheat flour nor corn flour today in most of caracas!
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Apr 25, 2016 22:08
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The Tribunal Supremo de Justicia [Supreme Court] issued another ruling today, this one dealing with the matter of the constitutional amendment. Aside from the recall referendum, the opposition said that it was going to amend the constitution to decrease presidential terms from the current six years down to four. In so doing, the amendment would trigger an election in December, since Maduro's term would be ending in 2017 instead of 2019. Without even waiting for the opposition to put the amendment down on paper, the TSJ ruled today that the amendment would not come into effect immediately, but that it would instead affect only future presidential terms. In other words, even if the amendment were approved today, Maduro would still be allowed to serve his term til 2019. Part of the TSJ ruling reads: quote:The Constitutional Chamber concludes that using a constitutional amendment with the goal of immediately shortening the term of an [elected official], as is the President of the Republic, is Constitutional fraud. [The Constitution] includes an effective mechanism for that same goal, which is the recall referendum... The recall referendum has to go through the CNE, which has so far denied three requests by the opposition to start the recall process, and is currently sitting on the fourth for absolutely no reason other than running down the clock. Unless the PSUV is purposely trying to get people killed, this is seriously going to backfire one them on day. They're systematically shutting down all of the peaceful, constitutional means for achieving change.
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Apr 25, 2016 22:47
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Chuck Boone posted:The Tribunal Supremo de Justicia [Supreme Court] issued another ruling today, this one dealing with the matter of the constitutional amendment. The ruling on term lengths is one of the few rulings I can actually understand, since I think if he'd used a constitutional amendment before the last election to increase his term to eight years that would have been bullshit too (this is why Putin went through the pretense of being prime minister under Medvedev instead of just altering the constitution while he was president in Russia). I don't know if this actually makes sense in terms of Venezuelan constitutional law, and as a practical matter it would really have been a good opportunity for Maduro to bow out at least a little gracefully instead of continuing to destroy his country for years, but ex post facto laws aren't great as a rule. Of course neither are coups or popular revolutions, and those are probably the alternatives at this point, so again I'm not saying as a practical matter that this is a good thing at all. Allowing the referendum would be the best option, of course. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Apr 25, 2016 |
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Apr 25, 2016 22:53
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Celexi posted:according to news, there was no bread nor wheat flour nor corn flour today in most of caracas! Those drat price-gouging capitalists!
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Apr 25, 2016 23:00
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Celexi posted:according to news, there was no bread nor wheat flour nor corn flour today in most of caracas! Balls. Stay safe venegoons.
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Apr 25, 2016 23:09
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Sinteres posted:The ruling on term lengths is one of the few rulings I can actually understand, since I think if he'd used a constitutional amendment before the last election to increase his term to eight years that would have been bullshit too (this is why Putin went through the pretense of being prime minister under Medvedev instead of just altering the constitution while he was president in Russia). I don't know if this actually makes sense in terms of Venezuelan constitutional law, and as a practical matter it would really have been a good opportunity for Maduro to bow out at least a little gracefully instead of continuing to destroy his country for years, but ex post facto laws aren't great as a rule. Of course neither are coups or popular revolutions, and those are probably the alternatives at this point, so again I'm not saying as a practical matter that this is a good thing at all. Allowing the referendum would be the best option, of course. You make really good points, and I agree with you in principle with the caveat that in the Venezuelan context, the situation gets a lot murkier. As a ruling in and of itself, I agree that this decision does make sense for the reasons that you've outlined. However, this ruling cannot be understood as a single piece of jurisprudence; it's one of 11 Supreme Court rulings since December 30 that target and severely limit the National Assembly's ability to do the things the Venezuelan electorate voted for. Not to mention the fact that the decision rules on a matter that hasn't even yet taken form. The National Assembly hasn't even put the amendment on paper, so without even reading it we get a ruling saying "Nope, you can't do this". I would also argue that the only reason the opposition came up with this plan in the first place is precisely because the Venezuelan voters saw themselves being squeezed into an increasingly smaller sphere of legal action against the PSUV. The government's been shutting doors like this for a while now. The amendment was one of the very few - albeit, as you've pointed out, perhaps flawed - ways that the country had for getting the people who've driven the country off the cliff out of power. When you push someone into a corner, you limit the kinds of actions they can take to get out of it.
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Apr 25, 2016 23:32
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The Lone Badger posted:Those drat price-gouging capitalists!
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Apr 25, 2016 23:39
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Cicero posted:Clearly they've found a way to make money by not selling anything, the clever little bastards! Can't lose money if you're not forced to sell at a loss. 
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Apr 25, 2016 23:47
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The government are trying their hardest to make Polar shutdown, it's clear now the PSUV are all insane.
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Apr 26, 2016 00:12
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The people betrayed the peoples revolution by not voting for us. - the psuv
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Apr 26, 2016 01:00
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Chuck Boone posted:You make really good points, and I agree with you in principle with the caveat that in the Venezuelan context, the situation gets a lot murkier. I completely agree with all of that. The Supreme Court is obviously out of control, and the PSUV doesn't seem to be making much effort to even maintain the pretense that they're governing legitimately anymore. It really seems like a 'so what are you going to do about it?' situation at this point, which is really sad since the opposition has made extensive good faith efforts to do things the right way (or, in the case of this amendment, as close to a right way as possible while exhausting all plausible alternatives). The fact that this particular amendment may have been questionable doesn't take away from the reality that barring all legal avenues of change in the Venezuelan political system leaves only extra-legal options, which is a tragedy for the country. As an outsider, it's really sad to watch, and I can really only hope that the continually worsening situation reported in this thread shames some of the elites supporting the PSUV to withdraw that support and ideally force an end to this nightmare without bloodshed.
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Apr 26, 2016 01:49
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Labradoodle posted:On a different subject from my regular venting, I thought I'd try my luck here to see if anyone has any helpful leads. One of my best friends is a brilliant electrical engineer who's currently about to lose his job since Schlumberger is bailing out of the country (alongside Halliburton) and while I'm a pro at freelancing, I've got no clue where a proper professional could turn to in order to find a new job. Do any of you know which are the best places where he could upload his resume or otherwise look for a new job overseas? Schlumberger just invested a on of money for oil extraction in Ecuador, I believe. Maybe he can look into that?
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Apr 26, 2016 03:49
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Chuck Boone posted:The Tribunal Supremo de Justicia [Supreme Court] issued another ruling today, this one dealing with the matter of the constitutional amendment. So innovate and beat them at the Calvinball game through unexpected moves. All else fails, invite the majority of the TSJ to the olympics in Rio on the same chartered jet as the Venezuelan national soccer team. Sinteres posted:I completely agree with all of that. The Supreme Court is obviously out of control, and the PSUV doesn't seem to be making much effort to even maintain the pretense that they're governing legitimately anymore. It really seems like a 'so what are you going to do about it?' situation at this point, which is really sad since the opposition has made extensive good faith efforts to do things the right way (or, in the case of this amendment, as close to a right way as possible while exhausting all plausible alternatives). The fact that this particular amendment may have been questionable doesn't take away from the reality that barring all legal avenues of change in the Venezuelan political system leaves only extra-legal options, which is a tragedy for the country. So what you do is, as a collective body, the National Assembly should move to a friendly border province in which Maduro's reach is limited and begin the business of no-poo poo actual governance. Who determines the location of the capital of Venezuela? The National Assembly, along the border, and if TSJ and all the other institutions refuse to migrate ahead of time, then the only constitutional process is for the National Assembly to appoint its own TSJ. My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Apr 26, 2016 |
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Apr 26, 2016 06:13
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Venezuela, like a great very many other countries, has most of its population concentrated into metropolitan belts along the coast. Physical control of Caracas is non-negotiable for governance.
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Apr 26, 2016 06:54
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ronya posted:Venezuela, like a great very many other countries, has most of its population concentrated into metropolitan belts along the coast. Physical control of Caracas is non-negotiable for governance. As Liberia shows, if you want to govern a nation, condemn the dictators to the urban areas and force them to feed the people whilst you control the resources.
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Apr 26, 2016 07:53
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Vlex posted:Come to Norway, we're always looking for engineers (although the oil crash has dampened that somewhat). Tell your buddy to check out https://www.nav.no Guacamayo posted:Schlumberger just invested a on of money for oil extraction in Ecuador, I believe. Maybe he can look into that? Thanks for your suggestion! The Electoral Council just agreed to allow the MUD to (once again) collect signatures in order to activate the recall referendum on Maduro. They were dragging their feet about verifying information and poo poo, and the MUD in return planned a series of protests throughout the entire country tomorrow to pressure them. I'm curious if the protests will still go since it's only a day in advance and a lot of people might not find out about the CNE caving in. That's only the first step. Now the MUD needs to gather the signatures of 1% of all registered voters in order for the Electoral Council to call for the recall process itself. To summarize, the Electoral Council asked for signatures in order to enable the MUD to ask for MORE signatures just so the process can get underway. They then took weeks to 'verify' the signatures that were collected, whereas last year they verified approximately 10 million signatures against Obama in a single day. That last part wasn't a joke BTW, that poo poo actually happened.
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Apr 26, 2016 18:20
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Quick reminder that the last time a recall referendum actually happened: - The entire process took about a year. - People had to sign up to three times. - Chávez openly threatened people who would sign for the recall referendum ("Whomever signs against Chávez, will be registered for history. They'll have to put their name, address, signature, ID number and fingerprint.") - The CNE gave the list of signatories to the government, which it would then use to fire thousands of public employees.
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Apr 26, 2016 18:55
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beer_war posted:Quick reminder that the last time a recall referendum actually happened: And to add to the last point: There are people that are still forbidden up to this date to enter many Public Service Offices because they signed in favor of that recall referendum.
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Apr 26, 2016 19:43
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The CNE cooperated obviously as a way to throw them off from the protests they organized tomorrow in front of the CNE buildings. There is still no guarantee that the CNE can delay the process even further, so if I were the opposition, I would keep on pressing them to work faster. fnox fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Apr 26, 2016 |
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Apr 26, 2016 19:48
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AstraSage posted:And to add to the last point: There are people that are still forbidden up to this date to enter many Public Service Offices because they signed in favor of that recall referendum. Solution: Establish democratic institutions of governance and Public Service Offices in the remaining governable regions of Venezuela. Establish legitimacy and show the rest of your nation how much better their lives would be without PSUV dictatorship. Y'all are the new Soviet Union, living in a hellhole of bureaucratic dictatorship.
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Apr 26, 2016 21:13
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Correction to my earlier post. The electoral council requires a collection of signatures in order to authorize the subsequent collection of 1% of the signatures of registered voters, which in turn authorizes the collection of 20% of the signatures of registered voters , and only then will they call for the recall itself, which would require nearly 8 million votes to unseat Maduro. The whole thing is just bananas at this point, it's like they hope that if they make people sign enough times before the actual vote they'll develop carpal tunnel and won't be able to operate the machines.
Labradoodle fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Apr 26, 2016 |
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Apr 26, 2016 21:56
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Remember how cocky Chavez was during the last referendum? It was because he knew he was going to win it because back then he still had the support of the people, but right now the PSUV knows they are going to lose and that's why they are stalling this as much as possible.
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Apr 26, 2016 22:31
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There is a point at which complying with the illegitimate orders of the anti-democratic occupation government of Venezuela becomes collaboration. The elected legislature needs to have the courage to follow through on its mandate. also Kill All Communists btw
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Apr 26, 2016 23:17
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they just gave Wednesday and Thursday off to all government employees in addition to Friday, Saturday and Sunday, meaning they only have to go to work twice a week... I don't know whether to laugh or cry
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Apr 26, 2016 23:34
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Thats easy, are you a goverment employee?; If not get a
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Apr 26, 2016 23:39
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El Hefe posted:they just gave Wednesday and Thursday off to all government employees in addition to Friday, Saturday and Sunday, meaning they only have to go to work twice a week... Unless I'm mistaken, that means the electoral council just bought themselves almost four months to review the 1% of signatures collected, and then an additional four months to review the subsequent 20%. The Onion or the Chiguire couldn't make this poo poo up.
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Apr 26, 2016 23:41
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