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enraged_camel posted:how old is the actor anyway? maybe it's the lighting, but he looks noticeably younger in the bottom ones. he's 31.
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Apr 24, 2016 18:51
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Troposphere posted:he's 31. Bob is handsome as hell. Like, in a cast full of pretty people he stands out quite a bit.
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Apr 24, 2016 18:53
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It'd be great if troposphere and enraged_camel had thread to argue until one of them won.
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Apr 24, 2016 18:57
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There's just been some major narrative missteps in this season that could cause a fan to quit watching besides the whole lesbigate thing. Everything having to do with Pike and his faction rubbed me the wrong way to the point that I'd just start checking my phone for something to read while that was particular plot was happening, and I almost never do that for shows I'm invested in. They should have started crossing over the Arkadia/AI plots earlier in the season (seriously it's beyond stupid that Jaha's camp didn't start sneakily chipping the faction in power earlier, it's not like Abigail's oversight extended that far). Lincoln and Sinclair's deaths really did seem like the showrunners are just checking off people to kill to up the stakes. I really like how things are progressing at the moment, but there were a lot of bumps along the road.
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Apr 24, 2016 18:58
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Troposphere posted:I still can't believe they didn't have Pike kill her to tie the two plot threads together and get Clarke back in the action. or even something like Alie taking over and forcing the chip out of her. instead we got woops your father figure accidentally shot you right after you had sex with your girlfriend he didn't approve of! Emerson finds out Clarke cares for Lexa and poisons her to die in a melty way. Ties in nicely with the mountain genocide not going away even though Clarke went walkabout. Escapees of the Trikru massacre have some kind of suicide attack to punish her for letting the 13th clan join and gently caress them over because Arkadia didn't give up Pike in time for an ultimatum. She goes down swinging and Clarke escapes with just the chip. Lexa and Clarke go to Arkadia to negociate/deliver an ultimatum after the Trikru massacre. Arkadia splits into two factions and it gets very bloody. ALIE finds out that her AI counterpart is in the commander, Lexa fights a bunch of brainwashed drones, dies, Clarke gets out with just the chip. I'm just spitballing here. So many other ways to kill a character that was going to die but without involving a gun-ex-machina right after a hookup , that have better ties to the universe AND are more in character.
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Apr 24, 2016 19:00
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hope and vaseline posted:There's just been some major narrative missteps in this season that could cause a fan to quit watching besides the whole lesbigate thing. Everything having to do with Pike and his faction rubbed me the wrong way to the point that I'd just start checking my phone for something to read while that was particular plot was happening, and I almost never do that for shows I'm invested in. They should have started crossing over the Arkadia/AI plots earlier in the season (seriously it's beyond stupid that Jaha's camp didn't start sneakily chipping the faction in power earlier, it's not like Abigail's oversight extended that far). Lincoln and Sinclair's deaths really did seem like the showrunners are just checking off people to kill to up the stakes. Well, Abby got suspicious when Raven was chipped and she talked to Jaha and he didn't remember Wells' name. She told Pike, and Pike took Jaha's chipmaker and locked it up. There was a whole bit where Raven enlisted Jasper to help her get it because he wanted his pain gone too and Jaha/ALIE really needed the chipmaker back. I assume that when Pike finally left Arkadia to follow Monty and trap Kane that Jaha got his chipmaker back and then Arkadia fell. That part, at least, always made sense to me. Pike's rise to power was just too fast, or they just told us about it too much rather than taking the time to show us.
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Apr 24, 2016 19:03
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hollylolly posted:Pike's rise to power was just too fast, or they just told us about it too much rather than taking the time to show us. I actually kind of liked the fact that he gained control before Abby and Kane realized what was really going on. They were too busy trying to become the 13th clan, and completely overlooked the fact that Pike was scheming behind their back. When Mt. Weather finally blew up and killed everyone in it, that was their equivalent of 9/11: all sense went out the window and an extremist took over. I think they could have spread it over a few more episodes, but the season only has 16 total and plot points had to be kept kind of tight.
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Apr 24, 2016 19:07
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Ah, I completely forgot about them confiscating the chipmaker. I just remembered Abby shutting down their public operation/cult recruitment.
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Apr 24, 2016 19:09
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enraged_camel posted:I actually kind of liked the fact that he gained control before Abby and Kane realized what was really going on. They were too busy trying to become the 13th clan, and completely overlooked the fact that Pike was scheming behind their back. When Mt. Weather finally blew up and killed everyone in it, that was their equivalent of 9/11: all sense went out the window and an extremist took over. I pretty much agree - I think just one more episode could have helped it feel a little more organic. I would have liked to see some Farm Station flashbacks like the episode Lost gave to the Tail section. Then cap that with Kane coming into the brig and telling Pike he's the new Chancellor, after we've watched him turn from the Earth Skills instructor everyone remembers and loves, to Pike the Extremist.
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Apr 24, 2016 19:25
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hollylolly posted:I pretty much agree - I think just one more episode could have helped it feel a little more organic. I would have liked to see some Farm Station flashbacks like the episode Lost gave to the Tail section. Then cap that with Kane coming into the brig and telling Pike he's the new Chancellor, after we've watched him turn from the Earth Skills instructor everyone remembers and loves, to Pike the Extremist. Yeah, it was very out of the blue. I feel they could have sacrificed the second Emerson plot (or the first) for some flashbacks or even just some exposure by hearing Monty's mom and Pike talking about the past...
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Apr 24, 2016 19:39
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Troposphere posted:the main character is a bisexual who is always miserable and everyone she loves dies because of her. that's not the best representation. While for everybody else in the show it's been a cakewalk.
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Apr 24, 2016 19:44
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enraged_camel posted:I actually kind of liked the fact that he gained control before Abby and Kane realized what was really going on. They were too busy trying to become the 13th clan, and completely overlooked the fact that Pike was scheming behind their back. When Mt. Weather finally blew up and killed everyone in it, that was their equivalent of 9/11: all sense went out the window and an extremist took over. The problem with Pike is that his rise-to-power arc hinged entirely on the background army of redshirts who have been pretty much invisible and expendable for the entirety of the show. It's like there was a plot that happened entirely off-screen, and we only saw a couple of minutes of it at the end. That's not compelling storytelling, that's just clumsiness.
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Apr 24, 2016 19:49
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steinrokkan posted:The problem with Pike is that his rise-to-power arc hinged entirely on the background army of redshirts who have been pretty much invisible and expendable for the entirety of the show. It's like there was a plot that happened entirely off-screen, and we only saw a couple of minutes of it at the end. That's not compelling storytelling, that's just clumsiness. Yeah, he was elected by a group of people who basically don't exist on the show. Something I think they really should have played up more for Bellamy is the Ice Kingdom girl who lead them into the trap at Polis. They really should have had Bellamy reference that more as part of his new distrust of Grounders. Like have him say "This Grounder who's life (he) saved turned right around and betrayed them, we can't trust any of them." Instead he just kind of blustered whenever anyone brought it up.
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Apr 24, 2016 20:05
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steinrokkan posted:The problem with Pike is that his rise-to-power arc hinged entirely on the background army of redshirts who have been pretty much invisible and expendable for the entirety of the show. It's like there was a plot that happened entirely off-screen, and we only saw a couple of minutes of it at the end. That's not compelling storytelling, that's just clumsiness. I agree it was clumsy, but like I said, the season has only 16 episodes. It's very likely they had more exposure planned but had to scrap it because there's just so much stuff going on. This is why I always disagree with people who say 22+ episodes per season is too many. 
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Apr 24, 2016 20:05
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enraged_camel posted:she was already a badass when alive. i have trouble caring that she died in a non-badass way. Yeah, and reducing it to a "stray bullet" seems a little dismissive since it makes it sound like she was just sitting around and caught some crossfire from a drug shoot out. In reality the events that led to her being shot were all about the political quagmire that Lexa had created with her relationship with Clarke and support of the Sky People. So sure, she wasn't killed by all those people intentionally trying to kill her because of that stuff but she still died because someone was acting rashly because of all of that stuff. Thematically I actually like that Lexa was able to fight off all the threats that she knew were coming for her but then it was the mess inside her camp that she had created that ended up costing her her life. It hammers home how dramatically Lexa was changing things and how complicated that really was. enraged_camel posted:I actually kind of liked the fact that he gained control before Abby and Kane realized what was really going on. They were too busy trying to become the 13th clan, and completely overlooked the fact that Pike was scheming behind their back. When Mt. Weather finally blew up and killed everyone in it, that was their equivalent of 9/11: all sense went out the window and an extremist took over. Yeah I liked that part too. Kane and Abby have spent so much time dealing with the external politics and constant crisis that they lost all sense of what the people of Arkadia were thinking or looking for. Along comes this extremist who says "all this poo poo that's happened is because of THEM" and boom, the thing that's happened countless times in world history happens. Pike's not a super deep character but that almost seems by design. Kane and Abby gave him a lot of leeway because they remembered a good guy from the Ark and they underestimated how extreme he had really gotten. Them being surprised by all of this is mirrored by us not seeing it coming from a mile away. I don't know if it worked that way since Pike was pretty clearly an antagonist from the start but I definitely understand why the show wanted him taking power to happen quickly before we had fully explored his mindset. I mean, maybe it would have worked better if they had spent an episode on the election. But I really liked that the election happened in the background because from the main characters' POVs it WAS a background issue since they had just been trading the title back and forth all series long. Its a bit like the Lexa thing. They lost sight of all the things their actions were affecting and all the ways it could come back to bite them. Troposphere posted:whatever helps you sleep at night I guess? n3wt posted:If a major character on The Walking Dead was left with no lines all season then killed off and other fan favourite choked on an apple core unceremoniously and the others were acting out of character then people would notice and be upset.
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Apr 24, 2016 20:21
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STAC Goat posted:
Seen like that, I'm more accepting of the hamfisted way they wrote her out (even if that means ignoring what the idiot head writer has been putting out on twitter). I do want to like this show, it's just not easy seeing all that built up potential be squandered. Like many, I was just bored by the Pike and Ontari storylines and dissapointed that they went for the classic "extremist takes power" story when these are folks who have had it drilled into them that unity is survival, everyone's skills are important etc...and Kane was bringing Arkadia into a fascinating new dynamic with the grounders as we discover that they do actually have an established civilisation as seen on the trip to Polis. That and the fact that Farm station and their anti grounder hate was just folded in with no emotional investment for us, the viewers. S3 has been a mess of overused tropes. You're right, I have no clue about The Walking Dead! I was looking for a popular show to put in a slot and really shouldn't have chosen one set in a dystopia that follows a comic book as I'm guessing there are probably some pretty radical character changes and sudden deaths. Yikes!
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Apr 24, 2016 21:07
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The show did have a rough patch early this season but I would hardly call it "squandered potential". I mean, poo poo, you should watch The Flash or The Arrow if you want to see what that phrase really means.
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Apr 24, 2016 21:11
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enraged_camel posted:This is why I always disagree with people who say 22+ episodes per season is too many. It really depends on the kind of show. Seasons 1 and 2 were paced pretty perfectly for the amount of episodes they got. This season's just had too much going on and every overarching plot has suffered for it.
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Apr 24, 2016 21:39
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enraged_camel posted:The show did have a rough patch early this season but I would hardly call it "squandered potential". I got "Comic Book character type shows" burnout back when Alphas got cancelled after Smallville went off the rails and Heroes turned into a garbage fire. Not even going to try Arrow or the Flash. Sorry not sorry. Jessica Jones was my last foray into the genre and only because it got excellent reviews. To be honest, The 100 would have never been on my radar (because CW) if friends hadn't raved about it and got me hooked as hell. Guess I'm slowly turning into the old man yelling at a cloud when it comes to TV, spoiled by the good stuff with little patience for the crap. Last month I binge-watched Star Trek Enterprise (I was told it got better- the pace picks up but it's still the worst) and I think itwas so bad that broke my ability to put up with various plot devices for the sake of drama. Maybe Gen X and Y got spoiled for good TV and still is spoiled with the multitude of series on offer...
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Apr 24, 2016 21:41
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If they wanted, they could've drawn out the take down of Pike and made it more eventful for the finale, then cliffhangered much of the Alie plot for S4, but no matter.
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Apr 24, 2016 21:42
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n3wt posted:They were sold one thing and got another - so they quit. Happens all the time on TV.  Troposphere posted:the main character is a bisexual who is always miserable and everyone she loves dies because of her. that's not the best representation. But Clarke isn't miserable because she's bisexual. Her sexuality is literally a non issue. Would it be more progressive if Abby gave her a hard time because she heard Clarke had a girlfriend?
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Apr 25, 2016 00:06
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Astroman posted:But Clarke isn't miserable because she's bisexual. Her sexuality is literally a non issue. Would it be more progressive if Abby gave her a hard time because she heard Clarke had a girlfriend? No? What she's saying is the issue with a lot of LGBT representation in media is that it's used as a plot device for DRAMATIC THINGS to happen instead of just being a part of their character, and The 100 is unfortunately no exception to that. Admittedly it is true that this is a pretty rough show to be in as a character in general, but as has already been said the problem with tropes isn't their individual use in a vacuum, the problem comes from the fact that it's so widespread. Plus like people have already discussed there's legitimate complaints to be had about the way her death was handled so yeah. Also this is off on a tangent a bit but since it's semi-relevant I don't really agree at all with the idea that's been passed around in this thread during this whole argument that Lexa was a side character? She was only in a fraction of the episodes but she was a preeeetty major player during that time, that's like saying Gus was a side character in Breaking Bad. I dunno I'm just thinking out loud mostly 
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Apr 25, 2016 00:30
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Monicro posted:No? What she's saying is the issue with a lot of LGBT representation in media is that it's used as a plot device for DRAMATIC THINGS to happen instead of just being a part of their character, and The 100 is unfortunately no exception to that. Admittedly it is true that this is a pretty rough show to be in as a character in general, but as has already been said the problem with tropes isn't their individual use in a vacuum, the problem comes from the fact that it's so widespread. Plus like people have already discussed there's legitimate complaints to be had about the way her death was handled so yeah. The 100 has a ton of gay people whose being gay is literally just part of their character and nbd. Not once has a character ever pointed out someone is gay on this show like it's some surprise.
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Apr 25, 2016 00:34
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All this crybaby poo poo that nobody wants to read and everyone forgets about Miller, aka the best character. It's always a good time when it's Miller time.
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Apr 25, 2016 00:35
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esperterra posted:The 100 has a ton of gay people whose being gay is literally just part of their character and nbd. Not once has a character ever pointed out someone is gay on this show like it's some surprise. since when is three considered a ton?
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Apr 25, 2016 00:40
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Troposphere posted:since when is three considered a ton? Three? - Lexa - Clarke - The trader girl - Nathan - Bryan And more importantly, it's a much greater representation, proportional to the cast as a whole, than the general population, which puts LGBT at less than 5 percent.
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Apr 25, 2016 00:51
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I think you'll find that Washington DC actually has 10% on that link 
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Apr 25, 2016 00:56
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I can't identify a single character in the show whose sexuality has been anything other than incidental to the plot. Relationships affect the plot but the genders involved haven't made a big difference as far as I can tell. Except to viewers who feel betrayed.
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Apr 25, 2016 00:59
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that one guy posted:I can't identify a single character in the show whose sexuality has been anything other than incidental to the plot. Relationships affect the plot but the genders involved haven't made a big difference as far as I can tell. Except to viewers who feel betrayed. Yeah, everyone's sexuality just is, it's never been a plot point like Clarke is bi and her mother dis/approves, or that Lexa is the First Lesbian Commander ever or anything like that. Lexa's sexuality as a plot device is only a thing on tumblr/twitter where "SHE DIED BECAUSE SHE WAS A LESBIAN"  became the only thing anyone could talk about.
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Apr 25, 2016 01:18
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hollylolly posted:Yeah, everyone's sexuality just is, it's never been a plot point like Clarke is bi and her mother dis/approves, or that Lexa is the First Lesbian Commander ever or anything like that. Lexa's sexuality as a plot device is only a thing on tumblr/twitter where "SHE DIED BECAUSE SHE WAS A LESBIAN" Yes within the show her sexuality in and of itself wasn't acknowledged much, but you can't ignore the fact that the showrunners specifically went out of their way to court LGBT viewers, and then pulled a trope those people are sick of seeing. Really I think this displays the problem with this argument and why everyone keeps talking in circles: the people who didn't have a problem with it are arguing for how it worked/what happened within the show and it's universe, whereas the people who were upset by it are arguing how it affected/factored into things on a larger scale (I know the latter group has talked about how the death itself was dumb/not dumb/whatever and the former group has talked about tumblrites or whatever but that's the main motives behind the arguments). And that's fine, there are valid things to say about both! But I think we're kinda arguing on 2 different levels, and I think both groups could stand to be a tick more receptive to the other (myself included) 
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Apr 25, 2016 01:33
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I'm just saying that sexuality isn't a plot point on the show. The showrunners played it up behind the scenes and courted their own disaster, I don't think anyone can deny that.
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Apr 25, 2016 01:37
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Yeah sorry, I kinda used your post as a springboard for my larger point. Cheers e: vv also yea that Monicro fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Apr 25, 2016 |
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Apr 25, 2016 01:40
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hollylolly posted:I'm just saying that sexuality isn't a plot point on the show. except people in this very thread are denying it.
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Apr 25, 2016 01:45
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Monicro posted:Yes within the show her sexuality in and of itself wasn't acknowledged much, but you can't ignore the fact that the showrunners specifically went out of their way to court LGBT viewers, and then pulled a trope those people are sick of seeing. The showrunners courted LBGT viewers by pointing out the significantly greater LGBT representation of the show. No one made any promises regarding how LGBT characters were going to die. The "stray bullet" may have come across as a trope, but if you stop for a minute and consider the context, it really wasn't. Lexa was: a) killed by her mentor and top lieutenant b) killed by accident c) killed by a grounder weapon There's a SHITLOAD of symbolism in there that's important to both the plot and at least one character arc. Only the most shallow viewers think "omg this looks so much like that scene in Buffy, I hate this show!!!"
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Apr 25, 2016 01:52
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enraged_camel posted:The showrunners courted LBGT viewers by pointing out the significantly greater LGBT representation of the show. No one made any promises regarding how LGBT characters were going to die. Troposphere 1 page ago posted:they had a person who worked on the show (shawna benson I think was her name?) who went to a large lesbian forum that constantly plugged the show because of its lgbt representation and told them they had nothing to worry about re: lexa dying.
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Apr 25, 2016 02:07
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Okay, so? At the time they clearly had no intention of killing Lexa, and Shawn Benson was probably telling the truth. It was repeatedly stated that the only reason they killed her off was because she signed on to another show. Not sure why this is so hard to comprehend. edit: I'm also not particularly inclined to take Troposphere's word for it.
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Apr 25, 2016 02:17
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Boy these goalposts are on rocket shoes
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Apr 25, 2016 02:24
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enraged_camel posted:Okay, so? At the time they clearly had no intention of killing Lexa, and Shawn Benson was probably telling the truth. It was repeatedly stated that the only reason they killed her off was because she signed on to another show. Not sure why this is so hard to comprehend. except this was after they had filmed season 3, so they were fully aware lexa was dying and still tried to reassure people to "help them sleep better at night". screenshots of everything that went on are up at http://wedeservedbetter.com/post/141388433803/your-friendly-neighborhood-lurker so you don't have to take my word for it. this will probably be my last post on the matter because I don't want to get banned for talking about this. I just want to state I wasn't the one to bring it up this time!
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Apr 25, 2016 02:27
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Troposphere posted:this will probably be my last post on the matter Uh-huh.  Anyway, moving on, it was kind of interesting that they didn't show Clarke cutting the AI out of Emerson's neck after he died, or even mentioning that she'll do it. Once scene he was dead and then the next she was putting the chip back in the box. I also have a feeling that the AI plot is not going to resolve this season. We still haven't met Luna.
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Apr 25, 2016 02:33
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Troposphere posted:except this was after they had filmed season 3, so they were fully aware lexa was dying and still tried to reassure people to "help them sleep better at night". Wait, this whole thing is about a bunch of people getting freaked out that Lexa's actress made a cryptic tweet and someone from the show saying "relax, its not a spoiler"? I mean, I think that person was probably dumb to try and deal with the internet fanbases and the sort of people who read spoilers into tweets between show people or think "if X dies I'm done". You can't harness the extremes and niches. But that article reads like she was an actual lurker on the forum and just foolishly weighed in. You guys kind of made it sound like The 100 was targeting and flooding gay forums with promises or something. Just my worthless opinion but that blog post reads like much ado about nothing. Edit: Also, Lexa is played by the same lady who plays the daughter in Fear the Walking Dead? I NEVER would have been able to tell that on my own. I don't know if that's a mark against me or a testament to how much the Lexa character is different from a typical high school girl. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Apr 25, 2016 |
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Apr 25, 2016 03:27
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