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4th ed Archaon looked better:
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Apr 25, 2016 09:08
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KingFisher posted:4th ed Archaon looked better: This is the epitome of e-bay Pro Painted.
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Apr 25, 2016 09:12
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Big Willy Style posted:9th age is dumb play KoW Are eight year olds making these statements?
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Apr 25, 2016 13:37
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KoW is good
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Apr 25, 2016 14:19
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Well so is 9th Age.
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Apr 25, 2016 14:21
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Moola posted:KoW is good jonnyman posted:Well so is 9th Age. I think you are all forgetting that GW is pioneering a new game technology called poynts. Things will NEVER be the same EVER again.
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Apr 25, 2016 14:26
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jonnyman posted:Well so is 9th Age. I don't believe you
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Apr 25, 2016 14:27
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jonnyman posted:Well so is 9th Age. I'm pretty sure most goons' objections to 9th Age so far have not been because 9th Age is a bad game, but that it is based on a highly flawed game (WHFB 8th Edition). The aim of 9th Age isn't to create a good game -- it's to "fix" 8th and continue to support it. KoW is from the ground up an entirely different game with a likewise very clear design strategy, and it's also good. 9th Age lacks that long-term design strategy. 9th Age's immediate goal is to "fix" 8th. What happens when they've done that? Will it keep bloating on aimlessly with little underlying, unified strategic vision of the game? Yes, probably.
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Apr 25, 2016 14:35
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Give me a better, "more fixed" version of 6th edition fantasy and I'll probably play that. I think it was either 6th or 7th that people agreed was the best edition of fantasy.
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Apr 25, 2016 14:37
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Chill la Chill posted:Give me a better, "more fixed" version of 6th edition fantasy and I'll probably play that. I think it was either 6th or 7th that people agreed was the best edition of fantasy. 7th ed. with 6th ed. books is broadly agreed upon to be a good game.
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Apr 25, 2016 14:38
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Slimnoid posted:7th ed. with 6th ed. books is broadly agreed upon to be a good game. Also 7th had the best starter set with Night Goblins and Dwarves.
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Apr 25, 2016 14:40
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richyp posted:Also 7th had the best starter set with Night Goblins and Dwarves. Oh was that the edition that had the dwarf helicopter and cannon in the starter box? In that case I apparently had played more games of 7th than I had 6th and it was rad.
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Apr 25, 2016 14:43
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Chill la Chill posted:Oh was that the edition that had the dwarf helicopter and cannon in the starter box? In that case I apparently had played more games of 7th than I had 6th and it was rad. Don't remember a Dwarf copter, there was a cannon though. If I remember correctly it was the one with Goblin Spider Riders and the Troll. It was also a decent price for what you got, especially in GW terms. Fake Edit: Just looked it up it was 40 quid for: 40 Spear Gobbos 20 Goblin Archers 10 Spider Riders, Troll, Shaman and Boss 12 Dwarf Warriors 10 Thunderers 8 Miners Cannon + Crew Dragon Slayer Thane + Some scenery. 40 quid these days is 1 and a half Gorechosen.
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Apr 25, 2016 14:50
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Moola posted:I don't believe you I'm not here to make you believe me. I'm just here to make people aware there is a game out there made by passionate past Warhammer players out there that is picking up steam. Drone posted:I'm pretty sure most goons' objections to 9th Age so far have not been because 9th Age is a bad game, but that it is based on a highly flawed game (WHFB 8th Edition). The aim of 9th Age isn't to create a good game -- it's to "fix" 8th and continue to support it. KoW is from the ground up an entirely different game with a likewise very clear design strategy, and it's also good. WFB 8th was flawed in many ways, but that is what we have been working so hard on. Is it perfect? No, but we have only been working on it since last August. Many people still preferred to play 8th edition because they liked it even through there were obvious flaws. Hell, I took tomb kings to tournaments. But there is in fact a lot of long term design ideas for the 9th Age that have already been slated to be worked on. -Fluff army books for all 16 armies with all original artwork and stories. -Working on smaller skirmish (mordheim like) versions of the game. -Introductory versions of the game for new players. -Large scale games. -RPG variants. -New armies, first of which will be a dogs of war'esq army. -Special characters. There are many future plans, but 9th hasn't even been around for a whole year yet so there are good things to come. Chill la Chill posted:Give me a better, "more fixed" version of 6th edition fantasy and I'll probably play that. I think it was either 6th or 7th that people agreed was the best edition of fantasy. But most of the players that were interested in 9th had just came from 8th edition WFB. To get a good start to the game we needed to continue on what was more recognizable as a game people wanted to play. If we had gone back to older versions a lot of players would have been pushed out as they wouldn't be familiar with older editions. jonnyman fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Apr 25, 2016 |
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Apr 25, 2016 15:07
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What are the Dogs of War'esq? Fantasy Space Wolves?
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Apr 25, 2016 15:14
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jonnyman posted:But most of the players that were interested in 9th had just came from 8th edition WFB. To get a good start to the game we needed to continue on what was more recognizable as a game people wanted to play. If we had gone back to older versions a lot of players would have been pushed out as they wouldn't be familiar with older editions. sassassin posted:What are the Dogs of War'esq? Fantasy Space Wolves?
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Apr 25, 2016 15:18
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So the plan is to at some point release a completely new 10th edition?
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Apr 25, 2016 15:20
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Their flashing tongues, spitting out blood and poison.
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sassassin posted:What are the Dogs of War'esq? Fantasy Space Wolves? I meant to say there will be an army to represent the old Dogs of War army.
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Apr 25, 2016 15:21
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On the vast plains of War'esq there lives a tribe of feral dog-people who obsessively gather bones. Fits the Warhammer Fantasy aesthetic perfectly.
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Apr 25, 2016 15:26
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sassassin posted:On the vast plains of War'esq there lives a tribe of feral dog-people who obsessively gather bones. Fits the Warhammer Fantasy aesthetic perfectly. Do they wear jorts too?
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Apr 25, 2016 15:30
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jonnyman posted:I'm not here to make you believe me. I'm just here to make people aware there is a game out there made by passionate past Warhammer players out there that is picking up steam. I believe this
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Apr 25, 2016 15:58
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I disagree that starting from 8th was somehow a better choice than starting from 6th or 7th. Warhammer fans want a Warhammer clone and even if you pick up the 2e core rules it's still recognizably Warhammer. All incorporating the major flaws of 8th edition into the backbone of 9th Age does is ensure that if they do decide to drop some of the more controversial 8e rules, then a bunch of grogs are going to pitch a fit. And given that the game is being built and managed as a hobby by a bunch of grogs, that's a nerd drama ticking time bomb. They had their chance to start fresh and they passed on it. Now they're stuck. If 9th Age had any marketing beyond word of mouth and a soon to be kickstarter of questionable quality, then they would have used this as an opportunity to describe it as the Warhammer clone or successor that actually addressed the underlying problems of 8e, to write a system that fully realized the original vision of the game, or to bring modern design sensibilities to a classic core. Instead they just said, "Eh, 8th is good enough." And it's not. It's really, really not. I admit they did address some of the more glaring problems, but like with the random charge distances being given a bonus from champions, it's just bandaids. The flaw is still there. There are still these ridiculous layers of dice rolls on an already slow and bloated system. You still run the risk of having nothing happen and then getting creamed because "it creates tension" and "you can't just like, know distances, and like, move them". They introduced universal special rules, but then they went and made four or more pages of unique rules just for the first army book, a pattern I assume they'll continue with each additional release. So again, you'll have to be intimately familiar with every army to know what anything does and there's just no reasonable way to balance 16 individual sets of special rules. It's a mess. So I do take umbrage when you say that 9th Age is also a good game. We have objective markers of good mechanics and 9th Age fails in many regards.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:17
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Do any of the 9th Age dev team have any previous experience designing wargame rules?
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Apr 25, 2016 16:31
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Thirsty Dog posted:Do any of the 9th Age dev team have any previous experience designing wargame rules? You tell me. 
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Apr 25, 2016 16:36
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Atlas Hugged posted:I disagree that starting from 8th was somehow a better choice than starting from 6th or 7th. Warhammer fans want a Warhammer clone and even if you pick up the 2e core rules it's still recognizably Warhammer. All incorporating the major flaws of 8th edition into the backbone of 9th Age does is ensure that if they do decide to drop some of the more controversial 8e rules, then a bunch of grogs are going to pitch a fit. And given that the game is being built and managed as a hobby by a bunch of grogs, that's a nerd drama ticking time bomb. They had their chance to start fresh and they passed on it. Now they're stuck. I don't know why you guys assume the game is being put together by a bunch of grogs? I'm just a guy from Indiana who really enjoyed playing tomb Kings and wanted to be a part of this project. You make it sound like your opinion of 8th edition is fact and can't be disputed. Yes it had it's problems but its still a game that many people loved to play and still want to play. The EEFL guys are still headstrong about playing 8th edition and they can go right ahead if they want. And what do you mean we are stuck. We aren't GW who waits ten years to put out a new book. If something needs to be addressed in the rules and it's game breaking it can be fixed at any time. The kickstarter I posted is just a guy who is interested in helping out the community by producing models that are compatible with the 9th Age. He isn't any official model producer for the game. 9th isn't going to be a model company ever. If people want to make models that are compatible with the game that's fine. There is also a PR committee that has been formed that is going to be helping get the word out. We asked people what their background in warhammer was back in November. The majority of players played 8th and thats what we stuck with. I think it was a great choice and it's been very successful so far. http://www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php?thread/3732-users-gaming-background/ I really can't disagree with you more that 9th is a mess or that it's going to fail. With over 6000 members on the forum and new people joining everyday I have the utmost faith that the project will succeed and grow. Once the main rule book and other new army books come out with all the new artwork and story I think you will see how serious these people are about this project.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:43
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Thirsty Dog posted:Do any of the 9th Age dev team have any previous experience designing wargame rules? Yes they do. Not everyone does but many of these guys have been playing for years and have a very good grasp on the game and what they would like it to be. Also some of you older edition guys might like this. I pledged some to get the chaos dwarf champion. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/554542735/the-pantheon-of-chaos jonnyman fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Apr 25, 2016 |
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Apr 25, 2016 16:45
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I don't know why you seem to think that the majority of Warhammer players playing the most recent edition of the game is somehow definitive. That's how editions have always worked. Having played Warhammer and having published wargaming rules are two very different things. I'm not saying no one working in 9th Age is published, but the picture you give us is of a bunch of guys who liked a game. Your list was of features. Those aren't design goals or a clear vision. Those are the finished products you want to be available. Saying it's not a mess when it very clearly is doesn't change the reality of the way design is being approached, which is piecemeal.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:53
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Is Stelek on the design team?
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Apr 25, 2016 16:54
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lol
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Apr 25, 2016 16:56
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Mango Polo posted:Is Stelek on the design team? I don't think God's Gift to Gaming is involved.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:57
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MasterSlowPoke posted:I don't think God's Gift to Gaming is involved. What a missed opportunity 
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Apr 25, 2016 17:01
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Atlas Hugged posted:You tell me. Love the descriptions Translation Team - Translates Publications Data Analyst - Analyses Play Tester - Playtesting of rules Background and Art team - Has final say on background and art.
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Apr 25, 2016 17:03
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Atlas Hugged posted:I don't know why you seem to think that the majority of Warhammer players playing the most recent edition of the game is somehow definitive. That's how editions have always worked. The people who started the project were leaders of the Swedish Comp teams and ETC teams. They have more than enough experience to know what they are doing. We knew back in August that we wouldn't get everything done by this time due to how much they were wanting to do. They needed a sturdy base, the 1.0 rules, to start with and then they could branch out to other aspects of the game. Are the rules perfect? No, but they are a great start. Allowing for 5-6 months of play-testing and we will see where we need to head from there. Of course things seem piecemeal right now. All the players are concerned about are steady rules that aren't constantly going through design changes from BETA. That doesn't mean stuff isn't going on behind the scenes. These guys have big plans and will address stuff people still feel is broken about the game. It's just going to take time and some people just aren't patient.
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Apr 25, 2016 17:15
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I don't think anyone is really hating on 9th Age, it's just that there exist lower-effort solutions that would work just as well (or better) than trying to put lipstick on the pig of 8th edition. It makes a lot of sense since the rules people had the most experience with that edition - but I think that's ultimately to its detriment. 7e with 6e army books is basically my Warhammer happy place. The rules are relatively tight, and there's a ton of army lists and variant lists. I feel like it's a good FAQ and conversion guide away from doing everything 9th Age wanted to do, while retaining all the "authenticity" of the original fluff and fiction.
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Apr 25, 2016 17:16
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I don't get what inherently makes a model "9th Age Compatible". Isn't basically any 28mm mass-battle fantasy model (of which there are, and have been, many many) compatible with 9th Age? Isn't the Kickstarter someone just piggybacking off of the name for a quick buck?
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Apr 25, 2016 17:18
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moths posted:I don't think anyone is really hating on 9th Age, it's just that there exist lower-effort solutions that would work just as well (or better) than trying to put lipstick on the pig of 8th edition. But if we made it low effort then it would really be put off as nothing special and people wouldn't play it. I get it. 8th wasn't for everyone. After every new edition of Warhammer there would be people that wouldn't move on due to not liking new things. That's how it always has been. From most people I have talked to 8th was the best of Warhammer that they had played, but they also enjoyed many of the older editions as well. I'm just one guy from one team working on one of 16 army books. I just so happen to also frequent this forum. I didn't post for a very long time but I figured there were people out there who do come here to read about Warhammer type stuff and I thought it would be nice to get the word out. You guys don't have to agree with how we want to see the game go, but how we are handling it is not necessarily the wrong way to do it either.
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Apr 25, 2016 17:23
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jonnyman posted:Yes they do. Not everyone does but many of these guys have been playing for years and have a very good grasp on the game and what they would like it to be. That's cool. What games have those guys worked on?
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Apr 25, 2016 17:26
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Drone posted:I don't get what inherently makes a model "9th Age Compatible". Isn't basically any 28mm mass-battle fantasy model (of which there are, and have been, many many) compatible with 9th Age? Isn't the Kickstarter someone just piggybacking off of the name for a quick buck? It's a guy that wants to make models that can help out a community that have lost access to certain models for their armies. The way he has presented himself isn't that he's trying to get rich quick, but trying to help out the players. Apparently other companies have come forward as well. The only other one known to me is Shield Wolf Miniatures at the moment. http://www.shieldwolfminiatures.com/index.php
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Apr 25, 2016 17:29
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Thirsty Dog posted:That's cool. What games have those guys worked on? The only ones I know of worked with GW back when. I don't know the exact depth as to what they did, but I do know they worked with them.
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Apr 25, 2016 17:30
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jonnyman posted:The only ones I know of worked with GW back when. I don't know the exact depth as to what they did, but I do know they worked with them. Fair enough. There's plenty of ex-GW guys doing good things (Cavatore, Johnson, Chambers) at places like Mantic et al.
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Apr 25, 2016 17:31
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