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emanresu tnuocca posted:Really the first time this happened with Ned and Jaime was so loving awesome with Jaime punching the Lannister stooge for getting in the way of a good fight, since then it just became a repetitive trope. Didn't they spear Ned in the leg? I'm specifically talking about the bloody sword/spear suddenly emerging through the face or the mouth or the throat.
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Apr 25, 2016 15:56
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The bit with the Dothraki instantly believing that Dany was telling the truth about being Drogo's wife could have been fixed / made to make sense pretty easily. When Dany finally speaks up to reveal her identity to them, she should have spoken much more powerfully and regally - the Dothraki then say something like "why isn't she acting scared like all the other little women, there's something about this woman that's different, she is actually acting like a queen.." Then they decide just to be safe to give her the benefit of the doubt until they reach Dothrakiville and lay off the rape. This way they don't look like gullible idiots, and more importantly we see a contrast between the first episode when Dany was a scared little girl at the hands of the Dothraki, and now when she is powerful and capable and fearless. This is called character development. /GoT script notes fanfiction
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Apr 25, 2016 15:57
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Eau de MacGowan posted:Didn't they spear Ned in the leg? I'm specifically talking about the bloody sword/spear suddenly emerging through the face or the mouth or the throat. Since they couldn't kill Ned just yet, a spear through the leg is an ok compromise. Narmi fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Apr 25, 2016 |
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Apr 25, 2016 16:00
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hemophilia posted:This episode was alright. I wanted more bran and less dorne but what happened in dorne only makes sense if theyre trying to excise most of it from the plot. I hope episode 2 features the sand snacks being turned into pulp so we can promptly forget about it. bran is awful dude.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:06
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LegalPad posted:Like all fanfiction, the more it departs from the source material, the worse it gets. The writers seem to be caught up in creating a bullet point list of which characters do what and completey neglect to flesh out the small details that really matter. I think that is one of the biggest problems, yes. Many of the characters' actions don't really make sense in the show, because they're operating off old cliff notes of what will happen later in the books while trying to do their own thing, but without really thinking very much about the characters' motivations in this version. Which is weird, because some of the best additions and changes they made early on in the show were centered around character moments like some of those added Tywin scenes, you'd think they'd have a handle on these characters. But now it just seems like they're changing what they can while aiming toward the broad endgame for all these characters, but without making the two congruent at all. I think that's kind of a problem with adaptations in general, if the adapters are not careful with the changes they make it feels like the parts of the plot and characters that remain the same as they are in the original version don't really make sense as logical next steps for the adapted characters. Most of the least liked parts of the show have that sense to them, where it feels like they just cared about making sure something happened without really giving much thought to how to make it logical with their version, or any version for that matter, of the characters and the world.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:12
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Dude you're not actually arguing with anything anyone said. I think the tv version is fine. It's largely been internally coherent and it flows better than the mess of the books. I should have added that Ellaria is a composite of a bunch of characters to make the plot line work better, but I assumed you'd be able to figure that out. LegalPad posted:Like all fanfiction, the more it departs from the source material, the worse it gets. The writers seem to be caught up in creating a bullet point list of which characters do what and completey neglect to flesh out the small details that really matter. It's not fanfiction with they are the institutional authors of the story dude. Fanfiction is the poo poo in your head.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:16
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hemophilia posted:. Calling grrm the american tolkein is a stretch
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Apr 25, 2016 16:16
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LegalPad posted:Why was Davos so nonchalant at Jon's death, cracking jokes and sarcasm through the door to Allister? Isn't he supposed to be in emotional ruins from leaving Stannis to die, and knowing he was probably going to burn his daughter,whom Davos loves. Gimme a loving break. Because there has been months of real life time in between seasons for Davos to process his grief even though the show picks up literally right afterwards with no time lapse. Duhhhhh.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:18
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LegalPad posted:Like all fanfiction, the more it departs from the source material, the worse it gets. The writers seem to be caught up in creating a bullet point list of which characters do what and completey neglect to flesh out the small details that really matter. Davos is a hardened man who has had a lot of loss in his life (son at Blackwater). Crying about Jon (or even Stannis) isn't something I could see him doing. Even Shereen I don't expect him to go into mourning. Recent episodes have had issues but this was far from it.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:19
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Zero One posted:Davos is a hardened man who has had a lot of loss in his life (son at Blackwater). Crying about Jon (or even Stannis) isn't something I could see him doing. Even Shereen I don't expect him to go into mourning. You could argue that Davos had an idea of what was going to happen when Stannis sent him to Castle Black, so he was somewhat prepared for the news.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:22
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They're telegraphing Roose and Walda being offed by Ramsay. If that's handled like the Dorne poo poo in this ep I don't know what the gently caress D&D are doing because Roose is way too cunning for that.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:22
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Beeez posted:I think that is one of the biggest problems, yes. Many of the characters' actions don't really make sense in the show, because they're operating off old cliff notes of what will happen later in the books while trying to do their own thing, but without really thinking very much about the characters' motivations in this version. Which is weird, because some of the best additions and changes they made early on in the show were centered around character moments like some of those added Tywin scenes, you'd think they'd have a handle on these characters. But now it just seems like they're changing what they can while aiming toward the broad endgame for all these characters, but without making the two congruent at all. I think that's kind of a problem with adaptations in general, if the adapters are not careful with the changes they make it feels like the parts of the plot and characters that remain the same as they are in the original version don't really make sense as logical next steps for the adapted characters. Most of the least liked parts of the show have that sense to them, where it feels like they just cared about making sure something happened without really giving much thought to how to make it logical with their version, or any version for that matter, of the characters and the world. Exactly. An example of this I always think back to is Shae. In the book, Shae was always a greedy, self-centered whore who wanted nothing more than to elevate herself. Tyrion knew she didn't really love him, and he hated himself for loving her. The show writers made Shae a super girlfriend who actually loved Tyrion. However, they still had the cliff note that he kills her, and they had to stick to that. So in the show, Shae suddenly turns on Tyrion and betrays him and it is awkward and nonsensical because nothing we've seen from Shae up to that point would support her doing that. It's moments like that when we are "snapped back" to the story that are jarring and feel out of place. The more they veer off, the more this happens.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:23
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Karpaw posted:They're telegraphing Roose and Walda being offed by Ramsay. If that's handled like the Dorne poo poo in this ep I don't know what the gently caress D&D are doing because Roose is way too cunning for that. I mean part of the bit in the books is even highly competent people make miscalculations and get out maneuvered, so I wouldn't say that.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:24
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So what are the odds Stannis is still alive?
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Apr 25, 2016 16:26
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InFlames235 posted:So what are the odds Stannis is still alive? Not good.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:27
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Zero One posted:Davos is a hardened man who has had a lot of loss in his life (son at Blackwater). Crying about Jon (or even Stannis) isn't something I could see him doing. Even Shereen I don't expect him to go into mourning. Dude, he doesn't have to break down into tears. He's spent a huge portion of his life serving Stannis and has almost been killed for it countless times, he's lost sons serving him. Shireen is like a daughter to him. Davos should be at an all time low having now lost basically everything, going to castle black and then even having even Jon die should evoke a little more than boredom and sarcasm. Shouldn't he lash out at Melisandre at least when she comes in to the room? I mean, come on.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:28
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LegalPad posted:Like all fanfiction, the more it departs from the source material, the worse it gets. The writers seem to be caught up in creating a bullet point list of which characters do what and completey neglect to flesh out the small details that really matter. I don't think everything they do that departs from the source material is bad. Case in point, some of the early season stuff they did was good. They added some excellent material to King Robert for example like his conversation with Cersei that was not in the books. So they're not incapable of writing good poo poo, but obviously a lot of the original material the past two seasons has been rear end. It doesn't help that like In It For The Tank said they're clearly winging it from season to season now. When they had a clear direction of where they wanted to go with the plot and characters then the original stuff they added was mostly good. It's easy to add stuff like Arya/Tywin, Robert/Cersei etc when you know where the plot needs to go and where those characters are going to end up. Now, though? They know broad strokes I think but they're clearly changing poo poo constantly. I doubt for example that they originally intended for Stannis to go down quite so easily like that, or for the Sand Snakes to kill Doran (pretty sure this is in response to the massively negative response to that whole plot line), or for Jamie and Bronn to go to Dorne, and they clearly had little to no idea of what Tyrion is supposed to be doing once he leaves Kings Landing. I just get a huge vibe of them making it up as they go now and with no clear direction beyond broad plot points. Things are happening in the plot lately because they need to happen, not because they've arrived there organically. We need an excuse for Dany not to sail to Westeros so her fleet is burned, we need Mel at the wall so Stan the brilliant commander stupidly charges right into a trap, we need Jamie to do something so let's have him go to Dorne, we need Doran dead so let's just have it happen, and we need his son dead too so his ladies get to teleport onto his ship and kill him despite presumably guards being around. Etc etc Ginette Reno fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Apr 25, 2016 |
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Apr 25, 2016 16:28
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InFlames235 posted:So what are the odds Stannis is still alive? They've confirmed that he's dead, right? I know, I know, they've confirmed Jon's dead too, but if they do a flashback reveal that Brienne actually hit the tree he was sitting against and spared his life, I swear to the old gods and the new that I'm quitting this show.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:30
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InFlames235 posted:So what are the odds Stannis is still alive? -150%
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Apr 25, 2016 16:31
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LegalPad posted:Dude, he doesn't have to break down into tears. It's not boredom and sarcasm. He knows that he will be murdered by a bunch of traitors and he's buying time for Edd. He's a man who does what is right no matter the situation so even though it might seem an Easy way out to be put out of his misery he won't do that. He will help the good men of the Watch as much as he can.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:32
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WampaLord posted:They've confirmed that he's dead, right? I know, I know, they've confirmed Jon's dead too, but if they do a flashback reveal that Brienne actually hit the tree he was sitting against and spared his life, I swear to the old gods and the new that I'm quitting this show. Roose and Ramsay have a quick conversation where they wonder who killed Stannis, since Roose wants to reward the soldier that did the deed. He's dead.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:32
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LegalPad posted:Dude, he doesn't have to break down into tears. Im gonna bet that Davos will have a moment once his life isnt on imminent danger. Ive never faced death but ive lost loved ones during times where other stressors were already conspiring to rip me apart inside and thats extreme oversharing to make a point about fiction, but my mourning was delayed and heavily internalized from it. Its not out of character for a dude like davos to save the reflecting and sadbrains for when he can afford to feel it.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:32
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LegalPad posted:Dude, he doesn't have to break down into tears. Liam Cunningham and Carice van Houten have hinted that Davos will learn the truth about Melisandre's involvement with Shireen's death, so the lash out is bound to occur eventually.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:32
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Ginette Reno posted:I don't think everything they do that departs from the source material is bad. Case in point, some of the early season stuff they did was good. They added some excellent material to King Robert for example like his conversation with Cersei that was not in the books. So they're not incapable of writing good poo poo, but obviously a lot of the original material the past two seasons has been rear end..... I don't think so either. Some of the written in scenes are actually really good. IMO most of the best 'extra' scenes were closer to the beginning of the story though when they were still otherwise very close to the source material.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:32
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InFlames235 posted:So what are the odds Stannis is still alive? Roose's conversation implies that they found his body, just not Brienne.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:34
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kater posted:Ahaha gently caress this show. Welcome season 6, loving nothing happened. People say "nothing happened" about a TV show literally no matter what happens. Even about episodes where a lot happened.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:35
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LegalPad posted:Exactly. An example of this I always think back to is Shae. There's something we see that would support her doing that, which is Tyrion's betrayal. And for the most part, audiences did not cry foul at Shae betraying Tyrion. *Some* of the character's actions don't make sense. But when you've read the book something's adapted from (or know the real story something is based on), it can give you the misleading idea that there is only one way a story makes sense, only one valid motivation for people to do something, and only one way to get from A to B. The majority of non-reader criticism of the book isn't really 'these character actions don't make sense', it's more things like 'This is relentlessly bleak', 'They're just killing off everyone now', 'characters are too far apart and I don't care about anyone anymore', 'This entire plotline seems poorly filmed', and so on. The criticism of character actions that don't make sense is largely about actions that didn't happen in the books. (Sansa-Littlefinger-Boltons, Dorne). Ginette Reno posted:I just get a huge vibe of them making it up as they go now and with no clear direction beyond broad plot points. Things are happening in the plot lately because they need to happen, not because they've arrived there organically. We need an excuse for Dany not to sail to Westeros so her fleet is burned, we need Mel at the wall so Stan the brilliant commander stupidly charges right into a trap, we need Jamie to do something so let's have him go to Dorne, we need Doran dead so let's just have it happen, and we need his son dead too so his ladies get to teleport onto his ship and kill him despite presumably guards being around. Etc etc Well this isn't a vibe. It's what happening. We know the story is not written. We know all that exists are broad plot points. This is true of Game of Thrones, but it's also true of basically every tv show. That's just how they're written. I don't want to defend everything the show's done because there's a lot of missteps, but I think a lot of people seem to think the show is bad because the makers are 'hacks' or something. I think they're doing a good job all things considered. There are actual limitations to making this show. There's a budget that limits what you can do. There's a network that limits your flexibility in terms of how long or how short this thing can be. You can't take the story anywhere because people are still expect a lot of the same beats. You have a weird road map that you should follow, to some extent, except it's just scribbles because the author hasn't actually finished the books. Is it at all surprising that the quality is decreasing? The actual person who came up with all these stories hasn't been able to write his way out of them in over a decade, a couple of people writing some scripts in a few weeks of every year and budgeting every line aren't going to write their way out of that either. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Apr 25, 2016 |
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Apr 25, 2016 16:38
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I just think its really okay to expect better of this show than to sink to True Blood levels of not giving a gently caress about plot or who dies while running down a similar checklist thats slightly less pandering to gay people and ladies but still dumbly pandering in its own right.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:39
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computer parts posted:Roose's conversation implies that they found his body, just not Brienne. drat well now it's even more lame that they cut away from the kill. D&D really did hate him..
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Apr 25, 2016 16:40
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hemophilia posted:I just think its really okay to expect better of this show than to sink to True Blood levels of not giving a gently caress about plot or who dies while running down a similar checklist thats slightly less pandering to gay people and ladies but still dumbly pandering in its own right. Yeap. 1st season was one of the best TV I watched in many years. 2 and 3 were good too, specially 3. It got our expectations high. Then it began to sink. 4 was still kinda ok, specially on those scenes that were taken straight from the books. 5 was just bad. 6 inst looking good either.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:42
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This episode was still better than Books 4 and 5.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:43
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Elias_Maluco posted:Yeap. 1st season was one of the best TV I watched in many years. 2 and 3 were good too, specially 3. It got our expectations high. I think stabbing the dorne plot to death was smart. I think theres a setup for cool stuff to come. It can also go south just as easy but i think we probably have a better season than last year
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Apr 25, 2016 16:46
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qbert posted:This episode was still better than Books 4 and 5. I dont like those books, I think they are boring and it really shows that GRRM himself dont know what to do with his own story anymore. But it as some good moments and at least it makes sense. And there is nothing so stupid like this whole Dorne arc, even if the books own Dorne arc is kinda bad. The show seems like they dont even care about making any sense anymore, is just sound and fury and tits and people being murdered for shock value in the most silly ways. Also, terrible dialogue all around Still, the episode wanst completely awful, there are still the good characters and many good actors. Who know, they might still be able to salvage it. But I dont think its looking very promising EDIT: hemophilia posted:I think stabbing the dorne plot to death was smart. I think theres a setup for cool stuff to come. It can also go south just as easy but i think we probably have a better season than last year It wanst smart, IMHO. I would have been smart to skip it completely if that's how it was going to end. It seemed to me like a hushed solution to get rid of something when they realized they had messed it up beyond repair Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Apr 25, 2016 |
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Apr 25, 2016 16:48
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hemophilia posted:...It can also go south just as easy but i think we probably have a better season than last year This is where I'm at. Sansa seemingly in a safe place for once gives us a lot of opportunity to see some cool stuff happen with Stark loyalists.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:49
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Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:oh good, i'm glad this poo poo meme has already returned poo poo meme? That was the best thing to come out of last year's thread. The one you quoted needs a little fleshing out though. It left out a the absurdity involved in how the Snakes were able to kill the princes. So it needs to be fixed before it gets put in with the classics. quote:"We had an assistant named Dave Hill," said Benioff and Weiss. "One day last summer he walked into our office and said, 'You know how Stannis really loves his daughter?' 'Yeah?' 'Well,' said Dave, doesn't it make sense that he'd burn her alive? What else is he going to do?' 'You're right,' we said. 'That does make sense.' 'This year, Dave Hill is a writer on the show." quote:"We had an assistant named Dave Hill," said Benioff and Weiss. "One day last summer he walked into our office and said, 'You know that kid (Sansa) whose family gets massacred by the Lannisters? The one who escaped to the Vale after Joffrey died?' 'Yeah?' 'Well,' said Dave, doesn't it make sense that Littlefinger gives her to the Boltons for reasons and she gets raped every night by Ramsay Snow? Where else is she going to go?' 'You're right,' we said. 'That does make sense.' 'And what if during the battle for Winterfell, she's the one who ends up jumping off a wall?' This year, Dave Hill is a writer on the show." quote:"We had an assistant on our show named Dave Hill," say Benioff and Weiss. "One day last summer he walked into our office and said, 'You know how Jon Snow goes to Hardhome to rescue some wildlings before they get slaughtered by the White Walkers?'
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Apr 25, 2016 16:58
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Apr 25, 2016 16:58
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WampaLord posted:"Bad" random Dothraki - "Ha ha, I sure can't wait to gently caress that white haired girl in the rear end without lube!" Dany was kidnapped by the Travelling Comedy Troupe Dothraki.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:58
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Elias_Maluco posted:It wanst smart, IMHO. I would have been smart to skip it completely if that's how it was going to end. It seemed to me like a hushed solution to get rid of something when they realized they had messed it up beyond repair This is kind of the nature of episodic / television writing. The Dorne plotline (as well as some other ones) is pretty bad but in a tv series when that happens you just gotta hope they downplay it and move on. They can't go and delete the old episodes.
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Apr 25, 2016 16:59
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I think the best part is all the book babies crying now because they can't just sit and go "aha" and "told you so!" about all the "shocking" stuff that happens. Like they pretend some dude who spends 10 pages describing a woman taking a poo poo is somehow some magnificent writer. D&D's decisions aren't always the best, but to think they're somehow doing a worse job than GRRM, especially given the medium, is laughable. People complain about nothing happening on the show where you could chop off like half of the book series and miss nothing of note or importance. Dudes bitch when things move forward because they don't have GRRM's typical 32 expository chapters for every minor decision and apparently it's too hard to understand motivations without having them drilled through 100s of pages of repetition, then turn around and complain about the plot not advancing when they haven't instantly finished storylines after one episode. It's just really funny the difference in opinion of the show with people who've read the books vs. the ones who haven't.
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Apr 25, 2016 17:06
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The problem isn't that "nothing happens", the problem is that "stuff happens, for seemingly no reason".
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Apr 25, 2016 17:11
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