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Raged posted:Can you guys give me some tips when it comes to the drat escort missions in the game. I'm on my second on and constantly failing. First I tried setting up a firing line in front of them but that did not work, then I tried spreading them out and running them silent and using one as a decoy but the drat AI cheats and with or with out silent running/Gas cloud makes a b-line towards my convoy ships. Enemies tend to move pretty predictably in convoy defense so I just brace for impact and slam my ships into theirs as they come in to get shots at the transports. They barely dodge torpedoes either when they're beelining for an objective.
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Apr 28, 2016 13:26
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With AI, group them up, the AI always knows where they are. Have your ships set up to ram the enemy literally out of the way. Burn past the enemy with the transports once you get close. Have your ships aim to cripple engines. If you're against orks, try to get them to waste their boarding actions on your line ships/escorts instead of the transports. Don't bother with running silent, use BFI and be ready to dodge rams with the transports as you merge (also why ramming the enemy away is important). If you're Eldar, I guess just try and pulsar spike the enemy and keep your transports at the back line 
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Apr 28, 2016 13:28
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Raged posted:Can you guys give me some tips when it comes to the drat escort missions in the game. I'm on my second on and constantly failing. First I tried setting up a firing line in front of them but that did not work, then I tried spreading them out and running them silent and using one as a decoy but the drat AI cheats and with or with out silent running/Gas cloud makes a b-line towards my convoy ships. The AI always makes a beeline for the transports, so use them as bait to allow your fleet to wreck the enemy with little resistance. It's probably better to keep them all together vs AI because you can try to AoE their ships as they try to bumrush the transports .
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Apr 28, 2016 13:29
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Raged posted:Can you guys give me some tips when it comes to the drat escort missions in the game. I'm on my second on and constantly failing. First I tried setting up a firing line in front of them but that did not work, then I tried spreading them out and running them silent and using one as a decoy but the drat AI cheats and with or with out silent running/Gas cloud makes a b-line towards my convoy ships. The best luck I've had is putting them on the edge of the map, and moving them quickly to the other edge if the enemy is concentrated on one side, and micromanaging their thrusters straight up the board. Full Speed Ahead as much as I can, and don't burn the whole gauge as it will regenerate much slower. I use the rest of my ships as blockers and brawlers, trying to keep the enemy off them as best as possible, with Stasis Bombs, Taunt, and targeting the engines of bigger ships. I've had decent luck with Torpedo spreads against Eldar and putting AP Ammo on my Sword Frigates just chews up Ork ships trying to get close. Its pretty hairy still but I'm playing on Hard so I dig the close calls. It really is just using all the Control abilities while just running the transports straight up the board edge as quick as possible.
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Apr 28, 2016 13:32
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WMain00 posted:I'm finding this game a bit frustratingly hard to be honest and I feel like I'm moving from "enjoying it" to "trying to enjoy it". It seems to require quite a bit of knowledge of the game behind it and it doesn't particularly make things clear. Similarly, its easy to fall into the pitfall of thinking this is an RTS, but it seems to be more a naval battle simulator in space. Which aspects are you having trouble with in particular? The game's a little opaque on that topic, but the actual underlying mechanics are fairly straightforward.
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Apr 28, 2016 13:33
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Stanley Pain posted:Use taunt, ramming, etc to hold back the enemy ships. Having ships with CC abilities is basically mandatory for the single player campaign. Uggggh. Whelp looks like I'm screwed then. No CC and no renown to spend. Would not be bad if the AI didn't cheat. Edit: Wow lots of advice while I posted. thanks Ill give it all a try. Also is there a guide to the weapons in the game I can read up on. Don't really know the difference between a lancer and a micro cannon. Raged fucked around with this message at 13:44 on Apr 28, 2016 |
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Apr 28, 2016 13:41
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Perestroika posted:Which aspects are you having trouble with in particular? The game's a little opaque on that topic, but the actual underlying mechanics are fairly straightforward. Are escort ships worth worrying about and if so which flavour is best? Should I avoid telling my ships to directly target enemy vessels and instead have them move in a fashion that means there side cannons are always in the right direction, then set fire-at-will? What/why are there ranges?
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Apr 28, 2016 13:52
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Nickiepoo posted:The problem with Eldar players is that most aren't that good, but a good Eldar player can control the match like nobody else, so any time you roll an Eldar opponent it's simply a case of 'is this guy good enough that it's impossible to beat him?' I wouldn't say that requiring the eldar to be identified when firing pulsars to be an ideal work around. I mean if they did that they would have to say oh i dont know, the same with NC's and the likes. No but yeah eldar are pants on head retarded with a good player behind the helm. 12k pulsars are just 
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Apr 28, 2016 14:03
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Yeah, playing with the Orks, either the Eldar player is too slow on doing Pulsar Runs, and gets caught in a net of boarding torpedoes and assault boats (or if I'm lucky, a Brute Ram), or they are bloody impossible to catch pointy-eared gits! 
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Apr 28, 2016 14:09
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WMain00 posted:Are escort ships worth worrying about and if so which flavour is best? Escorts can be more than just point filler if you use them well. Any upgrades on them are very cost effective because all the escorts of that class will get the benefit (thats why they're 200 renown). Regarding Targeting, it depends on the ship. I typically maneuver my ships around manually. When you set them to fire prow-on, they have a tendency to stop which I don't want. Set to broadside and they'll orbit the target, but if the targets faster then them then they have a tendency to drift out of range. But if you just move them where you want them to be, they'll shoot with everything in range/arc. If you get a little overwhelmed you can set some ships to AI mode which has the AI attack enemies based on your ships range/angle settings so you don't forget about some ship and have it sitting still doing nothing halfway across the map.
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Apr 28, 2016 14:13
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Raged posted:Uggggh. Whelp looks like I'm screwed then. No CC and no renown to spend. Would not be bad if the AI didn't cheat. Lances always hit, and reduce enemy armour to being a 25% chance to negate damage rather than whatever the chance usually was, but typically have a low refire rate so their DPS is a bit so-so, and Macro Cannons can get an upgrade that treats all armour at or below 3k as weak anyway, so in a brawl you'll see those do better. Eldar have a special kind of Lance which is loving BULLSHIT called a Pulsar, which does 3 "rotations" on a cooldown where anything in front of it is going to get hit for ridiculously large amounts of damage. Pulsars can literally wipe out IN LCs in a couple of passes, They Are Gross. The other kinds of weapons are torpedoes of various kinds which you point and shoot, acts like a torpedo really, Ordnance Bays which are where you get your strike craft like bombers (attacks hulls irrespective of shields)/assault boats (boarding actions on hit)/fighters (protects against strike craft and torps in a big radius), and Nova Cannons which are AoE damage with scatter from a really, really long way away.
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Apr 28, 2016 14:15
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TwatHammer posted:I wouldn't say that requiring the eldar to be identified when firing pulsars to be an ideal work around. I mean if they did that they would have to say oh i dont know, the same with NC's and the likes. Nova Cannon spam is tedious to fight, but many Nova fleets have relatively weak ways to fight strike craft. Opening NC ships up to getting hit by a gigantic wave of bombers/assault boats is pretty much fine in my eyes, you can see strike craft on the map whenever they're out so why not equalise things. Pulsars need a detection and damage fix, because at the moment fighting good Eldar is pretty much impossible. You won't get into range to detect and lightning strike them, and they do enough damage that after a couple of passes you will have lost ships almost no question. Makes fighting them a renown sink.
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Apr 28, 2016 14:19
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Crazy Ferret posted:The best luck I've had is putting them on the edge of the map, and moving them quickly to the other edge if the enemy is concentrated on one side, and micromanaging their thrusters straight up the board. Full Speed Ahead as much as I can, and don't burn the whole gauge as it will regenerate much slower. I use the rest of my ships as blockers and brawlers, trying to keep the enemy off them as best as possible, with Stasis Bombs, Taunt, and targeting the engines of bigger ships. I've had decent luck with Torpedo spreads against Eldar and putting AP Ammo on my Sword Frigates just chews up Ork ships trying to get close. This worked a treat. I lucked out a bit with them deploying on the other side of the map. Was able to pound them as they came in and hold them pretty well. Thanks
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Apr 28, 2016 14:22
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Raged posted:This worked a treat. I lucked out a bit with them deploying on the other side of the map. Was able to pound them as they came in and hold them pretty well. Thanks
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Apr 28, 2016 14:24
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Raged posted:Uggggh. Whelp looks like I'm screwed then. No CC and no renown to spend. Would not be bad if the AI didn't cheat. Yeah, the key to convoy mission is just ramming and counter ramming. If you are the defender, put your finger on Q and E (the hotkey to special maneuver) and get ready to boost when the Ork (or whatever) starts boosting. Against the AI just turning on all ahead full would cause the Ork to miss their charge. The Ork can literally fail to DPS your transport down if you don't get rammed.
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Apr 28, 2016 14:24
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Crazy Ferret posted:...Full Speed Ahead as much as I can, and don't burn the whole gauge as it will regenerate much slower... drat, thanks for this, would not have thought to try it.
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Apr 28, 2016 14:25
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Remember the Reload order on your transport too to refill the gauge.
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Apr 28, 2016 14:26
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WMain00 posted:Are escort ships worth worrying about and if so which flavour is best? Generally yes, though it varies a little by faction. Escorts bring some of the highest damage for their point cost, though of course they pay for it by being extremely fragile. If they have the opportunity to just fly around and keep shooting while your big ships draw the enemy fire, they can be very effective. For the imperial navy, a good choice would be Firestorms, ideally with the lance range upgrade. That way they can just sit safely out of harm's way and keep on pouring in fire for the entire battle, which is especially useful against Orks and other Imperials. Swords upgraded with armour-piercing ammo make for good wolfpacks suited to hunting down lighter enemy ships, a decent choice against Chaos and Eldar. quote:Should I avoid telling my ships to directly target enemy vessels and instead have them move in a fashion that means there side cannons are always in the right direction, then set fire-at-will? quote:What/why are there ranges? Ranges are mainly there to differentiate between ships and factions. All weapons can only fire out to their stated maximum range, and batteries (i.e. anything with a projectile) will lose accuracy the further out the target is. Orks have the worst accuracy, Imps and Chaos are tied with average accuracy, and Eldar have the best. Lances on the other hand are perfectly accurate and will always hit no matter the distance. The damage per shot for both weapon types does not decrease or fall off over distance. Basically there are five important ranges: 3k - Short range, the maximum range for Ork's Heavy Kannons. Try to stay out of this when going up against Orks. 5k - The default sensor range. This range is indicated by the green circle around your ships and is the distance within you can use some abilities like Lightning Strike or the Micro Warp Jump. 6k - Medium range, the maximum range of most of Imperial and Eldar weapons. As Imperials, you'll want to stay well inside this most of the time. 9k - Long range, this is the range that most Chaos armaments can shoot at. 12k - Extreme range. Some Chaos armaments have this range, as well as some of the higher-tier ships of all races (Battlecruisers and above). This is also the range of bombers and assault boats launched by carriers. Note that the range of both lances and batteries can be increased by one increment (3k->6k->9k->12k->15k) with the appropriate upgrades. As Imperials, you'll want to get in nice and close against Chaos and Eldar, but keep some distance against Orks. Perestroika fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Apr 28, 2016 |
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Apr 28, 2016 14:29
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Isn't 9k the max range for pulsars after upgrades?
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Apr 28, 2016 14:37
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Arglebargle III posted:Isn't 9k the max range for pulsars after upgrades? 12k on the Battleship 
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Apr 28, 2016 14:48
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Personally I prefer the Swords over Firestorms because they are much less finicky. Firestorms have much of their firepower up front, but the front-aiming auto-attack setting leaves ships stationary once they get in range, which is no good at all. Storms on the other hand you can more safely leave to circle at 3k. The other Escort worth spending renown on as IN is the Cobra, simply because you can get free ones with the IN flavour. They have some of the same problem as Firestorms wrt targetting, and their health is for poo poo, but you can circle them at 3k with the AP upgrade and leave their torpedoes auto-firing and you might get lucky even if you don't have the time to manually do much with them.
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Apr 28, 2016 14:52
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Stanley Pain posted:12k on the Battleship Couple that with vauls maneuver and dragon sails and you have a battleship that will top out at 275. Which i think is faster than most escorts/chaos ships. The more you add to the voidstalker the dumber it gets.
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Apr 28, 2016 14:59
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rockopete posted:drat, thanks for this, would not have thought to try it. I really like the game, albeit Campaign only at the moment as Multiplayer seems to have issues as far as I can tell from the thread, but the game does not explain itself well. I had to figure that out as well as other things through a bit of trial and error. After the tutorial wrapped up, I'm basically playing the game as Ironman +1 where I try every failed mission one more time before accepting defeat. It is helping a lot but I find myself learning new stuff almost every mission like... jBrereton posted:Remember the Reload order on your transport too to refill the gauge. So yeah. Good game but tricky at times. Also the Ironman +1 stategy is fun cause it leads to fun times like my second, nailbiting attempt at keeping Horst alive during the Hand of Darkness mission. He has a sliver of health left and finally finishes powering up his Warp drives and I hear the well earned Victory speech begin to play. Moments later, a spread of Chaos torpedoes slams into him, blowing him up and sending his now wrecked ship though the Warp in pieces. Still counted as a Victory though so win.
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Apr 28, 2016 15:02
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Got the camera crash after I was pushing in some imperial git's poo poo it. Super annoying but hopefully this gets patched out soon. Back to Dark Souls I guess.
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Apr 28, 2016 15:41
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Remember if you upgrade the range on non Lance weapons they will be firing at a lower accuracy tier. This is why I don't find it worth it for Orks. Being able to hit stuff further but only at 20% accuracy isn't terribly helpful. Conversely, the AP upgrade is excellent for megakanonz since they're 3k range anyway and have excellent crit chance.
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Apr 28, 2016 16:06
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Perestroika posted:Note that the range of both lances and batteries can be increased by one increment (3k->6k->9k->12k->15k) with the appropriate upgrades. As Imperials, you'll want to get in nice and close against Chaos and Eldar, but keep some distance against Orks. Mukip and I have been running (when the game doesn't instantly crash) a silly double Retribution 2v2 lineup and it happily fucks up things at all ranges. But mostly it has the advantage of being able to fight Chaos at whatever range you want because your sheer durability means you don't care about the piddling shield damage their lances do.
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Apr 28, 2016 16:07
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BULBASAUR posted:Boon enjoys salty gamer tears both online and when he plays his well painted TT eldar army (which is also famously OP) Haha, it's true  Playing some games with Stanley the other day made me kind of realize just how unstoppable Eldar are, especially when paired with a great Ork player. Half the games I was using just twin Aurora and a Hellebore and we were still crushing. I'm not sure decreasing the range of the Pulsars is really necessary, it just feels right hitting someone outside of visual range - especially since you can drop an augur probe on them whenever since they don't have shields, but they should definitely get a dmg reduction.
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Apr 28, 2016 16:12
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I get the problem though, it currently feels like Stealth Pulsars are the only real trick in the Eldar playbook so nerfing them outright could make the entire faction pointless. Basically they're kind of badly designed all round.
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Apr 28, 2016 17:52
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Anyone doing 2v2? Getting teamed with nothing but pubs and its horrid.
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Apr 28, 2016 18:02
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Nickiepoo posted:I get the problem though, it currently feels like Stealth Pulsars are the only real trick in the Eldar playbook so nerfing them outright could make the entire faction pointless. Someone asked earlier in the thread if this is how Eldar played on TT. Basically, yeah, it's what they did. With the macro boost and holofield nerf, that part feels right. Coming into pulsar range, locking on, blasting, then turning around and jumping out of macro range or boosting behind their target was exactly what they did. Though the TT version spammed more bomber squadrons pretty easily, and Eldar torpedos could turn, but Pulsar and then dancing out of range, into a cloud, or into an asteroid field was how Eldar played. I remember picking apart IN fleets on the TT in the exact manner I do now. This is pretty true to the TT honestly, the Pulsars just need to be toned down slightly. Give the Eclipse one less Pulsar and one more Launch Bay, maybe a bit more dakka on the Starcannons and then reduce the strength of the Pulsars by a fifth or something.
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Apr 28, 2016 18:07
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12k pulsars would have been unthinkable in tabletop because of course it makes elves unstoppable. Asteroid fields are boring as they are. They need to block sight like gas clouds to give some benefit to plowing into them. Having asteroid damage scale with leadership+navigator crew score would be cool and good. Also they should count prow armor and speed so Orks and imperials can literally plow through them if they want to eat the damage. Having eldar be best at avoiding asteroid damage and Orks best at soaking it would go a way to developing their whole pirate feel. Would also give Orks a nice situational boost to maneuver options if they were good at cutting through and hiding in asteroids. Right now it's a boring binary don't go in here/buy this upgrade and go in here. Get rid of pulsar range upgrades and I think eldar look a lot better. They're supposed to be tactically inflexible, that's always been the eldar deal. They are terrifying if they get to do their preferred lightning strike style and the opponent's job is to disrupt that tactical style and watch them fall apart because there is no plan b. They should remove the pulsar range upgrade first and replace it with something like a % chance to fire a fourth burst upgrade. If eldar still feel op after a week then rebalance Eldar weapons with a slight nerf to pulsars and a slight buff to everything else. Eclipse should probably get a second launch bay regardless, if eldar bombers are so amazing a BC can't have them then they need a nerf anyway, and then you can give the eclipse a second bay. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Apr 28, 2016 |
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Apr 28, 2016 18:25
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Boon posted:Someone asked earlier in the thread if this is how Eldar played on TT. In TT is there any mechanic to stop you shooting at something that's in range though? Because it's the not being able to return fire (or even see the blips) because of the detection mechanics that can really make fighting against Eldar unfun. The Eldar being a maneuver based faction is good and right, but being stealth dickheads with insta-hit torpedoes at the same time is where I kind of have the problem. I'd actually prefer shorter range Eldar with stronger holofields so that they have to dance into range to do damage but the other player has a chance to actually pin them down, making the game about tactical maneuvering rather than 'get shot by invisible space laser then warp out because gently caress this'. I really don't want to have to resort to NC spam any time I see an Eldar player because that's just as unfun.
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Apr 28, 2016 18:37
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Tl;Dr version: -remove pulsar +range upgrade (mandatory upgrades suck, op mandatory upgrades are broken) -buff other eldar weapons a little -nerf pulsars in a later patch if it's really needed Done, Eldar fixed.
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Apr 28, 2016 18:41
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Nickiepoo posted:In TT is there any mechanic to stop you shooting at something that's in range though? Because it's the not being able to return fire (or even see the blips) because of the detection mechanics that can really make fighting against Eldar unfun. Yeah, the range reduction is probably the necessary fix. On TT all things are visible at all times. Perhaps an additional piece where anything that fires is automatically revealed for a time? This would mean that stealth Eldar can sneak around and do their thing like this should, but the moment they open up the surprise is gone and can be countered.
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Apr 28, 2016 18:45
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I haven't had a chance to play Eldar (or anything but IN really - played bit of IN during beta and have only done campaign in release so far), but is max range pulsar cheese the only real strategy they have? I plan to try them, but I don't think I'd bother if that's the only strategy they really have at their disposal.
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Apr 28, 2016 18:47
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Pretty much yeah. The Shadow just gets mauled too badly having to stick around to keep up it's torrent of fire. The fun for Eldar is in sneaking around and finding ways to surprise and isolate the enemy fleet. It's like playing tag.
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Apr 28, 2016 18:48
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Boon posted:Yeah, the range reduction is probably the necessary fix. On TT all things are visible at all times. Perhaps an additional piece where anything that fires is automatically revealed for a time? This would mean that stealth Eldar can sneak around and do their thing like this should, but the moment they open up the surprise is gone and can be countered. Yup, I had the same notion just up the page. Fire Pulsars/Nova = get seen bitch!
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Apr 28, 2016 18:49
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Not one crash in two weeks of beta and now half my games crash. I would avoid purchasing this until the devs can make it stable again.
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Apr 28, 2016 18:53
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Boon posted:Pretty much yeah. The Shadow just gets mauled too badly having to stick around to keep up it's torrent of fire. That kind of makes me sad. I didn't mess with NC's in beta, but have in my campaign, and I think they're useful without dictating the strategy. In a brawl, they're harder to bring to bear, so they're good for a couple volleys, then the real fun begins and they get backburnered. Maybe you sometimes get a chance to fire at a ship that's late to the party, or circling at 9k firing beams, but you don't spend 3/4 of the match just, you know... prancing around waiting for cooldowns. And poo poo, half the time it misses by a mile anyway, so you know you can't solely rely on them. Pulsars seem to just dominate 100% of the time as long as your maneuvering isn't poo poo. I suppose I wouldn't mind the whole tactical strikes thing otherwise, but it just sounds like the pulsar strategy boils down to: Slag a ship. Pull a 180. Run away, wait for cooldown. Slag a ship. Rinse/repeat. Just talking out my rear end here, because I'm not that familiar with the Eldar ships, but what about tacking a negative onto the pulsar firing? Orks NC's can blow up for instance, so maybe holo fields have to be switched off to fire a pulsar volley? Sure, they're still at 9k or 12k range, but they're totally vulnerable for a 5 or 10 second window afterwards, allowing for a timed counter-attack using MWJ or similar?
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Apr 28, 2016 19:03
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Boon posted:Someone asked earlier in the thread if this is how Eldar played on TT. I don't think Eldar torpedoes could turn in TT, outside of a specific in-campaign refit (which almost all factions have access to) or the rather rare boarding torpedoes of the Craftworld Eldar. IIRC the only faction whose torpedoes can turn by default are the Tau. Anyhow, speaking of the TT rules, there's also a fairly popular revised edition of the TT rules around that, among a whole host of other things, makes the Eldar much less silly. Instead of Move-Shoot-Move they get Move-Move-Shoot, they get somewhat limited turning radii (though still about twice as good as any other faction), and the Holofields are quite a bit less effective, in particular against lances. In return the ships are made a bit less fragile, though even then they still go bloop quicker than any other faction's if you can nail them down. They're still very powerful, but it's no longer "I get to ignore half of the rules and can potentially remain literally untouchable", and as such much less frustrating to go up against. Such a thing could work in Armada as well, make them not quite as insanely fast and uncatchable, but also not quite as much made out of paper. Though that might just be too much work at this point. Even then, nerfing the Pulsar's damage some should be a priority. In TT, a Pulsar caused about ~60% more damage than a regular lance on average. In Armada, each Pulsar instead causes three times the damage per second of a regular lance, and that's without going into the added advantage of having all that damage delivered in an incredibly short timeframe. Right, that's enough  for today.
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Apr 28, 2016 19:04
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