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The stealth really took a hit in MGSV because you can just waste a base so easy.
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Apr 27, 2016 22:10
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Walking Dead is quite cerebral and interesting compared to network TV stuff like Blacklist. Even if this were true, that is damning with the faintest praise possible. The only good television shows are Strike Back and Banshee, because they know exactly what they are and have made peace with that.
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Apr 27, 2016 23:36
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MisterBibs posted:On December 12, 1999, a witch asked people what could change the nature of a man. Can anyone decypher this? Obviously Torment/Diablo II, but why is the fact that the two games exist at all in and of itself a point about (the appreciation of) storytelling in video games? Is Torment somehow discredited because not all games afterwards were philosophically inclined dialogue based RPGs? He only brought up Torment to inexplicably poo poo on other peoples tastes so it can't be a Diablo criticism
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Apr 28, 2016 00:29
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Can anyone decypher this? No. Just roll with it, you'll have more fun that way.
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Apr 28, 2016 01:02
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Can anyone decypher this? Obviously Torment/Diablo II, but why is the fact that the two games exist at all in and of itself a point about (the appreciation of) storytelling in video games? Is Torment somehow discredited because not all games afterwards were philosophically inclined dialogue based RPGs? He only brought up Torment to inexplicably poo poo on other peoples tastes so it can't be a Diablo criticism Speaking of Planescape: Torment, early access for Torment: Tides of Numenera is out on Steam. And here I am, knee deep in Pillars of Eternity. In purely theoretical terms, "lots of text" isn't really any more sophisticated than "lots of cutscenes," but Planescape was good times.
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Apr 28, 2016 02:37
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Can anyone decypher this? Obviously Torment/Diablo II, but why is the fact that the two games exist at all in and of itself a point about (the appreciation of) storytelling in video games? One of them has a story format people liked enough (do mindless stuff in between the story bits), and one has a story format (lul the player into falling asleep) that will cause most people to say "What?" when you name it. Plus, the whole "Never take seriously a source on video game writing that cites Torment as good writing" thing I mentioned earlier. MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Apr 28, 2016 |
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Apr 28, 2016 03:36
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Apr 28, 2016 03:51
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Just because a villain's plan is not 100% solid does not mean the plot is bad. It might be, but there could be perfectly understandable reasons for why the plan is not perfect, like the villain being a human being. That does sound a little better, thanks for elaborating. And point taken on your first sentence, I absolutely agree.
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Apr 28, 2016 09:03
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MisterBibs posted:One of them has a story format people liked enough (do mindless stuff in between the story bits), and one has a story format (lul the player into falling asleep) that will cause most people to say "What?" when you name it. "Do fighty stuff in between story bits" describes both the games though
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Apr 28, 2016 11:21
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Kojima has literally no grasp of pacing, only the shakiest idea of what tone means and no ability to keep a plot moving along without ridiculous contrivances so I also endorse the idea that he should make a film to make a noteworthy contribution to the genre of loving terrible video-game films.
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Apr 28, 2016 11:42
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MrL_JaKiri posted:"Do fighty stuff in between story bits" describes both the games though See, there I'd disagree. Diablo had the appropriate amount of story bits to keep motivating you to slog through fighty stuff. PS:T had reams and reams of lines about knowing/etc, to the point where you'd get a lot more experience through dialogue than fighting. PS:T was a novel press-ganged into a game, and was a snoozefest. Diablo was a story injected into an otherwise-dry game, and was compelling enough to slog through the boring parts to find out what happened next.
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Apr 28, 2016 16:45
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Like most of Blizzard's early stuff, Diablo's story was generic and forgettable but it had the good grace to be unobtrusive. Compare that to D3 or SC2.
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Apr 28, 2016 17:00
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Today I learned that people who found Diablo's game play to be a "slog" apparently kept playing for the brilliant storytelling. 
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Apr 28, 2016 17:54
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Helsing posted:Today I learned that people who found Diablo's game play to be a "slog" apparently kept playing for the brilliant storytelling. Now you're Woke.
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Apr 28, 2016 17:57
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MisterBibs posted:See, there I'd disagree. Diablo had the appropriate amount of story bits to keep motivating you to slog through fighty stuff. PS:T had reams and reams of lines about knowing/etc, to the point where you'd get a lot more experience through dialogue than fighting. PS:T was a novel press-ganged into a game, and was a snoozefest. Diablo was a story injected into an otherwise-dry game, and was compelling enough to slog through the boring parts to find out what happened next. The Planescape being a cult classic / Diablo being a smash hit comparison is really apt because it's decent evidence that your theory is wrong and people generally don't play or like a game purely for its story.
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Apr 28, 2016 18:45
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Story, gameplay, graphics, etc... are bullshit comparisons. People like and enjoy more than one game element at a time.
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Apr 28, 2016 18:49
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Helsing posted:Today I learned that people who found Diablo's game play to be a "slog" apparently kept playing for the brilliant storytelling. Clearly the mark of sophisticated taste and deep insight into the artistic qualities of the medium of his own heady fumes . temple posted:Story, gameplay, graphics, etc... are bullshit comparisons. People like and enjoy more than one game element at a time. Or ideally, together in such a way that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Apr 28, 2016 |
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Apr 28, 2016 19:31
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Tender Bender posted:The Planescape being a cult classic / Diablo being a smash hit comparison is really apt because it's decent evidence that your theory is wrong and people generally don't play or like a game purely for its story. As has been said before, the smash hit has had quite a few story-focused books come out. Fun story, fun enough game to get you to play it to get to the story bits. (And yet folks'll tell you, without giggling, that Torment has better writing. I brought Torment up specifically because it shouldn't be possible to say that about Torment without sniggering.) I never said they purely play it for the story, I just said people like them and that they are a significant part of the appeal for the general audience. That's the core of why a Warcraft movie like this is stupid: the story the audience likes has already been done in the cinematics and in-game conversations. Why reinvent the wheel with a Warcraft (or Diablo, or Starcraft) Movie, when someone has probably already stitched together all the cinematics and put it on YouTube? Helsing posted:Today I learned that people who found Diablo's game play to be a "slog" apparently kept playing for the brilliant storytelling. Do you personally (in real life) know more than, say, five people who have touched the bounty-giving/plot-less (whose name I can't recall) version of Diablo 3 for any significant stretch of time? MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Apr 28, 2016 |
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Apr 28, 2016 21:12
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MisterBibs posted:As has been said before, the smash hit has had quite a few story-focused books come out. Fun story, fun enough game to get you to play it to get to the story bits. People like the story, they don't play it for the story bits. People are STILL playing Diablo 2 to this day. It's not because they're trying to see the story. MisterBibs posted:Do you personally (in real life) know more than, say, five people who have touched the bounty-giving/plot-less (whose name I can't recall) version of Diablo 3 for any significant stretch of time? Yes, that version is universally praised as the point at which it became a good game.
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Apr 28, 2016 23:28
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Vanilla Diablo 3 is so bad you can't even laugh at it.
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Apr 28, 2016 23:31
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it is by far my most regretted video game purchase.
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Apr 28, 2016 23:36
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MisterBibs posted:That's the core of why a Warcraft movie like this is stupid: the story the audience likes has already been done in the cinematics and in-game conversations. Why reinvent the wheel with a Warcraft (or Diablo, or Starcraft) Movie, when someone has probably already stitched together all the cinematics and put it on YouTube? Warcraft 1 had no cinematics.
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Apr 28, 2016 23:43
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MisterBibs posted:Do you personally (in real life) know more than, say, five people who have touched the bounty-giving/plot-less (whose name I can't recall) version of Diablo 3 for any significant stretch of time? Yes it's when any of my friends actually bothered to play it. We all tried out the launch game it bored everyone so much that I was the only one who bothered finishing it, and by borrowing a friend's battlenet account at that. The gameplay was that loving bad. Then when they finally made Diablo 3 into a decent game we all actually bought it and played for most of the season. You do realize that the most played version of Warcraft 3 by far was Dota right? An explicitly plotless multiplayer game. DotA games were significantly more popular than the base game. Hence how it was able to spawn an entire genre. A genre which includes the currently most played, non-mobile, game on earth.
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Apr 28, 2016 23:44
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Terrible Opinions posted:Yes it's when any of my friends actually bothered to play it. We all tried out the launch game it bored everyone so much that I was the only one who bothered finishing it, and by borrowing a friend's battlenet account at that. The gameplay was that loving bad. Then when they finally made Diablo 3 into a decent game we all actually bought it and played for most of the season. Wow still has it beat.
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Apr 28, 2016 23:47
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Tenzarin posted:Wow still has it beat. If you go by active subscriptions or average concurrent players League has WoW beat ever since Warlords came out. Not sure what metric other than those two you could use. Even if you go WoW's total subscriber count (5 million) against League's average concurrent (6 million) LoL still beats WoW.
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Apr 28, 2016 23:53
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Tender Bender posted:Yes, that version is universally praised as the point at which it became a good game. I asked you if you know people (not online, as we've already confirmed, Online People have really odd opinions on games and writing) that actually play the dry, plot-less version of the game consistently or exclusively. Maybe you do and have weird friends who'd think WoW starts at level cap or other strange opinions, but in my personal experience, my battle.net list has never had any of their D3 players in such a mode. Like, they've literally asked me why it exists. Tenzarin posted:Warcraft 1 had no cinematics. The only reason for the movie in question to exist is to compensate for Warcraft 1 (and 2) being so hosed up and weird before Warcraft 3 got popular and became the canon going forward for the series. Terrible Opinions posted:Yes it's when any of my friends actually bothered to play it. We all tried out the launch game it bored everyone so much that I was the only one who bothered finishing it, and by borrowing a friend's battlenet account at that. The gameplay was that loving bad. Then when they finally made Diablo 3 into a decent game we all actually bought it and played for most of the season. Weird. Do your friends also not play a game with a popular storyline for reasons other than the popular storyline? Like, do they raid in WoW? Do they think Starcraft multi-player is a sport?
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Apr 29, 2016 00:29
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Let's not get mixed up arguing with Misterbibs, Dota is bad
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Apr 29, 2016 00:43
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MisterBibs posted:Weird. Do your friends also not play a game with a popular storyline for reasons other than the popular storyline? Like, do they raid in WoW? Do they think Starcraft multi-player is a sport? Like Bibs do you have friends who play video games or even enjoy fiction? Edit: Yes Dota is loving poo poo, but I cannot stop playing it. It hurts me so much.
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Apr 29, 2016 00:43
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Tenzarin posted:Warcraft 1 had no cinematics. WC1 had an intro cinematic. I saw this in a Software ETC. when I was nine and it blew my mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Kc_vZTNoeg This stupid intro is one of the reasons why I still give a poo poo about this dumb franchise. Nostalgia is a poison.
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Apr 29, 2016 01:55
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Terrible Opinions posted:When they played WoW that's what they did. We have sunk untold hours into DotA and Civilization. The first of which has literally no story beyond backstory blurbs for heroes and the latter of which only has emergent stories from gameplay. That'd explain it. Terrible Opinions posted:Like Bibs do you have friends who play video games or even enjoy fiction? More than a few, but they've never had Internet Person opinions on them. They played Diablo (all three of them) until they beat the game, occasionally starting new characters once in a while. Some played WoW (all of them played WC3, but none of them played multi-player and consider the notion of Esports to be funny), but you'd never get them into a raid if you paid them. Same with them and Starcraft. They played a lot of Mass Effect (asking me why people bitched so much about 3's ending), played a lot of Fallout 3 (they'd never touch 1 or 2) and Fallout 4, with only a few of them touching New Vegas and those that did, didn't like it as much as 3. They played a lot of Bioshock and were shocked when I showed them System Shock 2.
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Apr 29, 2016 01:55
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Your friends are stupid morons, to put it politely.
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Apr 29, 2016 02:00
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Why do you talk about "internet people opinions", as if it's one homogenous blob, especially when you are generally the outlier opinion about... well almost everything you post about, whether it be games or movies.
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Apr 29, 2016 02:21
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I love that we're now dismissing the opinions of "online people" about games which are entirely experienced online. It has come full circle; the internet has made us stupid.
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Apr 29, 2016 02:35
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Hodgepodge posted:I love that we're now dismissing the opinions of "online people" about games which are entirely experienced online. "We're"?
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Apr 29, 2016 02:49
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I remember my college roomies playing DoTA all night. That's pretty much all they play. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKsCyfyPL1Y
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Apr 29, 2016 03:07
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OzWIFX8M-Y
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Apr 29, 2016 03:23
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Better than the League of Legends song, surely? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmI_Ndrxy14
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Apr 29, 2016 03:26
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Hodgepodge posted:I love that we're now dismissing the opinions of "online people" about games which are entirely experienced online. What's your point? WoW, for the bulk of its content, is essentially a single-player game. Starcraft 2 might make you connect to the Internet, but only the thing a comparative few do is against another player. You can let people join your single player game in D3, but only if you want to (and why would you). Like I said, the same people that think the story in Blizzard's games are immaterial are the same ones that'll, earnestly, tell you that stuff like PS:T has good writing. Why wouldn't you dismiss that, or at the very least, take it with a grain of salt? Sure, some folks believe it, but you won't find those opinions very common among average folks in 2016. MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Apr 29, 2016 |
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Apr 29, 2016 03:39
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MisterBibs posted:What's your point? WoW, for the bulk of its content, is essentially a single-player game. Starcraft 2 might make you connect to the Internet, but only the thing a comparative few do is against another player. You can let people join your single player game in D3, but only if you want to (and why would you). I feel sorry for anyone who plays Diablo solo. If they are choosing to do so intentionally, then I question their taste/general opinion. Megasabin fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Apr 29, 2016 |
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Apr 29, 2016 05:06
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Stories in games matter but not more than anything else. Story in Warcraft is immaterial but people translate immaterial as turn the game into an incoherent mess. Story and lore in the least should frame the game and once that frame has been established, people bemoan lore as an indirect way to criticize gameplay decisions. I.E. people who hate the factional split in WoW use lore as a reason to get rid of it when the factions were always gameplay features reinforced by lore.
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Apr 29, 2016 05:12
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