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Arivia posted:The problem is that D&D is the most prominent, popular flagship for the entire industry. People don't go "hey I should play more RPGs, let me pick up the new version of Black Tokyo or Beast or HERO or whatever" without knowing a bit about what they're getting into. D&D, they do. The problem is that unless you have actively played a lot of previous editions of at least D&D if not other tabletop RPGs, you will not know it is a regression, and will probably not find the elements that are "actively designed to be bad" (which is subjective as hell anyways) to be unbearable. Honestly 5e is flawed but perfectly playable and many people are capable of having a fun time with it both playing and DMing as evidenced by this thread, so while it's perfectly fair to say "it is a shame there is so little support for 5e" and "it is frustrating they didn't edit it very well so there are confusing bits here or there," it feels unfair to drat the whole system as garbage when the core audience you're referencing will not have preconceived notions and experiences to make them feel that way.
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Apr 29, 2016 22:55
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Generic Octopus posted:The annoying part of this form of multiclassing is it encourages the actually good stuff to be placed toward the middle or end of the leveling process. I'd be nice if they actually put anything worth leveling for in there for the non-casters  I was pondering ways of declaring a class to be a main one, with a special feature or two as a draw that might help differentiate stuff a bit better, like say if all paladins could smite, but ones who designated paladin as their main class could super smite or something. And in the end I mainly figured that it was a stupid waste of time, because even pared-down as it the multiclassing system begs to have bad things done to it and with it. Maybe doing something somewhat similar to the 4e multiclassing feats would work better? Just completely trash the existing system, and give every class a special multiclass slot each level, and a list of all sorts of other classes poo poo that they can take, made up for each class, including their original with a special feature. Have them go down a list of 19 levels for each, so to take "wizard level 6 multiclass" as whatever you are, you have to take the prior 5, and so on. But (and this bit is important), design each list of things individually, so that "wizard level 6" for a fighter, is not the same as for a barbarian or a paladin or especially a wizard. So a level 1 fighter which hits 2, can take 'wizard' as their thing, and get a couple spells. They could also just take 'fighter' and get a special fighters-only thing, like any number of mythical things that come up here, that being dedicated gives you. Maybe being a barbarian who focuses on barbarian stuff gets d20 hit dice, and can ignore certain levels of exhaustion and the like. It'd be a stupidly huge use of your time to make a list of stuff from every class, to every class, and have them be different. But it might be good aside from that maybe? Hell, you could strip out some existing stuff too and lock it behind this, so that a wizard can only learn a couple schools of spells to start, and some of their dedicated level stuff opens more, possibly? (This of course ignores the fact it'd be far better to implement something like this in a different system than 5e)
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Apr 29, 2016 22:56
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Bluedeanie posted:The problem is that unless you have actively played a lot of previous editions of at least D&D if not other tabletop RPGs, you will not know it is a regression, and will probably not find the elements that are "actively designed to be bad" (which is subjective as hell anyways) to be unbearable. Honestly 5e is flawed but perfectly playable and many people are capable of having a fun time with it both playing and DMing as evidenced by this thread, so while it's perfectly fair to say "it is a shame there is so little support for 5e" and "it is frustrating they didn't edit it very well so there are confusing bits here or there," it feels unfair to drat the whole system as garbage when the core audience you're referencing will not have preconceived notions and experiences to make them feel that way. Well I mean, it's not like this thread isn't also full of examples of people giving Next an honest shake, either playing or GMing it, and then reporting back with "actually this is pretty boring and bad, y'all." Being "perfectly playable" isn't really a selling point for a game, it's a fundamental expectation. It's like saying a car is perfectly drivable, I mean I should hope so. Yes, Next isn't the worst most awful RPG ever to be created in the history of tabletop gaming, but it's also not very good and we live in an era of abundant choice as far as fantasy tabletop roleplaying games go.
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Apr 30, 2016 00:36
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5e passes most low bars, that's not really worth celebrating.
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Apr 30, 2016 01:03
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Let's be real here, the only thing anyone put any effort into for 5e was the art, which is admittedly great. I mean gently caress, every PHB I've ever seen is falling apart at the binding. It's a lovely physical product too!
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Apr 30, 2016 01:11
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Mecha Gojira posted:Let's be real here, the only thing anyone put any effort into for 5e was the art, which is admittedly great. Every book can have a lovely run so that isn't on 5e. Wizards will also rebind your book for free if it was from the defective runs.
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Apr 30, 2016 01:18
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Trast posted:Every book can have a lovely run so that isn't on 5e. Wizards will also rebind your book for free if it was from the defective runs. I'm just saying quality control was their least concern. It also doesn't help it was also: A: The first runs for the launch of a new line. B: The first and only book released for months. Also, remember how they kept telling us they were pushing the releases back so that they could further quality control and edit? Oh what fun times.
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Apr 30, 2016 01:21
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Mecha Gojira posted:Let's be real here, the only thing anyone put any effort into for 5e was the art, which is admittedly great. Half the art was stolen from 4e products 
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Apr 30, 2016 01:23
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After I finish running Out of the Abyss, I might think about exploring other table top games. There's just so many options out there! 5e was actaully a really great starting point for my friends and I when a majority of us have never played D&D before but have been gamers our whole lives. I watched the Wil Wheaton youtube show "Titan's Grave" and really thought the combat/stunt system was interesting. Also, I'm a bigger fan of Sci-Fi than fantasy so I'm really interested in that. I love Out of the Abyss because it fulfills my love of torturing my friends with Lovecraftian Horrors and Madness. I'm surprised to see so many people playing /DMing Out of the Abyss, can we just talk about that for a while instead of everything complaining about how much the systems sucks or 4e did this and that? That sounds like a much better time! Not that the complaining about the rule changes and differences between versions hasn't been helpful. I've made a lot of decisions based on mechanics talk in this thread. I've thought about how some classes are lacking compared to others and how to balance those differences myself as the DM because the books are somewhat lacking, and POOLY EDITED HOLY COW. As experienced gamers, I can just discuss balance issues with the players. We all understand that the books are not holy freaking bibles at this point and we could honestly design a better game ourselves, but it's nice having the backbone of the franchise to go off of. I think the Curse of Strahd sounds fun. I have no idea about that whole section of D&D universe, but it sounds very Castlevania and I have a friend who would love to run that! Can anyone confirm that it's at least a fun storyline/encounter set up? Mecha Gojira posted:Let's be real here, the only thing anyone put any effort into for 5e was the art, which is admittedly great. I don't know, every Book my friends and I have use are holding up quite well, and we pass them around a lot of people to look up spells and do level ups or character creations. I'm digging my Rage of Demons DM screen! As for the art... don't overlook this awkard ranger elf and his tiny sword! 
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Apr 30, 2016 01:40
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WHAT IS WRONG WITH HIS EYES!?
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Apr 30, 2016 01:45
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Kurieg posted:WHAT IS WRONG WITH HIS EYES!? This is an ENTIRE page in the PHB. They were real proud of that one.
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Apr 30, 2016 01:48
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5e sucks because it doesn't even have the actually cool poo poo from 3.5 and doesn't introduce any cool poo poo of its own. I'd rather play 3.5 so I can play a ToB or Incarnum character, flawed as they are, than play 5e
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Apr 30, 2016 01:49
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BlueGhostie posted:After I finish running Out of the Abyss, I might think about exploring other table top games. There's just so many options out there! 5e was actaully a really great starting point for my friends and I when a majority of us have never played D&D before but have been gamers our whole lives. Nihilarian posted:5e sucks because it doesn't even have the actually cool poo poo from 3.5 and doesn't introduce any cool poo poo of its own. I'd rather play 3.5 so I can play a ToB or Incarnum character, flawed as they are, than play 5e * and if that was your goal my recommendation would be Risus + The Risus Companion
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Apr 30, 2016 03:08
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I'm pretty solidly on record as someone who hates 3.x, and I would absolutely play it or Pathfinder over 5e, even if it weren't for the fact that 5e was made by some of the shittiest people in this industry.
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Apr 30, 2016 03:10
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And it's also not just being goony goons to tell someone excited about Eberron (which is a setting I too dearly enjoy) that Next isn't really going to deliver a stellar Eberroning experience. Sorry, but that's just straight-up the truth, there are two editions of D&D with vastly better support for running Eberron, plus other non-D&D games that could handle it better. Next doesn't offer you anything you can't get elsewhere and lacks quite a bit in terms of support, mechanically and fluffwise. I am 100% pro Eberron, but you're going to be better served running it in some other system.
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Apr 30, 2016 03:12
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Kurieg posted:WHAT IS WRONG WITH HIS EYES!? That's what elven eyes in the Realms have been like since 3e.
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Apr 30, 2016 03:18
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Eberron is a fantastic setting and everyone should play it. If your only option is to play it in 5e it will probably still be worth it as long as the DM know's what's up
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Apr 30, 2016 03:35
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There's a really cartoony picture of some mondrons in the 5e phb that always makes me chuckle. It's so out of place compared to all the other art. There's actual good mondron art in the dmg for one of the chapter headings. Obviously there's hot mondron action in the mm, too. In summary, mondrons own. Good day. *checks pocket watch then tips top hat with gears and ribbon hot glued on while clutching a cane made from copper pipe and a gear shift knob*
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Apr 30, 2016 03:39
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Kurieg posted:WHAT IS WRONG WITH HIS EYES!? It's just a really cool way of enriching the lore of Dungeons and Dragons, dedicated fans now know elves have chromosome 21
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Apr 30, 2016 06:04
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Moinkmaster posted:I'd be nice if they actually put anything worth leveling for in there for the non-casters Pathfinder introduced an alternate system called Variant Multiclassing where you essentially sacrificed half your feats for some class abilities from another class while keeping your own class abilities so it augmented them instead of replacing them. An interesting start of an idea even if results really varied.
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Apr 30, 2016 06:28
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My brain originally interpreted that picture as being of a giant owl about to land on those houses in the background, and an elf doing something unrelated in the foreground. Like, it's obvious that's not what's happening, but the first time I skimmed past it that's what I saw and now I have to think about it to not see that.
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Apr 30, 2016 07:32
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Kurieg posted:Half the art was stolen from 4e products Oh, well, then gently caress 'em.
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Apr 30, 2016 07:40
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Arivia posted:That's what elven eyes in the Realms have been like since 3e. DnD used to use pretty great artists, ranging from pencil-cartoon/sketch level up to "professional portrait painter level" ... plus my favorite PS art DiTerlizzi. The current stuff looks Not great.
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Apr 30, 2016 08:31
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Yeah, 3e had the weird alien elven eyes and kinda hosed up faces (just take a look at Mialee, the iconic elf wizard for 3e). It flitted away during 4e, and then came back for 5e because loving of course it did. EDIT: It's not really a Realms thing, since Mialee was technically part of the generic 3e setting which technically was Greyhawk, it's far more of an edition thing.
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Apr 30, 2016 11:16
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LightWarden posted:Pathfinder introduced an alternate system called Variant Multiclassing where you essentially sacrificed half your feats for some class abilities from another class while keeping your own class abilities so it augmented them instead of replacing them. An interesting start of an idea even if results really varied. I'll check that and see, thanks! I'm leery of it costing half your feats or whatever sight unseen, but I'll see how well it does.
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Apr 30, 2016 15:45
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Kurieg posted:WHAT IS WRONG WITH HIS EYES!? 
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Apr 30, 2016 16:17
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Bonus points to anyone who can guess the supposed race of this person. Tiefling
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Apr 30, 2016 16:36
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I like her one itty bitty arm.
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Apr 30, 2016 16:37
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Is she coming up the stairs or coming down?
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Apr 30, 2016 16:52
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I love the use of perspective.
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Apr 30, 2016 16:58
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She's walking down a Willie Wonka hallway on a floor shaped like /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
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Apr 30, 2016 17:30
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We definitely need a bad fantasy art thread.
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Apr 30, 2016 17:35
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:We definitely need a bad fantasy art thread. I too would welcome the triumphant return of WTF D&D to SomethingAwful.
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Apr 30, 2016 18:14
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Sage Genesis posted:Bonus points to anyone who can guess the supposed race of this person. I know it's a Tiefling I've got the book that's from. Tunicate posted:I love the use of perspective. I'm pretty sure her cleavage line is implying her chest is also doing something non euclidean.
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Apr 30, 2016 19:34
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She's on some demiplane where gravity is all hosed up. Mystery solved. That still doesn't explain what that little bear-cat-rat-dog thing is, of course, or why she's polymorphing into the Ultimate Warrior.
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Apr 30, 2016 19:58
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Scyther posted:Is she coming up the stairs or coming down? Yes.
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Apr 30, 2016 20:02
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That's a helluva pose.
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Apr 30, 2016 20:21
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Where... where's her elbow??
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Apr 30, 2016 20:22
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Thats from an actual book?
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Apr 30, 2016 20:23
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Races of Destiny, had a pile of half-human sub-races as options.
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Apr 30, 2016 20:25
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